[Jeff White]

Looks like we've got them on the run. Keep up the fire Illinios Members...

Larry Trent; Did master say bark?

http://www.stltoday.com/stltoday/news/stories.nsf/illinoisstatenews/story/4DA7DC61AF04977A862570AD0018FD4F?OpenDocument
Illinois' top police officer condemns effort to ease gun laws
By Kevin McDermott
POST-DISPATCH SPRINGFIELD BUREAU
11/01/2005

SPRINGFIELD, ILL.

Effective gun control in Illinois is "hanging by a thread" because of pro-gun lobbyists and their Republican and downstate Democratic allies in Springfield, the state's top police official said Tuesday.

Appearing at a news conference with gun control advocates and others, Illinois State Police Director Larry Trent aimed a message at state legislators who return to Springfield today: Rolling back existing gun control laws is tantamount to siding with criminals.

"There really isn't any middle ground . . . you either stand with the gun lobby or you stand with law enforcement," said Trent, imploring legislators to oppose three bills that would loosen gun restrictions.

The Legislature this week is on the verge of enacting at least one of those bills - and conceivably all three - over Gov. Rod Blagojevich's opposition.

Trent said that would compromise public safety for the sake of "the wishes of a few gun enthusiasts."

"(The proposals) endanger the lives of law enforcement officers, period," Trent said.

A leading pro-gun legislator dismissed that allegation as "a last-ditch scare tactic" to derail a major pro-gun victory this week.

"I believe we're winning this. That's why they're out there doing this," said state Rep. Brandon Phelps, D-Norris City, who will lead one of the attempts to override a Blagojevich gun veto as early as today.

The bills in question would loosen gun laws, making it easier to trade and transport guns and harder for authorities to track them. Blagojevich, a Democrat, vetoed the three bills this year. This is the final week of Illinois' annual "veto session," the last chance for supporters of those measure to attempt to override Blagojevich with a three-fifths majority to enact the bills over his opposition.

The Senate last week voted to override Blagojevich and enact the bill to stop local communities from restricting transportation of firearms within their boundaries. The House could consider that veto as early as today, with 71 votes needed to override. That bill originally passed the House last May by 79-36 vote - meaning gun control advocates need to get eight of those who voted "yes" to change sides and decline to override Blagojevich's veto.

As is usually the case on gun control debates, Southern Illinois Democrats, including most Metro East legislators, have sided against their Chicago-based Democratic leaders.

One administration official indicated on Tuesday that Blagojevich - who is personally calling key lawmakers this week to press them on the issue - won't try to press those downstate Democrats into siding with him. Instead, he will focus on trying to persuade a handful of Chicago Democrats who previously supported the pro-gun measure not to override his veto.

"Some of these guys (downstate Democrats) are in some really difficult districts" on the gun control issue, said the official, who spoke on the condition of anonymity. "For the most part, they aren't the guys you can go to to try and turn them. It would damage them in the long run."

State law says guns can be transported in cars if they are either locked out of reach of the passengers; broken down; or unloaded and cased.

But some communities, including Carbondale, Ill., have their own, stronger regulations prohibiting any transportation of guns at all within the community. The law that the Senate upheld last week would invalidate such local rules, making the state standard apply everywhere.

Trent and others at Tuesday's news conference argued that cities are enacting their own transportation restrictions because state law is inadequate. They said some modern "fanny packs" (small nylon tote bags attached to belts) are designed with multiple compartments that allow the wearer to carry a handgun in one compartment and the ammunition in the other, keeping both easily accessible but technically separate. Such an arrangement, Trent said, is within the letter of the state law, but also is "de facto conceal-carry."

Phelps, the pro-gun legislator, scoffed at that argument, challenging gun control advocates to cite any examples in which guns carried in a such a manner have been used in a crimes. Phelps said the bill in question is a "common sense" measure to alleviate confusion for hunters, who may have to drive with their stored weapons through different communities that have different gun transportation standards.

"That hunter is not going to know what little towns have different ordinances," Phelps said. "There should be one uniform law."

The other two bills in question would eliminate the existing waiting period for obtaining a gun if the gun is being obtained in trade for another gun; and would require police to destroy gun purchase records 90 days after the transaction.

The gun transportation bill is SB2104. The waiting period bill is HB340. The gun records destruction bill is SB57.

[Byron Quick]

Good luck, Jeff.

[Joejojoba111]

If he's going to voice an opinion, to which he has 1st amendment freedoms, then he should NOT do so under his official title.

In my opinion.

[Matthew748]

It looks like the liberals’ house of cards is starting to topple in Illinois. Boss Daley is under federal investigation, the governor is scrambling to prevent his anti-gun vetoes from being overturned, and now one of the chief whip lashers from the Illinois state police is trying to prevent pro-gun legislation from gaining momentum. Keep up the pressure Illinois, you have them on the run now.

[Geno]

How do we get our rights back? One law at a time! Vote out a Democrat and a Republican. Vote in gun owners. Good luck Il!

Doc2005

[Stand_Watie]

They said some modern "fanny packs" (small nylon tote bags attached to belts) are designed with multiple compartments that allow the wearer to carry a handgun in one compartment and the ammunition in the other, keeping both easily accessible but technically separate. Such an arrangement, Trent said, is within the letter of the state law, but also is "de facto conceal-carry."

Who knows if Illinois brings charges against persons who do this? If they do, I'd like to see him have his own words used as defense in court.

[cropcirclewalker]

Thanks for this string.

I did not know that I couldn't transport my shootin' iron through Carbondale.

If the veto isn't overidden, I guess Carbondale doesn't have to worry about my tourist bucks anymore.

[Igloodude]

Sure, wanting to be armed makes you pro-criminal. :rolleyes: Just ask any criminal, they'll tell you how friendly gun owners are toward them. ;)

[El Tejon]

Hooray!:cool:

Someone please post a link for the Conan movie clip!

Nothing like hearing the lamentations of Illinois girly men! Boo hoo hoo, cry me a river. Do not dare cry that my civil rights are a "public safety" issue!

Perhaps my House of Worship or the books I read should be "controlled" because there may be a "public safety" issue at some point in the future.:fire:

If we can win in Illinois, we can win anywhere. Attack, and keep attacking!

[DonP]

The people that will blindly accept what a cop says, just because he's a cop, already have their minds made up.

IMHO, this is more of a "meat puppet" ventriloquest (sp?) act than the honest POV.

He had the fish and wildlife guys out making the same kind of speeches yesterday. All their jobs are on the line if Blago loses next year.

Since he already overspent on pork projects for Mike Madigan and his friends, tapped into employee and teacher pension funds to "balance" the state budget this year and has had a lot of negative press the last few months, he has to have something for his next soundbyte on the evening news.

Confronting the "evil and powerful gun lobby" is his only hope I think. But most of the opposition is from his own party, Dems outside of Chicago. Can't even blame those rascally Republicans here in the workers paradise of Illinois.

His biggest issue should be which of these guys has Fitzgerald had wearing a wire for the last few months down in Springfield. That was in the Tribune last week that they had an insider recording meetings down there on a jobs for contributions investigation. Everybody down there is as nervous as a cat in a roomful of rockers.

His own Father in law (Chicago alderman Dick Mel, no paragon of virtue there) finally found out what a skirt chaser he was and turned on him.

One term governor Blago, say "Buh Bye".

Illinois Governors Motto: "Will the defendant please rise and face the jury"

(3 out of our last 5 governors have either served time or are on trial now.)

[El Tejon]

Don, no doubt the coming publicity of the USA's investigation into Blago will give us traction [for outsiders: Illinois as the 5th largest state represents an enormous honey pot of tax money for Democrats who sell votes and pardons for tax money to the highest bidder; it is corrpution squared] but we are gaining ground before the dam blows on Daley and Blago.:cool:

We at THR who are inside Mordor or close to it have been saying that Illinois gun owners [for outsiders: non-Chicago Illinois is much more like Indiana as to guns, but Cook County and surrounding counties have the population and thus the power] are going to pull off a big Judo throw soon. That time is now!:)

[scout26]

The White Sox won the World Series this year. Heck, ANYTHING is now possible in Illinois including real concealed carry. We've got them on the run now boys !!!!

Again the key are the collar county (Lake, Will, DuPage, McHenry) Republicans who need to feel the heat that supporting the Chicago democrats will cost them.....

Rep. Phelps (D) is the one who introduced Concealed Carry legislation this year !!! If that gives you some perspective on how downstate democrats feel about gun control.

The real break-through will come when the Illinois democrats overthrow the Chicago based leadership and get some downstaters in leadership positions.

For those who don't know, the House and Senate in Illinois are controlled by the democrats. So the progress we're making is that much more incredible.

[Standing Wolf]

Cops want my respect? They'd better respect the nation's civil rights before asking for my respect.

[NoBite]

The White Sox won the World Series this year. Heck, ANYTHING is now possible in Illinois including real concealed carry. We've got them on the run now boys !!!!

I truly hope you are correct. We moved from IL to KY in 1990. No way am I contemplating a move back any time soon! :rolleyes:

[Atticus]

But some communities, including Carbondale, Ill., have their own, stronger regulations prohibiting any transportation of guns at all within the community.

Wow...I wasn't aware of that. I was raised there, and still have family there. I even know many, if not most, of the city officials. Some of my best buds in high school are ranking officers on the PD there.
WTH happened to C'dale since I left?
Damn.....it's time to fire off some E-mails to the old hometown.

[whm1974]

How do we get our rights back? One law at a time! Vote out a Democrat and a Republican. Vote in gun owners. Good luck Il!

Becareful there are a lot of Republicans such as the last govener who are antigun. quite a few democrats down here in South IL are pro gun.

But some communities, including Carbondale, Ill., have their own, stronger regulations prohibiting any transportation of guns at all within the community.

Wow...I wasn't aware of that. I was raised there, and still have family there. I even know many, if not most, of the city officials. Some of my best buds in high school are ranking officers on the PD there.
WTH happened to C'dale since I left?
Damn.....it's time to fire off some E-mails to the old hometown.

I think this law was on the books for a long time. This may be even news to some cops in C'dale.

-Bill

[Don Gwinn]

"My" Democrat, Gary Hannig, co-sponsored the CCW bill this year. Don't make the mistake of thinking you can vote for R's and against D's. It won't work.
Do you suppose it's Republicans who are overturning Blago's vetos this session? The Democrats are the majority in the legislature. If the Democrats were united in favor of gun control, we would not be winning anything. It's Democrats who are pulling us through the fire in this state.

They said some modern "fanny packs" (small nylon tote bags attached to belts) are designed with multiple compartments that allow the wearer to carry a handgun in one compartment and the ammunition in the other, keeping both easily accessible but technically separate. Such an arrangement, Trent said, is within the letter of the state law, but also is "de facto conceal-carry."
SIGH.
Crack a book, geniuses. There's no requirement that the ammunition be in a separate compartment of the case. Sheesh. I keep the loaded magazine in the same compartment as the pistol. It's perfectly legal as long as it's not in the gun.

[Don Gwinn]

Almost forgot--the ISP's leadership is willing to screw the citizens to protect higher political powers? I am Joe's Complete Lack of Surprise:

http://www.illinoistimes.com/gyrobase/Content?oid=oid%3A4792


The Good, the Bad, and the Expensive
By Dusty Rhodes

There are many good cops working for Illinois State Police. Keep repeating that phrase to yourself as you read on; otherwise, you might think ISP is awash in scofflaws. There are many good cops there, many good ones.
I hear from a few — some active, some retired and working for ISP on contract, some (without juice) just plain retired — by phone and e-mail and forwarded messages. In blunt and bitter missives, they bewail what they perceive as the tarnishing of their agency’s sterling reputation.
They complain about a case in Lincoln, where Special Agent Cynthia Robbins and Master Sgt. Rebecca Dewitt-Early violated the Miranda rights of Louis Russo II — a 21-year-old man suspected of killing his 3-month-old daughter — so many times that his confession and indictment had to be thrown out.
They complain about a case in Fairview Heights, where Lt. Col. Rich Woods cold-cocked an acquaintance in a Blockbuster (pun unavoidable) video store on Aug. 13 and has so far escaped discipline.
And, of course, they complain about the case in Champaign, where a federal jury found Capt. Steve Fermon and Lt. Col. Diane Carper had retaliated against then-Lt. Michale Callahan due to his efforts to re-open a murder investigation he believed had sent two innocent men to prison.
Well, wait. I should clarify: They don’t complain about the actions of Robbins or Dewitt-Early or Woods, Carper, or Fermon as much as they complain about the hierarchy that has let them all skate.
In the Lincoln case, for example, special prosecutor David Rands was set to indict Dewitt-Early, and Robbins, along with Sgt. Angela Grable and Lt. Carlo Jiannoni — who just happened to be both Robbins’ supervisor and her live-in boyfriend — on charges of obstruction of justice and official misconduct, when they agreed to accept administrative discipline instead. The popular theory among the ranks is that these four got a deal because they threatened to spill some very damaging beans on a higher-ranking ISP official.
Similarly, in the Fairview Heights case, the Blockbuster victim — whose assault and subsequent crash into the candy shelf was caught on tape — is said to have dropped the charges after receiving an informative visit from another ISP officer (retired but on contract). Had Woods been convicted of battery, he would have lost his right to carry a gun and ISP would have had no choice but to terminate him.
In the Champaign case, the controversy centers on whether heads should have rolled the day the jury awarded Callahan punitive damages in the amount of $195,600 against Carper and $276,700 against Fermon. State law requires termination of any policymaking officers assessed punitive damages for violating an employee’s civil rights. Yet the ISP administration has instead fought to keep Carper and Fermon on the payroll while they appeal the amount of the damages.
So I’m bracing myself for more e-mails and phone calls when the guys hear how much the four private attorneys appointed to represent Carper, Fermon and a third official (no finding of guilt against him) have billed us taxpayers. Are you sitting down? It’s $685,059.13, just through May 31.
Asked why the attorney bills were paid from the state’s general fund, and why the tab for Fermon ($369,023) was more than twice the price for Carper or the third defendant, ISP spokesman M/Sgt. Rick Hector sent me an e-mail explaining that private counsel was necessary since the attorney general’s office had a conflict of interest, and that the fees had been approved by the AG’s office. He didn’t answer my specific questions.
“Since the case is still pending before federal court, further statements from any source could taint the jury pool,” Hector wrote.
The trial happened in April, so this amount should represent the biggest chunk of the bill, one would hope. Yet, the post-trial conferences, mediations, and hearings are continuing as ISP seeks to lower the punitive costs. The next hearing is set for Nov. 1.
Here’s the thing: I know of at least four other lawsuits currently pending in which ISP employees are suing their own agency. No matter who wins the ultimate verdict, the whole purging process that is the legal system will undoubtedly reveal more information about the inner workings of ISP.
As we watch from the sidelines, we all need to remind ourselves even this load of lawsuits doesn’t taint the average trooper, the working cop putting his or her own safety on the line trying to keep us safe on the interstate. There are many good cops working for Illinois State Police, many good ones.

[Stand_Watie]

Becareful there are a lot of Republicans such as the last govener who are antigun. quite a few democrats down here in South IL are pro gun.



I think this law was on the books for a long time. This may be even news to some cops in C'dale.

-Bill

I think possibly you misunderstood his post. I'm pretty sure that he meant that you should vote out Democrats AND Republicans who are anti-gun, and vote in pro-gunners, regardless of their party.

Here in Texas most local politicians of both Democrat and Republican ilk are pretty pro-gun.

[Jeff White]

Lost today, to over ride a veto in Illinois requires a 3/5th majority:

67 Yeas (to override) 44 Nays (for the veto to stand) 3 present

:(

There is always next year....Jeff

[K-Romulus]

:cuss:

[buzz_knox]

If he's going to voice an opinion, to which he has 1st amendment freedoms, then he should NOT do so under his official title.

In my opinion.

+1. I wonder what would happen to one of his subordinates who disagreed with him, using their title to bolster a pro-gun position?

[scout26]

Jeff,

Which bill(s) did we fail to override ? IIRC, there were three, and I don't see anything on the ISRA website.

[shaldag]

I would be furious if I lived in Illinois. I support the right to carry so that makes me a criminal? This guy just disgusts me.

[Jeff White]

Scout,
We lost SB 2104, the preemption of local laws about transporting firearms.

Jeff

[Jeff White]

http://www.stltoday.com/stltoday/news/stories.nsf/illinoisstatenews/story/02D156BECBB4AE86862570AF00175219?OpenDocument
Pro-gun side fails; veto stands in Illinois
By Kevin McDermott
POST-DISPATCH SPRINGFIELD BUREAU
11/03/2005

SPRINGFIELD, ILL.

It's still illegal to drive through Carbondale with a gun in your car.

Gov. Rod Blagojevich has won his latest gun battle, beating back on
Thursday three proposed laws that would have loosened gun-control
restrictions. Among them was a measure that tried to bar Carbondale,
Chicago and other cities from enforcing local firearms transportation
ordinances that are more restrictive than state standards.

The Legislature passed all three laws earlier this year, and Blagojevich,
a Democrat, vetoed them. The Senate voted last week to override
Blagojevich on the gun transportation bill, but a House vote Thursday
narrowly failed to complete that override.

The other two vetoes haven't been called for a vote, and today is the
final day of the Legislature's fall "veto session," the last chance to
enact laws over Blagojevich's objections. Advocates on both sides said it
was unlikely that any of the three gun measures would be acted on today.

"Sometimes you slay the dragon, and sometimes the dragon eats you,"
National Rifle Association lobbyist Todd Vandermyde said after the vote.
He said House Speaker Michael Madigan, D-Chicago, put pressure on enough
lawmakers to prevent the override of Blagojevich's veto.

"The election starts tomorrow," said Vandermyde, vowing to make the gun
vote a 2006 campaign issue. "There are 400,000 hunters in this state."

State law says guns can be transported in cars if they are out of reach of
passengers, broken down or unloaded and cased. But some communities have
stronger regulations - including Carbondale, which doesn't allow any
transportation of firearms at all. The law that Blagojevich vetoed would
have invalidated such local ordinances, making the state standard apply
everywhere.

The House needed a three-fifths majority of 71 votes to override
Blagojevich. The override vote was 67 "yes" and 44 "no," with three
legislators voting "present."

Roll-call records from the passage of the bill earlier this year showed
that a dozen legislators who had previously voted in favor of the law
switched positions Thursday and voted against the override, backing
Blagojevich to prevent the law from going into effect.

Most who switched were Democrats from the Chicago area, a group that was
heavily lobbied by the administration. Most of those who voted to override
were Republicans and downstate Democrats - who tend to form pro-gun
alliances whenever gun issues arise.

The only Metro East-area legislator who shifted sides was Rep. Wyvetter
Younge, D-East St. Louis, who voted in favor of the law in May, but voted
against overriding Blagojevich's veto on Thursday. Younge couldn't be
located for comment after the vote.

The rest of the Metro East-area's House delegation voted with the pro-gun
side against Blagojevich. They were: Dan Beiser, D-Alton; Mike Bost,
R-Murphysboro; Kurt Granberg, D-Carlyle; Gary Hannig, D-Litchfield; Jay
Hoffman, D-Collinsville; Thomas Holbrook, D-Belleville; Dan Reitz,
D-Steeleville; Ron Stephens, R-Greenville; and Jim Watson, R-Jacksonville.

In floor debate, proponents argued that allowing communities to have their
own standards could ensnare hunters who are traveling through the state
with legally transported guns, which become illegal upon crossing into
some municipalities. "We have a very sensible and stringent statewide
standard," argued Reitz, the Steeleville Democrat.

In a written statement, Blagojevich praised the House for upholding his
veto: "Many communities across our state are taking extra steps to protect
their residents from gun violence. I vetoed this legislation because it
undermines those efforts to keep their residents safe."

The other two vetoed bills would have eliminated the waiting period for a
gun if it is obtained in trade for another gun; and would have required
police to destroy gun purchase records 90 days after the transaction.

The gun transportation bill is SB2104. The waiting period bill is HB340.
The gun records destruction bill is SB57.

[scout26]

I can only think of how much better off this state would be if Poshard (D- Downstate) had been elected Governor. I bet we'd have CCW by now.

Well I guess, I'll be a criminal again when I drive through Carbondale to drop off some venison at a friend parents house on my way back from deer hunting this year.

[DRZinn]

effective gun control:rolleyes: