[LeonCarr]

I was doing household stuff today, and got to thinking. It has been mentioned many times on THR in various threads about having a well-rounded arsenal consisting of rifles, shotguns, and handguns for defense, and most of us know the obvious advantages of having the rifle available. I have several friends that own only handguns, are very proficient with them, and don't own a rifle or shotgun because they don't hunt or have interest in them.

Does anybody who owns only a handgun or handguns feel like they are vulnerable without a rifle or shotgun?

Any thoughts would be appreciated.

Just my .02,
LeonCarr

[Rob1035]

All I have in my small apartment is my G26. I do not feel vulnerable just having that, as I feel that the g26 should take care of me in a majority of scenarios in these parts. However, I am shopping for a long arm just for those 'other' scenarios when the 26 is not enough...

[Shazam]

I started out with handguns only. Then I got into rifles (Ak47 and 74) and wonder why anyone would stop at a handgun. Handguns even bore me comapred to my ak's. I have a mossberg 590 but rarely shoot it. I think handguns and rifles are more practical. If you dont have a rifle then yea a shotgun would be a good long gun.

[The Tourist]

Like any endeavor, it's the man, not the metal. Consider this, the most decorated soldier of WWII was too short and too young to be a soldier at all.

The most dangerous man I know is 63 years of age and seldom carries even a gentleman's pocket knife.

[Vern Humphrey]

Shotguns are so useful for so many things that there is no reason not to have one.

[berettashotgun]

Shotguns are more like toys to me than rifles/pistols/revolvers. I really like to "play" with them so much more.:neener: But, I do feel totally at ease with a pen knife; let alone a pistol or revolver ( but a revolver is so much more comforting than most pistols). Never leave home without your spyderco.

[Standing Wolf]

My only rifle is a .22 long rifle plinker I take to the range every couple years. I'm sufficiently proficient with hand guns that I don't feel at all under-gunned.

[DT Guy]

I've only recently gotten half-way serious about longarms. (Turns out ARs are as addictive as 1911s....god am I in trouble.)

And while I never felt particularly 'vulnerable' with only handguns in the house, I have to admit that the photos coming out of New Orleans made me glad I had something with a bit more range.


Larry

[Croyance]

Vulnerable? No. I do think a shotgun will do a better job though.

[Fun2Shoot]

I have always had confidence in my handguns for HD, but I have been considering the addition of a "coach gun" to my bedroom closet. A short double barrel shotgun like the Stoeger coach gun in 12 gauge would be just the right tool for some situations. Like the mad rush of a gang of home invaders.

[CAnnoneer]

Does anybody who owns only a handgun or handguns feel like they are vulnerable without a rifle or shotgun?


I don't feel underarmed. Rifles have a crushing advantage only at ranges that are unrealistically large for modern urban/suburban environments. Only in very few cases short of outright SHTF do they make more sense than a handgun.

[Cosmoline]

Rifles and shotguns, properly loaded, are ballistically orders of magnitude more potent than any ordinary handgun. A lot of people who are only used to handguns and who do not hunt, including many LEO's, simply do not understand what a long gun can do. The wounds from a SP rifle round at close range are unlike anything from a standard handgun, and will settle an argument *very* quickly. I've seen what a rifle round can do to an animal seven times the size of man. Handguns are backup weapons ONLY. For use with CCW and for keeping handy. If you have time, it's always a good idea to get something with more punch. Here's what I've settled on:

http://www.thehighroad.org/attachment.php?attachmentid=30528&d=1130639396

[GILROY]

If it's just to have that "less vulnerable" feeling, For around $500 you can pick up an Romanian AK-47, a few 30 round mags, 1000 rounds of Wolf ammo and a trip to the range. Your vulnerable feeling should go away. If not get a good, bad dog to complete the package.

[GILROY]

I would also comment that in times of civil unrest, which for various reasons America is more likely to experience more often, the visual of a man in front of his family and property with an intimidating very high capacity weapon such as an AK or AR is enough to make a crowd stand back. My advise is get one now while you can. This countries laws and values can and are changing rapidly.

[22-rimfire]

Gilroy, good points. I have a Mini-14 which occupies the niche of AK's or AR's. I'm just not particularing "into" those kinds of rifles.

IF a gun owner feels vulnerable when they own a gun or two already, I think they need to practice more. But, you can always pick up a cheap 870 12 gauge shotgun. They have a way of making you feel a little more secure.

[Dienekes]

The only advantage a handgun has is that you can wear it all day long and fall into the creek, and still have it with you 24/7. As a weapon it is a frail reed in almost any caliber and load, and far inferior to almost any long gun.

The long gun is several orders of magnitude more powerful and easier to hit at distance with.

Although I am not particularly a shotgun person the Model 870 is just basic to even a minimal "tool kit". My serious social rifles are the humble SKS and from there the M1A.

A further consideration: a homeowner or store owner monitoring his turf holding a .30-30 lever gun or Model 870 makes quite a deterrent showing without any further effort. Applied psychology, if you will.

[gunfan]

Ahhhhhhhh... Not really! If i must shoot someone over 15 times with my Glock Model 20, he/she'll be "hurting for certain!" :uhoh:

Scott

[Mastrogiacomo]

As long as I have ammo for the handgun, I'm golden. :)

[BluesBear]

Vulnerable? Well I would exactly use that term. More like only semi-prepared.

For example I carry a Leatherman tool everywhere. I carry it not because it's the best for everything and certainly not because I think I'll be needing to work on something every time I leave home, but because it's good for those on the spot jobs that might arise when I'm out and about.
However I rarely use it around home because I can usually grab another tool that's more specifically designed for the task at hand.

I feel the same about firearms. One is better than none but some are better for certain tasks than others.
I carry a handgun because I really don't think I'll be needing to defend my life. But just in case I do I want something close at hand.

Now if I knew for certain the balloon was going up I'd rather be more substantiality armed.

[GlenJ]

In the past I have heard gun shots in my neighborhood and retrieved my 357 revo. I wouldn't say the feeling was vulnerability but more of a feeling of wishing I had "more gun" even though I have a solid home defense plan. That being said after seeing the Katrina footage IMO anyone serious about home/family/self defense shopuld have at least one long gun weather it's a rifle or shotgun.

[MachIVshooter]

In almost any concievable defensive scenario, a handgun or shotgun will do your bidding just fine. However, the motto "Hope for the best, but prepare for the worst " is one I live by. I have a handgun on me or nearby at all times. It is a means to fight your way to a more suitable weapon in a worst-case scenario. At work I can keep tabs on my vehicle at all times, so I keep my G-3 in the trunk "just in case". At home, my AR-10A2 carbine with 1x red dot sight sits in the corner (a more practical choice for CQB than the long, heavy and scoped G-3). As others said, nothing can replace a rifle if you need real firepower. Call me paranoid, but the possibility of a "Red Dawn"-type event seems ever more possible with each passing day. I won't be caught napping.

[gringolet]

if I am in the field with combatnants well armed, damn right a handgun is not enough...BUT, on my day-to-day...with practice..a handgun is plenty...but overall I would not prefer to pack a mini-14 over my shoulder as opposed to a 66 in my jacket...

[egnash]

I've been carrying concealed and un-concealed for almost 40 years. Yeah, I'm an Official Old Fart. :)

I've never been in a gunfight outside a war zone and don't plan on being in one.

That said, I feel comfortable with my choices of concealed/concealable handguns. Notice I said choices, the right gun for the right situation.

If, and that's a big IF, I were headed to a gunfight, I'd bring the best battle rifle I have. And I have choices there, too. And you don't need to know. :neener:

[Boss Spearman]

I have two rifles, but I only get to shoot them 3 or 4 times a year because the nearest good range for rifle shooting is about 50 miles south of Indy.

[Sean85746]

Hmmmmmmmmmmm...

I do own several rifles and shotguns, but they aren't really considered "defensive weapons" to my way of thinking. Obviously they really ARE defensive weapons, but only if one is carrying one!

Yes, I have an AR-15 and a CAR, as well as a Benelli Super-90...but, living in the city of Tempe...it is easier to pack a Glock or a 1911.

Now for my actual point...a handgun with which you are proficient is always a good thing!

[stealthmode]

no matter what you have if you cant get to them in time you are vulnerable.

[Ala Dan]

Heck, I feel totally comfortable with an impact weapon; and
certainly with a handgun/shotgun/rifle~!:D

[Squidward]

I always have a pistol and several mags And I feel real comfortable with the pistol out to 25 yards. Past that it's got to be a rifle.

Shotguns and rifles are great, but you won't generally see them as a daily carry/CCW tool.

[Dr.Rob]

When you really feel like you NEED a weapon you might be suprised at what you feel is 'adequate'.

Truthfully the shotgun remains the most versatile of home defense tools. Handguns are just more... 'portable.'

I have never felt undergunned with a 12 ga. shotgun.

I have felt undergunned thinking someone was trying to break into my house and being armed only with a .380.

[buddyRoland]

I feel safe with my handguns.

[Doug b]

I have never felt undergunned with a .357 mag.A 6 in. python in the car, 66 S&W on the hip.Chances are any confrontation most people are going to have that requires a deadly force response will be so fast and violent 1 or 2 shots with a snubby might be all you get.

[SUPERMAN .45]

I carry 2 1911 hi-cap pistols on me, I have an AR-15 in my house I feel safe with that weapons.:) :cool:

[CajunBass]

Feel vulnerable with only handguns?


Not really.

[Cosmoline]

I have never felt undergunned with a .357 mag.A 6 in. python in the car, 66 S&W on the hip.Chances are any confrontation most people are going to have that requires a deadly force response will be so fast and violent 1 or 2 shots with a snubby might be all you get.

Unless you have to go against someone with a long gun. You'll never win that fight. Remember that CCW holder in Texas who had only a handgun? He got some hits in but still lost the gunfight.. IIRC he had a visual of the shooter from his apartment. If he'd had a proper rifle he could have easily ended the matter from concealment and cover.

[CAS700850]

After watching the civil unrest on the nightly news after the various hurricans, I would describe the feeling as uncomfortable. I know I can take care of me and mine with my handguns, but I could do so better with my handguns and a long gun. Which is why I'm shopping for the right long gun.

[Brian Williams]

NO.
I prefer a handgun and would pick up my 1894c only if needed. I have win 1300 setup as a HD gun but would pick my S&W 13 or 65 first, then my 1894c next.

Not worried about penetration except the windows, I live in a 1898 home and it is solid 3 layers of brick and an inch of plaster.

[civilian]

i have several long guns, but shtf, doubt i'd feel vulnerable with only my handguns to rely on. in fact, with the exception of the shottie, i doubt i'd reach for any of my ar's or ak's before i would my glocks/hk/1911's. overpenetration in urban setting would be a massive headache.

[orangeninja]

Personally I think a handgun should be used to fight your way back to a long gun....Who said that first? Jeff Cooper? Clint Smith? Ayoob the Boob? One of those guys.:D

[solareclipse]

sadly most of us do not have rifle ranges anywhere near and even then, most are very limited in distance (scoping is useless).

it is hard to justify having something sit in your closet for a year never being fired...

[Jamie C.]

I only feel slightly more vulnerable without a handgun than I do with one.... And this is only 'cause I'm not as young as I used to be....

It ain't the weapon, son, it's the attitude, and the willingness to do serious bodily harm....


J.C.

[Nematocyst]

With all due respect to LeonCarr, who posted the question (good question, Leon), and to all who have posted responses, I think the question needs to be clarified a bit.

If "feel vulnerable" refers to life in my secure studio, then my answer is, only slightly. I've got the K9 nearby loaded with 125 gr Golden Sabers. 7 well-placed rnds should stop most unlawful entry, even the crackhead on an overdose of meth. (Yes, I live in a state that reigns as one of the meth capitols of the US.)

If "feel vulnerable" refers to SHTF followed by TEOTWAWKI (on the way, IMO), then yeah, you bet your sweet ... I would feel vulnerable with only a handgun. I would feel vulnerable even with 5 handguns.

In that TEOTW scenario, where I may have to: 1) fend off marauding looters, near madness from hunger & the fact that their reality has dissolved into madness; 2) procure my own food (including both small & large four-legged critters), then I'd prefer to have more than just handguns.

My current collection goal (as soon as the LA court system sees fit to approve distribution of funds from my late aunt's estate, which is only 4 months overdue) is represented in the attached image:

Kahr K9 9 mm (got it)
Rem 870P 12 ga (note my user name) with 18" & 26" barrels
SW 686 .357
CZ 452 .22 LR (will be scoped)
Remington 700 XCR .30-06 (will be scoped)

To each their own.
Good luck in what's likely to come.

Nem

http://www.thehighroad.org/attachment.php?attachmentid=30418&d=1130398614

[BluesBear]

it is hard to justify having something sit in your closet for a year never being fired...Do you have a fire extinguisher?




No offense meant, and please don't take this personally since it applies to many people...

Just get up off your assets, turn off the computer and drive to someplace where you can shoot whatever you want.
Hell's Bells™ I still go shooting once a week. I'm easy to spot because I'm the only guy at the range using a walker.

Once a month we go out to the pit. We have to drive 45 minutes just to get to the logging road and then endure another 15 minutes of four wheel drive jolting about.
And of course there's the same drive back.

But I feel it's worth the effort. YMMV

[deputy tom]

Personally I think a handgun should be used to fight your way back to a long gun....Who said that first? Jeff Cooper? Clint Smith? Ayoob the Boob? One of those guys.:D

Clint Smith said it.tom.:cool:

[mmike87]

If you have only handguns and are proficient with them then you are already at an advantage to most people, thugs included.

I wouldn't worry about it ... but you are missing out by not having any long guns. I had 10 handguns and just recently got my first AR-15. I can't believe I waited that long. Now I am getting an AK for Christmas.

[Medusa]

FN Fiveseven Tactical, 20 in clip +1 chambered +20 in spare mag, totalling 41 rounds of armor piercing ammo. I think it will do the job as long as the commies/zombies don't rally all over the place. :rolleyes:

In serious cases, I do have the G36K carbine nearby.

[Rezin]

With "only" a handgun?

well, I feel much better than I did whan my primary weapons were things like poity candleholders, lol............

Had I started with a lot of guns, and ended up with one or two, maybe. But since I started with none, I am better off than before, so nope. I feel LESS vunerable ;)

[DirksterG30]

For run of the mill CCW/home defense, I am perfectly comfortable with pistols. I am looking into a shotgun and AK-47 or AR-15 for a real New Orleans type situation.

[Gunnutz13]

Never...if you look like prey, you will be preyed upon.

Having said that...
my M4 AR15 and M1 Garand for reaching out...100 yards +
then...
my pump shotgun with slugs under 75 yards
then...
my handguns...for up close and personal

Right tool for the right job...:evil:

[Tokugawa]

After watching a very upset momma griz with two cubs running up and down a river bank looking for a way to get AWAY! from me, I felt less , much less, safe with an 870 with Brennke slugs. As a matter of fact, I wouldn't have felt overgunned with a .458 mag. It's really quite amazing what a good dose of adrenilin will do.

[MachIVshooter]

After watching a very upset momma griz with two cubs running up and down a river bank looking for a way to get AWAY! from me, I felt less , much less, safe with an 870 with Brennke slugs. As a matter of fact, I wouldn't have felt overgunned with a .458 mag. It's really quite amazing what a good dose of adrenilin will do.

Those would have to be considered one of the better bear defense rounds available. If I were in grizz country, an 870 Marine or 1187 Police loaded with Brenneke's would be one of my top choices. Much faster and more controllable than a .458 WM, .416 RM, .416 Rigby, etc. The other contender would be a Marlin levergun in .45-70.

[1911 guy]

For everyday life walking around, I feel good knowing that my 1911 is there should I need it. If, however, we're talking about the mutant ninja zombie bears attacking en masse, I want a rifle. Pistols are great for what they are, close range last line of defence. If there is a foreseen threat, shame on you for not bringing the right gun to the gunfight. I know lots of folks have been planted by small caliber handguns, but when it counts remember that even the old 30-30 packs a much bigger whallop than even a .44 mag.

[Nematocyst]

Those would have to be considered one of the better bear defense rounds available. If I were in grizz country, an 870 Marine or 1187 Police loaded with Brenneke's would be one of my top choices. Much faster and more controllable than a .458 WM, .416 RM, .416 Rigby, etc. The other contender would be a Marlin levergun in .45-70. Rock climbers on Baffin Island (http://www.conradanker.com/baffin.htm), inside the Arctic circle, know that the polar bear is as great a threat to their survival as the big granite walls there.

(Some of the biggest climbing walls on Earth are found on Baffin. There are about 250 granite walls the size of El Capitan, Yosemite's biggest, on Baffin. If you get into trouble in the outback on Baffin in winter, consider yourself dead because no rescue squad will come for you, unlike in Yosemite, where they come after you and charge the taxpayers for the service call.)

But back to those polar bears. Guess the recommended gun for polar bears on Baffin. No, not a handgun. Not even a rifle of any caliber. The gun recommended by those who know is a 12 ga.

What's in your tent?

[Cosmoline]

Re. shotguns. Alaska F&G research in addition to anecdotal evidence has strongly indicated that even 00 buck shot is not a good idea against the great bears. It's sufficient for black bears but the little roundballs do not always have the penetration to get to the vitals of a brown or polar bear on a front shot. On top of this, the pattern of the shot is so tight at close range you get no accuracy advantage over a slug. So the best idea is to load with the meanest Brenneke style hardcast slug you can manage out of a slug gun sighted in for close shots. There are new ones that generate close to 3,000 ft. lbs. at the muzzle and their hardcast form give them better penetration over a soft lead Foster-type deer slug.

The biggest advantages of a slug gun over a rifle or carbine are weight and fast deployment. Even a tricked-out shotgun like mine weighs several pounds less than a scoped hunting rifle, and it's far easier to manipulate at close range than some rifle with an umpteen X scope on it. I've read reports of hunters trying to use maxed out hunting rifles for bear defense and being completely unable to get their bearings aming them on a fast moving target inside of fifty yards.

[TheEgg]

Pistols are great for what they are, close range last line of defence.

Exactly -- for anything else, get thee a rifle!;)

[WorldKush]

Best Weapon: Good Eyes and Ears

I never could understand why anyone would want/need or prepare to let of a rifle in their home... in the middle of the night at that. Sort of like swating a fly with a tire iron. Think about it if someone is coming into your home, u already have the drop on em. Keep your bodies limber so you can slip out of bed, and crouch in a corner w/ your machette (get one made from Carbon steel) . Clean up is alot easier. I love this forum!

_______________________________________________

Killing is not cool

[1911 guy]

My wife and son asleep in bed are the reason I will swat a fly with a tire iron, with a Buick if one is available. If someone enters my home a o-dark-thirty and I get the drop on them, it will likely be with something very large, very loud and very deadly. The hadgun is to fight my way to a better weapon. As for the noise inside a home, it's a moot point. Anything over .22 caliber is going to ring your ears for quite a while, so accept it as the cost of protecting your family and bring a bigger gun.

By the way, welcome to THR. I have to agree with you, this is one of the more interesting boards I've seen. Again, Welcome!

[dogngun]

Due to recent implant of a pacemaker in my right shoulder area, I'm forbidden to shoot long guns (recoil will damage the unit)

I do still like rifles, though - put a folding TAPCO stock on my SAR 1 and practice hip shooting with it.

(+ six handguns and a 110 lb dog)

Mark

[Checkman]

I own a couple Lee-Enfields and an FN Mauser 98K carbine. I also have a 1894Marlin carbine in .357 magnum and a Remington 870 12 gauge. They may not be the fast firing rifles in the world, but they're accurate and pack a punch. However a handgun is better then a rock. So no I don't feel vunerable with a handgun. I do try to be realistic about the limitations of a handgun however.

[Zach S]

Feel vulnerable with only handguns?
It depends on the situation.

Day to day, I dont feel vulnerable with only the handgun on my person.

But if the city has been overrun with zombies, I want a rifle. And friends with rifles. Hopefully they bring their friends with rifles.