[Huntzman]

Hi everyone. I am looking to purchase a HK Clone and have narrowed down my choices to either the Vulcan V94 (MP5 Clone) or the Vector V53 (53 Clone). Right now I am seriously leaning towards the V53.

What I'd like is some members who might have these (or any others) that would like to comment on them. I have always believed that real world opinions beat the hell out of company advertising claims.

Any help is greatly appreciated.

[NMshooter]

In my experience .223 is much more pleasant to shoot out of at least a 14.5" barrel, and a 16" barrel with a flash hider is still plenty manuverable.

Hope that helps.

:)

[Slimjim]

Hi everyone. I am looking to purchase a HK Clone and have narrowed down my choices to either the Vulcan V94 (MP5 Clone) or the Vector V53 (53 Clone). Right now I am seriously leaning towards the V53.

What I'd like is some members who might have these (or any others) that would like to comment on them. I have always believed that real world opinions beat the hell out of company advertising claims.

Any help is greatly appreciated.


Run fast from anything that says Vulcan on it. Your best mp5 clone, is going to be a bobcat weapons Mp5 clone.

[Huntzman]

Yeah, I like the idea of having the rifle in a nato round. Besides, while I truly like the MP5, I like the stopping power of the .223 a lot more.

In regards to the Bobcat, I have heard 50/50 stories about the quality.

[Slimjim]

Yeah, I like the idea of having the rifle in a nato round. Besides, while I truly like the MP5, I like the stopping power of the .223 a lot more.

In regards to the Bobcat, I have heard 50/50 stories about the quality.

Your gonna hear worse about vulcan..aka hesse.

[Kurush]

Both Bobcat/"Special Weapons" and Hesse/Vulcan are crap. Also any MP5 clone is going to have a serious case of anteater unless you get it SBRed.

[Slimjim]

Both Bobcat/"Special Weapons" and Hesse/Vulcan are crap. Also any MP5 clone is going to have a serious case of anteater unless you get it SBRed.

Well, seems you know everything there is to know about them :rolleyes:

Anyway, check the ARFCOM HK forum, they seem to perfer the bobcat weapons over anyone, except maybe ohio rapid fire.

[Chris Rhines]

No firsthand experience with either Bobcat or Vulcan HK94 clones, but I did have a Vector V53 come through the shop not too long ago. To be brief, it was the most unfriendly rifle I've ever fired. The ergonomics were irredeemably horrible, the controls were poorly positioned, the rear sight was a half-assed kludge, and the trigger broke at somewhere north of 12 pounds (my scale topped out.)

Build quality was very high, but not a well-designed rifle at all.

- Chris

[iamkris]

it was the most unfriendly rifle I've ever fired. The ergonomics were irredeemably horrible, the controls were poorly positioned, the rear sight was a half-assed kludge, and the trigger broke at somewhere north of 12 pounds

Ahh, yes, welcome to the wonderful world of HK rifle design. The most overhyped brand (for rifles) in the firearms world...


Flame suit on!:neener:

[Commissar Gribb]

while I truly like the MP5, I like the stopping power of the .223 a lot more.

MP5 = subgun in pistol calibers yes? .45 and 9mm?

[Huntzman]

Somehow I was afraid that this might happen :rolleyes:

I wish that the HK cost was not so prohibitive, I'd just purchase an original. But that would greatly impact my ability to shoot if I couldn't afford the ammo !!;)

I'm really skittish about the MP5 clones, especially with the "love-fest" that seems to be going on between the makers / customers. That is something I have not been accustomed to. I saw that there was new a MP5/40 cal. version then researched the company and found that it was SW operating under a different name. That really concerns me.

At this point I am leaning towards the Vector. I really do appreciate all the help / comments.

[boofus]

The Vulcan is not a clone of the HK94. It just looks like one on the outside. The internals are completely different. The real HKs use a roller locked bolt, the Vulcan is a straight blowback bolt.

There are some Kalifornia Dept of Justice HK94s that recently got dumped into the market. Last price I saw was $2400 for one of those.

[Chipperman]

I am very happy with my V53.

[Huntzman]

Thanks to everyone for the posts. Yes, I understood the mechanical differences. My clone reference was aimed more at the external, but thanks for pointing the internal aspect out.

I also appreciate the info about the KDOJ (I still get a kick out of the "Kalifornia" references) models. Still $2400 is a little high for my tastes, thats why I was learning towards the clones.

Being a retired LEO, I'm more interested in long guns now then sidearms. Thats one of the reasons I was looking to expand upwards and away from the handgun cartridges.

On a side note, being a newbie to this group I really appreciate the responses and the willingness to share information.

[Dave Markowitz]

Vulcan = Hesse = Crap.

Vector, OTH, has a reputation for very good quality. If I had the bucks and one of Vector Arms' products scratched an itch, I would't hesitate to buy.

[yellowcarbon]

Be patient, Vector is coming out with a MP-5 clone in .40S&W and 10mm. They may or may not get one in 9mm. I am not sure if they are building them or merely resaling them. But either way there service & warranty is great. So they will back up what they sell, even to the point of paying return shipping to them.

They also just came out with a compact HK-51 clone in .308. Which I believe they do build. Check vectorarms.com for details.

[hartzpad]

Be patient, Vector is coming out with a MP-5 clone in .40S&W and 10mm. They may or may not get one in 9mm. I am not sure if they are building them or merely resaling them. But either way there service & warranty is great. So they will back up what they sell, even to the point of paying return shipping to them.

They also just came out with a compact HK-51 clone in .308. Which I believe they do build. Check vectorarms.com for details.

I second waiting for Vector, they should be out by next year they say. While Vector may or may not build and sell an MP5 in 9mm, they did have one at Knob Creek, someone on another forum posted pictures of a Vector 9mm MP5 along with a .40 and some .308s.

[The Grand Inquisitor]

Vector has a history of making very good firearms and backing up their products with good service. I'm planning on buying one of their RPD's in the future (after I make a few other rifles).


Vulcan Arms has a long history of making absolute garbage and NOT backing up their products with good service. Do yourself a favor and avoid anything marked Hesse or Vulcan (Hesse changed it's name to Vulcan about a year or two ago because of how many people where compalaning about the quality of Hesse firearms).

[Huntzman]

Once again, I certainly appreciate all the information being offered up. I had seen the Vector MP5/40 listed on the companies home page and I think doing a 9mm version is something that will interest a lot of people. Apparently there are many unhappy shooters that have purchased inferior ones.

It's pretty much a lock for the V53. It's gonna make an awesome Christmas present !! Maybe next Christmas the MP5 clone will find it's way to my humble abode. I have always had a soft spot in my heart for them, ever since the first time I fired one in Germany.

But I am also a realist, and even though I have a friend who is a GS, I still like to know that the company stands by it's products.

Many thanks to all who have taken the time to post here.

[Gordon]

Of all the guns I've sold and regretted the HK94 16"and UZI A model are two I've never regretted dumping (for $1500 for the HK back then and $1000 for the UZI in 1993!). Too much weight and size for too little power:barf: I've had fun shooting the buzz gun versions though, in AZ. (free America) and could see that as a justifacation for their existance.

[Huntzman]

That's my primary reason for opting for the .223 version. I have fired just about every configuration of the MP5, and to me it's just a fun shooter. But I have never been a fan of the .9mm for anything more than practice and plinking. IMHO it's fine as an inner-city sidearm caliber, but given the choice I would prefer bringing something a little heavier into the fracas. So the 53 gives me the look, with the increased caliber. Seems to me to be a win/win.

[Gordon]

Well my HK 93a2 IS my favorite .223!:cool:

[Huntzman]

Yeah, I wouldn't mind an H&K myself, but that extra 1k or so buys a lot of ammo and or extras. Besides, my wife has her little heart set on an AK, so I have to keep that ticket price in mind as well.

Married to a blonde who loves guns.......... does life get any better !!!!!:evil:

[Huntzman]

I was aiming for Christmas, but it finally made it's way to my doorstep !!!

[lurkersince03]

Good looking weapon there, Huntzman. Is that a pistol? Or an SBR with no stock attached yet?

Not to take away from the topic or from the original poster, but I've been thinking about the validity of a BW-5 (MP5 clone) SBR for home defense complete with the fore end with the incorporated light for night purposes. But then there's the whole debate about a proper caliber for home defense that is too broad and controversial to get into. I think a +P+ 9mm JHP is just fine, while a .223/5.56NATO round would simply give way to over penetration -- even if your shots are sure enough to be placed in the center of mass of another human, they can still carry enough inertia to go through another few layers of drywall to hit an innocent in the face or something. But uhhh... maybe I'm just over thinking it. If I had a choice between an AR and a HK91 or some other semi auto MP5 clone, I'd probably choose the 9mm MP5 variant. Bigger caliber, heavier bullet, and with options for +P+ and JHP for more devastating expansion. What do you think?

[Huntzman]

Lurker

It's the V53 Pistol (unfortunately can't SBR here in Illinois).

Originally I was inclined towards the MP5 myself. But I opted for the 53 because it gave me the same configuration, with the more potent round. I'm a member of a number of boards, so it's sometimes hard for me to remember where posts occured but I recall this being brought up and how .223 frangible rounds give power without the over penetration worry.

There was also the consideration of shtf / ammo supply. Pretty much .223 is plentiful anywhere you go. You can also get the same fore-end with light attachment for the 53. I'm still iffy on those for "home" defense. Personally, I know my home and where everyone is supposed to be. I figure in my home darkness is my friend.

Now, the question is try finding a MP5 9mm clone.......... They are drying up PDQ. Not sure if BW is producing anymore, and Vector supposedly only got 200 receivers, and thats it.

[jason10mm]

Lurker, you have it backwards. While it "makes sense" that the 5.56 would penetrate more walls than the 9mm, FBI testing shows just the oppposite. The reason is that 5.56 will tumble and fragment after hitting drywall, drastically reducing it effectiveness. 9mm OTOH will stay intact and can penetrate more walls. That is one of the primary reasons why entry teams are going back to the 5.56 for CQB work. They get more stopping power with the rifle round and less overpenetration than with a pistol caliber. Of course thay comes at a price. The muzzle blast is much greater with a rifle caliber, especially with a SBR, but those guys can run suppressors if desired.

Personally I would use which ever you had. Pick a good self defense bullet and train with the rifle. Put your shots in the bad guy and overpenetration isn't an issue.

[lurkersince03]

Hmm. You have a good point there. The problem for me occurs with the inevitability of a miss in a situation where there could be a fire fight. A 9mm JHP is more likely to be wedged in household framework than a .223/5.56 JHP. And if we're getting into military ball, the ballistics effect is compounded.

I'm not worried so much about over penetration of a bad guy; that was simple a somewhat exaggerated but entirely possible scenario. What I'm worried about is the possibility of being seen from an armed intruder and fired upon, giving cause for me to lay down wild return fire all without hitting the intended target -- entirely possible. No one knows what will happen when there's an armed intruder in your home because then it simply becomes the potential for a fire fight, and fire fights are a whole can of spam that can't be predicted in anyway. I mean whistfully speaking, in terms of stopping power, I'd love to have a USC/UMP .45 SBR or maybe a .50 Beowulf upper for home defense, but then again I may as well use the Tromix converted Saiga 12 shotty with an 8-round +1 capacity with 4 buck. I give my props to .223/5.56 NATO but I dunno... I'm playing with the idea, and as I mentioned, it all goes down to that age old debate about the suitable weapon/caliber for the individual with the immediate home defense needs.

Yeah seriously. If I can even find a BW-5 these days. There's one in the shop but I don't think it's going to be there too long. Though with a price tag of $1,495 maybe it will....

[salty]

+1 for Vector - worth the wait.

[Huntzman]

I don't think your going to see any lower prices any time soon. We were just having a discussion about this at the shop the other day. Gun prices are up across the board because of the increases in metaal prices.

That price tag doesn't seem to out of line. I think thats about the going price for a Vector, but those might not even be around now. They got 200 reeceivers, but those are apparently being spread out over three different versions.

[Hk91 Fan]

My experience with the Vector 53 copy has been positive.

Fit and finish was very good. Welds were good, and not gross like on other copies such as the SW. Mags fit tight. I like the paddle-mag better than the push on my JLD 91. My lower has the thumb/fingergroove and not the straight pistol grip. Well put together. I hear people talk about SW, as I have done above. Yet, I think that their parts are just fine, if put together by a reputable company. I like these rifles alot and would get another.