SAFE Act- now this is a good law


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LAR-15
October 29, 2005, 09:58 PM
Allows CCP in all 50 states (though not DC):

1st Session

H. R. 1243
To amend title 18 of the United States Code to provide for reciprocity in regard to the manner in which nonresidents of a State may carry certain concealed firearms in that State.


IN THE HOUSE OF REPRESENTATIVES

March 10, 2005
Mr. HOSTETTLER (for himself, Mr. JONES of North Carolina, Mr. SESSIONS, Mr. WICKER, Mr. DOOLITTLE, Mr. WAMP, Mr. BURGESS, Mr. GOODE, Mr. SOUDER, Mr. GINGREY, Mr. PENCE, Mr. BARRETT of South Carolina, Mr. HALL, Mr. WILSON of South Carolina, Mr. CANNON, Mr. ADERHOLT, Mr. BARTLETT of Maryland, Mr. BRADLEY of New Hampshire, Mr. MCHENRY, Mr. FOLEY, Mrs. CUBIN, Mr. CANTOR, Mrs. MUSGRAVE, Mr. WESTMORELAND, Mr. BURTON of Indiana, Mr. OTTER, Mr. LEWIS of Kentucky, Ms. GINNY BROWN-WAITE of Florida, Mr. SODREL, and Mr. ALEXANDER) introduced the following bill; which was referred to the Committee on the Judiciary


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------


A BILL
To amend title 18 of the United States Code to provide for reciprocity in regard to the manner in which nonresidents of a State may carry certain concealed firearms in that State.


Be it enacted by the Senate and House of Representatives of the United States of America in Congress assembled,

SECTION 1. SHORT TITLE.

This Act may be cited as the `Secure Access to Firearms Enhancement (SAFE) Act of 2005'.

SEC. 2. RECIPROCITY FOR THE CARRYING OF CERTAIN CONCEALED FIREARMS.

(a) In General- Chapter 44 of title 18, United States Code, is amended by inserting after section 926A the following:

`Sec. 926D. Reciprocity for the carrying of certain concealed firearms

`Notwithstanding any provision of the law of any State or political subdivision thereof, a person who is not prohibited by Federal law from possessing, transporting, shipping, or receiving a firearm, and is--

`(1) carrying a valid license or permit which is issued pursuant to the law of any State and which permits the person to carry a concealed firearm; or

`(2) otherwise entitled to carry a concealed firearm in and pursuant to the law of the State of the person's residence,

may carry in any State a concealed firearm in accordance with the terms of the license or with the laws of the State of the person's residence, subject to the laws of the State in which the firearm is carried concerning specific types of locations in which firearms may not be carried.'.

(b) Clerical Amendment- The table of sections for chapter 44 of title 18 is amended by inserting after the item relating to section 926C the following:

`926D. Reciprocity for the carrying of certain concealed firearms.'.

SEC. 3. EFFECTIVE DATE.

The provisions of this Act and the amendments made by this Act shall take effect 180 days after the date of enactment of this Act.

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jpIII
October 29, 2005, 10:02 PM
Interesting indeed.

Actually, it would seem that certain anti-gun states like california would give more freedom to CCW holders than some shall issue states.

As I understand it those with CA ccw's are virtually unrestricted as far as locations etc.

I like the irony in this.:evil:

AirForceShooter
October 30, 2005, 09:08 AM
WOW!!
I could visit NY and Legally carry.
I lived there for 50 years and carried and kept my mouth shut.

Too bad this isn't going anywhere. Beside I'm pretty sure New York City would ignore it and simply arrest your butt.

But I can dream.

AFS

Tropical Z
October 30, 2005, 11:33 AM
Lets hope this keeps going somewhere positive.

pcf
October 30, 2005, 01:38 PM
The federal government going out of its way to step on States' rights, results in everyone's rights being trampled.

If the title were changed to reciprocity for registered voters, we would all be screaming bloody murder. CCW and CCW reciprocity isn't and should not become the business of the Federal Government

DRZinn
October 30, 2005, 02:03 PM
CCW and CCW reciprocity isn't and should not become the business of the Federal GovernmentAu contraire, mon frÍre. The business of the federal government is regulating relationships between the states. Marriage and driver's license reciprocity is universaL, why shouldn't CCW be?

Graystar
October 30, 2005, 02:10 PM
That's very BAD law. It's not gonna go anywhere anyways so it doesn't really matter.

beerslurpy
October 30, 2005, 02:30 PM
Too bad this isn't going anywhere. Beside I'm pretty sure New York City would ignore it and simply arrest your butt.

This is where test cases come from and how great precedents get made.

Devonai
October 30, 2005, 02:32 PM
I checked the House website and there isn't any information about the progress of this bill. Do you think they'll actually get to it this session?

beerslurpy
October 30, 2005, 02:37 PM
Ms. GINNY BROWN-WAITE of Florida

Sweet. Why she is still "unrated" by the GOA, I have no idea. The only person that sponsors more pro-gun bills than her is Ron Paul.

LAR-15
October 30, 2005, 02:41 PM
My safety does not stop at the state line. :mad:


But you will have states like Illinois and New York screaming bloody murder- as they did on LEO CCW.

As for it being brought up, contact your reps and bug them to cosponsor.

It could certainly be brought up next year.

NEXT YEAR IS AN ELECTION YEAR!!!!!!!!!!

LAR-15
October 30, 2005, 02:43 PM
Sweet. Why she is still "unrated" by the GOA, I have no idea. The only person that sponsors more pro-gun bills than her is Ron Paul.

I disagree.

Butch Otter of Idaho is second to Ron Paul in terms of pro gun bills.

He seems to cosponsor every single one. :)

Kharn
October 30, 2005, 03:19 PM
It seems to me that:
`(1) carrying a valid license or permit which is issued pursuant to the law of any State and which permits the person to carry a concealed firearm; orThis would let anyone with any permit (out of state or resident) carry, even in their home state with an out-of-state permit (ie: Maryland/Cali resident with a Florida permit) and
`(2) otherwise entitled to carry a concealed firearm in and pursuant to the law of the State of the person's residence,This would let Alaskans and Vermont residents carry whereever they want.

Am I reading it right?

Kharn

LAR-15
October 30, 2005, 03:23 PM
I think so.

wingnutx
October 30, 2005, 03:26 PM
I have to oppose this even though I would enjoy the outcome.

States need to handle reciprocity between themselves, not have the feds strip them of their soveriegnty.

LAR-15
October 30, 2005, 03:28 PM
I have to oppose this even though I would enjoy the outcome.

States need to handle reciprocity between themselves, not have the feds strip them of their soveriegnty.

That would never totally happen.

It's the Feds business to care about the safety and defense of it's citizens.

Therefore it has the authority to make sure a Vermont Resident is safe when visiting Massachusetts.

And one way is allow nationwide CCW.

LSCurrier
October 30, 2005, 03:41 PM
How can it be that reciprocity of CCW licenses should not be handled by the Federal government?

Is Freedom of Speach (1st Amendment) not accepted throughout the land as a granted right of the Constitution?

Are not the drivers licenses of one state honored in every other state of the country?

Then how is the Right to Keep and Bear Arms (2nd Amendment) different? Why is the constitutional right for a law-abiding citizen stop when he leaves his state? Or in my case, it stops even when I am in my own state as I live in a very anti-gun county of New York and cannot even get a CCW??? :fire:

Someone please explain this to me!!

And please do not make the argument of state rights!!! When do states rights have the right to trample on my Constitutional RIGHTS???? :banghead:

Luke

Dead
October 30, 2005, 04:04 PM
I think this would BAR me from carrying in my home state, EVEN if I had a non-resident permit in another state. Just make it so you do NOT need a permit to carry like Vermont, then it would be GOOD. While I do say this one is a good start...

Now States have RIGHTS, but NO right to tell me I can not CARRY a firearm or other items for my personal/family protection... Indeed even my STATE consititution states that we are to be "secure in our person, propertry etc", but that is a truly hollow statement in my state.... well unless you are in government...

Kharn
October 30, 2005, 04:23 PM
Dead:
The bill states:
[A] person who is not prohibited by Federal law from possessing, transporting, shipping, or receiving a firearm, and is--

`(1) carrying a valid license or permit which is issued pursuant to the law of any State and which permits the person to carry a concealed firearm; or
[snip]
may carry in any State a concealed firearm in accordance with the terms of the license or with the laws of the State of the person's residence, subject to the laws of the State in which the firearm is carried concerning specific types of locations in which firearms may not be carried.'.Any person may get a license from any state they choose and then carry in all fifty states.

Kharn

det.pat
October 30, 2005, 04:44 PM
I think that this just spells out what the constitution already says about the official act ofany state must be respected by the other states. this has been selectively ignored for most of our history.
pat

xd9fan
October 31, 2005, 11:52 AM
Why do I need a "state"(state and federal) issued permit to carry? What does keep and bear arms mean? Where is the state-to state push for a Vermont/alaska system??????

Do I need a state permit to talk too???
Oh *$%&* sorry I was thinking the Bill of Rights was absolute.....damn....

AirForceShooter
October 31, 2005, 11:55 AM
I'm not sure why we even need this law.
The "good faith: clause of the Constitution should cover this .
It's why your drivers license is good in all 50 states.
Not to mention your marriage license.

AFS

Strings
October 31, 2005, 02:44 PM
AFS: that was brought up in the "gay marriage" thread: a bill that would, if nothing else, be an absolute RIOT to watch the progress of...

Write a bill, based on the full faith and credit clause, allowing both gay marriage and national CCW reciprocity. The left would be screaming about the CCW part, the right would scream about the gay marriage part, and neither side could REALLY vote against it because it has something that both sides want to get.

Personally, I think that one would make a spectator sport...

Werewolf
October 31, 2005, 03:05 PM
Personally, I think that one would make a spectator sport...ROFLMAO...

You are one sick puppy - in a good way - of course...

Cellar Dweller
October 31, 2005, 11:18 PM
Dead:
The bill states:
Any person may get a license from any state they choose and then carry in all fifty states.

Kharn

What about this?
subject to the laws of the State in which the firearm is carried concerning specific types of locations in which firearms may not be carried.'.
Four states (IL WI NE KS) still prohibit concealed carry, therefore nothing would change (and your rights would still end at the border) in thoses four even if this becomes law.

I could get a non-resident permit and carry in the other 46 though; even more important would be the pressure on the last four holdouts to conform, and the pressure on "may issue" states to "shall issue, or I'll just get a non-resident permit and you won't get my permit fees."

psyopspec
November 1, 2005, 12:49 AM
Am I reading it right?

Yes, with the exception of one clause -

may carry in any State a concealed firearm in accordance with the terms of the license or with the laws of the State of the person's residence, subject to the laws of the State in which the firearm is carried concerning specific types of locations in which firearms may not be carried.'

Prohibited locations stay prohibited according the laws of the given state. I say it's an interesting experiment - while I'd like to see the power of the states come through on reciprocity, I wouldn't do much complaining if this was passed as written.

The-Fly
November 1, 2005, 01:05 AM
AFS: that was brought up in the "gay marriage" thread: a bill that would, if nothing else, be an absolute RIOT to watch the progress of...

Write a bill, based on the full faith and credit clause, allowing both gay marriage and national CCW reciprocity. The left would be screaming about the CCW part, the right would scream about the gay marriage part, and neither side could REALLY vote against it because it has something that both sides want to get.

Personally, I think that one would make a spectator sport...

lol thats classic. And the twisted thing is, i'd vote for it in a heart beat. Civil rights for everyone, gays and gun owners. No wonder the fascists and the socialists (AKA the republican and democratic parties) would never vote for it.

beerslurpy
November 1, 2005, 01:08 AM
So someone from TX could get a FL CCW and conealed carry knives, knuckles and machine guns isntead of just pistols

Strings
November 1, 2005, 01:56 AM
The really beautiful thing about a Federal CCW reciprocity law? Those states that don't currently have some form of CCW (like WI or IL) would suddenly have to allow it, yet gain no revenue FROM it. I would LOVE to walk into the office of one of our lovely anti legiscritters and point that out after passage... :evil:

Graystar
November 1, 2005, 06:33 AM
Are not the drivers licenses of one state honored in every other state of the country?Only because every state has laws that say so.

I think this would BAR me from carrying in my home state, EVEN if I had a non-resident permit in another state.That would be correct. Your ability to carry is based on your state of residence...not the state that issues the license.

Just make it so you do NOT need a permit to carry like Vermont, then it would be GOOD. While I do say this one is a good start...For people from Vermont, it already does.

I'm not sure why we even need this law.
The "good faith: clause of the Constitution should cover this .
It's why your drivers license is good in all 50 states."Good Faith" doesn't do that. As I said above, your drivers license is good across all fifty states because there are fifty laws that say so.

Forcing one state to uphold the laws of another state violates state sovereignty.

DRZinn
November 1, 2005, 09:47 AM
Full Faith and Credit shall be given in each State to the public Acts, Records, and judicial Proceedings of every other State.I don't know what the precedents are, but that has potential.

KnightHawk67
November 1, 2005, 10:45 AM
As far as I care, State sovereignty can take a "dinger" if it means we can carry in different states without worrying one of those states has some weird law that will get us tossed into jail for merely being in that state. The states have given up so much power to the bad side of things, one loss to our benefit might not be so terrible. I might be wrong in that opinion, but I have been wrong at least once before :)

LAR-15
November 1, 2005, 10:58 AM
Have you urged your reps to cosponsor this bill?

Graystar
November 1, 2005, 11:08 AM
The states have given up so much power to the bad side of things, one loss to our benefit might not be so terrible.There's a big difference between giving up a power to the Federal government and being forced to uphold the laws of another state. The first is a delegation of power to a greater authority. The second is a lateral expansion of the powers of one state into another state. That's a big difference.

Chrontius
November 1, 2005, 01:17 PM
AFS: that was brought up in the "gay marriage" thread: a bill that would, if nothing else, be an absolute RIOT to watch the progress of...

Write a bill, based on the full faith and credit clause, allowing both gay marriage and national CCW reciprocity. The left would be screaming about the CCW part, the right would scream about the gay marriage part, and neither side could REALLY vote against it because it has something that both sides want to get.

Personally, I think that one would make a spectator sport...


Dude, that one made me laugh out loud. In a public computer lab. Let's call our congrescritters and get them to do it.

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