Food for survival

[redneck2]

This may have been covered, but I couldn't find it with a search.

I was one of the guys that thought the SHTF threads were an offshoot of too many sci-fi movies. After reading Preacherman's threads I have altered my thinking.

I think the chances of us having to relocate from my home are rather remote. I live in the country over 30 miles from the largest urban area. We are as earthquake/tidal wave/hurricane free as you can get. Biggest natural disaster would be tornados, and there you've got just a few minutes

The situation most likely would be either loss of utilities (my friend lost power for 11 days during an ice storm), bird flu outbreak, or WMD SHTF

What I'm looking at is long term food storage. I've got a basement area that's on concrete and is warm, dry, and very hidden. What foodstuffs should I acquire a little at a time that I could store long term and not have go bad??? My wife is a real packrat on typical everyday supplies so we've got the medical thing covered, and I probably have 5k + rounds of ammo at any one time plus the ability to reload thousands more.

If this has been addressed, please link...thanks

[1 old 0311]

Caned meats, fruits, and vegies. You can get them on sale slowly and rotate them into your normal diet. Don't forget vitimans.

Kevin

[JamisJockey]

http://search.yahoo.com/search?p=long+term+food+storage&rs=2&ei=UTF-8&fr=ush1-mail

[Podster]

Beware! 30 miles from the nearest urban area is NOT far enough. We are 150 from an urban area and the hurricane evacuation proved that! As many in our area were off the grid for up to 3 weeks, this is fresh on my mind. The hurricane evacuees wiped out the groceries/gas. When you grocery shop, buy what you normally eat, but buy two. Better yet when on sale, buy more. Look for small containers, may be more pricey but you won't have adequate storage for leftovers. You are fortunate to have a great place for storage. When you eat (what you normally eat) rotate your stock. Shop with your wife and sample new things that would work for storage. Canned is preferable because it uses less water but dried like gravy mixes (can be diluted with the canned vegie water) or other seasoning packages make food taste better. Prepackaged servings of oatmeal in flavors dilute easily and can be eaten without milk if needed. Don't forget seasonings too. And I agree ~ VITAMINS. In times of stress, you don't want to get run down. You also don't want to learn to eat new foods at that time. Purchasing a few extras as you shop also won't draw attention to food hoarding. Good thoughts for self survival, it should make us all think.....Good luck!

[Dave Markowitz]

If you have the space, it would be a good idea to start a garden to supplement what you buy at the store.

[rick_reno]

Mayonaise. You don't need anything else.

[Lee Lapin]

If you are serious about this, go to http://athagan.members.atlantic.net/PFSFAQ/PFSFAQ-1.html . That should cover it for you.

lpl/nc

[hso]

What you want is cool, dark, dry instead of warm, dark, dry.

Canned goods, powdered milk, 5 gallon water carboys. Focus on what you currently eat.

The advice to buy a little extra in the canned goods section with each visit to the grocery store is good advice if you don't want to get everything in one expensive trip. If you do want to buy everything at once you should look for wholesale food suppliers in your region and contact them about buying multiple cases of canned goods. This can save some of the total cash outlay that buying a little at a time represents.

The Prudent Pantry link is an excellent resource.

[benEzra]

Ramen noodles!!!

I survived 4 years of college on Ramen noodles, I know it can be done!! :D

[redneck2]

What you want is cool, dark, dry instead of warm, dark, dry.

Probably didn't state this well. I meant "warm" as in not freezing. It's a basement/crawl space that's maybe 60 year-round

Since it's semi-difficult to access, I'm looking for something that could be stored long term...maybe a year or two, maybe five or longer

haven't checked the links yet but I'm doing that right now. I appreciate the info..thanks

[Blue Line]

maybe MRE's for that type of long term storage.

[redneck2]

Actually, I had kinda thought of MRE's. Stashed out of the way. Long, long term storage

Anybody have an idea of the shelf life of an MRE??

[losangeles]

MREs go about 5 years from the time they were packaged. Problem is you don't always know when they were packaged and you can have problems with dishonest vendors making claims falsely.

For my stash, I have canned foods as my primary source. Recommended expirations are stamped on the cans, and depending on the product can be quite a few years; also, canned foods are edible well after the expiration although they might lose taste.

Then, I have MREs as a secondary if I use up my primary, and also if I need to be mobile in a disaster situation.

Next, I have some high-calorie food bars that'll last the family a few days in a mobile situation -- if the MREs run out. And finally, I have food tabs for the final backup.

[karlsgunbunker]

http://www.quakekare.com/index.asp?PageAction=VIEWCATS&Category=7

http://www.longlifefood.com/

http://www.survivaly2k.com/index.htm

http://beprepared.com/

http://waltonfeed.com/

http://www.survival-center.com/index.htm

http://www.majorsurplusnsurvival.com/

[rustymaggot]

ramen is good because it can be softened with plain water and does not need to be cooked(compared to rice, that will never get soft with just soaking). peanut butter is great cause its high calories and peanut butter stays good for 10 years!!!! heck, even opened jar of skippy stays good for 3 years unrefrigerated. peanutbutter and crackers. ramen with peanutbutter isnt as bad as you might think. dripbble a bit of honey in that and your good to eat. i store bulk things like powdered milk, rice, ramen, oatmeal, sugar, powdered mash potatoes, vitamins ect

my favorite canned soup is the campbels brand with the pull tabs. select brand i believe. tastes better than all other types ive tried withour heating. tastes even better when heated but it isnt needed.

[Nematocyst]

I was one of the guys that thought the SHTF threads were an offshoot of too many sci-fi movies. After reading Preacherman's threads I have altered my thinking.

I think the chances of us having to relocate from my home are rather remote. I live in the country over 30 miles from the largest urban area. We are as earthquake/tidal wave/hurricane free as you can get. Biggest natural disaster would be tornados, and there you've got just a few minutes

The situation most likely would be either loss of utilities (my friend lost power for 11 days during an ice storm), bird flu outbreak, or WMD SHTF Redneck, good thread. Fits with several other relevant ones going on now, including one I started a while back about shelters for extended (> 1 month) SHTF adventures (http://www.thehighroad.org/showthread.php?t=162559).

There is a wealth of good reading offered already (the Prudent Pantry site looks very well done; bookmarked; look forward to reading more) so I'll not add more on food just now.

And, I won't hijack your thread with discussions/arguments about other SHTF scenarios that could ruin your day, but will suggest that there are potentially two other scenarios that may affect all of us, regardless of where we live, and make this thread all the more relevant.

They are 2) climate change (cause - human or not - doesn't matter and is irrelevant to the reality that it IS occuring) and 2) the peak oil issue (http://www.lifeaftertheoilcrash.net/index.html) (NOT that we are running out of oil, but that demand is now outstripping supply, prices are increasing in an accelerating way in a civilization driven by oil, threatening to cause a phase transition into socioeconomic collapse {read SHTF/TEOTWAWKI}.

I'm not arguing either is a "correct" view. I believe that each of us must learn what we can about those and other scenarios (hurricanes, tornadoes, earthquakes, social stability, bird flu, etc) and make up our own minds about their potential, and what strategies we are going to adopt to plan for surviving them.

The events discussed in Preacherman's threads (and others) on THR have opened many eyes.

We'd be total fools with no one to blame but ourselves if we find ourselves unprepared for SHTF scenarios, and would be utterly stupid to believe that FEMA will save us if they occur.

I'll be reading this thread. Thanks for starting it.

Nem

[david_the_greek]

A little info on the MRE production dates. There should be a number stamped on the packaging, 8042 B02A, the B02A is the lot number and can be ignored. the first numbers break down like this: 8 refers to the last digit of the year of the production, in this case 1998, the 42 refers to the day of the year, february 13 (i think....). If there are no numbers you should probably look around. getting 50 MREs for $100 bucks would be great untill you found out they expired 5 years before a pesky earthquake or "disaster" hit you. For real long term storage MREs are a bit pricey but they really pretty good tasting. Go to a recruiter and ask to sample some, chances are they won't care and they'll give you a couple and you can throw'em in the car or go hunting. I asked and got 8, ($42-56 worth of new production, tasty and filling MREs)

[CoachVince]

Since it's semi-difficult to access, I'm looking for something that could be stored long term...maybe a year or two, maybe five or longer
I just bought a few cans at Aldi (discount market) of various substances, IIRC the canned corned beef (not corned beef hash) was marked good til sometime in 2010. White rice (NOT brown, unfortunately) is good for 8 to 10 years in good conditions; freeeze it first, and put some bay leaves at the top. I'm storing mine in well-rinsed cat litter containers (unscented cat litter, by the way). I can fit a 50 lb. bag of rice in 2 18 to 20 lb. cat litter bins (the hard white plastic square buckets).
Many of the other items were good for 3 to 5 years. Generally, your tomato products expire earliest, or anything else with lots of acid. If you look for those items, try to get them in glass, not cans; they occasionally rust through the cans over time.
Store some vitamins down there, too; a multi and C would be the minimum, unless someone you know may be pregnant during the S hitting the F; then you'll need a bit more. You'll want plenty of cleaning/sterilizing stuff too, but household bleach goes a long way. If you're already the type that buys a few packs of TP, soap, or whatever when they're on sale, buy 1 more each time, and put it away. If you're concerned about sterilizing water, I was involved with a thread HERE...
http://www.homesteadingtoday.com/showthread.php?t=102931
But I'm still looking for more convenient ways to store it.

Many people forget little conveniences, too. Powdered drink mixes can make drinking water a little easier for those who aren't used to it (though we all know we should). Coffee is great, even instant. You'll find that those who drink cola constantly will function better with a caffeine fix. Powdered milk keeps well, but the boxed milk (Parmalat, Borden) is closer to the "real" thing, though more expensive. Hard candy is good for calories and treats for young'uns.

Everyday supplies can be stored there, too-
I mentioned cleaning productsa above, but things like trash bags, pet food, dish detergent, etc. There's lots more, but the idea is to think about things you need, and things you enjoy. Put in ALL of the first, and what you can afford to of the second.
For awhile the emphasis has been on bugging out, not sheltering in place, so this is a nice little change.

Oh, almost forgot- lots of GOOD HAND-POWERED can openers!!! :D

[Nitram68]

I recently bought a few cases of #10 cans of mountain house which claims a 30 year self life... This will be my core emergency food stash with the balance being the 2-3 weeks canned foods/top raman/lipton noodles and rice, pasta and beans in the pantry. I haven't ever sat down to calculate how long all my food would feed my family but it must be 90 days or more...

[Moondoggie]

Frugal Squirrel's forums is chock full of info about survival and disaster preparedness. All the info you could ever need is there.

[M-Rex]

Canned foods and rice were always a staple in my dad's kit.

[Shadizar]

This place has a good selection and low cost shipping.

http://www.store.honeyvillegrain.com/

I can't afford to stock up much now, but when I can that place will be getting a lot of business from me :)

-Shadizar

[NMshooter]

For the do it yourself folks:

Anzac Bikkies

Ingredients:
1 cup rolled oats
1/2 cup sugar
3/4 cup flour
1 tablespoon golden syrup (a heavy syrup from down under) Karo might be used in the States
1 teaspoon bicarbonate of soda
2 tablespoon boiling water
1/2 cup butter; melted

Instructions:
Set oven to 160C (325F). Mix oats, sugar and flour.
Mix golden syrup, soda and boiling water. While
frothing, add melted butter and pour in dry ingredients.
Mix thoroughly. Drop by spoonfuls on floured oven
tray (cookie sheet), allowing room for mixture to
spread. Bake 18 - 20 minutes. Cool on wire rack.
Makes 36 biscuits.
Per serving: 1039 Calories (kcal); 6g Total Fat; (5% calories from fat);
23g Protein; 226g Carbohydrate; 0mg Cholesterol; 7mg Sodium
Food Exchanges: 8 Grain (Starch); 0 Lean Meat; 0 Vegetable; 0 Fruit; 1 Fat;
6 1/2 Other Carbohydrates

Hudson Bay Bread
Ingredients:
• 1 Cup butter, softened
• 1 Cup of sugar
• 3 Tablespoons light corn syrup (or a little more)
• 3 Tablespoons of honey (or a little more)
• 1/2 Teaspoon vanilla
• 9 1/2 Cups finely ground rolled oats (I can only get about 6-7 cups in, it gets too hard to mix)
• 1/2 Cup sliced almonds (I never use 'em)
Serves: 6
This was a European staple before workers of the Hudson Bay Company packed it along on beaver-trapping excursions into what is now the American West. No light snack, this early energy bar reportedly stoked the metabolic fires of Sir Edmund Hillary as he ascended Everest.
At Home: Cream together the butter, sugar, syrup, honey, and vanilla. Grind the oats using a food processor or coffee grinder, and then slowly stir in the almonds and oats. Press it all into a 13 x 9-inch pan. Bake at 325:F for 15 to 20 minutes. Don't overcook; it crumbles. As soon as you remove it from the oven, press the mix firmly with a spatula (VERY Important). Cut into squares and let cool in the pan.

Army Hardtack (cracker) Recipe

aka "Teeth Dullers", "Sheet Iron", "Flour Tile", "Hard Bread".

Ingredients:

4 cups flour (perferably whole wheat)
4 teaspoons salt
Water (about 2 cups)
Pre-heat oven to 375 degrees F
Makes about 10 pieces

Mix flour and salt together in a bowl. Add just enough water (less than two cups) to make the mixture stick together. This will produce a dough that will not stick to
hands, rolling pin or pan. The dough will have to be mixed by hand. Roll the dough out and shape it into a rough rectangle. Cut into the dough into squares about 3
X 3 inches and 1/2 inch thick.

After cutting, press into each square a pattern of four rows of four holes using a nail (a Philips screwdriver makes an interesting pattern). (Note: just 'press' into the
dough, don't punch through it. The appearance is similar to a modern saltine cracker.) Turn each square over and repeat.

Place on an ungreased cookie sheet in the oven and bake for 30 minutes. Turn each piece over and bake for another 30 minutes. The crackers should be slighthly
brown on both sides.

When fresh the crackers are rather easily broken, but as they dry and harden they assume the consistentency of fired brick.

Hardtack crackers were a main staple of middle and late 19th century soldiers, though not a favorite. Most commonally associated with Civil War soldiers,
hardtack was used well toward the end of the century. Usually reserved for issue to troops on the march or in the field, hardtack generally required some 'spicing'
up to make it edible; particularly if the crackers were old or insect infested, as was frequently the case. Crackers produced in 1863 were being issued as late as
1890, moldly and full of bugs.

Soldiers had a number of methods for fixing hardtack, depending on what they had on hand. These included:

Eating plain.
Breaking up the crackers in a pot of coffee.
Breaking up the crackers in a soup or stew (as a thickening agent).
Toasting a cracker over a fire and buttered.
Soaking in cold water, browning in salt pork fat, then salting to taste.
Soaking in condensed milk to make milk toast.
Soaking in water, frying in salt pork fat, and topping with sugar.
Crumbling crackers, mixing with bacon, rasins, and boiling in condensed milk.

Does your taste lean more to the southern side? Then try a "johnnie cake" that the Confederate soldiers enjoyed with their meals. The recipe is also very simple:

two cups of cornmeal
2/3 cup of milk
2 tablespoons vegetable oil
2 teaspoon baking soda
1/2 teaspoon of salt

Mix ingredients into a stiff batter and form eight biscuit-sized "dodgers". Bake on a lightly greased sheet at 350 degrees for twenty to twenty five minutes or until brown. Or spoon the batter into hot cooking oil in a frying pan over a low flame. Remove the corn dodgers and let cool on a paper towel, spread with a little butter or molasses, and you have a real southern treat!

I am planning on cooking up batches of each of these, but have not tried any yet.

[redneck2]

Man, this is what I was looking for. Thanks guys

[kevin387]

Nobody has mentioned of the most important staples of any food storage program..................................spam! People knock it but it really is good and lasts darn near forever. Add in some other canned meats such as tuna or corn beef, rice, beans, dehydrated or (better tasting/more expensive) freeze dried foods, pasta, peanut butter. Don't forget plenty of water.
The interner grocer has some canned cheese that is good and will also last.
I'll second looking at Frugal Squirrels for a ton of good info.

[Nematocyst]

Nobody has mentioned of the most important staples of any food storage program..................................spam! I'll sheepishly confess to having a can or two in my camp box. I won't touch the stuff at home, but in the camp, after a few day of camp food, it actually becomes more ... interesting. :rolleyes:

I need to spend some time on Frugal Squirrel's thread. Haven't been there yet.

Since Shooter mentioned do-it-yerselfing, it reminded me of my favorite do-it-yerself backpacking cookbook: The Well Fed Backpacker (http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg/detail/-/0394738047/002-1618082-0464064?v=glance).

It's truly excellent. I've used it for about a decade and a half to make all my backpacking food. WAY cheaper & WAY better than any of that freeze dried cardboard crap, and you can make virtually any recipe in the book from off the shelf grocery items. You prepackage all the recipes in baggies at home, measured out, then just dump them in the boiling water at camp. Easy, delicious. (Well, again, nothing I'd necessarily fix at home, but on the trail, let alone a bugout, they'd be great.

One of my fav recipes is called Cheesy BacoSpuds: basically potato flakes, butter buds, some onion flakes, powdered milk, and parmesian cheese...a couple of other things I can't remember now. Mix into a single baggie.

In camp, just add to boiling water, let sit for 2 minutes, and bingo, big quick hearty dinner.

We always make up three of them for a 5 day trip. One for the first night at the end of 5 miles of switchbacks when we're to tired to cook anything else and just want a heap of calories. One for the last night when we just want to get out an eat burgers (it's fast), and one for the end of a rainy day, when everything is soaking wet, and we just want to eat and crawl in the bag.

Nem

[rustymaggot]

mountain house brand foods do stay good for 20 plus years. i had one from 1983 last week and it wasnt bad at all.

[DesertEagle613]

I don't know how easy it is to get in Indiana, but just as a general note, consider Matza (i.e. unleavened bread for Passover). This is not a joke.

The stuff cannot go stale, it has expiration dates measured in geological periods, and you can usually get tons of it cheaply around holiday time.

The only drawback is that it will constipate you something fierce...

[Nematocyst]

... consider Matza (i.e. unleavened bread for Passover)....The only drawback is that it will constipate you something fierce... That's what beans are for.

Add lots of greens (turnip, kake, spinach, dandilion, etc) to avoid the constipation.

The herbivores learned that millions of years ago.

But now we've got meat (including prime rib & BBQ), wheat (including matza & pasta), rice, polenta.

It's only when our diets become only meat, wheat, rice & polenta that constipation occurs.

Add those fiber components, and it's all good.

Matza, eh? Ok, I'll look into it.

Got a source?

Nem

[DesertEagle613]

Personal experience :D

I should say that I don't know for certain how long it will keep. But in my family we routinely use 1-year-old matza (we swap out every year for the holiday, so no older than that) for cooking, and you cannot tell the difference between that and new stuff.

We also sometimes use it for backpacking food.

[Davo]

This stuff is used by body builders, and has a decent shelf life. Seems like an adjunt to peanut butter. Also its very light, just add water and drink. Also It comes in sealed containers, and prove useful for storage afterwards also. You can also get the stuff in bulk, unflavored but very cheap protein.

[Nematocyst]

Personal experience :D Oh, sorry, DesertEagle, I didn't mean I was questioning your comment by asking for a source. What I meant was, a source for either a recipe or for purchasing it.

I plead ignorance about matza. Does one buy it, or make it? (Guess i could just google it to find out....)

Davo, that's an interesting idea about the protein powder. Never even considered that for backpacking before. Makes sense.

Probably not the most delicious stuff around (not as good as venison or squirrel stew), but would do the job in a pinch.

Nem

[Cosmoline]

For your starches, the ultimate survival food is of course Sailor Boy pilot bread, but it's tough to find outside of Alaska. Ramen is a second choice. Ramen with pilot bread in it and chunks of spam added is ideal.

[scotjute]

Matzo are typically available in larger grocery stores around the time of Easter or Passover in the spring.

[texascarl]

A bump because officials are recommending today that everyone buy a few extra cans of Tuna, a box of powdered milk now and 'store them under your bed' in preparation for the bird flu. There's really no good way to prevent an avian flu pandemic since birds can fly in and out as they please, but planning to survive the 'downtime' that could happen if 50% of the population 'calls in sick' for a few weeks is worth our time. Think what might be affected, including trucking/fresh food supplies, electricity? Water supply?. A quick review of the info in this thread and a good time to check your BOB equipment for fresh batteries, candles, freshen your stored water, etc.

[Tokugawa]

While I totally agree on being prepared , it is sort of funny that we are discussing things that 100 years ago were everyday standard practice. I still remember grandmothers root celler, shelves of home canned foods, etc. If we ever do have a wide spread SHTF event, I fear our society have tossed away about 40,000 years of very practical info. I mean, half the people I know can't even sharpen a knife.

[perpster]

What?! They ignored Desert Eagle and didn't recommend throwing matza under the bed too?? And with Easter/Passover just around the corner? Dang!

[ball3006]

junkies. We buy any 2 quart blue BALL canning jar we come across under 3 bucks. We put dry goods in the jars and are sealed with new rubber rings from Lehman's. Nothing will get into them. We have all of our food stuff at camp stored in these jars. We also use them at home too. Quite attractive on the counter. Beans and rice can be had from Sam's or Costco in 50 lb bags. Spam and other canned meats are sold in multi packs cheaper than any store. If you have an oriental food store near you, they have dried soup mixes that make Rahamen taste like crap. Big selection of noodles and rice too......chris3

[IllHunter]

I can't believe nobody else stashes honey. The only food that keeps forever without refrigeration ofter opening and is great alone or with anything . Definately a winner, Matzoh, peanut butter and honey.

[Thin Black Line]

Store what you eat and eat what you store.

Those of you who think you will subsist long-term on Ramen noodles
will have your remaining supplies of food and ammo relieved from
your possession as you will be too emaciated to ever pull a trigger
to stop it. :neener:

[Ares45]

Everything you ever wanted to know about MRE's =
http://www.mreinfo.com/

[Nematocyst]

If we ever do have a wide spread SHTF event, I fear our society have tossed away about 40,000 years of very practical info. I mean, half the people I know can't even sharpen a knife.Oh, not to worry.

During a SHTF event, everyone will just be able to run over to the local TacoBurgerKFC and score some chicken mc-tacos w/ a side of fries.

What? The TBKFC was destroyed in the tornado/food riot?

OMG. What do we do now?

"Honey, I can't find a can opener for this can of spam. And this plastic bag of bread is moldy. I'm hungry."

[wheelgunslinger]

good link for the mreinfo site. MRE's are not the best extended term solution. They can cause damage to your digestive tract that will permanently impair your ability to process food. So, be wary of letting your stock consist of any one thing.


Another thing that I haven't seen mentioned is flower pot gardening. If you live in an area where you can't plant a big garden, but want to grow and can your own food, several staple veggies are easily grown in pots around the house. These veggies can be canned and put away easily. Meats can also be canned at home if you are a hunter, or have access to raw meat you'd like to can.

Legislation to allow Monosodium Glutamate in canned food in a much more broad scope than previously allowed has instant soups and a LOT of canned foods holding this stuff. MSG is one of those chemicals you can do without should you be living on this stuff for an extended period. So, you may want to turn the cans around and read the ingredients before you make it your primary source of food. Organic canned goods are usually a good bet.

Don't leave out multivitamins, herbs, and pure protein sources like whey and egg protein powders, either. After all, you can't forget that you may get sick while this scenario is going on and its possible that you can't get to a drug store to buy sudafed or Ny-Quil. So, learning a few herbal remedies to common colds, rashes, sores, cuts, and such may not be a bad idea.

[LAK]

Dried meat (Jerky), dried fruit, nuts. Rice, pasta, oatmeal etc. Canned sardines, canned vegetables, canned fruit in juice, etc. Canned cream. Coffee, tea etc. Liquor, cigars and or cigarettes, chocolate etc. Vitamins; multi, extra Vit C, Bs, etc.

Some of these items are best kept as a rotated supply - use one off the end of the shelf, buy one and stack it at the beginning of the shelf, etc.
---------------------------------------------

http://ussliberty.org
http://ssunitedstates.org

[CoachVince]

Also powdered drink mixes, if you or members of your family don't usually like drinking "plain" water. Hot chocolate, TP, baby wipes, 5 gallon bucket (for "sanitary" needs). Vitamins, as mentioned, are a VERY good idea. Someone mentioned protein powder; you could probably mix that w/ powdered milk and make a survival ration easily. Assume that utilities may be intermittent due to "sick-outs"; either people will BE sick, and not come in, or not want to GET sick, and avoid leaving home. While our world may not implode, the usual cycle of break-down and repair may be halted, meaning anything that breaks down doesn't get fixed. This would be a gradual process, that would mean store shelves might not be restocked as often , due to slow deliverires and factories/plants on reduced work schedules.
Also, anticipate the possibility that chicken will be in VERY short supply soon; take a look at the numbers of birds being killed overseas. If you or a member of your family has an extremely strong preference for chicken, wean them off it NOW. You could also try stocking up on canned chicken at ALDI, Costco, etc.
My wife has overheard co-workers talking about this; asking just what you could possibly need. She, having discussed such things with me, didn't say much, just asked people things in response to what they offered.
Things like having 1 gal. per person, per day of water, is seen as ridiculous for a 3 DAY EVENT. They can't even see that a water main break could cause this in their neighborhood. Having batteries on hand is foolish because it's not like the flu can make power go out.
One of the single gals says Spaghettios(TM?) and a can opener are all you need to be fine. At least she thought of the can opener, but "fine"? Not in my book. I know I can do a lot better, even without being prepared how and where I'd like to be (i.e., out of NJ).

For my overall view, check my sig. It's "borrowed" from an LDS newsletter (I'm not LDS, but respect their ways, and those of others who are self-reliant or prepared).

[Spec ops Grunt]

It might help to contact your local botonast and ask what local plants are edible.

[Mannlicher]

Living in Florida, I have learned to prepare for each coming hurricane season. I have a set menu, and buy fresh to fill it each spring. Its just my wife and I, but I buy for three people, since you never know what is going to happen. My menu plan covers three meals a day, plus snacks, water, cleaning and sanitation supplies. I keep stock for a full month, and can go longer if needed. This past season, with Wilma, I was without power for weeks.
After the season, we just eat the stuff, and re stock the next spring.
My supplies are portable, but heavy. If we had to take off, I could bring all of it with me.

[Mannlicher]

Now don't forget, along with the food, you need something to cook with. There are a number of choices, Coleman gas stoves, propane stoves, wood fired, and others. All that pasta and beans takes a LOT of energy to boil the water. A stove and fuel is a vital part of planning for an emergency.

[DontBurnMyFlag]

rice....


if millions upon millions of little tiny asian soldiers can survive for months in the jungle on rice, you can too IF you have to. Im not saying it will be easy, and of course our bodies would have to adjust to the loss of protein and other nutrients, but that can be remedied elsewhere. Huge bags of rice are easy to store, transport and can be quite tasty.

If all else fails, Ive heard only good things about cannabilism. I mean, Im sure if the person being eaten could talk, he would say otherwise. :D

[LAK]

Ah, but remember, many of those hardened fighters had no choice.

Preparing for this kind of thing one has the opportunity to not only make things more pleasant - but give your body (or bodies) the best fighting chance. On a sustantially reduced diet of nutrients vulnerability to disease is increased, while recovery from disease or injury is reduced.

Aside from general health, one of the keys to survival in very harsh conditions is morale. A few niceties can help greatly in this regard, as I am sure many who have been in even a moderately miserable and protracted predicament will agree.

-------------------------------------

http://ussliberty.org
http://ssunitedstates.org

[Nematocyst]

A few niceties can help greatly in this regard, as I am sure many who have been in even a moderately miserable and protracted predicament will agree.One of my most poignant experiences in that regard happened after 7 days in the Weminuche "Wilderness" (500K acres) of S. CO a few years ago.

Six of us backpacked in for those 7 days. Up East Ute Creek on the Rio Grande headwaters to Rio Grande Pyramid (13,288'), over to Rock Lake, then back over the divide to the trailhead.

Second day in, we realized that in six people, NO ONE had packed oil.

We had carbs galore.
Oatmeal, rice, pasta, trail mix, cookies, honey...you name it.

We had protein as beans, rice, meat, canned chicken, jerky.

But we had no oil, no butter, no fat.
None. Nothing. Nada.

By day 3 we were wishing.
By day 5 we were craving.
By day 7 we were crashing.

The first thing we did when we got out,
before buying gas, was to find a hamburger stand
where we gorged ourselves with greasy hamburgers & fries with extra mayo.

That experience, more than any in my life, convinced me to listen to my body for nutrition needs.

If I crave fat, I eat fat.
If I crave meat, I eat meat.
If I crave sugar, I eat sugar.

Nem

[LAK]

Ah yes; oil. I left that out. Olive oil is my favorite, as well as coconut oil, grapeseed etc. The cold-pressed organic variety is best.

I also left out herbs and spices etc. Salt, pepper, cayenne pepper, ground ginger, dried garlic, basil, sage, thyme, rosemary, parsley etc. I am very partial to Coleman's English mustard too.

Something else I forgot was mung beans. These small pea-like beans are very high in calcium and iron. Find them at (East) Indian shops and better supermarkets.
------------------------------------

http://ussliberty.org
http://ssunitedstates.org

[Manedwolf]

You can sometimes get the peanut butter packs for MREs separately. Long shelf life, very portable to stuff in pockets and pouches...and peanut butter is a very very good high-protein, decent calorie survival food that meets needs for salt and fats, too.

As long as you have water! And don't ever, ever, EVER try "shelf-stable bread", unless you want to eat a sponge that smells like cleaning solvent. :barf:

I also get instant "healthy cereal drink" foil packets at an Asian grocery that have a very long shelf life. Add them to hot water, they make a tasty sort of drinkable, thick oatmeal that contains black sesame, mung beans, yams, all sorts of nutritious stuff.

[Thin Black Line]

Nema,

You brought up a good point. And, yes, olive oil is also preferred on my
list.

Americans' fat/oil/meat intake though is way too high to start with.
However, if you go from 150% to 0% in a day, you're gonna hurt!
Better to step down gradually. You do not need meat/fat/oil at every
meal.

[gc67]

I think that beans/rice/pasta are great because of their shelf life, but one thing to keep in mind is they all take a fair amount of water to cook. Water may be something that you really have to ration depending on your location/situation. For things like beans, it is a good idea to do some canning and keep a bunch of canned beans that are ready to eat. You can rotate them out and can new ones every 3 months or so

[Cosmoline]

And don't ever, ever, EVER try "shelf-stable bread", unless you want to eat a sponge that smells like cleaning solvent

The best bet is a genuine pilot bread or a scandinavian crispbread. I've had wheels of knackbrod last many years even after being opened. They're an absolutely excellent source of fiber and carbs in a survival kit. They can also be used to construct a makeshift shelter.

[Dave R]

Ask some Mormons. Our church recommends each member have a years' supply of stored food, and has lots of info and recommendations.

IMHO, the best combination of low cost, long shelf life, and nutrition is canned wheat. You can also "can" it yourself pretty easily. Eat it as a hot cereal, or get a hand mill to grind it and make bread. Practice before TSHTF, of course...

Being from Houston, the rice capital of North America, I also have a fond spot in my heart for storing canned rice. MMMmmmm. Cooked rice with a dab of butter and salt. I could eat it for months...

More data here. http://www.providentliving.org/channel/1,11677,1706-1,00.html

Including a handy "how much to store" calculator.

[Nematocyst]

I think that beans/rice/pasta are great because of their shelf life...I tend to agree.

However, as a guy with an undergrad in entomology (bugs), keep in mind that those stored grains are susceptible to insect pests. After buying your grain (rice, wheat, beans, corn grits...), watch it carefully for a few months. Look for grains that are stuck together. Of course, look for larvae (catepillars) or adult insects in the storage container. First sign of trouble, deal with it.

If you let stored grain insects reproduce in your stores, you'll wind up with a sh***y mess of insects, and very little grain.

That will ruin your day.

Nem

[baz]

Nematocyst-870

But we had no oil, no butter, no fat.
None. Nothing. Nada.

In survival epics, the gun weilding survivalist (to keep this on topic) always stumbles across a bear and kills it for the fat.

Fat is the first thing I take into consideration when putting aside food for any long term disruption in civil order. I have a good supply of lard tucked away. I don't see it on the shelves at the local Kroger's (it is not exactly PC among the heart healthy crowd), but they sell tubs of it at the local Dollar General. I also take the fat content of certain foods into account that I put aside: peanut butter, "bark" candy (doubles as a "comfort" food), canned meats like Treat or Spam, etc.

All the dry goods people put aside for periods of extended food shortage will taste a lot better cooked in, or with, a little lard. While most people get too much fat in the diet today, most people are also too sedentary. In vision of SHTF or TEOTWAWKI people will probably need higher caloric diets than they need now, and will need that fat for the calorie content.

[Nematocyst]

Good points, Baz. I agree.

I'm glad this thread has popped up, and another one on shelters (http://www.thehighroad.org/showthread.php?t=162559) has recently been rebirthed.

There are a few others floating around on THR that have been either neglected or closed (most often for legit reasons, because they had little to do with firearms).

I'm almost finished with my remodeling project from hell ( :banghead: ), and will soon be able to get back around to my preparations for SHTF/TEOTWAWKI type events. Good incentives & advice in these threads towards that end.

Nem

[odysseus]

And don't ever, ever, EVER try "shelf-stable bread", unless you want to eat a sponge that smells like cleaning solvent.

:D Yes I have eaten the MRE shelf-stable bread with the jalepeno "cheese" spread on it. You gotta be real hungry, and after you eat some and swill some water, your stomach knows the of the crime you hath committed. :eek:

[ctdonath]

"Honey, I can't find a can opener for this can of spam. And this plastic bag of bread is moldy. I'm hungry."That is probably the scariest thing I've ever read on THR. Think about it. 250,000,000 people saying essentially that at about the same time ... and the dread that gradually sets in when they realize that's the best they've got for a long time.

This country is so close to outright starvation it's scary.

[Dave R]

This country is so close to outright starvation it's scary.True enough. But those who have actually tried eating dandlions, and cattail tubers, and know how to shoot a squirrel, have a few more options than those who haven't, or don't.

[Manedwolf]

Yes I have eaten the MRE shelf-stable bread with the jalepeno "cheese" spread on it. You gotta be real hungry, and after you eat some and swill some water, your stomach knows the of the crime you hath committed.

Of course, there are worse fates. A roomate in college who was ROTC was out of money, but had some MRE accessories from training left over. So they ate four packages of the crackers.

The result, next day, was a lot of profanity and a pained lament of "I CAN'T GO TO THE BATHROOM!"...

Apparently have that effect..

[Manedwolf]

True enough. But those who have actually tried eating dandlions, and cattail tubers, and know how to shoot a squirrel, have a few more options than those who haven't, or don't.

Until several million residents of nearby urban and suburban sprawls show up in mass exoduses of vehicles full of hungry people...

Unless you're literally in the middle of nowhere, your problem isn't what you can find to eat, it would be the quickly-desparate and utterly helpless hordes of humanity.

Most would be helpless. No prepared food means no concept of what to do at all. Others would become jackals, and try to take from those who had prepared. If you're in range of any large population area, you'd be a target within a week or two, and would have to defend 24/7 and likely expend a lot of ammunition.

Scary thought.

If everything got that bad all of a sudden, if you're in the middle of nowhere, you're better off. If you're in a coastal city, I've always thought your best bet, if you had a strong back, would be to try to sign onto a departing freighter as crew, because cities, lacking any internal food supply, would turn into hellholes veryvery quickly.

[ctdonath]

Cattail tubers. Gack. Edible, yes. Nutritious, yes. Better than a sharp stick in the eye, not sure.
Dandelion greens are sorta like spinach. While you're at it, the flowers can be made into wine and the roots into something like coffee.
Boiled milkweed buds are pretty tasty, esp. with butter.

[Shotgun12]

.... Also, anticipate the possibility that chicken will be in VERY short supply soon; take a look at the numbers of birds being killed overseas.
Might be a good time to "short" Tyson stock .... ;)

Ah yes; oil. I left that out. Olive oil is my favorite, as well as coconut oil, grapeseed etc. The cold-pressed organic variety is best. IIRC, oils don't usually have the shelf-life that Lard (or Crisco) does .... I've heard they tend to go "rancid" quicker than the other stuff. (not sure if this applies to all oils)

It might help to contact your local botanist and ask what local plants are edible.
You might try and find one of these handy little manuals. It has all sorts of info, including sections that identify different types of plants, and wildlife that are edible, have medicinal use, and those to be avoided. (with color photos)
Other subjects include; weather, medical treatment, water & food, shelter, clothing etc. .... tons of good stuff.
37260
If you let stored grain insects reproduce in your stores, you'll wind up with a sh***y mess of insects, and very little grain. You'll still have plenty of grain - but with just a little added "protein". :uhoh: It helps if you freeze any type of grain, for a week or so, before storage. Then package in air-tight containers, and if possible .... store it inside the freezer, if you have the room. That should kill off any "weevils" that tend to invade stores of wheat, corn, rice or products that are made of grain (not sure if they like beans). If you do end up with some of the little critters, (dead or alive) once you open the container, you can either winnow 'em out, or if/when you soak the grain (like rice), they'll float to the surface, to be skimmed, or drained off.
When it comes to corn & wheat, in particular, it's best to store it in its "whole" form - and mill it as you use it, as opposed to milling into flour, or meal - as it will store better (retains its taste & nutritional value longer). In this case, you'd want to "winnow", or air clean it in advance, to remove any bugs & dust, since you'll probably be "dry milling" it .... if so, wouldn't want it wet.
As you can tell .... most of this info is geared towards "buggin' in" - which is what I'd be doing.
I'm sure most people (at least the ones that prepare) will have other less - "bland" food items - canned stuff, that can be mixed with the rice, pasta etc. to "stretch" the supplies. Don't forget the seasonings .... salt - lots of it (it's dirt cheap), I have a good supply of things like dried minced garlic & jalapenos among other things.

One thing that I believe some folks tend to neglect, is a source for "clean" water. Whether you're bugin' in, or out .... get a good water filter (or two). Last thing you'll want to have to contend with, on top of everything else .... is a nasty case of dysentery. Check out both Katadyn or Berkey's products.
*

[itgoesboom]

There's lots of good info here in this thread.

My wife and I have put aside lots of food for ourselves, and we are now setting ourselves up to be able to take in two more people if things get bad. Our goal is 6 months for 4 adults and 1 infant. We are getting pretty close to that goal, but it sure hasn't been easy.

Rice and beans are obvious. Pasta is in the plans too. Oatmeal is good, especially for those of us that have gluten allergies (like me). Vitamins are a must. Canned beans, soups, stews, fruits and veggis, are all in there too.

In addition, lots of spices, brown sugar, sugar, flour, maple syrup, peanut butter and honey are on the list as well.

If the bird flu really started to hit, in the first few days I would take all the meat in the freezer and make jerky out of it (got one batch marinating right now in fact). I would end up with somewhere around 20+lbs of jerky right now. :p

Having a couple different ways of cooking the food would be a good idea too. Propane BBQ would work, as would a camp stove. We have the BBQ, plus a small cartridge camp stove, and a larger dual fuel camp stove, it uses coleman fuel or unleaded gas.

I know I sure don't want to be at Wal-Mart the day that it's announced that a H2H transmission of H5N1 has occured in the USA. :what:

I.G.B.

[Davo]

Ive heard the goverment is advising to have a 6 week supply of food on hand. Funny thing is those that think of guys like us as "paranoid" will now seek our aid.

[itgoesboom]

Ive heard the goverment is advising to have a 6 week supply of food on hand. Funny thing is those that think of guys like us as "paranoid" will now seek our aid.

Probably be a little too late for them. :o A lifeboat built for 5 will sink under the weight of 15.

Besides, they have access to the exact same information that we have access to, they just aren't choosing to act on it.

I.G.B.

[Thin Black Line]

Look for grains that are stuck together. Of course, look for larvae (catepillars) or adult insects in the storage container. First sign of trouble, deal with it.

(TBL shrugs shoulders as he begins boiling water) Yeah, just pick them
out and cook the food. Nobody will notice....:cool:

Yes I have eaten the MRE shelf-stable bread with the jalepeno "cheese" spread on it. You gotta be real hungry, and after you eat some and swill some water, your stomach knows the of the crime you hath committed.

The Jale cheese and tobasco are in the MREs in case you're constipated.
Then again, it might be the bread that caused the stoppage to being
with :eek:

[Optical Serenity]

Excellent thread.

Right now I keep the following in my Maxpedition Jumbo Fatboy (man purse)...mind you, this is a shoulder carried bag, not a B.O.B.:

-Two tea bags
-waterproof match holder filled with 16 packets of Splenda, at 0.035oz each, that is approximately 0.56oz of Splenda.
-Tuna packet, 7.06oz, good for two years
-water purification tablets
-Cliff bar

I also have two P-38 can openers (in case one breaks or I need to give away one), plenty of fire starter materials, a collapsable cup, several coffee water filters, and several zip lock mini bags, several hand warmers for heat production alternative.

[Nematocyst]

OS, I agree that this is an excellent thread.

Given that I live in a much more northerly latitude than you, with a large elevation gradients to my east and west, my BOB has a bit more in it than yours (even while I understand and honor your minimalist strategy).

* 2 L water
* Pur water filter
* Lots of carbos, both simple & complex
* that can of tuna + 2
* cooking oil (which can be imbibbed without cooking to meet lipid requirements)
* minimal first aid kit
* extra fleece layers
* rain gear
* closed cell foam to sleep on
* guns: 9mm pistol; 12 ga riot gun with sling
* other items, depending on season, including small tent

It's cold and wet up here all year round, let alone in January.

YMMV

Nem

[Jeff White]

NineseveN has a new Survival and Preparedness forum.

http://www.neardeathexperiments.com

This will be on topic there.

Jeff