[Rockrivr1]

My future wife is having a very tough time right now as her father abruptly passed away. This came as a huge shock to the family and as with any family the past week was spent getting the funeral arrangements made. This is especially tough seeing her uncle just passed away 6 weeks ago. I started a post back then about whether it was appropriate to CCW at a funeral and the answer was a resounding yes.

So, with that thread in mind I carried during the wake. A wake where I was standing in the family line after the coffin. I was carrying a 642 in a Mitch Rosen Tuckable IWB Holster in the 4-5 o'clock position. With a suite on, there was no way to visibly tell I was carrying.

About halfway through the 3 hour wake my fiancee breaks a little and starts to cry and leans into me for a hug. No big deal until she wraps her arms around me an firmly plants a hand on the grip of my 642. She picks her head up off my chest, looks me in the eye and says in a rather loud voice

"Are you carrying a gun at my father's funeral" :uhoh:

Ok, let me state that the funeral home was PACKED to say the least. He was a very popular guy and there was a line out the door for the entire 3 hours. When she said it, a whole bunch of heads turned my way including her fathers brother and sister who where standing next to me. I said, no, it's my cell phone. Which was a big fat lie that she knew because I gave her my cell phone when we got there to put in her purse. At least she didn't call me a liar right in front of the crowd. I think that most people bought it except for a few people in the crowd and the brother and sister team. They were eying my waistline all night. Made me pretty uncomfortable.

Then the next day we are at the funeral home getting ready for the trip to the church. The place had about 30-40 people there when my Fiancee's fathers sister asks if we were holding all the cards that people brought the night before. I said yes and that I had put them in my safe. The Fiancee blurts out.

"So you put them in the GUN safe?"

Ok, I know her father just passed away but damn, SHUT UP!!!! :fire:

Hummm, for only being together 2 years I'm sure spending a lot of time at funerals with this family

[John Ross]

I'd call it off, were I you. This one is NOT a keeper.

JR

[Blue Jays]

Hi Rockrivr1-

That was absolutely irresponsible behavior on the part of your girlfriend to loudly exclaim you were armed. Family is one thing, but complete strangers also attend funerals due to their business/professional associations with the deceased. They could even be people her uncle didn't particularly like, but they're making an appearance for "political" reasons. There is no reason for them to know you're armed or even a gunowner for that matter.

Tell her not to do that again under any circumstances.

~ Blue Jays ~

[Darth Ruger]

Do you want to be one of the guys that keep coming here asking for help in dealing with your 'wife problem'?

If your fiance has a problem with your lifestyle, now is the time to seriously reconsider if she's really right for you.

[Kharn]

Sounds like she needs a sit-down discussion about concealed meaning concealed.

Kharn

[KriegHund]

Why not carry a gun...anywhere?

And why did you put cards (Like hallamrk cards right) in the safe? Or am i misunderstanding the word card?

[TonkinTwentyMil]

Double ditto what John Ross said.

Such incidents are the litmus test of political compatibility, even during times of stress. You two may think you have much in common, lotsa love, blah-blah, etcetera. However, over time, she'll resent you for this incident AND your love of those eeevil guns that are only made to kill innocent people, more blah-blah.

Dropo kick her real soon (after her mourning period's over) to some "sensitive" anti-gun pacifist wimp who'll support her delusions and submit to them... not challenge them as you will (and must).

[hso]

"Darling, one of the reasons I carry a gun all the time is that I couldn't live with myself if some kook did anything to hurt you or the kids we'll have some day. If we let lots of people know that I do then that takes away from my ability to protect us. Let's keep it a secret so that no one gets the idea they should come to the house and try to break in and take the gunsafe or prevent me from keeping YOUR STUPID BUTT OUT OF A PINE BOX!!!"

[Rob1035]

she's taking her grief out at your expense. Call her on it, her reaction might suprise you.


in retrospect, I dunno, I probably would have told her I was carrying, if she didn't already know "carrying 24/7" really meant 24/7 (if thats how you carry)

[Alex45ACP]

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v646/6655321/itsatrap.jpg

www.NoMarriage.com

[Old Pa]

It's pretty much a general truth that the individual factors which lead to a divorce were known to the parties before the marriage. There are worse things than not being married.

[sturmruger]

The last funeral in my family there was close to $1000 in cash in the hallmark cards!! I think that is worth putting somewhere safe.


Rock don't listen to all of these guys. There are people such as myself who got married to a women who was less then enthused about my gun collectoin. Now that I have had 6 years to work on her she has come around in a big way. Many times when we are in a bad part of town she will pat my waist to make herself feel better. Her feeling my gun always puts her at ease and she gets a cute little smile on her face. It always makes me feel good because I know she feels more secure with me and my gun being in close proximity. This is not a deal breaker she just needs some more time to come around. Work on her slowly and after a few years you will be in good shape.

[Strings]

Look over your head. You'll find two handles, painted in a yellow and black stripped pattern. Grasp those handles firmly, and pull forward and down. And brace for the ignition of rocket in the seat...

[Rob1035]

also she is probably very distraught on a few different levels, they are complicated creatures.

[Mongo the Mutterer]

Hate to say it, but grab the handles and eject! eject! eject!

This event is something you will have to answer to for the rest of time. Stuff like this doesn't go away and her "gun" comment the next day tells me that the event may be a defining moment in your relationship. And not a good one...

The best thing is to be honest and direct after she has had her mourning period and see if I am right about the above. If I am, you are in trouble.

[longtooth]

I did not get in on that 1st question about carrying at funerals but here is another resounding yes. I carry at every funeral, wedding, & church service that I am at. He may have been the greatest guy in the whole world. The family may all get along & be the one in a million that never has a cross word let alone any trouble. Get her to guarantee that there will not be some fool that is looking for a great big crowd to shoot up like there has been in so many churches & schools. Even though I have never seen a funeral home posted legally w/ no carry signs, I believe they would be seen by any BG's as a gun free place. NOW #2. HEAR THIS REAL CLEAR. Her blurting out like that was not so much how she feels about guns as how she will treat you in the future over anything you do that she does not like. I don't know how old you are but I have been marrying couples for over 33 yr. now. I tell tell the ladies if they want to know how the future husband is going to talk to them and about them after the wedding, just watch how they talk about their Mother. The same goes for the guys. The way she has done at the funeral home will be the way she will do at the grocery store, family reunion, kids ball game or at the employee recognition banquet. I have seen that one and most of the others. Some have said get rid of her now. Others that there needs to be a real heart to heart talk about not happening again. Another ask if you were going to be asking for advice from the forum about a problem wife for the rest of your life. I will tell you that 33 + yr has taught me that you need to decide whether you are going to get out now or be imbarrased every time you do something she does not like until you can't live w/ it any more & get out then. Probably w/ kids 10, 8, & 5. Sounds tough now but not near as tough as living w/ a mean tongued woman. Married life is too long to live it in misery.

[Lupinus]

Have a sit down with her and discuss the KEEP YOUR MOUTH SHUT factor. Explain to her a concealed weapon is concealed for a reason and her BLURTING it out like the virgin mary just apeared over the coffin is NOT a good way to handle such things.

If she has a problem with you carrying and/or can't learn to keep her mouth shut and/or has a problem with your guns in general then its time for you to do some serious consideration on if this is really the one for you.

[Darth Ruger]

Now that I have had 6 years to work on her she has come around in a big way.That's a mighty long time to have to work on changing someone.


As a buddy of mine who was married to the wrong woman (he knew it when they got married, and they are now happily divorced) once said to me...
"The only thing worse than being alone is being married to someone who makes you wish you were alone."

[Sistema1927]

You can't change anyone, and anyone who thinks so is living in dreamland.

Is there anything else about her that nags you? If so, then get used to it, or decide that now is the time to bail out.

[Fred Fuller]

Rock,

My wife was carrying at our WEDDING.

THAT'S how you can tell a keeper...

lpl/nc

[sturmruger]

It never ceases to amaze me how anti marriage a lot of the guys on this board can be. I don't know if most of the guys on here are divorced, or if they just hate the whole institution of marriage.


Rock I am sure you are smart enough to not get rid of her over this one situation.

[Old Pa]

It never ceases to amaze me how anti marriage a lot of the guys on this board can be. I don't know if most of the guys on here are divorced, or if they just hate the whole institution of marriage.
I've been married happily (and once) for almost twenty years. I don't "hate the whole institution of marriage", but I do know which end is up with the tribe of femalies. :)

[Darth Ruger]

I also wouldn't put any stock in the idea that it's just because of her current period of mourning. The way she reacted in both of those incidents is the type of attitude of someone that has a problem with guns.

If she were perfectly okay with guns, she wouldn't have freaked when she accidentally put her hand on the pistol grip. It would have been just a fact of daily life and she would have moved her hand without giving it a second thought. And she would have appreciated that you put those cards in the safest place in the house.

This isn't about grieving. It's about a woman that has a problem with her man's lifestyle. Think oil and water.

Something tells me you already know this deep inside, or you wouldn't have posted this here.

[Lupinus]

It never ceases to amaze me how anti marriage a lot of the guys on this board can be. I don't know if most of the guys on here are divorced, or if they just hate the whole institution of marriage.
It has nothing to do with being anti marrige it is about being compatible without major serious changes. Any relationship requires change, adaptation, and compromise anyone who is unwilling to do any of those completly will wind up old and alone....possibly hapily possibly not.

But if one person can not accept the other for what they are rather then who they want them to be then that is different. If you are a gun carrier that speeks alot about you and is a major thing, if she isn't compatible with that then it is better to part ways. If it is a part of who you are, whether it be cars, planes, hell model sail boats, if that is a part of who you are thats it. Other person doesn't have to enjoy it, other person doesn't have to participate, but they do have to accept it. On that note the same curtisey is and should be extended to the other party. Now that said even if they accept it change is still nessisary. For instince if you like cars and you spent all your spare time under the hood of a car, that is no longer possible. If all your spare time was spent in a bar, no longer possible. But thats who you are thats who you are and the other person has to accept that you are changing it a bit to accomidate them out of respect, but that you are not flushing it down the toilet.

[Bulldozer]

Having been twice divorced, and now on my third (and happiest by far)marriage, I may have some experiential input that could be valid.

My first wife was violently anti-gun. So much so that I could not even store a sidearm in the house. It had to stay in the locker at work. There were so many signs that said don't do it, but I persevered being young and foolish. She thought nothing of taking the Metro all over the place at all times of the night through some very shady neighborhoods. Mistake all around. I was outed twice and that was just the icing on the cake.

Intersperse several girlfriends who I taught to shoot and some even got a CCW. Great girls, good sense, just not the type (I thought) to settle down with. A couple of girls I dated were better CCW-ers and shooters than I was. They never outed me in that way. It was a joy to have a companion who was also capable of being a "partner" should the need arise.

Second wife had no qualms with guns and learned to shoot reasonably well. Other issues led to the demise of this marriage. When looking for a long-term/lifelong mate having shared beliefs across many topics (including RKBA) may just not be enough. You both have to be growing together as you develop, not apart.

My third wife is a nurse and is anti-gun. She knew from the get-go that I would NOT compromise on this. She has become normalized to the presence of it via my daily carry. To her credit, she has NEVER outed me or otherwise groused about the carriage of my pistols. She understands the background surrounding the decision and supports it. She has only touched a gun once and does not care to learn. She has seen/treated too many gunshot wounds to want to spend her personal time with the weapons. That being said, the many other factors that make up a successful marriage are there (they weren't in the prior ones) and I can see myself happily settled with my dear wife.

Best advice I can give:

1.) If she does something that feels wrong in your core, you need to discuss it. Talk is not a bad thing. It can uncover issues that can be addressed before the legally binding commitment kicks in.

2.) You need to have a vision of shared beliefs and goals for the future. While you may be compatible now, if you have disparate dreams and goals, you will grow apart.

3.) You need to be able to trust one another -- financially, fidelity-wise, and emotionally. If you don't/can't trust the other party in the relationship, why are you staying in the relationship?

4.) You both need to be willing to find a level of compromise of important issues with each other that you both can live with. No one side should have to totally give in to the other. That is where resentment kicks in and rots out the heart of the love you share.

[Darth Ruger]

I don't hate the institution of marriage. But the sacred institution of marriage is worthless and becomes a prison when two people that really aren't right for each other ignore the warning signs and get married and end up getting divorced later because they don't have the strength to do what they know is the right thing to do.

I watched my brother do it. I watched my sister do it twice. My own wife did it once before me and learned her lesson the hard way. One of her sisters did it. Another sister is in her second marriage that's even worse than the first one. She actually slipped once and admitted to my wife that she knew they shouldn't get married, but otherwise continually tries to defend her marriage, and she's more miserable every day. Too many people today spend their time justifying and rationalizing something they know isn't right, rather than listening to that primitive thing we all have within us called instinct. It's there to protect us. Why ignore it?

When a problem crops up after the fact, that's one thing. But when someone knows beforehand that it's not right and proceeds with it anyway, it invariably ends up being the one time in their life that they wished they had listened to their gut instinct. I came close once, but the "this is wrong, don't do it" feeling was just getting stronger and stronger. I finally listened to it instead of denying it, and once it was over, I felt so relieved. I knew I did the right thing, and now I've been with the right woman for the last ten years. We never would have met if I had married the one I knew inside was wrong for me.

It's not about hating the institution of marriage, it's about having the common sense to listen to your instincts and having the strength to face the truth.

Notice the point of the story when he posted it: "My future wife..." His instincts are telling him something about this relationship and he knows it.

[Standing Wolf]

"Are you carrying a gun at my father's funeral"

My answer would have been, "Of course. I carry everywhere." That wouldn't have been news, since it seems to me that's a matter to get squared away fairly early on in a relationship. That's all I'd have said. It would then have been up to her to pursue the conversation or let it be concluded.

[WT]

Cut her a break. Some people say and do incredibly stupid things after the death of a loved one.

After a year, check back.

[Lupinus]

And some people say incredably stupid things with a gun pointed at their head.

Not to be insensitive but if you blurt that out at a funeral I don't really trust you not to in a situation where such would be dangerous.

"Alright give me your wallet!" as underprivliged youth points gun at your head

"Allright easy buddy.." as you reach back for your gun making it look liek your going for your waller

"Pleast tell me you have your gun!" screamed by the little woman about to wet herself taking away your chance to get your gun because he has enough time to process you are armed before you can draw and shoot cause your hand isn't at your gun yet

[Ellie]

My answer would have been, "Of course. I carry everywhere."

1) I like this answer. Why is it that either partner in a marriage should become less or different than they were before the marriage? Why should you compromise yourself? Answer: you shouldn't. She either wants you for you, or not.

2) Lupinus has a good point, too. You want a woman who can be calm and intelligent under stress.

3) I agree with many posters that it's important to watch for red flags before getting married.

To make a marriage work, love and attraction are important, but compatability, respect, and agreement on key issues (e.g. money, guns, and kids) are absolute necessities.

You are entering into a relationship where you are responsible for each other. For instance, you will have to pay off her credit card debt if she's bad with money (and vice versa). Not a small decision.

Remember: once you're married, it's cheaper to keep her!

4) Why not carry at a funeral? How is it less likely that you'll need a weapon?

[Mnemesyne]

Relationships are about compromise....I'd sit her down and discuss why concealed means concealed however and determine if it was simply being overstressed due to the death in the family or that she doesn't like firearms...Don't change for them and don't try to change them for you...that's the worst thing you can do to a relationship...

If she loves you for you, she'll accept you for who you are presently...not who she wishes you were or who she hopes to turn you into....Having someone who can keep a calm head when things go bad is also important...

I'm sure that you're mature enough to determine if you need to end your relationship or not so I won't go there....Just remember one thing, without trust, relationships have nothing...irregardless how good the other "benefits" are.....


Mneme

[The Tourist]

I don't believe it is possible to change that aspect of a woman's personality. My Mom nagged me incessantly. My Dad would never intervene.

I told my wife that I endure just about any behavior, but not nagging, at any cost. And if she attempts to start, even now, it gets ugly.

My advice, in truth, dump her. You'll listen to this your entire life. And just about the time you think you have it solved, she'll revert to step one. There are lots of pretty, capable NRA girls.

[spacemanspiff]

rock, your response should have been "but honey, all the guys on the internet told me to!"

if the blame game was good enough for adam (it wasnt ME, the woman that YOU gave me made me do it!) its good enough for us. :D

[redneck2]

There are worse things than not being married.

Having BTDT...listen to this advice. I didn't, and it cost me a LOT of money and heartache

Dump her like yesterday's trash

My newest wife has a CCW and buys me guns. Also, she's drop dead gorgeous and cooks like a dream. Gotta sort thru the chaff to get the wheat

[gulogulo1970]

Cut her some slack, her father just died.

[Lupinus]

did we not already go over the cut her some slack someone just died in ehr family part?

Scroll up I don't feel like typing it over agian.

[gulogulo1970]

All of you emotions are amplified when someone dies, and most of those emotions can be negative. The outing my CCW talk, can come at a later date.

I read your posts Lupinus, I guess I don't think as tactically as you do, Mr. Sensitive.

[one45auto]

Cut her loose, my friend. Mourning or not, she ratted you out and that instance is - to me, anyway, indicative of several bad character traits.

[Lupinus]

I read your posts Lupinus, I guess I don't think as tactically as you do, Mr. Sensitive.

Yep. Thats me. :rolleyes:

It's not about thinking tacticle. Its about being able to maintain common sense while under extreme emotional distress. A close family member jsut died. Mourn, cry, be sad, all that is fine and well Im not saying you have to be a brick outhouse through it all. But you SHOULD be able to maintain some form of thought and sense when in distress. If you can't do that thats fine and well, but it means serious talk time.

[JohnKSa]

People use emotional moments and stressful situations as an excuse to say and do what they want to say and do all the time.

[Ben Shepherd]

DITTO the sit-down. Maybe should have happened a long time ago. However:

WAIT a couple weeks to do this, even if it means changing your routine to avoid situations that could spark a repeat. WHY? It'll let her get her emotions under control so you can have a rational/logical discussion.

Depending on how this talk goes and ends should give you a very strong inclination as to which way this relationship should go.

[Krenn]

this MAY have been an understandable mistake.

on the other hand, it may be a forewarning.

I'd reccomend that you find several good, conservative, relationaship guides. Laura Schlessinger comes to mind, although her work needs to be taking with several grains of salt. Relevant books include ten stupid things women do, ten stupid things men do, and the proper care and feeding of husbands. Those titles are not exact. I imagine better books exist, but those are choice you're likely to find in your local library. Brad Miner's The Compleat Gentleman is also good, although not exactly a relationship book.

after you've read your fill. (and a read a LOT, by a LOT of different people.) review your notes. (You DID take notes, didn't you?) Make a list of General philosophical aproaches to life and marraige that you and your fiance HAVE to share. (I.E, answering each other's questions honestly and fully if at all possible, each being willing to make large sacrifices for the other, etc, etc. your philosophy may vary.

Then, block out major issues, on which you and your fiance PROBABLY should share. I.E. RKBA, abortion, political party, Religion, etc. depending on your personal views, some of those may belong under mandatory philosophy.

After that is 'style' points... how clean each of you like to keep your homes, how clingy each of you are likely to be to your original families, whether you prefer Autoloaders or Revolvers... these points are PROBABLY not important, but it helps to know, and if you are on opposite ends of the spectrum on almost everthing on this list, you may want to double check the previous two lists.

After doing a LOT of VERY CAREFULL PREPERATION, sit down and talk to your fiance about these matters. it would probably be sportsmanlike to warn her well ahead of time, so she has time to prepare as well, and does not feel ambushed.

Then talk. for as long as it takes, in as many sessions as it takes, until you have a very clear idea of what sort of person each of you are, and what you can expect in a marraige.

IF all this comes out fine, then the funeral was probably a minor matter that can easily solved. I wish the both of you a long and happy marraige.

If you get very ugly reactions, or carefull, studied, neutrality...

you may need to break up the engagement. be as gentlemanly as possible... while it may be uncomfortable for a long time afterwards, it doesn't bode well if you leave a trail of unneccessary enemies behind you. besides, she might have a cousin, or she might change, or you might change... or you could have been wrong in your studies.

above all THINK THROUGH THIS VERY CAREFULLY.

[EddieCoyle]

I haven't read the whole thread and pardon me if this has been stated before but after three or four dates, my girlfriends are used to me carrying all the time. The subject would never come up. In fact, the only time my GF said anything was when she hugged me and said, "Where's your gun?'

[XavierBreath]

Her saying "Are you carrying a gun at my father's funeral" is akin to you saying "Are those real or post surgical breasts?"

There is some tact that cannot be taught or learned.

It's time to start looking again. Sorry. It won't get any better.

[Sir Aardvark]

Good Luck!.....sucker

[Blue Jays]

Hi All-"...People use emotional moments and stressful situations as an excuse to say and do what they want to say and do all the time..." This is one of the best posts of the whole thread. As a society we need to get a stiff upper-lip and learn how to get through bad times without completely losing composure and becoming unraveled. Great insight into the topic JohnKSa...

~ Blue Jays ~

[JohnKSa]

Thanks!

I've always thought that what a person does and says is evidence of what's inside. Stress doesn't change what's inside, but it can reveal it.

BTW, I have no illusions of changing the threadstarter's mind--he's toast. Biology almost always wins over logic.

[1911 guy]

As others have said..."EJECT"! You've been dating this woman for two years and now she's surprised you're carrying? There is either a severe ideological mismatch or a severe communication issue and neither bodes well. My wife (who I dated for less than two years) knows that I carry, will carry anywhere not illegal and some places that are and also knows not to give me any grief over it. She has some habits that she will do with regularity and I know better than to give her grief over that. If you don't have these issues sorted out two years into a relationship, there's nothing but trouble on the horizon. Sorry to be the bearer of bad news, but I calls 'em like I sees 'em.

[oneslowgun]

I very much agree with JohnKSa. Stress does not change a person, stress DEFINES a person. A person never more truely shows who and what they are then when under stress.

[Flatfender]

http://www.political-comedy-central.com/mil/eject.JPG

[brokendreams]

what was her position BEFORE the funeral?

If she was on the fence anti-gun before these two incidents, then, yeah, she should be replaced, or at least talked to. If she was fine with your guns, went to the range with you, maybe fired a few herself, expressed interest in owning one herself... it could totally be her grief talking, and the fact that she doesn't understand (through all her pain and misery) why you would need to carry at her fathers' funeral.

Also, she may be putting the blame of her fathers death on violence of any type (even if he didn't have a violent death) and just thinking GUN means DEATH. Remember, irrational behavior is called that for a reason.



caveat: I'm not a doctor or psychologist, I just play one on the internet.

[MNgoldenbear]

Best of luck to you, whatever you decide. Not that the other replies don't have their strong points, but I think Bulldozer had the most realistic answer. As a physics professor friend of mine is fond of saying, "But it's more complicated than that." Having a spouse who is/isn't crazy about firearms is not the best/worst possible relationship. There seem to be more basic issues of communication and respect here, and I hope that you are able to resolve them, one way or another. My wife and I have only been married a few years (we're a bit older, my first, her second). She does not like anything to do with guns, hunting, etc. She is afraid of guns and does not like them around (though she grew up on a farm where everyone hunted). She knew when we met that I was heavily into shooting sports. That did not define our relationship, though. She has handled a gun once (with me) and I have made it clear that if we choose to live out in the country, she will need to learn to shoot (too many dangerous animals and I'm not always home). She does not like this idea, but wants to live in the country and sees the utility of the skill. She has not bought me firearms (we really can't afford more now), but did suggest that we visit Rock Island Arsenal while on our honeymoon (we were passing through that area and I just mentioned remembering hearing that name -- awesome museum!), surprised me by taking me to a gun show for Valentine's Day, and regularly tries to open up a free morning or afternoon for me to hunt or target shoot. She knows I love to shoot, and so she wants me to enjoy my sports. I know she doesn't like it, so I don't push her on the issue (other than for safety needs). I carry under a CCW, and she is very good about not mentioning or "telegraphing" (too many looks at or touches to the weapon) when I am carrying, and I remember to let her know whether I am or not ahead of time.

The gun issue is not a deciding factor, but the respect and communication is. If not resolved, it will very soon lead to unhappiness for both of you. Again, good luck, and God bless.

[psyopspec]

Dumping her without talking about this would be acting rash. So would going on as if it had never occurred. Find out what's up, and go from there.

[nyresq]

evac!!!!!

[Strings]

>Its about being able to maintain common sense while under extreme emotional distress. A close family member jsut died. Mourn, cry, be sad, all that is fine and well Im not saying you have to be a brick outhouse through it all. But you SHOULD be able to maintain some form of thought and sense when in distress. If you can't do that thats fine and well, but it means serious talk time.<

For what it's worth, my wife Spoon totally agreed with the above...

Of course, she's gonna have her own CCW (when the PTB allow WI serfs that priviledge)...

[Lupinus]

Do NOT listen to the "get out now!" people. Sit her down, talk with her. A real serious talk and take it from there if it goes bad choose your right to protect yourself or her and go from there.

But stress is stress reguardless if it is a death or a gun put to your head in the end stress is stress and she needs a serious sit down talk before you do anything like leave her over it.

[mete]

outing can be very dangerous. There was a case in PA some years ago where a man and his wife went to the bank. He was carrying and she knew it. Two BGs came into the bank and the wife said to her husband in a loud whisper 'don't draw your gun' .The BGs heard this and immediately killed him !!!

[1911Tuner]

All my adult life, whenever I got involved with a woman, one of the first things that I got out of the way was to tell her that I carried a gun everywhere except government buildings and courthouses with metal detectors...no matter what the circumstances...even to church and to funerals. My standing disclaimer was to inform her that if this was going to be a problem, that she should get it out now, because it was non-negotiable.

It's been a good policy. I lost a few, but...:cool:

[jdkelly]

Tell her you were carrying in case her dad went Zommbie. I'm sorry.:(


Respectfully,

jdkelly

[patentnonsense]

It's not about her opinions -
It's about trust.

Sorry to add to the chorus, but she just proved something very important.

[Missashot]

Just for what it is worth. Do not dump her right now. She has already lost an uncle and her father in a very short amount of time. If that doesn't put a lot of stress on someone, they are inhuman. Dumping her now would make you look like a HUGE jacka$$.
I would sit down with her, and ask her why she outed you so loudly at the funeral. She may not have known how loudly she said it (stress does make the voice rise). Also she may have been shocked at you carrying to her dad's funeral. She may not have seen the need in it. Also, I would point out that the safe is the BEST place by far to keep valuables in the house.
That being said, I wish you the best of luck.

[stevelyn]

Too bad about her father, but as a previous poster stated "stress defines who you really are".
Consider yourself lucky. She has revealed an incompatable core value about herself.

You have two options:

1) You can stick it out with her hoping against hope that it was an isolated incident and spend the rest of your days in misery as she attempts to mold you in HER image of what/who she thinks you ought to be........or:

2) You can heed the warning signs now and get out while you still have your sanity, freedom and FINANCIAL assets intact.

Women are replaceable, and none are worth sacrificing core values and beliefs for.
Liberty, freedom and financial assets once lost are much harder to come by.

[grimjaw]

I don't know how 'future' this woman is, or how long you've known each other. By the time I'd made the committment, I would have already lined out the idea that:

1. I carry.
2. I do it wherever it's legal.
3. I don't intend to change that because there's an additional person with my last name living with me.
4. Both of our families are aware that I carry.

So if you haven't gotten to the point yet where that's established in your relationship, her reaction is understandable and certainly forgiveable under the circumstances.

If you've already had the talks and she hasn't agreed to 1-4, brother, you're looking for a life I wouldn't choose.

YMMV.

jmm

[NineseveN]

I would feel violated if that were me, and I'd be steaming angry. I would talk with her, in a few days, give her time to collect herself a bit after her dad's death...but in the end, it might still be time to eject.

[Rockrivr1]

Thanks for all the replys everyone. When my Fiancee and I first started dating I didn't carry as I didn't have my CCW as of yet. Over the past two years she has been very pro gun, has gone shooting with me several times, attended guns shows with me and has talked about going to a firearms saftey class with my Mom so they can get their permits. I finally was able to get my CCW in July and have been carrying with the 642 in a pocket holster mostly. I never really discussed this with her directly as she's seen me put the 642 in my pocket before we were going out to leave. Her outing me like that was confusing to me as I thought she realized I carried almost all the time now. Now that I've had to think about it, I guess not.

I understand what most of you are saying and to be honest I'm surprised I'm getting married again after the 14 years of hell I went through with my first wife. But, she's been like a rock and I honestly consider her my best friend. Even when I got really sick after the first 6 months of us dating, she stuck with me and made sure I got the best care possible. She doesn't own a credit card :what: (Couldn't believe this one at first) but it's true. She only spends what she has after she pays her bills. Holy crap, my first wife sunk us into debt so bad it wasn't even funny.

The wedding is in 5 weeks. So at this point I think I'll wait a week or two for her to get her fathers death behind her a bit and then sit down with her and have a conversation about my CCW habbits. She has to understand that what she did was very BAD. She knows I'm a gun nut and she's stuck around, so I take that as a good sign.

I know some of you are saying. To summarize = Sucker! and Toast! I had to smirk Sir Aardvark and Lupinus when I read your comments.

To all those who said "EJECT", don't worry. If things feel bad after the conversation I'll bail. I definitely will not go through a repeat of my first marriage.

[NineseveN]

Thanks for the update, sounds like a simple talk will iron things out. Good luck!

[30 cal slob]

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v646/6655321/itsatrap.jpg

www.NoMarriage.com

LOL. :D

[calzoom]

QUOTE:::To all those who said "EJECT", don't worry. If things feel bad after the conversation I'll bail. I definitely will not go through a repeat of my first marriage:::

Can you really? I would say you have a big decision! Her or the gun?

You can take this to the bank........She'll out you again! Probably when your or her life is on the line!

Are you prepared to be totally humiliated again or die for her because she won't keep quiet. Stress or no stress she is a keg of dynamite.

It's very simple. If you want to keep her you will put the guns away and forget it. Or you will be walking on eggshells every time you go into a place where ccw would be appropriate!

Yeah, stress does funny things to nice folks. You've just been handed a nice lesson. Thank God it was there and not at gun point of some nut case!

Your call. I don't wish to be in your shoes::eek:

[calzoom]

Just had a thought! Why not print out this thread and present it to her???


Boy,:uhoh:That ought to get a discussion going!

[Frandy]

I'm with Bulldozer all the way. And by the way, my wife is quite unfriendly about "guns" but not unfriendly about me. Our marriage is strong and works because we have excellent communication, recognize the values and commitments that we share, and are cognizant of those matters on which we have significant differences. There are few.

Oh, and guess what? Had I been in this situation, I would have asked my wife if I could carry at the funeral. She would say no and I would have honored that. Oh boy, here come the flames. Sorry, guys, I don't see BGs around every corner. Sometimes, you make compromises and you make them when necessay. On this one, my future wife's feelings and needs would come first. It's not like I was going to the funeral of a gang-banger or deep into the most menacing of gang banger territory. Protecting the cards and money? :rolleyes:

Go ahead, feel free to flame away...

[NineseveN]

So if you live next to a funeral parlor, there would be zero reason to own firearms? Wow, never thought of it that way...because apparently, funeral parlors, and the areas surrounding them are complete bastions of unfaltering safety. :)

[Beethoven]

Rockrivr:

I'm very sorry to hear of your experience.

I would give a looooooooong, hard thought to whether this is really, truly the woman you want to share the REST OF YOUR LIFE with.

I firmly believe that a person's views on guns is an excellent and accurate indicator about their beliefs on a myriad of other issues and is a good insight into the type of person they truly are at the core of their being.

Funeral or not, what she did was grossly inappropriate, extremely rude to you, and showing a complete lack of consideration for you.

That alone would make me instantly tell you to dump that _____ quick.

It won't get better. You cannot change who someone fundamentally is.

There are plenty of fish in the sea and being single is FUN! More money for guns, ask out any hottie you lay eyes on, no one to report to, etc. etc. :D

[Mongo the Mutterer]

Rockrivr if your taste in women is as good as it is in snubbies, you have a winner!

Best wished for a long, happy, and cordite filled future.

Mongo

[Lupinus]

So frandy...you are supposed to ask her if you can carry your gun and be ready to defend yourself?

Sorry but thats a no go. ANY place you go your are unlikly to be attacked. That doesn't mean not possible, it simply means that it isn't likly, in fact the odds are you will go through your entire life and never need to draw your gun on someone but that doesnt mean you don't. Next are you going to ask if you can carry to the bank? The market? On your sunday drive?

Thats how you want it thats your buisness but asking if it is ok to carry certian places because she doesnt like it is unadvisable. She doesn't have to like all the things you do and in turn you don't have to like all the things she does. But if you can't accept the things the other person does that you don't like then that isn't exactly the key to happiness for most people.

[Beethoven]

The last funeral in my family there was close to $1000 in cash in the hallmark cards!! I think that is worth putting somewhere safe.


Rock don't listen to all of these guys. There are people such as myself who got married to a women who was less then enthused about my gun collectoin. Now that I have had 6 years to work on her she has come around in a big way. Many times when we are in a bad part of town she will pat my waist to make herself feel better. Her feeling my gun always puts her at ease and she gets a cute little smile on her face. It always makes me feel good because I know she feels more secure with me and my gun being in close proximity. This is not a deal breaker she just needs some more time to come around. Work on her slowly and after a few years you will be in good shape.



I disagree completely.

Forget the guns; she was, as another poster pointed out, taking out her grief ON HIM.

That is unacceptable and the hallmark of an extremely immature person.

[Carlos]

I'd call it off, were I you. This one is NOT a keeper.

JR

+1 Run away, fast. She's nothing but trouble.

[Working Man]

Rock,

My wife was carrying at our WEDDING.

THAT'S how you can tell a keeper...

lpl/nc

Now thats a keeper indeed. :D

[one-shot-one]

Sounds like she needs a sit-down discussion about concealed meaning concealed.

Kharn

most of us do not know the motivation of what went down, talk first act after you have an understanding of what happened and she has an understanding of what will happen in the future.

PS a week may be long enough wait to have the talk but if they were close expect at least a year to be "mostly over" the death of a parent.

[Lifeliberty]

who cares if she outed you. I don't see the big deal. can someone explain? please of point me in the direction of a thread discussing the matter. I don't understand why it is a big secret that somone is packing.

[lance22]

If you love the 2A, believe in carry on the basis of principle if not pragmatism, and want to be an activist for the cause ... you will always have to be less than youself in order to please her.

You can't be happy unless you experience personal growth. Being less than yourself is exactly the opposite.

This is a frequent topic, and the stories that I hear make me thankful for a wife who is supportive of the right to carry - anywhere and at all times.

[Blue Jays]

Hi Lifeliberty-

Welcome to one of the greatest firearm forums. I hope you enjoy your educational experience reading The High Road threads, I know I sure do!

My suggestion on why the woman making the reckless exclamation about the presence of a gun is a poor decision can be seen directly in this thread. Read each of the four previous pages to see how this could be a problem from a relationship, trust, and tactical point-of-view.

~ Blue Jays ~

[gezzer]

What is the big deal about carrying at a Funeral? It discrases no one but the idot complaining, EJECT EJECT EJECT!!

You aint even married and she treated you like that. If mine, she would be down the road.:banghead:

[Darth Ruger]

who cares if she outed you. I don't see the big deal. can someone explain?... I don't understand why it is a big secret that somone is packing.outing can be very dangerous. There was a case in PA some years ago where a man and his wife went to the bank. He was carrying and she knew it. Two BGs came into the bank and the wife said to her husband in a loud whisper 'don't draw your gun' .The BGs heard this and immediately killed him !!!Just one of several such incidents I've heard about.


please of point me in the direction of a thread discussing the matter.You're in it.

[gunsmith]

she called the cops and said "my BF is making threats and he has guns"
My threat was telling her I'm going to bed and she can argue with her self....thank God our other roomate was there.

[Mannlicher]

dump her quick, before you spend any more money on her. geez

[rudolf]

Grab under her skirt, and yell:
"Are you wearing your leather thong on a funeral??!!" :evil:

[mr.trooper]

LISTEN UP GUYS. THIS IS FOR ALL OF YOU.

This is guna ruffle alot of feather, but frankly, I DON'T CARE.

Lesson #1: NEVER under ANY circumstance, ask anyone of THR for relationship advice. They will all just tell you to dump the second party.

Lesson #2) ALL OF YOU BABIES WHo RUN AWAY FORM RELATIONSHIPS AT THE DROP OF A HAT NEED TO GROW UP.

My Mother is very anti-gun. My Father had his own gun shop. They have been married for Thirty years. Regardless of what these Arm-chair counselors will tell you, PEOPLE OF DIFFERENT BELIEFS CAN HAVE A LASTING RELATIONSHIP.

You will NEVER find a single person on the face of the Earth that believs exactly the same as you. GET OVER IT.

Marriage is about Working out your differences, and looking out for each other. This is true regardless of temporal things like politics or emotional swoons.

If you Love her, Then you should marry her.

THE REST OF YOU NEED TO GROW UP.

[JohnKSa]

mr. trooper,

This thread isn't about people with differing views.

It's about someone publicly humiliating someone they're supposed to love.

And it's about someone choosing a method to publicly humiliate which is potentially dangerous in many situations.Marriage is about Working out your differences, and looking out for each other.Exactly correct.

However, I'm afraid the young lady in question has indicated that she is not interested in working out the differences--she's working on eliminating those differences by shaming her fiancee into submission. And that's NOT the same thing--not at all.

In fact, outing a person's carry habits in public is pretty much the OPPOSITE of "looking out for each other."THE REST OF YOU NEED TO GROW UP.What? After all that talk about working out differences, now it turns out that you believe that anyone who disagrees with you is immature? Hmmmmm...

[Sam]

Now that everyone has told you to find someone new, the word is not outed. the proper term is disclosed.

Sam

[M-Rex]

If you Love her, Then you should marry her.

Unfortunately, that is not enough.

[Lupinus]

who cares if she outed you. I don't see the big deal. can someone explain? please of point me in the direction of a thread discussing the matter. I don't understand why it is a big secret that somone is packing.
Cause it makes you a target. You are in a bank and robbers come into the bank. Think they are shooting Grandma or the guy with a .44 magnum on his hip? It makes you a threat and the first thing a criminal will try to eliminate is a threat. That is why concealed carry is desireable. In some instances sure a big old gun strapped to your hip would stop a crime such as a mugging, but in others such as a bank robbery it makes you a target...of you don't get mugged and you jsut get shot in the back of the head.

So "Are you wearing your gun?!?" makes a big whoopsie and one that someday could cost you your life.

[Nematocyst]

Look over your head. You'll find two handles, painted in a yellow and black stripped pattern. Grasp those handles firmly, and pull forward and down. And brace for the ignition of rocket in the seat... LOL :D \

Oh, Rock, sorry for the laughter in your situation.

Been there, done that (slightly different reasons, but similar enough).

When I meet a woman these days, my first conversation goes something like this:

"Name?"

"Kids?" (If no, proceed.)

"Interests?" (If includes intellectual activities with some overlap to mine, music, outdoors (as in camping in big wilderness), sex...then proceed)

"How do you feel about guns?" (Negative is a deal stopper.)

I gotta go with the crowd here: grab them yellow & black handles, pull and enjoy the ride.

Condolenses, and I'm not talking about your girlfriends father.

Nem

PS: ok, ok, after reading the other three pages, maybe talk first. explain clearly, concisely & completely much of the advice in this thread, and that CCW is not negotiable, and that code words are required from henceforth.

If there is no agreement, then pull them handles...

[Hawkmoon]

I'd call it off, were I you. This one is NOT a keeper.

JR
Second.

First, she should have expected that if you routinely carry, you would carry at the funeral. Second, even if she hadn't expected it she certainly should have known enough to keep her pie hole closed about it in the middle of a crowd.

Call it off, and I am being absolutely serious about this. A marriage cannot succeed if the two people do not share core values. I should know, I've had three failed marriages and that was the bottom line in all three -- lack of a common value system. Your intended clearly does not share your values, and there WILL be problems over this in the future.

[Hawkmoon]

Relationships are about compromise....
Cow patties.

That's psycho-babble ... and it doesn't work. I spent several years as a marriage and family counselor. "Compromise" means that neither party feels satisfied, the one who compromised the most feels the least happy about it, and the resentment builds until the marriage fails due to weight of resentment.

A marriage can succeed only if two people enter it as whole, complete individuals and form a symbiotic union in which the whole is greater than the sum of the parts. This occurs when two whole, integrated people grow together based on a solid foundation of common values. It does not and CANNOT occur when the "marriage" is based on constantly making yourself less than you are in order to meet the other person's expectations.

[Hawkmoon]

Cause it makes you a target. You are in a bank and robbers come into the bank. Think they are shooting Grandma or the guy with a .44 magnum on his hip? It makes you a threat and the first thing a criminal will try to eliminate is a threat. That is why concealed carry is desireable. In some instances sure a big old gun strapped to your hip would stop a crime such as a mugging, but in others such as a bank robbery it makes you a target...of you don't get mugged and you jsut get shot in the back of the head.

So "Are you wearing your gun?!?" makes a big whoopsie and one that someday could cost you your life.
Correct.

How many people were within earshot of that remark? A lot -- and probably not all of them intimate friends of the family. While some friends of the family may simply be anti-gun and generate some negative feelings toward Rock as a result, the worst case scenario is that in that crowd might have been one of more persons who generate their livelihood by extra-legal means. Now they know he carries. As a result, they might avoid trying to rob him -- or they might target his home in the expectation of finding firearms, and they might decide that if they want to rob him personally the safe way to do it is to shoot first.

That's why her outing him was "not a good thing."

[Lupinus]

Hawk-
I don't believe it is cow patties. It is a matter of compromise but also one of acceptence of the other persons ways.

For instance- If your after work regiment consists of a few hours at the range everyday after work (or bar or some other such place...name your favorite) that is fine and well if you are a single guy. It is not if you are married. If she goes with you? GREAT. But she doesn't have to share all your hobbies. What she DOES have to do is accept that that is what you are into. Cutting down from everyday to a few times a week is acceptable and a compromise. The same goes for her hobbies, if she likes to go shopping everyday that needs to cut down as well if you dislike shopping.

Certian core values help, but unless it is something you can do together and enjoy you have to compromise a bit. Not outright give up that is cow patties, but compromise and cutback is far from cow patties.

That said back to certian core values helping comment I made above. There there is not room for compromise. If you believe in carrying daily she needs to get used to that. Does she have to like or agree with it? No, but she has to accept it and if she can't then it is hit the road time.

I don't agree with simply saying get out of there now without talking to her. Maybe you are the first person she knows that carries a gun? That even owns a gun? Such can be a big adjustment for someone esspecialy in out increasingly anti-gun culture that more and more people grow up in. Explain it to her, get it in her head and judge it from there.

[mr.trooper]

Ditto Lupi.

was it determined that she was actualy tyring to humiliate him? If so, then i missed it.

I think it hard to believe that she was trying to make him a target. I think it more likely that she simply wasnt thinking strait at the time, from all that was hapening.

If not, then Im sorry.

Regardless, i still think its rediculous that everyones first reaction to any bump in the road is "Drop her like a sack of potatoes!", or "Run away while you still can!". Its Childish to "Run like Hell" the first time you run ito a problem. If thats your reaction to someone who thinks differently than you, then you will never have a lasting relationsip. So what if she is manipulative? Women who are not are the EXCEPTION. Unless she is intentionaly trying to humiliate you, or constantly trying to degrade or defame you, or reacting irationaly, then you realy do need to get used to it.

If im missing soemthing, then by all means, fill me in. Some times facts get lost in all the jibberish.

[Lupinus]

I think it hard to believe that she was trying to make him a target.
Trying? No. But I don't think the wife that blurts out durring a bank robbery to her husband "don't pull your gun" is trying to make him a target either.

I think it more likely that she simply wasnt thinking strait at the time, from all that was hapening.
Quite likly. But down to it stress is stress. Being in a bank while its getting robbed or a gun to your head I would imagine is pretty darned stressful.

Other then that I agree.

[Quickdraw Limpsalot]

Lesson #1: NEVER under ANY circumstance, ask anyone of THR for relationship advice. They will all just tell you to dump the second party.


IMO, this is the bottom line and should be a no-brainer. (But I completely agree with the rest of your post, mr. trooper.)

[Nicky Santoro]

My future wife outed me in a crowd

She's a young woman and was very upset. Cut her some slack this time. Explain to her the necessity of controlling such outbursts even if she is upset. If something similar happens again, you might wish to reevaluate the entire situation.
BTDT

[Lifeliberty]

I understand a lot of the points made. I just don't think I would care in the funeral home. Upset women tend to over react. I do agree with the fact that brushing the gun should have been no big deal, but in my experience, give a woman a reason to bitch and she will. Again, this would not be a big deal for me, definitely not a deal breaker. I agree with discussing with her the need for some code words if you like.

[Raph84]

I have been to funerals of distant family members. It is a surreal experiance trying to grapple with the death of someone whom you were close to. I can only imagine that it would be much more intense an emotional experiance with the death of a parent.

There are stages in greif and coping and I think it is most likely that her noticing the gun snapped her into reality, that her father is dead and I/we could die at any minute (as the gun is a tool to help protect against that).

So maybee she simply reacted out of disbeleif/desire not to recognize reality.

A talk is in order, but it was a mistake that came out of a very emotional situation. There is no reason to beleive this problem can not be fixed.

my condolences to the family.

[Beethoven]

mr. trooper,

This thread isn't about people with differing views.

It's about someone publicly humiliating someone they're supposed to love.

And it's about someone choosing a method to publicly humiliate which is potentially dangerous in many situations.Exactly correct.

However, I'm afraid the young lady in question has indicated that she is not interested in working out the differences--she's working on eliminating those differences by shaming her fiancee into submission. And that's NOT the same thing--not at all.

In fact, outing a person's carry habits in public is pretty much the OPPOSITE of "looking out for each other."What? After all that talk about working out differences, now it turns out that you believe that anyone who disagrees with you is immature? Hmmmmm...


VERY well said!

[Hawkmoon]

Regardless, i still think its rediculous that everyones first reaction to any bump in the road is "Drop her like a sack of potatoes!", or "Run away while you still can!". Its Childish to "Run like Hell" the first time you run ito a problem. If thats your reaction to someone who thinks differently than you, then you will never have a lasting relationsip.
Yeah, you're right. It's much better to marry her, have two or three kids, argue a lot about the values you DON'T share in front of the kids and each partner try to get the kids on his/her side ... and THEN get the divorce.

The kids will thank you for it the rest of their lives, too.

Sheesh.

[A. Patriot]

I would print out this entire thread and let her read it. It may open her eyes to the seriousness of her actions and their possible future consequences..(ie remaining single)

It may also teach her the correct attitude that she shoud quickly develop.

[one45auto]

Yeah, you're right. It's much better to marry her, have two or three kids, argue a lot about the values you DON'T share in front of the kids and each partner try to get the kids on his/her side ... and THEN get the divorce.

The kids will thank you for it the rest of their lives, too.

Sheesh.


Amen!

I've been there and done that. Costly lesson, indeed. :banghead:

[XLMiguel]

Rockrivr, it seems you've got both oars in the water (as a veteran of BT, DT).

Bide your time, let the dust settle, take a few deep breaths, and have your talk. If cranial rectitus and emotional immaturity/instability is still in evidence, then you know what you've gotta do. Good luck to you, and best wishes for a happy outcome, whatever that may be.

[Greybeard7]

Well, with the marriage scheduled in five weeks, I think you've got a tough situation to deal with. After two years of dating, and being five weeks from getting married, it appears that you have invested a lot of time and emotion into this relationship.

I don't think I could just walk away without at least talking about it and what it really means to you and your future together. If she persists that you were wrong to carry at her fathers' funeral, that will be something that will come up again and again over the years and I don't think that bodes well for your future together. (I think that would definitely fall into the "bail out" scenario.)

What I haven't seen discussed here is what making that very public disclosure will really mean for you for some time. I'm not talking about any unscrupulous characters at the funeral. What I see is that at least several people will probably have conversations in the coming days about you carrying a concealed firearm at that funeral. Whether they are pro or con on gun issues, I firmly believe that some who heard that comment will find it notable enough to discuss with others and your name will be used. Who they have those conversations with, or who overhears them, could impact your personal safety and/or your risk of a burglary. (It could be an incident that is significant enough to some to mention in conversation for a long time.)

I believe that needs to be CLEARLY pointed out in your discussion. This isn't just an "oopsie", this is something that has the potential to endanger you and/or your home.

I guess all I can do is wish you the best of luck with whatever decision you make.

GB7

[444]

To me, this has almost nothing to do with concealed carry or her like/dislike of guns in general.
To ME it is the huge issue that she attempted to publically humiliate you. She airs her dirty laundry in public. She wasn't able to discuss private matters in private. She isn't able to keep a secret. She obviously is attempting to mold your behavior. This is just the tip of the iceberg.

I can tolorate some unusual behavior during times of stress. I deal with this almost every day. I have worked as a paramedic for over 20 years. I have told numerous parents that their child is dead and many other horrible episodes: too many to list. Just mentioning this brought back a laundry list of things I wish I never saw that I wish I could forget........... But for me, this funeral thing is way over the line and I would be gone like last night's steak dinner.


John Ross posted one sentence. I have found him to be a very intelligent and logical thinker. Someone who pays attention and is aware of the things going on around him. You might find his website interesting. He writes a great deal about his opinions on the beahavior of women. I am certainly no expert on anything, let alone women, but a lot of stuff he says is stuff I have observed over the years. I think he is right on the money about most of it based on my own life experiences. http://john-ross.net/ross_in_range.htm I would highly recommend that anyone thinking about getting married should read those articles on his webpage.

[HD]

"My future wife"
bail now b4 yr completely FORD...

[JohnKSa]

was it determined that she was actualy tyring to humiliate him? ... I think it more likely that she simply wasnt thinking strait at the time, from all that was hapening.According to the initial story, there were TWO incidents on TWO consecutive days. So much for the "oops" theory. This is a pattern of behavior, not a single momentary abberation. I stand by my earlier comments.

In my opinion, she's got an agenda (conscious or unconscious) and the stress of the current situation is a convenient excuse to begin implementation.

As far as this type of thread almost always turning into a "dump him/her fest", there's a GOOD reason for that. By the time a person is frustrated enough to sit down and post a problem they're having with a love interest/spouse, things have generally gone beyond the "Honey, let's talk it over and then kiss and make up." stage.

[Gaiudo]

The fact that she blurting something out twice in public, at a very stressful time in someone's life (hello, losing a father, five weeks before marriage!!??!), quite simply does not mean she was trying to "publically humiliate" you. I see a rather clear link between the two: first, an emotional reaction when, already distraught, she makes you and reacts to it. Ok, not what some of us would prefer from women who have daily exposure to guns, but probably something most women would do in a similar experience. Secondly, having this already imprinted on her emotions for that evening, the second incident I think does not relate NEAR as much to "public humiliation" (if at ALL), but rather to the state she was in. The fact of the matter is, most women DON'T wear guns to their own wedding, though many of us might fantasize so.

This should not be the litmus test of your relationship. Rather, you should be asking, from the two years you have had together, have you discerned a strong mutual committment for a lifetime together, regardless of the conflicts (believe me, MUCH worse will come than that over firearms), and when those conflicts come how will you relate over the long haul? Those who are willing to bail when the going gets tough will simply experience the same kind of relational loss repeatedly, regardless of the person they are will. A marriage is not a "single issue vote." Those are the questions you should ask concerning your relationship, and if you can't honestly answer those in the affirmative concerning her commitment to her, then you probably have no business getting marriage; and if you can't answer in the affirmative concerning your own commitment, then you have no business marrying anyone to whom you cannot make a similar covenant.

Guns are wonderful, and you will have a lifetime to lead her and teach her. But female emotional reactions at times of high stress should not be the litmus test for marriage, regardless of our own "Louis Le'meour" Sackett fantasies.

[mr.trooper]

...

[JohnKSa]

Gaiudo,

Sorry, but as I posted earlier, I don't believe stress changes what's inside, it merely reveals it.

The issue isn't that she's blurting things out under stress, it's WHAT she's blurting out under stress and the fact that in she seems to be making a point of doing it in public situations.

It's not about guns either, although the fact that it is elevates it a bit from the level of merely blurting out the color of one's underwear. No matter how embarrassing or inappropriate that might be, it's not possible for it to get you killed. What she's doing could conceivably do just that in the proper (though admittedly unlikely) situation.

What it's about is that she seems to have a problem with his behavior, and rather than attempting to solve the problem by working through it, she's broaching it loudly in public.

It's dirty pool. She brings it up loudly in front of bystanders in a situation where he can't respond in a constructive manner without making things worse. Then, in spite of the fact that she knows got him to lie publicly the first time--which should have been AMPLE evidence that he's, at the VERY least, touchy on the subject--she essentially repeats the tactic with a slight twist the next day.

It smacks of intentional humiliation and intimidation.

Not good things in a relationship.

And not the kind of traits one should look for in a spouse.

[Gaiudo]

JohnKSA,

Unfortunately, stress often does promote undesireable reactions (undesireable even in the eyes of the actor), in many circumstances with untried persons. This should be understood, though educated and trained for the better.

As for the public humiliation bit, there is probably a good way to address that. Simply sit down and have a candid conversation with the girl, avoid the confrontational "DON'T EVER DO THAT AGAIN TO ME IN PUBLIC" kind of rhetoric (guaranteed to produce more defensive, offensive situations), and simply ask what her purpose was in making the second statement. If she indeed says it was to "publicly humiliate" or "teach you a lesson" or anything of the sort, then I agree, this is not the kind of person I would chose to be tied to in any way. On the other hand, if it is simply a case of "I was emotionally ragged, distraught, and I am sorry that I put you in a bad position" this would probably reveal a fairly different side of things. Again, honesty in relationships should be rather important, especially five weeks before marriage....

Perhaps I missed it, but does age come into play here? This is honestly the kind of reaction I would expect from a 23 year old young lady unaccustomed to firearms. Not my daughter, or my wife (the second NOW knows better, and I plan on teaching the first as the time comes), but again, fairly typical. However, if we are treating a 35 lady who one would expect to have the maturity to tame the tongue, even under such duress, I would have to wonder about the potential for future progress.

Someone posted before that you can't change someone; no, you shouldn't go into a relationship expecting to "change" them. However, maturity happens. A young lady, if possessing qualities and traits suggesting a good mate, should not be disregarded for simple immaturity that most would recognize as fairly typical.

However, I agree with alot of people here on this: its not normal for someone to come to a gunboard, complaining about something like this and asking marital questions, and it being the ONLY cause for his discomfort. Perhaps you should examine things on a wider level. Although, I know that cold feet does seem to kick in about that time..... However, regardless of the timing, to remove yourself now from a relationship in which you consider trapped will be MUCH easier and less painfull for all parties then five years down the road.

In resumation, I would again suggest that some wisdom is clearly needed in such evaluations as this, and should have been taking place for the past two years. If you are not in the position now where you can confirm being committed to live with this person for as long as you live, regardless of the circumstances (i.e., cool-headedness over guns and funerals, or the lack thereof) then indeed you had best look elsewhere, for I doubt you will be anytime soon. I do not thing this isolated occurance should not be the litmus test for your relationship. If however, it points to something deeper, which you have seen as an underlying constant, that should alert you to something.

Regardless of the armchair counceling you see going on here (myself included), none of the posters here know your fiance. You have had the opportunity to gauge her over a two year period. Simply examine what you know of her. I guarantee you will be able to see the picture clearer than anyone here who has no broader perspective on this girl. Make an honest, honorable evaluation in light of those two years (and, this circumstance as well). Luck.

[bachman1961]

Yeah... you need to educate her a bit on the points of guns / carry / etc..
I don't think it is realistic to hold someone accountable even though it may seem "common sense". If she indeed is a 'blabbermouth' about stuff in general, I have little doubt it would be 'surefire' problems and you'd probably already know that about her. Best of luck...

[Lex]

RockRivr1,

Have you and the Fiance' discussed (in the past) your desire to CCW? Or was this all a big surprise?
Doesn't sound as if her family is all that keen on CCW either. Trust me, you do marry the family.
It will become an issue later as you have kids or are subjected to being around family members' kids..."Is he carrying? I don't want my precious little darlings to be around guns", etc, etc.

Sounds as if it's time for a serious heart-to-heart with the fiance'. This (CCW) is more than a "lifestyle", it's a very serious responsibility.

I called off a wedding 1 month prior to the date...it just didn't feel right. We were in a bad place and getting married wasn't going to erase underlying issues.

Deep down, you know what you feel and you know what needs to be done.


Lex in NC

[444]

One more thing from me and I will shut up.

IMO, we as a society tend to insist on finding reasons for things appearently in order to excuse them. For example: we might know for an absolute fact that someone murdered someone else. But we have to spend a lot of time trying to figure out why, as if that will change anything about the situation. In this case, I don't really care why this happened. The fact is that it happened and I would spend the rest of my life wondering when it is going to happen again. I would be wondering how stable she is. If she lost it with the stress of her father's passing, just how much stress does it take for her to lose it ? Is it OK to disregard his feelings, their trust etc. every time she gets stressed ? Can I count on her to keep it together during all the other stresses life has to offer over a lifetime of marriage ? She might be fine. She might be a rock from now on. But, you will never know. It happened once and that will always be there, in the back of your mind.
IMO, the pre-marriage days are the good days. They are the days when both of you are on your best behavior. Things will only go downhill from here once that ring is on her finger.
If she is publically announcing your personal business in front of a crowd at the funeral home, what do you think the chances are that she will discuss all manner of personal business with her friends and family over the years ? Is this OK with you ? And if she is so willing to share, I am sure those people will freely give her advice: which she will happily share with you........

[BluesBear]

For those who advocate cutting her some slack because she was under stress consider this...

What will she blurt out at the top of her lungs if you're even in a life or death situation?

Suppose you're standing in line at a convenience store when Joey Numbnuts decides to pull his revolver and scrounge up some extra beer money from the register?

Will she scream out, "LOOK HONEY HE'S GOT A GUN JUST LIKE YOURS?" :what:


What will she yell in public if she ever gets angry with you?


There are some bigger problems here that just firearms.

[444]

And if she does blurt out something like that, is that OK because she is stressed ?

Not with me it isn't.

[GunGoBoom]

Agreed. Demote her status from future wife down to girlfriend, until after the heart to heart talks, and conciliation (or not) that flows therefrom.

[stevelyn]

Guns are wonderful, and you will have a lifetime to lead her and teach her.

If you have to "lead and teach" to get her to accept you, you really do need to look for someone else.

[Infidel]

I think that JohnKSa is right on the mark. It isn't about guns, it's about humiliating the other in public. It's about behaviour toward the other in public. If the gun issue disappears, then she will find some other way to get stressed and to produce public put-downs.

I would eject, rat now.

[Hawkmoon]

The issue isn't that she's blurting things out under stress, it's WHAT she's blurting out under stress and the fact that in she seems to be making a point of doing it in public situations.

It's not about guns either, although the fact that it is elevates it a bit from the level of merely blurting out the color of one's underwear. No matter how embarrassing or inappropriate that might be, it's not possible for it to get you killed. What she's doing could conceivably do just that in the proper (though admittedly unlikely) situation.
I agree with this only partially.

I think it IS about guns. The first incident, well maybe we could write it off as surprise ... even though she certainly should have been smart/adult enough to hold the comment/question until later.

But the second incident, IMHO, shows what's really happening. "You put the cards in the GUN safe?" Why the emphasis on "GUN"? It's a safe, right? It's undoubtedly the most secure repository in the house. Why question putting things of monetary or sentimental value into the most secure place in the house?

Answer: because there are GUNs in there. Taken in context with her reaction at the funeral the day before, I am of the opinion that this young woman somehow feels that her father's memory has been defiled, by the presence of a GUN at the funeral, and by putting the sympathy cards in a GUN safe.

Actions speak louder than words, and her actions say loud and clear that deep down inside, she believes that guns are dirty, ugly, evil things.

This is not a good thing. It does not bode well for the future of this proposed marriage.

[John Ross]

John Ross posted one sentence. I have found him to be a very intelligent and logical thinker. Someone who pays attention and is aware of the things going on around him. You might find his website interesting. He writes a great deal about his opinions on the beahavior of women. I am certainly no expert on anything, let alone women, but a lot of stuff he says is stuff I have observed over the years. I think he is right on the money about most of it based on my own life experiences. http://john-ross.net/ross_in_range.htm I would highly recommend that anyone thinking about getting married should read those articles on his webpage.

Thanks for the kind words, 444. Here are some things to remember:

1. All of a woman's bad habits will persist and worsen after marriage.

2. Women initiate between 75%-80% of all divorces because the Family Court system rewards them for "cashing out." They keep the kids and continue to get the ex's paycheck.

Since the Family Court rewards women's bad behavior, when a man comes here to THR describing red flags he's received from his fiancee, the ONLY logical advice is to call off the wedding.

Still want to get married? Okay, then do this: Tell Cupcake that you will uphold your wedding vows for exactly one HOUR longer than she does. Tell her what "Love, honor, and cherish" means to you. If, for example, it means no shaming language, no withholding sex, and no going into debt, TELL HER THAT. Explain that you will Ernest Borgnine her @ss the instant she breaks her vows. If this phrase is unfamiliar to you, read a piece I wrote at

http://www.john-ross.net/marriage_ii.htm

and you'll get the picture. There's a reason that men are currently on a marriage strike...

JR

[JohnKSa]

Unfortunately, stress often does promote undesireable reactionsNo argument there--NONE at all. The undesirable reaction would be blurting something out loudly in public. That could easily be a normal reaction to unusual stress.

However WHAT she said is not a product of the stress--WHAT she said was in there already--just waiting for an excuse to come out. Clearly, it's not possible for stress to suddenly create in her an antipathy toward his carry behavior in the instant that she discovered he was carrying. WHAT she said was a product of internal issues unrelated to the stress of the moment that caused them to be suddenly revealed.

Whether she consciously set out to humiliate or intimidate him is, perhaps questionable--it's very difficult to say what a person's motives are with 100% accuracy. However, the fact that she did and then repeated it after a relatively brief interval is strong evidence that this tactic is a pattern of behavior. And that's very worrisome. That's not a constructive tactic to employ in a relationship. I'm willing to bet that if the original poster was truly honest with himself and us he would admit that either she or one of her parents frequently (or at least habitually) uses this approach.I think it IS about guns. The first incident, well maybe we could write it off as surprise ... even though she certainly should have been smart/adult enough to hold the comment/question until later.Agreed-- my comment was poorly stated. I should have said that while guns provided the focus of the disagreement this time, the tactic she used was more disturbing than her apparent issues with guns.

And, finally, I have to agree with Mr. Ross. While his comments are more "big picture" than mine, his facts are indisputable. And, as 444 says, the courting days are the best (in terms of behavior) things typically go downhill from there.

[Mnemesyne]

On a side note....stop with the women bashing...not all of us females are out to steal every hard earned thing you own...As a matter of fact, I walked away with just what I entered into my past marriages with...Simply because my life was worth more then quibbling over possessions....Not all women are evil, manipulative twits....please don't lump us all into the same basket just because you managed to find a bad apple or two....

With only 5 weeks to your wedding, that talk had best come quickly...Simply put, people tend to change after you get married (some for the better and some for the worst) so things that raise red flags now, will most certainly raise red flags post marriage.....Just some food for thought....

Death in the family is no reason to out someone for carrying a firearm period...Like others have said, if she does it then, what will happen when your lives depend on that gun and she outs you and then (heaven forbid) something horrible happens as a result of her outing you again....


If you truly love each other, postponing the wedding a bit longer won't hurt either of you in the least.....

Mneme

[JohnKSa]

I don't think anyone is really trying to woman bash--I'm certainly not.

I'd give the same advice to a woman if she posted this about HER fiancee.

The reality of who typically "wins" (I know, what a stupid word to use in the context of divorce) in divorces isn't debatable, but it is a statistic, not an absolute rule. That means that there are exceptions.

Furthermore, I think it's very rare for ANYONE, man or woman, to enter a relationship with the idea that they're going to use the situation to their financial benefit. Unfortunately it often turns into something like that over time, and when it does, the majority of the time it's the woman who comes out with more than she went in with... Again, that's not an absolute rule nor is it a commentary on women in general.

[444]

As was mentioned, it isn't women bashing to speak the truth:
Every decision you make requires a risk vs. reward accessment. If the risks are large, your tendency is to play it safe and not take on that risk. However, if the risk is low and the reward is good, this takes a whole lot less thought. This is the situation MOST women are in with today's court system. If they decide they are not happy (for whatever reason), they have the option to get a divorce. The risk is very small: losing her husband: if she is at this point anyway, this isn't going to be a big loss to her. The reward however is most likely everything her husband owns and a portion of his future earnings as well as a piece of his pension. If she was a house wife, he pays for her training/education to get a job. While she is being educated, he pays her keep. She usually gets to keep the kids and he pays for that also. He pays for the health insurance, her car and basically anything she wants. It is a very rare man who manages better than that in a divorce. Some manage far worse. For example, at any time, the woman can call the police and say he hit her and he will be out of the house immediately in handcuffs, and he will probably lose his right to own a gun. This usually also means that his guns are confiscated. Of course you can spend 10k or more on an attorney to fight it.


Or, you can just not get married and eliminate the whole senario.

[Rockrivr1]

To be honest I started this thread as a way to blow off some steam and to see what some of you thought about this situation. I am surprised at the amount of responses and I appreciate all the different advise given. It's given me a lot to think about.

[TonkinTwentyMil]

...over the strong guidance to the contrary expressed here...

Then, at least take these two steps:

1. Get a PRE-NUPTIAL AGREEMENT drafted by a good lawyer that specifically spells out your position on guns, self-defense/carry issues, etc., and wherein she specifically agrees (a) to support you 100% in this area, (b) in absolute confidence, (c) and will NEVER disclose your firearm ownership to any lawyer/judge/LEO in the event of a hot domestic dispute, and (d) waives ANY claim to any of your guns in the event of a divorce/property settlement. Yeah, I know this has some enforceability issues, but IF she balks at this "test," then she flunks -- and that's the ballgame.

2. PROMISE US grouchy old unromantic High Roaders that you'll report back here to us within the next 3 years... if you're kicking your own ass because "we toldja" (i.e., on your way to divorce court... and losing your guns).

Life is short, and then you die... happy. Or, unhappy. Your choice.

[Firehand]

You need to have a sit-down with her, dead serious, about this. It's possible she was just upset because of the general situation, but maybe not.

I did a post on my site once the subject of which was "do not expect someone to change; on rare occasions or for special reason someone may, but generally it won't happen". You need to make sure that this was not an indication of her actions in the future. If it is, you've got a real problem, and a decision to make.

And telling yourself "It'll get better later" is NOT a good idea. I thought that about a problem with my ex-wife, which is why she's my ex.

[TimboKhan]

Dump her.

[DagoRed]

Personally I wouldnt think of carrying a gun into a funeral, concealed or not. I can't help think that unless you live in a very crime ridden neighborhood, doing that speaks to paranoia or insecurities.

Dont get me wrong, I believe in CCW and own many weapons, but really, seems out of place there.

Maybe that is just me.

[Hawkmoon]

Personally I wouldnt think of carrying a gun into a funeral, concealed or not. I can't help think that unless you live in a very crime ridden neighborhood, doing that speaks to paranoia or insecurities.

Dont get me wrong, I believe in CCW and own many weapons, but really, seems out of place there.

Maybe that is just me.
Do you not wear a seat belt when driving in a funeral procession?

[444]

I agree.
There are places that are totally immue to violent crime and there is no need to be able to defend yourself there.
You are also granted safe passage to and from these completely safe locations. If you need to stop at the store, or get gas or anything on the way to and from these completely safe places, you are also immue from violent crime. This includes all incidents of road rage directed toward anyone going to, or coming from a "safe place".
It's the rules. All the bad guys know and follow these rules religiously.

By the same token, carriers of concealed weapons know exactly when and where they are going to need them. They know when the need to carry and when they don't because they are aware of the same rules as the bad guys (see above). They know there are "safe neighborhoods", as well as the locations that are completely safe (see above). They also know that if they need to defend themselves or their families exactly what the senario is going to be and they don't need to practice anything else.

[444]

Double Tap

[Nematocyst]

444, I'm snickering pretty hard here...

[JohnKSa]

DagoRed,

Could you please post a list of all the places that you think would make me paranoid if I carried in them?

Also, if you don't mind, could you please post a sentence or so with each location on the list explaining why criminals would not consider committing violent crimes in these locations?

THANKS!

John

[TonkinTwentyMil]

Personally I wouldnt think of carrying a gun into a funeral, concealed or not. I can't help think that unless you live in a very crime ridden neighborhood, doing that speaks to paranoia or insecurities.

Dont get me wrong, I believe in CCW and own many weapons, but really, seems out of place there.

Maybe that is just me.

-----------------------------------

Okay, now children. Let's all join hands and sing...

"Kumbaya, my lord, Kumbaya...

[Nematocyst]

By the way, DagoRed, welcome to THR.

We're a pretty routy, if intelligent bunch here, who sometimes even agree with each other. (But that's mostly over issues of which 12 ga shot is best for {choose one or more: ducks, squirrels, turkey, home defense, TEOTWAWKI...} or which 9 mm loads are best for SHTF events (see Paris, below).

Most of us would recommend starting in one of the gun forums with a question or two before venturing into such forums as "social situations" or "legal & political" with a strong opinion.

As you can see, newbies can get fried pretty quickly. (Caveat: be very careful with upstart retorts; the moderators here put up with very little crap; member ban is a real possibility.)

So, the rule here is, newbies buy the drinks, not to mention sometimes, as in your case, a box of ammo for all. :D

I'll take a box of 9mm 125 Golden Saber JHP, please.

Seems champagne is in order in honor of a potentially postponed wedding & the French riots.

I'll take a 1967 Modone Cadet creme de la Eiffel, extra dry.

OK, I totally made that up. Last champaign I drank was at my own wedding. Marriage lasted 4 years. Somehow, we didn't discuss the issue of kids. She wanted them, I didn't. End of story. Hey, is there a parallel here over guns? Rhetorical question, of course. Everyone discusses the issue of guns before marriage, right?

Right?

Guys? Anybody? Right????

[BluesBear]

Well I figured out long ago that if I didn't produce any children I'd actually have money to afford guns & musical instruments. As well as the time to use and enjoy each.

[Meta4]

Let's keep this in perspective. Your fiancée was under emotional distress because she was sitting at a funeral for her father who died unexpectedly five weeks before her wedding.

If there is one thing I've found is nearly universal amongst girls and young women, it's that all of them have had some kind of mental picture of their fairytale fantasy wedding in mind since early childhood. Your fiancée's "fairytale" probably involved being escorted down the aisle by her father, who is laying in a casket a few feet away from her. He had the audacity to die a mere month before her wedding, thereby sending her lifelong "fairytale" dream into a headspin at the last possible moment.

Was her response wrong? Yeah. Absolutely. Talk to her about it. I'll be the first to admit that her response might be indicative of greater problems, but if this was an honest slip then treat it as such. Honestly, if you're five weeks away from your wedding and you're just now seeing these problems, you probably need to postpone the wedding anyway.

I realize I might be a bit "old school" when it comes to marriage, but I think the whole "Until death do you part" thing actually means something. If you're five weeks away from your marriage and you're reconsidering your commitment because of one slip (no matter how big), you're moving way too fast for your own good! As men, we have an obligation to our wives/fiancées/girlfriends to handle whatever we commit ourselves to. Marriage is certainly one of the biggest commitments that we've got.

You need to take some time out to examine your relationship with your fiancée. I'd recommend spending an hour or two reflecting on the past two years. You need to determine for yourself whether or not her reaction was a slip caused by grief and stress, or something much more fundamental. If it was just a slip, I'd recommend talking to her about it and moving on. I carry whenever I can and I'd be very disappointed if my SO outed me, but I guarantee I wouldn't terminate our relationship because of that simple act alone.

"Love" isn't a feeling, nor is it an emotion. Happiness is an emotion, as is sadness and anger, but love? That's a commitment. Love says, "I want to spend the rest of my life with you, come what may." Love says, "I've seen your faults, and I accept them." Love doesn't make you want to change your spouse, it makes you want to change your own life.

Do you really love your fiancée? The Bible says that "Love is longsuffering and slow to anger." If you really love her, you'll be patient with her. That's the true mark of a mature man.

This thread has offered some excellent advice and some patently bad advice, but the decision is ultimately yours to make. To the best of my knowledge, nobody on this forum knows your fiancée as intimately as you do. Whether this incident remains a molehill or is turned into a mountain is your decision. Choose wisely.

-James

[DagoRed]

I participate in numerous gun forums, this isnt the only one. Just stated my opinion. Cant say I have heard of many violent crimes at funerals, maybe it is more common where some of you live. I grew up sandwiched between the south side of Chicago and Gary Indiana. Dont remember too many gunfights at funerals there either. Witnessed shootings in my young days through my twenties, had friends involved in gun play. One of my best friends was a cop killed in the line of duty with a weapon. Several of my high school classmates died before reaching 20. But, unless someone is a gang banger, I doubt there is a lot of risk inside the funeral home excluding Aunt Edna wanting to kiss ya.

If I felt I needed to be feel safe in traffic going to or coming home from a funeral, I would keep the piece in the glove compartment during the funeral.

Time and place I feel. My opinion anyway, and while you might not agree, I guess I have a right to it just as you guys do yours. I suppose I just never felt threatened at a funeral. Just where do you guys live that funerals are such a high risk venture?

If you could help me understand, how many have had to defend themselves at any time from a threat of violent physical assault while burying a loved one? I guess I am just lucky so far.

dr

oh, btw, I did have a flat tire at a funeral once, but luckily didnt have to shoot anyone because of it. :)

[Strings]

hmmm... last funeral I was at before mom died was my aunt Juanita's in MO. During the lunch afterward, several of us were standing around, comparing what we were carrying. Seems most of the group was armed fairly well. Guess we're just paranoid, huh?

Oh... carried at mom's funeral, too. Maybe I'm overtrained, but I can NOT loose control while armed. Given that there were several members of the family that had me angry due to their fake shows of greif, the pistol at my side was a good idea (and actually kept them alive)...

To each their own. If you feel uncomfortable packing at a funeral, wedding, what have you, then don't. But don't disparage others who choose to...

[DagoRed]

My apologies to anyone who felt I dispared them, it really wasnt my intention. Just didnt understand the pyschological need to carry at a family members funeral.

[hso]

DagoRedm

Welcome.

If you agree that it can be appropriate to have the gun going to and from the funeral (just like anywher else), is it safer to have the gun on you and under your control once you get to the funeral or left in your car subject to theft?

For the newlywed,

You need to have a talk with the bride and verify that she doesn't have any feelings against you carrying in general. If you get through that gate then you have the opportunity to use 444's argument and that she is more precious to you than life itself and no one's going to send a RSVP invitation to an act of violence against her or your as yet unconceived children.

[DagoRed]

DagoRedm

Welcome.

If you agree that it can be appropriate to have the gun going to and from the funeral (just like anywher else), is it safer to have the gun on you and under your control once you get to the funeral or left in your car subject to theft?



Depending on where you live, you might feel the need to carry in the vehicle. But, following that arguement, you would need to carry to and into church, the hospital, the airport, etc. Some times it might be necessary to risk life and limb and leave it home, rather than carry a weapon into inappropriate places. At least something to consider.

[JohnKSa]

Just where do you guys live that funerals are such a high risk venture?I'm not saying funerals are high risk, but I carry everywhere. Because crime can happen everywhere. We had a spate of church robberies in my area some time ago--I figure anyone who'd commit an armed robbery at a church wouldn't see a funeral as sacrosanct.

I'm curious to know what evidence you used to determine that criminals won't commit violent crimes at a funeral.

[Hawkmoon]

I realize I might be a bit "old school" when it comes to marriage, but I think the whole "Until death do you part" thing actually means something. If you're five weeks away from your marriage and you're reconsidering your commitment because of one slip (no matter how big), you're moving way too fast for your own good! As men, we have an obligation to our wives/fiancées/girlfriends to handle whatever we commit ourselves to. Marriage is certainly one of the biggest commitments that we've got.
Ummm ... not one but two slips, on successive days. Both slips indicative of less than whole-hearted support for and understanding of concealed carry, self-defense, and GUNS in general.

[Hawkmoon]

My apologies to anyone who felt I dispared them, it really wasnt my intention. Just didnt understand the pyschological need to carry at a family members funeral.
"Psychological need"?

As 444 attempted to convey, it is impossible to predict when you might be accosted by one or more individuals who wish to separate you from your money, your valuables, perhaps even your significant other and/or your life. The fact that you have never been attacked at a funeral means precisely that you have never been attacked at a funeral. Past history does not in any way or to any degree affect the statistical probability that you might be attacked at the next one you attend.

It's like flipping a coin. Doesn't matter if you get 49 tails in a row, the chances of getting heads on the 50th toss are still 1:2.

This has nothing to do with "psychological need." It has to do with an intellectual decision to be prepared, like a good boy scout. I am puzzled why you seem to find this so difficult to comprehend.

[el44vaquero]

Just have a talk with her. Don't cut bait yet. It would be interesting to see how many of these guys that so easily say to ditch her are actually single.

[raghorn]

My apologies to anyone who felt I dispared them, it really wasnt my intention. Just didnt understand the pyschological need to carry at a family members funeral.

You have completely missed the point, DR. This thread is not about the pros and cons of CCW at funerals.

[Strings]

>It would be interesting to see how many of these guys that so easily say to ditch her are actually single.<

Well... *I'm* married. ANd my wife, upon reading the original post, said "EJECT!!!"

[twoblink]

http://www.john-ross.net/ross_in_range.htm

He has quite a few writings about marriage; read it, I don't agree with some of it, but it's food for thought.

That said:

If you have no idea about my history; let me give you the short short short version.

I was dating a woman for 7 years, and while we have our ups and downs, we were engaged to be married. Then she did something that foreshadowed her "real" feelings towards guns..

The problem isn't "guns", it's their view on self-protection, and the rights you have as to self-defense as well as your responsibility as the man of the house to protect yourself, and your loved ones.

Quite a few people told me "But you've invested 7 years of your life, and you want to throw all that away over a few guns??"

One of the pillars of good investing is: Don't throw good money after bad money. So if I've spent 7 years on that relationship, it'd be stupid for me to invest even more time into it. So, I dropped her like 4th period French class.

Was it easy to break up after 7 years?? Heck no! But, since I just got married to a lovely woman who is very very pro CCW, I am so thankful I didn't "go down that road". So I speak from experience.

Want to know something else that's crazy? My wife and I have never had an arguement, where as my ex and I would argue about guns all day long. I always thought, that I'd one day, be able to bring her over to "our side" but the fact that she's on the wrong side to begin with, should have been a warning flag.

If you ever watch movies, you'll know statistically, if someone was killed, the killer will most likely show up at the funeral. So packing at the funeral seems like a good idea to me!! And as I experienced yesterday, I think packing all the time whenever and whereever you can is a great idea. The life you save, might not be your own.

It's difficult, but you have to think about it. If I were you, I'd drop her, and find someone who is more "aligned" to your viewpoints. I speak from experience, and I am so glad I did what I did!!

Remember, tears of regret will rust a gun even if it has CLP on it, and losing 50% of your assets to some gun-hater is just going to add insult to injury.

[BluesBear]

I'd probably say something like this,
"Why yes Dear I have most certainly have a gun with me today.
You I'm certain that I had one with me yesterday.
And you can be certain my gun will be with me tomorrow too.
In fact the only thing uncertain around here is, Will you be with me tomorow?"
:D

Or, if you're not the uncouth smartass that I am, you could say,
"I'm very sorry, but your Father isn't here to take care of you anymore. That's going to become my responsibility. And I take that responsibility very seriously."



I would keep the piece in the glove compartment during the funeral.Do you have any idea how many firearms are stolen out of motor vehicles each year in the US? :scrutiny:

What needs to be understood and apparently is not understood by both Rockrivr1's EX and DagoRed is that if you CCW you need to have control of that weapon at all times. And a gun "in the glove compartment" is NOT under control. And in several states there are laws that collaborate that fact.

For most of my life the only time my girlfriend would have been surprised would be if she had discovered I had left the house and was NOT carrying.
I carried at both of my parents funerals. I've carried at weddings too.
I've carried at church, I've carried to the library.

The biggest thing to remember is that old cliche, Concealed means Concealed!
And a very big part of concealment is keeping your pie hole shut.
Concealment is a joint responsibility.


Out of sight is out of mind.
Unless you're out of your mind and then you can just stay out of my sight.

[DagoRed]

In the end, I have no problem with being prepared, and I am completely in agreement that we have a right, if not a down right responsibility to be prepared to protect our loved ones.

[Rockrivr1]

Update:

For whatever reason my fiance and I do a lot of our best talking to each other when we get up on the weekends. Basically we sit in bed and just go over stuff. It's nice and breakfast in bed on a Sunday is the norm. Well this past weekend I decided to have this talk with her and was completely blindsided by the conversation at first.

To preface this conversation I'll have to say that I screwed up in a way myself. I had a handgun stored in my truck and I forgot to take it out prior to dropping it off for service on Thursday. I put it into her SUV without to much thought, but I left it there and didn't take it out when we got home. She found the case it was locked in and she was a little upset about that. So the conversation Saturday morning started the whole conversation about how she didn't like having it there without her knowing it. In this she is right and I took responsibility for it. Dumb on my part.

This lead to the rest of the coversation where I told her that I'd been CCWing since July and that I thought she knew. Well I realized that she didn't by the complete look of shock on her face. The conversation after that could of been scripted by any anti ccw handbook. She started asking why I needed to CCW, did it make me feel cool, did I want to be a cop, do I feel in danger, why am I so much into guns lately, what if you take it out and the bad guy takes it from you and shoots you, what if I get mad at her and take it out and point it at her, did my parents know, what would they say if she told them, she doesn't want our baby to be in danger because I left it lying around, etc etc. Geez, it was like a debate i wasn't really prepared for.

I answer each question as best I could, but I couldn't help but get a little pissed in the process. I think she noticed this because she backed off. Basically my last response was something to the effect that she knew about my gun hobbie when we started dating and if she had a problem with it she should of mentioned it way before now.

The final outcome was that I told her that I am going to continue to CCW and she stated that I had better be careful. I told her I aways am careful and I carry to make sure that we are safe. The conversation went very well after that and she asked me to get dressed with my gun because she never noticed it before. I did so and she said that she'd noticed the slight bulge in my pocket, but she never registered it was a gun.

Then I got serious with her and basically told her that I never wanted to hear she told anyone about this. My parents, her family, our friends, nobody. I told her if she did then I would know I could never trust her. She promised not to ever again and for whatever reason I believe her. Since that conversation we've been with many family members and friends. So far she's kept her word and I fully expect that to continue. I hope I'm not being niave.

Things seem to be fine now. I know a lot of you said I should dump her and eject, but that just seems wrong to me right down to my soul. Does that sound dumb? I hope not, because at this point the wedding is still on. I really hope I don't live to regret this decision, but at this point going forward with our life together seems right to me.

Hummmm, maybe getting to personal for this board. I apologize as this has gone way past normal gun conversation.

[John Ross]

Things seem to be fine now. I know a lot of you said I should dump her and eject, but that just seems wrong to me right down to my soul. Does that sound dumb? I hope not, because at this point the wedding is still on. I really hope I don't live to regret this decision, but at this point going forward with our life together seems right to me.

You need to make sure she realizes what your deal-killers are. Here's the problem: Most men have integrity to their word, while most women have integrity to their feelings. When we vow to love, honor, and cherish, we intend to do so even when we don't much feel like it. Women, as a rule, change their minds according to how they're feeling. Does this describe all women? Of course not. Might yours be like this? Possibly.

Go ahead if you must, but the FIRST time she breaks her wedding vows, file for divorce. After your health, your most important asset is TIME.

Good luck.

JR

[SpookyPistolero]

First off, I agree, in general, with John Ross's statement that men most often feel integrity is keeping their word, while women feel they must stay true to their feelings.

I commend you for sticking with the relationship and for most importantly trusting your gut. No matter how much you write about your reality here, no one who is giving advice will know the entire situation. It will all just be spitballing, because we're not in your shoes. So good job trusting your gut, because it's usually right in my experience.

It sounds to me like your fiance just didn't know how to digest an idea that was so radical to her. If you DO YOUR HOMEWORK and learn good explanations of the logic and reasoning behind keeping and bearing arms, then you will be much more persuasive and effective in gaining her understanding. Try http://www.a-human-right.com/ , which is Oleg's site, to try to show your point of view.

I think a cornerstone of a good relationship is that both parties make themselves clear and both listen clearly. Let her know how you feel, how strongly you feel about it, what her not understanding that can mean (and be willing to follow through).

Incidentally, the way she acted sounds very much like most of the stories I've read around here with guys who were just getting into guns and were trying to explain it to their wives. First the knee jerk stuff, maybe anger, then curiosity, acceptance. If you're lucky, then you get transcendence, where they actually ask to come to the range with you. :)

Remember you're working against years of ingrained re-education from the leftist media and general societal bombardment against guns in general.

Overall, look around here/online for better explanations to tell/show her.

Good job and good luck-

[John Ross]

On a side note....stop with the women bashing...not all of us females are out to steal every hard earned thing you own...As a matter of fact, I walked away with just what I entered into my past marriages with...Simply because my life was worth more then quibbling over possessions....Not all women are evil, manipulative twits....please don't lump us all into the same basket just because you managed to find a bad apple or two....

It's not women bashing, it's the reality of the family court system.

Consider this: Suppose you discovered one day that you had the actual power to control other people's decision-making thoughts, and therefore their actions.

Some of you might claim you'd never abuse this power. Maybe you wouldn't. But what would constitute abuse? If I had the power, I'd make Mel Gibson be wildly enthusiastic about my book, and make it into a movie. I'd like to see what the public's reaction would be.

Would this be abuse? The book's been a bestseller without any mind-control tricks on my part, so I might be doing Mel a favor.

I'd be tempted to have more people open accounts at my firm. That might be unfair to the people who lost the accounts, though.

Hmmm... what if we just fast forward to the end? How about I contact all of the Forbes 400 and have each of them donate $1,000 a month to me? Proportionally, it would be the same as me spending an extra 50 cents per month, which is to say, not even on the radar. And I'd make them feel good about it. $400,000 a month would be far more than I could spend on the things I like.

And, obviously, women I found attractive and interesting would make certain decisions that I would find... pleasurable.

My point is most of us will do what we are allowed to do.

And when we are allowed to do something for a while, we'll probably come to view it as our right.

Example: When our Governor Mel Carnahan was running for reelection, he and his son (and a staffer) flew their private plane into a thunderstorm and crashed, killing all. As chance would have it, they crashed on undeveloped rural property owned by my mother, but that's irrelevant.

The plane was over 30 years old and had a malfunctioning vacuum system (the thing that allows the artificial horizon to function, so you can see whether you're right side up or not in the clouds.)

The vacuum system had been replaced a long time ago, and needed to be replaced again. The son had a history of pushing the weather. Many of us saw him do it, out of our airport.

The Governor's widow (a U.S. senator) sued Cessna. I thought this showed the woman had no shame. Blaming Cessna would be like blaming GM when your 1973 Chevelle with bald tires crashes when you're driving 80 mph on ice.

Cessna coughed up $400,000. They were afraid to go to trial. They were afraid the jury would see "grieving widow and mother, big rich airplane company" and open up the company treasury.

She went after the money not because she actually thought Cessna had made a faulty product. They clearly hadn't. She did it because she knew she could.

I hope rockriver has a happy, lasting marriage. But here's the thing that ought to worry him:

IF she decides to dump him and keep the kids and much of his income, she will be allowed to, just like Jean Carnahan was allowed to shake down Cessna for $400,000. And the reason she might be likely to do that is she's already exhibited bad behavior even BEFORE the wedding...

JR

[Quinch]

I'd call it off, were I you. This one is NOT a keeper.

JR

Yep.

[twoblink]

I got out'ted by a friend once..

We were at the gun show in Las Vegas.. Walking around, most of his friends didn't know I was not from LV, but from LA..

So we were walking around, and everybody is talking about their piece.. and they ask me, "So whatcha packin' right now??" I told them I wasn't..

"WHAT?!?! YOU AREN'T PACKING??" Well, guess the whole show now knew as well..



My ex played out the situation as well. I told her, later on, I'd carry when I moved out of LA.. She was "uncomfortable" with it be willing to accept it. That is, until she got peer pressure from her anti friends...

So if you are going to keep her, take her shooting.. That's generally the eye-opener. "It's your hobby, not mine!!" if she says that, then she's not into taking responsibility for YOUR safety. I tell my wife, "You need to learn to shoot so if I'm hurt, you can "reply" to the perps with a few bullets downrange.." She thought it a reasonable request.. her counter-request was "I want a gun that's pretty and __I__ pick it.." Yeah, I'm ok with that..

[stevelyn]

It would be interesting to see how many of these guys that so easily say to ditch her are actually single.

I am. I learned a difficult lesson the hard way. Never again. I'm only trying to pass on my experiences so someone else can avoid the mistakes I made.

[mmike87]

***, Over?

I'd get this hammer out before you tie the knot. If she's uncomfortable with guns now, wait until your married and she's closer to them than ever.

[bobhaverford]

It's not women bashing, it's the reality of the family court system. IF she decides to dump him and keep the kids and much of his income, she will be allowed to, just like Jean Carnahan was allowed to shake down Cessna for $400,000. And the reason she might be likely to do that is she's already exhibited bad behavior even BEFORE the wedding...JR

Bottom line: Human being behave like, well, like HUMAN BEINGS!! With all of their shortcomigs and weaknesses. It amazes me how many fail to recognize this fact. I cannot tell you how often I've heard, "We're all adults, we don't need to be treated like children." or some variation thereof.

But we ARE children. Our society and various institutions have to be organized to recognize this fact. Every business I've started or run has been established with this organizing principle. I don't patronize or insult others but I do recognize that with the proper structure people and businesses flourish.

If you build a welfare state that rewards sloth and illegitimacy don't be surprised when you discover sloth and illegitimate births out of control. Of course liberals will always tell you that people are better than that. They aren't children. BS!! People will respond to rewards.

If TV, movies and all the media celebrate promiscuity don't be surprised when our children, and yes our adults, act accrodingly.

And when you build a divorce court system that refuses to assign fault and is empowers women and gives no recourse to men don't be surprised when women abuse it. Sure there are women who won't but they will be the exception.

[Beethoven]

her counter-request was "I want a gun that's pretty and __I__ pick it.." Yeah, I'm ok with that..


So what did she pick? That titanium-rainbow Sig? :D