[LaEscopeta]

http://home.peoplepc.com/psp/newsstory.asp?cat=news&referrer=welcome&id=20051029/4362f3c0_3ca6_1552620051029-432250364

Caped Teen Kills Two, Then Self in Calif.
Saturday, October 29, 2005
ALISO VIEJO, Calif. - A 19-year-old in a black cape and helmet went on a shooting rampage Saturday in his upscale Southern California neighborhood, killing a man and his daughter before committing suicide, authorities said.

William Freund also fired shots into another house and confronted a neighbor outside, said Orange County Sheriff's Department spokesman Jim Amormino.

There was no known link between the teen and his victims, police said. "It may have been random," Amormino said.

Freund left his home about 9 a.m. and drove less than 100 yards to a house where he killed Vernon Smith, 45, and daughter Christina Smith, 22, with a shotgun, Amormino said. A 20-year-old son escaped after hearing shots.

Freund then walked across the street and fired into another house, Amormino said. A person inside suffered cuts from broken glass.

Another neighbor heard the commotion, came outside and was confronted by the teen, who tried to fire his weapon. When it misfired, Freund went back to his own house and committed suicide, Amormino said.

Police tape blocked off much of the large subdivision in the hills above Aliso Viejo, a wealthy section of south Orange County.

[Standing Wolf]

No, no, no, no, no! Why do these criminals always get it backweird? They're supposed to shoot themselves first, then everyone else.

[saltydog]

Are you sure about this? I know ********** has a bunch of laws to prevent this type of thing from happening.:confused:

[demusn1979]

yes ,does Kommiforna not have a law against that sort of thing.
maybe they should outlaw assault helmets and capes.

[Krenn]

on behalf of cloak and helmet sportsmen everywhere, I would like to state that we can accept a ban on so-called "assault" and "scary-black" helmets and cloaks.

However, our constitutional right to Ghillie-cloaks, SCA steel helmets, ponchos, and bunnysuit face plates must be protected!

[demusn1979]

bunnysuit face plates are out of the question,Diane F certainly doesn't carry one concealed(does she).:scrutiny:

[Krenn]

perhaps we could agree to a license requirement with mandatory background check on bunnysuit face plates?

but only if current face plates are grandfathered in, and an exception is made for faceplates made with lead-free glass or transparent plastic.

plus tax credits.

[Godfather]

Guys...

This may be a juicy opportunity to poke at gun-grabbing politicians, but please keep it in context. Three people are dead. At least make your statements with solemnity.

[Krenn]

Sportsmen United for Cloaks and Helmets (SUCH) decry the use of helmets and cloaks for unlawfull purposes, and our hearts go out to the families involved.

Only when the current laws concerning Cloaks and Helmets are enforced can we truly have peace.

[LaEscopeta]

http://home.peoplepc.com/psp/newsstory.asp?cat=news&referrer=welcome&id=20051030/43644540_3ca6_15526200510301678230435

Sunday, October 30, 2005
ALISO VIEJO, Calif. - Investigators said Sunday they may never know why a 19-year-old man dressed in a dark cape and paintball mask went on a shooting rampage in an upscale community, killing two neighbors and himself.

William Freund, described as a loner, used a 12-gauge shotgun Saturday to kill a neighbor and her father, who lived just 100 yards away, police said. Freund then fired into a separate house and aimed his gun at another neighbor before returning home and committing suicide.

"The motive may never be known," Orange County Sheriff's Department spokesman Jim Amormino said. "It may have been a random thing. What set him off is the big question we're trying to find out."

The victims were identified as Christina Smith, 22, and her father, Vernon Smith, 45.

Police said there was no known link between Freund and the Smiths except that they were neighbors in the large subdivision in the hills above Aliso Viejo, a wealthy section of south Orange County.

Amormino said investigators found no evidence that Freund had been using drugs or alcohol, but added that toxicology tests would take several weeks to complete.

Freund lived with his parents and had been unemployed since graduating from high school in 2003, Amormino said.

Police did not know where Freund bought the weapon or whether it was legally purchased. They said his parents told them they had no clue he had been keeping a gun in their house.

The violence occurred Saturday morning when Freund drove the short distance to the Smiths' house. A 20-year-old son escaped after hearing shots.

Freund then walked across the street and fired into another house, where an occupant suffered cuts from broken glass, Amormino said.

Freund tried to fire at a neighbor who came outside after hearing the commotion, but the gun misfired, Amormino said. Freund went home and killed himself with the same firearm.

"It's without a doubt very bizarre behavior," Amormino said.

[Orthonym]

Some times, like this one, I regret starting that thread back in January, "Prevalence of Asperger's Syndrome Among Gun Nuts."

There's been a *lot* of discussion about this at www.wrongplanet.net, where this guy was a member, and at www.aspiesforfreedom.com, where I sometimes hang out. There was some mention at the latter site that the kid was taking a prescribed neuroleptic drug, "Geodon", which might have had paradoxical effects on him, shrinks not generally knowing that those kinds of drugs are wrong or not needed at all for Autie/Aspie type folks. I mind the purported Prozac-facilitated murders we've all heard about, too

[c_yeager]

I hate to bump an old thread but this story has become very interesting for the internet forum community. There is the information noted above, and now there is a little bit more.

heres a more recent article that discusses it.
http://www.latimes.com/news/local/la-me-shooting1nov01,0,5728150.story?collection=la-yahoostorylinks


And here is the thread at the Something Awful forums in which the shooter inquires about accquiring ammunition for his shotgun. This conversation occured two weeks prior to the shooting, and the member edited one of his posts only three days prior to the shooting itself.

http://forums.somethingawful.com/showthread.php?threadid=1704519&perpage=40&highlight=&pagenumber=1


The user (forbiddenforum) identifies himself by name about 1/3 of the way down the first page of the thread.

I dont think the people at SA did anything wrong, but its something to bear in mind since we are all in a position of discussing things with people who may or may not be in the best mental status.

<edit>You can only view threads on SA a couple of times before you get blocked (they charge for membership) so bear that in mind. I got blocked out and i didnt think to make a copy of the post, hopefully others can still see (im sure we have some forum crossover anyways).<edit>

[Janitor]

I was going to copy the SA thread to put up here, but with all the cussing and formatting problems, probably better for those interested to simply follow the link that c_yeager put up.

I hate to say it - but other than the heavy use of four letter words I've seen similar threads to this one on THR. Threads where somebody who is coming off like a moron (or troll) with a lack of knowledge on weaponry (*cough* Swamp Fox *cough*) and its use is lambasted by the responding THR community. I'm not critizing responders in these situations, just pointing out that we simply do NOT know who we're dealing with in all cases.

When I read the SA thread, it simply reads like the poster isn't very bright, and has some disturbed ideas about self defense. I didn't see shooting rampage and suicide anywhere in it. Normally, when I read posts like the ones he made the only word that comes to mind is "bluster".

No longer.

-

[TrafficMan]

apparently this guy posted over at firing line....

[KC&97TA]

Too bad one of the neighbors wasn't cleaning his deer rifle when this all went down.

Which raises the question? If someone is on a rampage like that in Communist California, and you lean out your window and kill them, will the lovely state of california come after you the shooter?

I live in Cali, but I'm still a resident of MN.

[Paco]

I find it real creepy that his last name "Freund", means friend in German...

-p

[RavenVT100]

I see the SA aspect of this has already come up. This is a horrible situation.

[pauli]

i'm surprised it took so long for that bit of info to show up in this thread.

i'm also surprised that they managed to find a halfwit investigator who thinks that 19 year old mentally ill males kill their 22 year old female neighbors at "random."

then again, look at the reasoning abilities of the rest of the authorities in the state...

[Krenn]

Some times, like this one, I regret starting that thread back in January, "Prevalence of Asperger's Syndrome Among Gun Nuts."

There's been a *lot* of discussion about this at www.wrongplanet.net, where this guy was a member, and at www.aspiesforfreedom.com, where I sometimes hang out. There was some mention at the latter site that the kid was taking a prescribed neuroleptic drug, "Geodon", which might have had paradoxical effects on him, shrinks not generally knowing that those kinds of drugs are wrong or not needed at all for Autie/Aspie type folks. I mind the purported Prozac-facilitated murders we've all heard about, too

Why would you regret that? So far, in reading through the archive of that thread I haven't found anything inapropiate.

Of course, whether or not my perceptions on that matter are usefull would make for a very interesting discussion....

[Krenn]

whats the etiquitte on resurrecting 10-month old threads?

[c_yeager]

whats the etiquitte on resurrecting 10-month old threads?

Just post that your ressurecting it, and why. Otherwise people will reply to it like its a brand new thread, which is always embarrasing.

[chopinbloc]

dude sounds like napoleon dynamite. and i never did figure out the cape thing. does that make sense to anyone?