[XDn00b101]

I was talking to an Officer at a store. We where talking about the Second Amendment, and when I said that I don't see the need for a CCW in a huge city, and only in a rural area, because of all the police like him would be in a city; he thought I was literally insane. He quickly said that the larger the population, the more you need to be packing. He said he never goes anywhere without a gun. He told me that most of the time, that after he arrives at a crime scene the damage has already been done...

[tater_salad]

From my experience, a majority of LEOs support concealed carry

[Fly320s]

Were you baiting him or is that what you honestly believe?

In either case, I'm glad to hear that the officer has his head screwed on right.

[Joejojoba111]

+1 +1 +1

We need a moderator, please sticky this thread. Talk about your role models, we need this thread to always compare the other depressing police threads to.

[El Tejon]

police officers on "the street" =/= police brass who are often politically appointed.

Heck, even the police brass pack. Remember during the '80s when NYC was in full hissy fit over the Glock then the head po-po Brown said that it was one of his favorite pistols.:D

I favor a law that states that if police want to bad mouth our civil right to keep and bear arms then they should do their jobs unarmed.:cool:

[hillbilly]

XDn00b101, just curious.

Do you seriously believe what you said to the officer?

Do you really, truly, and seriously believe that nobody needs to carry inside a major city?

Just curious.

I see that you have, at the time of my questions to you, six total posts.

Obviously, you are rather new around here.

But just wanting to make sure that what you wrote is indeed the position you are staking out here.

hillbilly

[shaldag]

I am VERY happy that some police officers feel that way.

I have had experience with police brass that do not believe that "civilians" should be able to carry. Of course, THEY carry when off duty. They just don't want anyone else to be able to. Sounds like some politicians and celebrities to me.

Personally I feel that the more people around, the more reason to carry.

[Lennyjoe]

I said that I don't see the need for a CCW in a huge city, and only in a rural area
Someone needs to wake up and smell the coffee.

BTW, welcome to THR;)

[Kim]

The big cities is exactly where you need to carry. I have never understood how someone could believe different. I stay away from cities for many reason but crime is the big one. I will not go to one where I can not carry.

[TrafficMan]

i wish the LEO's in SOCAL had that attitude....

[forquidder]

I live in an area where I'm surrounded by grizzlies, wolves, wolverines, coyotes, foxes etc. Ocasionally you'll find me out and about without a firearm.
When I hit the big city I'm ALWAYS strapped up due to the increased threat of the far more dangerous predators who live there.

[simon]

i wish the LEO's in SOCAL had that attitude....
I was talking to a cop in Hawthorne that said that every home should have at least a shotgun, I don't know what his feeling was on CCW....

[Strings]

Last year, when we were pushing our Assembly to overturn the Goobernor's veto of CCW, there was ONE police chief (in uniform) there on our side. I distinctly remember him telling Monkeyleg: "if you're ever hassled in my town for carrying, tell the officer to call me". REALLY nice guy, hilarious to talk to during the circus that is our legislature at "work", and VERY proCCW...

[oldschool]

I find that most of the Police that I know are Pro-RKBA but my sample is tainted in that all of the Police I know, I know from shooting IDPA and other events with.
My only issue with carrying in a large city is exponentially more inocent-bystanders to catch a stray round. That just means be extra careful in your shot selection and be very sure of what is behind you target. In a "tight" street environment I might go with a knife first even if carrying a gun because; a) I can deploy it faster and b) the knife won't ricochet off things at a shallow angle with enough energy to do grivious harm. I'm fair at shooting from retention but some risks you just don't take.

[dasmi]

You've got it backwards, my friend.

[XDn00b101]

XDn00b101, just curious.

Do you seriously believe what you said to the officer?

Do you really, truly, and seriously believe that nobody needs to carry inside a major city?

Just curious.

I see that you have, at the time of my questions to you, six total posts.

Obviously, you are rather new around here.

But just wanting to make sure that what you wrote is indeed the position you are staking out here.

hillbilly


I'm new to the whole scene. I thought the more people, the more cops, the faster the responders. :banghead:

[dasmi]

Nope, more people in a confined area equals more danger, equals you'd better carry a gun.

[Rob1035]

cities are where I want to carry. I try to stay in the country as much as possible

[loose cannon]

I'm new to the whole scene. I thought the more people, the more cops, the faster the responders. :banghead:



dont sweat it xdn we all came from a position of lacking knowledge once,stick around read and learn.

the ones who need to bang their heads into the wall seldom do,they are the closed minded anti self defense mind numbed brady bots who are not to be confused by the facts.

[hillbilly]

First, XDn00b101, welcome to the High Road.

Second, as for your ideas, I think you are learning that around here, you are being considered about half right.

Yes, there are more cops in an urban area. There is more help available. You are right about that.

But, I think you are missing about half the equation.

While there are more emergency personnel inside a city, on the flip side, there are also a lot more gang bangers, murderers, rapists, carjackers, and all manner of mean nasty types just because there are more people.

It's just a function of sheer numbers.

If only 1% of a total population is pscyhotic enough to become murderers, that means in a very small, rural town of 2000 people, you 've got 20 potential murderers.

But in a city of two-million, you've got 20,000 potential murderers.

And if the population density is high enough, you might have those 20,000 potential murderers crammed together in an area about the same size as a rural town of 2000, spread over a couple of miles.

In a rural place, it will take a lot longer for help to get there, but the chances of it happening to you are lower, In an urban area, help will get there quicker, but the chances of facing really bad people is a lot higher.

hillbilly

[stevelyn]

police officers on "the street" =/= police brass who are often politically appointed.

Heck, even the police brass pack. Remember during the '80s when NYC was in full hissy fit over the Glock then the head po-po Brown said that it was one of his favorite pistols.:D

I favor a law that states that if police want to bad mouth our civil right to keep and bear arms then they should do their jobs unarmed.:cool:

I'm willing to bet that police officers who'll bad mouth our civil right to keep and bear arms probably wouldn't hesitate to violate any our other civil rights given the opportunity.:scrutiny:

[Werewolf]

In an urban area, help will get there quicker,It may be true that the police can arrive on scene in an urban area quicker than a rural - like - say - 10 minutes instead of 30.

BUT 10 minutes is more than enough time for a BG to do his thing so in the final analysis XD we all better be prepared to defend ourselves because it isn't likely the cops will get there in time to do it for us.

[Gunpacker]

Yep, it's a fact that the cops get there quicker and in greater numbers. That is because there are a lot of them around in any area. They get the report started quicker and sometimes catch the bad guy. That doesn't do anything for the victim that is likelier to be targeted in a big city. When I was in law enforcement, cops used to jokingly call themselves "armed secretaries". When a serious crime occurs, it happens in an instant, and the bad guy doesn't wait around for the cops. Usually if there is an identifying witness, the detectives will make an arrest much later. Very seldom will a police officer make an arrest for a crime in progress. Maybe an alarmed robbery arrest occasionally. If you want protection for yourself, you had better provide it, or hope that you live to dictate the events for the cop that arrives in several minutes.

[Standing Wolf]

He told me that most of the time, that after he arrives at a crime scene the damage has already been done...

The police don't prevent crime. They write crime reports and occasionally catch criminals. If you want to prevent crime, you're on your own.

[GregGry]

I am going into LE myself, and I can say I am pro CCW for everyone that can legally own a firearm. I believe that the police is a needed entity, however to rely on them totally, is foolish. Lets say a officer could respond to a call about someone breaking into your house, in 4 minutes flat. If the person breaking into your house wants to kill you (or something along those lines) 4 minutes is more then enough time to do the criminal to accomplish that. Relying on the police to protect you everywhere, is like relying on a firearm that you keep somewhere other then where you are.

Sure in a home invasion you might be able to use a knife against the perp, but if he has a firearm, the scales are tipped in his/her favor. Simply put, if your serious about your safety, you should have a bare minimum of a shotgun/handgun that is accessible in the house, and you should carry a pistol that you can accurately shoot, at all times you are out. Especially in the city. Robberies happen daily in all areas of my city. Out in the country, they are not so common, because the population is lower. Anytime you cram many people of diffrent cultures together in small areas, bad things are bound to happen.

[kirkcdl]

Add to that:in the country robberies are not so common,another reason is that a higher percentage of the population is armed in the country versus the city.

[middy]

Another fact:

In rural areas, people tend to only murder their own kin. If you're not related to them, you're probably in no danger. :D

[bogie]

I used to live in roughly the geographic center of a metro area of about 2 million people.

EVERY time I called the cops, except one, including on a shots fired incident, they took at least 20 minutes to arrive. The one exception was one of my neighbors, who either took too much or not enough of an obviously needed medication, who decided that a summer evening would be a great time for her to run up and down the road in front of the apartment buildings screaming... Oh, and nekkid as a jaybird... Didn't know what was going on, called the cops. In the _five minutes_ before the neighborhood looked like someone was giving away free donuts, boyfriend managed to get her to put on her clothes. Bad idea. Her car keys were in a pocket. She managed to make at least three passes up and down the street, with a yard job at each end to turn around, before the cops showed. She bailed, and immediately got clotheslined... I was a little worried about that (bowing...) but since she then commenced to trying to kill the police with her (untrained...) bare hands, I didn't have to worry long...

[Powderman]

I'm new to the whole scene. I thought the more people, the more cops, the faster the responders. :banghead:

Not quite, friend.

Police work by its very nature is only about 25% pro-active, and 75% reactive. The emphasis today for officers on patrol is aggressive, proactive community oriented patrol, with different tactics designed to put on a show of force--being there, being part of the community, getting to be known by business owners, more community contacts, etc.

Unfortunately, that does NOT help to a great extent.

Crime does decrease in areas where police presence is maintained--but that is mostly due to the deterrence value of the uniformed officer. When that officer leaves the area--as he or she must on occasion--criminals are free to work at will.

And, there is also the chance of the major incident that occurs that will draw law enforcement resources from the area--and don't believe for a second that the savvy criminal will not take advantage.

This leads to your statement. Police work is by its nature, reactive. This means simply that I don't get the call until YOU diall 911. And, when are you going to dial 911?

Most of the time, it's AFTER the incident has occurred. There are a few times that 911 is called prior to an incident occurring--that's when you get those hair-on-the-back-of-the-neck-standingup-ohmygosh-whatwasthatshadowoutside-there'sathumpatthebackdoor-moments. Believe me, we LOVE those calls. It gives us the chance to actually do the "Protect" part of Serve and Protect.

We get a call of a crime in progress, or a prowler call, of something to that effect, we drop everything and try our level best to find out just how fast a CVPI can run. And, sometimes, those stories have decent endings.

Tacoma Police responded to a call of a woman screaming near a wooded area. They responded post haste and deployed K9--who found a rape in progress. The puppy got to play! The puppy took a good chunk from the rapist's butt, too.

I saw the perp while I was booking someone into Pierce County Jail on an unrelated charge. He looked somewhat dimished because there was a big pressure dressing on his butt and about six big beefy cops staring at him like he was a piece of meat. If he had twitched wrong, he would have been pounded into meatloaf. (Did I mention that cops hate rapists? :evil: )

In another one that just happened, Kent PD got a call. They heard a woman say, "Please don't hurt me"; she then told dispatch that she was not free to talk. Police responded--and again interrupted a rape in progress.

Unfortunately, we can't be there all the time. I wish I could--I would gladly give up any off time I have, any sleep I might get--heck, I'd even skip eating if I could constantly respond BEFORE someone gets victimized.

But I can't. No one can.

Which is why the best approach to take is to protect yourself and your family.

Forget pepper spray. It works sometime, but other times it doesn't.
Don't carry knives as a primary weapon unless you are willing to spend some serious time training. Serious as in at least 6 days a week, a couple of hours or more a day.

So, what do you do? Get some good instruction, some training, and know the laws in your area.

Then, procure some iron. The brand is irrelevant, as long as it is serviceable, reliable, reasonably accurate and as long as it fits you well.

Perhaps ein gut Deutsche pistolen: Heckler und Koch, Walther, Korth, SIG/Sauer, perhaps even Luger, or Mauser;

Favor something from Austria? A gentleman named Glock might have something that fits well;

If you favor the Mediterranean, perhaps the oldest gunmaker in the world, Pietro Beretta, might have something that interests you.

If your tastes are similar to those of our Canadian brothers, there's Para-Ordnance.

Or, you might be a traditionalist. Stuff some good American iron in that holster: Colt, Smith and Wesson, Ruger, Taurus, whatever you feel good with.

A very wise person once said, "No one ever raped a .38." I tend to agree with them.

Read my signature line. It's a somewhat paraphrased copy of a line that is attributed to be the Colt motto.

Above all, be safe. Call us when you need to--but be prepared in any case to defend yourself and your loved ones.

[Hot brass]

Some items were stolen from my wifes vehicle and I called the cops. I had on a jacket and was armed. As the cop was going through the car and I am getting hot with the jacket on, I informed the officer that I am a CCW holder and have the arm on me as we speak and did not want him to see the arm and get excited. He said don`t worry about it. :what: I was breathless.

[KAR120C]

OK, I'll go against the tide here. I don't have the statistic at hand, but I'm pretty sure I've seen where it is actually more dangerous (on a per capita basis) in rural areas than in the big city. There may be more criminals in the city, but as a potential victim you are also hiding in a bigger heard. Many people tend to over estimate how safe they are in the country.

Having said that... I would never advocate not carrying in the city because there are more cops around. Bad things can happen anywhere. Be prepared.

[Valkman]

Spend some time in Vegas and you won't think big cities are so safe. Armed is the only way I go out, as no police are going to stop the robberies and car jackings that go on here. Their only job is to write the report afterwards.

The police here are always understaffed and underpaid - everyone knows you can speed around everywhere with little chance of being stopped. They've take to ganging up on a major intersection and working it with 10 or 12 officers for a day because they just can't cover the whole area.

[Strings]

>The puppy took a good chunk from the rapist's butt, too.<

Powderman: if you PM me with a contact addy, I'll happily send a bit of cash to provide that dog with a steak for a job well done! BRAVO!

[pete f]

there are also issues of traffic and congestion, in rural areas, 30 miles does not mean 30 minutes, sometimes it means 15 minutes. I have to say that in the cities, 2 miles may mean 10 minutes, maybe more? I have to say that I have spent lots of time in Farm land...no real crime occuring out there, but once i got to smaller townes, a lot of crime was going on, maybe more than in a city, at leasat more noticable, small petty theft, drug and alchohol issues, and now lots of meth. In the big cities, lots of property crimes, lots of criminals walking on the edge of society, murder is part of the drug business. That is something people forget. when you take away drugs, usually crime drops way down...

[mountainclmbr]

A big city offers anonynimity to professional crooks. That is why they go there.

[MachIVshooter]

OK, I'll go against the tide here. I don't have the statistic at hand, but I'm pretty sure I've seen where it is actually more dangerous (on a per capita basis) in rural areas than in the big city. There may be more criminals in the city, but as a potential victim you are also hiding in a bigger heard. Many people tend to over estimate how safe they are in the country.



If you get bored, do a search for Homicides, abductions and rapes in Elbert County, Colorado. Good luck!

FYI, the current population density is roughly 11 people/square mile.