[yucapote]

Iraq was invaded becasue Saddam violated about a dozen UN resolutions. I have nothing against Israel, but this is outrageous.


United Nations Security Council Resolutions Currently Being Violated by Israel

Resolution 252 (1968) Israel
Urgently calls upon Israel to rescind measures that change the legal status of Jerusalem, including the expropriation of land and properties thereon.

262 (1968) Israel
Calls upon Israel to pay compensation to Lebanon for destruction of airliners at Beirut International Airport.

267 (1969) Israel
Urgently calls upon Israel to rescind measures seeking to change the legal status of occupied East Jerusalem.

271 (1969) Israel
Reiterates calls to rescind measures seeking to change the legal status of occupied East Jerusalem and calls on Israel to scrupulously abide by the Fourth Geneva Convention regarding the responsibilities of occupying powers.

298 (1971) Israel
Reiterates demand that Israel rescind measures seeking to change the legal status of occupied East Jerusalem.

446 (1979) Israel
Calls upon Israel to scrupulously abide by the Fourth Geneva Convention regarding the responsibilities of occupying powers, to rescind previous measures that violate these relevant provisions, and "in particular, not to transport parts of its civilian population into the occupied Arab territories."

452 (1979) Israel
Calls on the government of Israel to cease, on an urgent basis, the establishment, construction, and planning of settlements in the Arab territories, occupied since 1967, including Jerusalem.

465 (1980) Israel
Reiterates previous resolutions on Israel's settlements policy.

471 (1980) Israel
Demands prosecution of those involved in assassination attempts of West Bank leaders and compensation for damages; reiterates demands to abide by Fourth Geneva Convention.

484 (1980) Israel
Reiterates request that Israel abide by the Fourth Geneva Convention.

487 (1981) Israel
Calls upon Israel to place its nuclear facilities under the safeguard of the UN's International Atomic Energy Agency.

497 (1981) Israel
Demands that Israel rescind its decision to impose its domestic laws in the occupied Syri573 (1985) Israel
Calls on Israel to pay compensation for human and material losses from its attack against Tunisia and to refrain from all such attacks or threats of attacks against other nations.

592 (1986) Israel
Insists Israel abide by the Fourth Geneva Conventions in East Jerusalem and other occupied territories.

605 (1987) Israel
"Calls once more upon Israel, the occupying Power, to abide immediately and scrupulously by the Geneva Convention relative to the Protection of Civilian Persons in Times of War, and to desist forthwith from its policies and practices that are in violations of the provisions of the Convention."

607 (1986) Israel
Reiterates calls on Israel to abide by the Fourth Geneva Convention and to cease its practice of deportations from occupied Arab territories.

608 (1988) Israel
Reiterates call for Israel to cease its deportations.

636 (1989) Israel
Reiterates call for Israel to cease its deportations.

641 (1989) Israel
Reiterates previous resolutions calling on Israel to desist in its deportations.
an Golan region.

672 (1990) Israel
Reiterates calls for Israel to abide by provisions of the Fourth Geneva Convention in the occupied Arab territories.

673 (1990) Israel
Insists that Israel come into compliance with resolution 672.

681 (1990) Israel
Reiterates call on Israel to abide by Fourth Geneva Convention in the occupied Arab territories.

694 (1991) Israel
Reiterates that Israel "must refrain from deporting any Palestinian civilian from the occupied territories and ensure the safe and immediate return of all those deported."

726 (1992) Israel
Reiterates calls on Israel to abide by the Fourth Geneva Convention and to cease its practice of deportations from occupied Arab territories.

799 (1992) Israel
"Reaffirms applicability of Fourth Geneva Convention…to all Palestinian territories occupied by Israel since 1967, including Jerusalem, and affirms that deportation of civilians constitutes a contravention of its obligations under the Convention."

904 (1994) Israel
Calls upon Israel, as the occupying power, "to take and implement measures, inter alia, confiscation of arms, with the aim of preventing illegal acts of violence by settlers."

1073 (1996) Israel
"Calls on the safety and security of Palestinian civilians to be ensured."

1322 (2000) Israel
Calls upon Israel to scrupulously abide by the Fourth Geneva Convention regarding the responsibilities of occupying power.

1402 (2002) Israel
Calls for Israel to withdraw from Palestinian cities.

1403 (2002) Israel
Demands that Israel go through with "the implementation of its resolution 1402, without delay."

1405 (2002) Israel
Calls for UN inspectors to investigate civilian deaths during an Israeli assault on the Jenin refugee camp.

1435 (2002) Israel
Calls on Israel to withdraw to positions of September 2000 and end its military activities in and around Ramallah, including the destruction of security and civilian infrastructure.

[Pendragon]

You know what? The UN would back the
Big Bad Wolf over the Three Little Pigs. Maybe you have not heard the story...

Israel is a sovereign nation that places its own existence and security above the demands of the UN. The Arab nations ALL want to see Israel destroyed utterly and are engaged in opposing the Israelis in every possible arena - from political to military, etc.

The UN is not all powerful, not is it all benevolent. It is a political organization and the enemies of Israel try to use the UN as a weapon.

The UN should be disbanded in disgrace - it ignored the genocide in Rwanda - even though it knew of it before it began, but they love to posture on Israel and the US - bring the sovereign democracies down a few notches.

I say we all give the UN the big finger and tell them to "make us".

The UN is not the world police, they are not the world court, they are not the world legislature. Most of the countries in the UN are not free countries. Iraq is head of the council on human rights for Christs sake.

[cuchulainn]

We aren't invading Iraq because they violated U.N. resolutions.

We're invading Iraq because they have weapons of mass destruction, and there happen to be U.N. resolutions related to that.

Big difference.

[hansolo]

The person who started this thread lists TEACHER as occupation on Bio: what do you teach? Anti-Semitism? You either don't have a clue regarding the Jewish State, or you just hate the Jewish people. I feel sorry for your students. :uhoh:

[ahenry]

Iraq was invaded becasue Saddam violated about a dozen UN resolutions. Guess again, my good sir. Invoking the UN was only for the edification of those panty-waist, yellow-bellied, sissified, girl scouts that don’t know how to stand on their own two feet and do what has to be done unless some percentage of the rest of the world agrees to it. Well that and to keep Britain with us. As others said, the fact that there happened to be UN resolutions that coincided with our needs was icing on the cake. We don’t (for the most part) give two hoots in hell for UN resolutions that harm the well being of one of our allies, any more than we care for UN resolutions that harm our own well being.

[trapshooter]

Seig.....HEIL!

Seig.....HEIL!

Seig.....HEIL!

Sound familiar?

Maybe a viewing of 'Triumph of the Will' later?

How about a rousing chorus of the 'Horst Wessel'?

Jeeeesus.

[OF]

Iraq was invaded becasue Saddam violated about a dozen UN resolutions.Bzzzzzt. Try again.

- Gabe

[nemesis]

And what is the number of the UN resolution demanding that the Palestinians stop homicide bombing innocent civilians?

The UN is the bully pulpit for tin pot dictators and third world tyranny's that have no other voice.

I can readily see the wisdom of allowing Libya, Syria, Cameroon and Mexico make our decisions for us.

It's time for us to dump the UN.

[Azrael256]

Unless I missed something, all of the post-1973 resolutions are the same thing. They have different wording, but they're the same thing... funny how that happens.

Anyway, who cares? When the U.N. decides to land troops and try to enforce its resolutions, which it obviously will not do, I will listen to them only as long as it takes for them to be totally destroyed simply for my own amusement. Israel needs to leave the UN with two words: Molon Labe!

[Lone_Gunman]

yucapote

I think you have a basic misunderstanding as to who the good guys are, and who the bad guys are.

[Khornet]

Have you seen UN Resolution 11,996?

"Palestine shall be rendered Judenfrei"

[agricola]

yucapote,

i wouldnt even bother mate - making any kind of negative comment about Israel makes you into the biggest antisemite since Hitler after all. besides, the generations of Palestinians in the camps deserve it because they celebrate when something bad happens to the United States, despite not actually being involved in it.

[cuchulainn]

i wouldnt even bother mate - making any kind of negative comment about Israel makes you into the biggest antisemite since Hitler after all. besides, the generations of Palestinians in the camps deserve it because they celebrate when something bad happens to the United States, despite not actually being involved in it.

There is a lot of motive ascribing going on in this thread, including from you agricola.

Whatever the motives all around, yucapote's premise is flawed. See my original post above.

[agricola]

cu,

your premise is that they have violated UN resolutions at the end of the day.

[cuchulainn]

Yes, Iraq has violated resolutions, but nonetheless that's not the reason we're going in.

It's not the resolutions, but what's behind them that is the justification for war. Israel has done some bad stuff, but it does not justify invasion. There's a big differnence between bulldozing houses and having a WMD program.

yucapote is confusing the resolutions with the justification.

[trooper]

Calm down, guys...

Great subject for a lengthy debate, really...

Isreal may or may have not violated UN resolutions. But this thread has turned into a flame war against someone who dared to criticize Israel.

While I understand that Israel has been constantly fighting for its survival since it came into existence this is no reason to dismiss all criticism directed towards it. It seems to be some sort of "holy cow" among conservatives that anyone who criticizes Israel has to be either a crazy, Palestinean-loving leftist or a nazi.

Accusing someone of being antisemitic just for bringing up the question whether Israel violated the human rights of some Palestineans or not, is not right. Talk about the High Road...

To put things straight on my side: of course Israel does have indeed reasons enough to worry about it's national security. And I do feel sympathetic for a small people that managed to stay alive among it's many enemies for sixty years because of it's courage and determination. And I feel shocked and sad when I see the victims of suicide bombers bleeding in the streets.

But that doesn't make me blind for it's mistakes. Israeli forces do have committed atrocities among Palestineans, too. And I equally do recognize the Palestinean's right to be an independent nation. Both sides have done their part to thwart the peace process at numerous points in history. It doesn't help to declare one side as the "good guys". If the good guy kills unarmed women and children he is, by definition, not good.

Just my 0.02 €...


Regards,

Trooper

[cordex]

ag,
Speaking out against Israel does not immediately make you anti-semetic in my opinion.
Playing the "you can't argue with these idiots" card is juvenile and ignorant as many ... no, most of us can be reasoned with. Sure, there were several posts that were ill thought out and merely knee-jerk reactions. The reast were valid responses to someone who had a fundamentally faulty premise.

The lack of a valid response to those points (why we are going to war with Iraq, the absence of UN resolutions condemning suicide bombers come to mind directly) is telling.

[Sodbuster]

a small people that managed to stay alive among it's many enemies for sixty years
Make that for thousands of years. :) But I know what you mean. Israel wasn't supposed to survive the British withdrawal, the end of the British mandate. Palestine received tacit British support to attack the Israelis. Big problem for the Palestinians: they didn't have the leadership that David Ben-Gurion provided the Israelis. And the Arabs remain divided to this day. Note that Jordan was the only Arab country to accept Palestinian refugees during the 1948 conflict. Jordan was among the poorest of Arab countries. The other Arabs refused to help. An indicative display of self-centeredness IMHO.

[cordex]

Note that Jordan was the only Arab country to accept Palestinian refugees during the 1948 conflict. Jordan was among the poorest of Arab countries. The other Arabs refused to help. An indicative display of self-centeredness IMHO.
You mean the vast majority of the Arab Coalition of Peace and Happiness didn't allow its oppressed bretheren to be taken in and naturalized? You mean that these wonderous nations stopped Palestinian refugees at the border and forced them to remain in camps gestating anger and unrest between attempts and "pushing the Jewish beast into the sea" rather than trying to move on?

Well call me a hog and butcher me for bacon! Whodathunkit?

[0007]

And don't forget that when these self same refugees decided that they wanted to run Jordan, the King proceeded to unload a whole case whup-*** on them and drive most of them down to the sea where the US navy off-loaded them and took them elsewhere. Most of those that stayed still can't get Jordanian citizenship or passports.

[hansolo]

This "Israel basher" has the handle "Trooper"(Like in SS Trooper?),and, according to his bio, is a police (Politzie)officer in Germany? HELLO! At least be honest...if you hate Jews, just come out of your post WWII closet, Gerd! And, Yes, I am Jewish and damn proud of it! (Juden, to you.:rolleyes:)

I can hear it coming..."This is the HIGH Road, mmmmkay?"
Well, when you start trashing the Jewish state, the gloves come off!

[Ian]

:what:

Keee-rist, you'd think someone called John Wayne un-American.

The point is (IMO) NOT anti-Israel! The point is that using the Iraqi violation of UN sanctions to justify our invasion is hypocritical when many other countries have (rightly) violated UN dictate as well (I strongly suspect that we have violated a UN edict or two ourselves at some point). Before the invasion, we heard an awful lot about kicking Saddam out primarily because he violated UN edicts. Or about kicking him out because he might have WMDs. Well, so do lots of people. Syria, Pakistan, North Korea, and Israel, among others. Again, the point is NOT anti-Israel! Rather, the point is that attacking Iraq over WMDs is hypocritical (unless we invade all those other nations too).

[Dannyboy]

Wow, why don't you just come out and say, "F*** you, you Jew hating Nazi pig?":rolleyes: That's pretty lame. Especially when the guy's right. Israel is just as guilty as the Palestinians for the trouble there.

[Steel]

We're invading Iraq because they have weapons of mass destruction, and there happen to be U.N. resolutions related to that

let's not forget that they also fund and train Islamic terror cells (ie. training for those dozens of 9/11 suicide losers)

[cuchulainn]

Rather, the point is that attacking Iraq over WMDs is hypocritical (unless we invade all those other nations too).

No, yucapote's flawed point is that it is hypocritical to invade Iraq over failure to meet U.N. resolutions and not invade Israel for the same reason. It is flawed because it relies on the false premise that we are invading over the resolutions.

+++++++
+++++++

The following is not directed at anyone in this thread: :)

Besides, what's with this silly "fairness" notion that we have to treat every nation exactly the same like some kindergarten teacher measuring each slice of cake to assure it is the exact same size and shape? Calls for cookie-cutter, stock-response fairness in international relations are either naive or purposely specious.

Yeah, we treat each nation differently for similar problems. We're invading Iraq but not invading Korea for the same problem, for example

So what?

(And who said we have to address each problem nation at the exact same time? We'll get to Korea in time, whatever we decide is the smartest response appropriate to that particular situation.)

[trooper]

This "Israel basher" has the handle "Trooper"(Like in SS Trooper?),and, according to his bio, is a police (Politzie)officer in Germany? HELLO! At least be honest...if you hate Jews, just come out of your post WWII closet, Gerd! And, Yes, I am Jewish and damn proud of it! (Juden, to you.:rolleyes

I can hear it coming..."This is the HIGH Road, mmmmkay?"
Well, when you start trashing the Jewish state, the gloves come off!


Hansolo,

read my post again if you please. Show me where I "trashed the Jewish state". As I said before I do hold sympathies for Israel. I admire it's people's will and courage in the face of overwhelming odds. However, I don't side with it because I continue to believe that both sides did their part to keep this conflict alive, especially during the last couple years.
I refuse to resort to black-and-white-painting.

I consider your accusation of me being a Nazi paramilitary a rude insult.

Yes, I'm a German police officer and I'm proud of it. And for the record, a lot of my colleagues are currently assigned to guard local synagogues against suspected terrorist attacks by muslim fundamentalists.

I hope this clears up some of your misunderstandings.


Regards,

Trooper

[Ian]

cuchulainn - I recognize that not everyone uses the UN resolutions as the prime motive for our invasion, but some people do.

Frankly, for any of the reasons used to justify the war, there are better targets than Iraq. There are far more threatening nations than Iraq, and there are nations much more heavily involved in supporting terrorism, and there are many more despotic dictators than Saddam. Claire Wolfe addresses that last point quite well:

What are you willing to sacrifice In the cause of deposing every dictator who tortures, kills, enslaves, or imprisons his people without cause? What are countries like Cuba, North Korea, Zimbabwe, Angola, Libya, or Haiti (just to name a few) worth to you, personally? Would you sacrifice your son's life solely to liberate the people of those nations? Your daughter's? Yours? How much of your life are you willing to surrender in taxes to settle Columbia's problems or Myanmar's by force of American arms? If the U.S. deposes one dictator and the citizens of that country allow another to rise in his place, how many years, lives, and billions of dollars should we spend to re-invade, re-depose, and re-build? Are you willing to risk having your country, your state, or your hometown nuked, bio-attacked, or chem-attacked by some petty dictator who's angry at U.S. attempts to overthrow him -- or by residents of some country that resents U.S. occupation? Are you willing to live 100 percent of the rest of your life -- and have your children and grandchildren live 100 percent of the rest of their lives -- in a state of heightened alerts and curtailed civil liberties (the biproducts of wartime)? ... I want the dictators gone, too. Every last one of them. But this is not the way.

[cuchulainn]

Ian,

I'll add to my last post (to the stuff under the ++++'s) -- Who said we have to address the most deserving nation first?

We address each nation separately, using different responses appropriate to the particular situation and in the time of our own choosing.

As for those who use the resolutions as the motive, they too are confusing the resolutions and the justification.

[LawDog]

:fire: :cuss: :banghead:

KNOCK OFF THE PERSONAL ATTACKS!

Jumping Judas Priest on a flaming pogo stick, I swear to whatever God may be listening I have never, in all my born days, come across anybody as bloody bull-headed and iron-assed as this group.

Do I have to come to your house and beat the words: "No Personal Attacks" into your foreheads with a tire tool? Is it going to jolly well require an extended session with a tattoo needle to get my point across?

Jesus, Mary and Joseph!

Lights OUT.

LawDog