FBI nieghbor - Wyatt Earp or Just Careful?

[Colt]

I have a new neighbor that is FBI. We haven't met, yet, but my wife has bumped into him and his wife.

The guy carries a sidearm, unconcealed, 24X7. That fact doesn't bother me in and of itself.

But I can't help but wonder what his motivation is for open carry. Is it possible that he has "put away" unsavory individuals that might try to take revenge on him, and he's using open carry to discourage these people? Or is it more likely that he wants to be seen as "a man among men," and is countering some sort of self-esteem problem?

As I mention, I haven't met him, yet, but plan to do so soon. I hope he turns out to be a gun enthusiast, and not someone that "just carries because he has to." I'm curious what others here know about federal LEO's off-duty habits.

[Third_Rail]

He does it because he has a right to?

[Colt]

He does it because he has a right to?

I'm not questioning his rights. My question is why he'd give up the tactical advantage of carrying concealed. It's seems foolish.

[Doc2005]

The couple agents who I have known were SOOO hesitant to reveal so, that I basically had to "pester" to be able even to see a badge. They were both so extremely low-key that I was truly, deeply impressed. They were humble, modest...they were congitively as-sharp-as tacks too! Neither ever open carried. Perhaps a reflection of the changing times.

Doc2005

[TexasRifleman]

He does it because he has a right to?

He doesn't have a "right" to, he has a "privilege". If it was a right we would all be doing it.

Cops have no more rights than the rest of us.

[mikeb3185]

my father is a local cop, he open carries often(when he carries at all:banghead: ) when i asked him why he simply said "it is most comfortable for me and i am allowed to".he hates iwb and ankle holsters are against dept regs. (too many lost pistols from cheap holsters) we do not have open carry in new york. you can actually loose your ccw if someone sees your pistol, (ie coat opens, shirt comes up) they can report you, good bye permit:fire: :fire:

[rick_reno]

I'd wait until you meet him before forming an opinion.

[BenW]

I agree with Rick. There could be any number of reasons, from the benign to the arrogant. When you get to know him, you'll know where in that range he is.

[Colt]

You guys are right. I guess I won't know until I get to know him.

Place your bets. I'll post back with his reason, if our conversation gets that far.

[bakert]

Here in Louisville in the heat of Summer I see detectives carrying openly at times. Dressed nicely with a tie and going about their business. I don't have a problem with it but I'm sure some people get nervous and flustered around one of these officers. Civilians with carry permits must have the gun concealed.

[c_yeager]

Maybe he is an enthusiest and he is trying to make the sheeple comfortable with open carry to make life easier for his non-LEO neighbors...

There is simply nothing resembling enough information to form any opinion on him whatsoever.

[TexasRifleman]

There are many LEO's that believe the presence of a badge and firearm in public lead to a reduction in crime merely because of the presence, keeping the thought in the criminal mind that they are "everywhere".

I don't have a problem with that. When everyone carried openly there were not nearly as many incidents as there are today. He may well believe he is helping, and he may be right.

Regardless of what you see in the movies, people were not drawing down on each other on a daily basis back then.

[Oldtimer]

OOPS! First of all, you haven't even MET the guy, but you claim that he carries his firearm exposed "24/7"! While you MAY have seen him a few times, when he wasn't wearing a suit or sport coat, I doubt VERY seriously if he carries an exposed firearm CONSTANTLY! Now, if you can honestly say that you've followed him from his home, and have observed him entering local stores with an exposed firearm, that might be a BIT different!

The majority of local/state/federal law enforcement agencies require CONCEALED carry for either off-duty or "plainclothes" assignments. If your new FBI neighbor is carrying exposed "24/7", then he is in direct violation of FBI regulations.

My guess is that you PROBABLY have seen him without his suit/sport coat when he was entering/exiting his vehicle on his PRIVATE property driveway. Perhaps he DOES, for one reason or another, want to "advertise" that he is armed....but it COULD be that he inadvertently exposes it because he has figured out that the majority of his new neighbors already KNOW that he's an FBI agent.

When I bought the house where I live, back in 1973, I had been a police officer for 2 years. While still in the moving-in process, I hadn't met ANY of my new neighbors so, as far as I knew, none of them knew that I was a police officer. Well, while UNARMED and unloading a rented U-Haul truck on the driveway, a pre-teen girl rode by on a bicycle. She saw me pushing a heavy cart up the driveway, and as she pedalled by, she yelled out, "Hi, Mister Policeman!" That caught me off guard, but I gave her a friendly "Hi!" in return.

After we had completely moved into the house, my wife and I introduced ourselves to many of the nearby neighbors. NONE of them knew that I was a police officer, but ALL seemed pleased to have us as new neighbors. After about one year, I learned that I wasn't the only law enforcement officer in the neighborhood, but that didn't surprise me.

About 3 years ago, when a young married couple bought the house next-door to ours, my first contact with the husband was just a few days after they had moved into the neighborhood. He was about to get into his car, and the first thing that I noticed was his EXPOSED handgun! I paused for a brief moment, wondering how to approach the situation, since I was NOT armed. I didn't know a THING about the man, but he was wearing a pair of suit pants, a white dress shirt and a tie. He had his suit coat draped over his arm as he stepped toward his car, and I instantaneously "registered" it in my mind that, even though he was armed, he didn't pose any threat to me. Well, he WASN'T a LEO, per se, but had a CCW permit. I stepped over to him, introduced myself, and learned that he was a prosecuting attorney for one of the local cities.
His CCW permit had been approved due to his prosecution activities involving gang members! We have since become very good friends, even though he is no longer a prosecuting attorney. His current "specialty" is within corporate law....and he no longer qualifies for a CCW permit. He says that he misses being armed!

Having spent 31 years in local law enforcement, I have dealt with FBI agents countless times. They're "different", that's for sure, but I've met several FBI agents that were decent folks. They learned a BIG lesson about thinking that they were "superior", just because they were FBI agents, when the Miami, FLA, shoot-out took place. That incident "humbled" them, and caused them to re-think their tactical deployment training.

I still think of the FBI as "College boys with guns", but they've come a LONG way since the days of J. Edgar Hoover (I still can't figure out why Hoover gave the ORDER that agents couldn't make left turns while driving FBI vehicles!).

Hopefully, your new FBI neighbor will turn out to be a "decent" person. On the other hand, it sounds like you have done some "generalizing" about him and his "24/7" style of exposed carry! Heck, you might find out that he only carries an exposed weapon "22/7"! (OUCH! I just bit my tongue!)

[Colt]

I didn't realize I had to provide proof and background on every assertion I make in my posts.

I can't say he open carries 24/7 wherever he goes. But I do know he always open carries when in public view within the neighborhood. Having met several other longterm members of the neighborhood, each has said this man always carries an exposed sidearm, whether walking with his wife, or raking leaves in the yard. On the 3 occassions I've seen him outside, he has been carrying on each of the 3.

In my original post, I'm very clear that I don't have a problem with him carrying open. I also mentioned that I hope he turns out to be a gun enthusiast, someone with which to hit the range, talk shop, etc..

My question was why he'd elect to open carry.

[The Drew]

In Pennsylvania, you don't even need a permit to carry open... so it IS a right...

I don't know what his motivations are... but to each his own...

[Hobie]

Here in VA you can open carry in a bar but can't carry concealed even with the CHP. Further, LOTS of detectives/parole officers/etc carry open with business suits and with badge exposed/clipped to belt. I'm sorry, but I just don't care if you open carry only if you attempt to intimidate or actually point the gun at me. That would not be cool. We've had several folks open carry into the shop where I work 2 days a week and it simply is NOT an issue.

That said, why is it an issue to you?

[Colt]

That said, why is it an issue to you?

It's not "an issue" to me. As I've mentioned twice now, I don't care what he does.

My question is simply why someone would open carry when they could carry concealed, from an off-duty LEO perspective.

[sumpnz]

My question is simply why someone would open carry when they could carry concealed, from an off-duty LEO perspective.I'm not a LEO, but here's my take: comfort, department policy, personal peragotive. Any or all of those are possible.

Plus, the whole notion of a tactical advantage to concealed is dubious. Sure, open carry gives up the element of surprise, but it also may keep the perp from acosting you in the first place. Drawing from an open carry position is usually faster too (no need to sweep cover garments).

Bottom line is, it's (presumably) his choice and I'd use it as a means to start a conversation with him, rather than question his motives on an internet forum.

[grampster]

How old is he?

[Werewolf]

My question was why he'd elect to open carry.Well...
Why don't you just ask him? :evil:

[cracked butt]

But I can't help but wonder what his motivation is for open carry. Is it possible that he has "put away" unsavory individuals that might try to take revenge on him, and he's using open carry to discourage these people? Or is it more likely that he wants to be seen as "a man among men," and is countering some sort of self-esteem problem?

Maybe he enjoys having people like you wondering? :D

[rudolf]

If you simply start carrying openly in your neighborhood yourself, it might become a fashion statement. If enough of your neighbors do it, you might just scare the crooks away.

[Billy]

Well...
Why don't you just ask him? :evil:

Best idea yet!

[Guns_and_Labs]

Maybe he's testing holsters?

[Colt]

Ok, it's settled then. Around noon tmw I'll saunter up to his front door wearing a black cowboy hat and a Colt SAA.

When he comes to the door, I'll announce: "Law don't go 'round here.":scrutiny:

[toolmaker]

Interestingly, a former neighbor and acquaintance, who's been to my house for cookouts, etc is an ATF agent. As good a neighbor as you could ever hope to have. He knows my hobby, has a personal interest in the shooting sports (grew up around guns, etc) and has even given me personal .44 mag ammo he no longer had use for (likes my 10 inch Super Blackhawk). He and his family are always welcome in my home. As a friend.

[Otherguy Overby]

I still think of the FBI as "College boys with guns", but they've come a LONG way since the days of J. Edgar Hoover (I still can't figure out why Hoover gave the ORDER that agents couldn't make left turns while driving FBI vehicles!).



Old J. Edgar was hit while his limo was turning left one time. He then decreed that all turns had to go around the block to the right when he was in his limo.

See the book "No Left Turns" by someone who's name I can't remember which was a tell all book by a retired agent.

[bogie]

But I can't help but wonder what his motivation is for open carry.

Because he can. Works for me.

[Skipper]

My neighbors would think something was very wrong if they saw me w/o a sidearm. One day I when I was at my grandkids house (only one mile away),I wasn't carrying for some reason and the kids all noticed and thought it was strange. I don't have to go to a closet or a drawer at home if I need a gun,I just put my hand on my side.
Out and about,shopping and etc,I always carry concealed. I don't want to draw attention and become a target for a BG. One way or the other, I'm ALWAYS armed.

SKIP

[Island Beretta]

important to understand that a gun on or off your hip doesnt necessarily make you a target either way... really it is more about YOU and the presence you portray...an open carry gun may or may not raise the perception of 'danger' which is what the BGs assess you off....

[Skipper]

I.B.,

If I walk into a robbery in progress,or a situation where a robbery is ABOUT to be in progress,and I'm openly armed,guess who is target numero uno.
I don't want to be seen as a threat in a situation like that,but rather a definite "non-threat". Then, if I DO need to act, I'll have at least SOME element of surprise on my side.(probably badly needed surprise!!)
Just my philosophy, but I'm always open to learning.

Regards,

SKIP

[Byron Quick]

I'm not questioning his rights. My question is why he'd give up the tactical advantage of carrying concealed. It's seems foolish.


Colt,

I think you're making an assumption here as to the tactical advantage of concealed carry. The assailant may, in his turn, make the same assumption I do,i.e, everyone is armed. Oops, there went your tactical advantage.

Before Georgia had concealed carry, open carry without permission was legal here. I open carried for years. IWB at four o'clock. Maybe ten percent of people made me. From comments, about 90% of the folks who were aware enough to see the gun in open sight assumed I was a LEO, regardless of the long hair, beard, and sandals. I've even had people ask if I was undercover.:rolleyes: I carried a revolver in blue jeans that had worn the hip pocket white in the perfect shape of a revolver. No one ever commented on that.

In conclusion, for a number of reasons, I don't believe that concealed carry is necessarily a tactical advantage nor do I believe that open carry is necessarily surrendering that tactical advantage.

You could probably epoxy a holster to your forehead, carry a gun into public in it, and be absolutely astounded by just how many people walked by oblivious to you. Most people are so far into condition white that it is utterly amazing.

I'm often amused by people who call vests "shoot me first vests." If I was a bad guy, I'd be operating under the "shoot everyone" rule.

[MikeIsaj]

He doesn't have a "right" to, he has a "privilege". If it was a right we would all be doing it. In Pa. he does have a right, as we all do.

[justashooter]

[QUOTE=The Drew]In Pennsylvania, you don't even need a permit to carry open... QUOTE]

http://www.atf.gov/firearms/statelaws/25thedition/index.htm

read the text in 6106, which makes concealed carry of a "firearm" (handgun, or sbs/sbr) without a liscense a 3rd degree felony, or a misdemeanor if there is no reason not to issue liscense if applied for.

6109a specifies that the liscense is good only for carrying concealed. 6109e reiterates the concealed carry provision.

of course, hunters engaged in sport or traveling to sport are excepted in carry of a handgun under the sportsmen's permit, 6106c, if they apply for it.

someone you lend you car to is also immune from prosecution if you gun is found in the car while they are operating, and if they are otherwise eligible to apply for permit.

6106 subsection 11, interestingly, enables permit holders of all states to carry while in their vehicle (as in transit).


what i do not see is language controlling open carry, except with regard to philadelphia under 6108.

i always assumed penna was concealed only, but under the strict interpretation of the statute, it appears that open carry is only prohibited in philadelphia. of course, if a cop wanted to make your day uncomfortable, there are other laws to apply, i'm sure.

[Doc2005]

I carry 24/7. If I am awake (except in the classroom) I have at least 1 pistol strapped to me, either one of my Colt 1911s, a Glock 17 or a combination. Even in the shower, the Glock is on the hanging basket.

My caution probably stems back to our occupied house being broken into went I was about 8 or 9 ... yes, we were home. Wierd situation. We also had several other attempted B & Es, and one assualt thwarted when the BGs noted the rifle beside me, and other situations. My brother-in-law was a cop, later he advanced into undercover narcotics detective and finally was promoted to being a detective. That could have fostered a bit of the increased "targeting" our home/family.

But, I really do prefer concealed carry. Let the BG learn the hard way. I do believe though, that there is a SLIGHT tactical advantage...can it be quantified...doubtful, but even if it is mere a sense of self-assuredness, what is the price of peace-of-mind? I know where I get mine.

Besides, I think it's great to watch the "security" folks when at the gunshow I have to check my magazines...my retort to their request that I deposit my mags into this ziplock bag is, "No, fellas...one ziplock bag isn't gonna make it!" When they see me peel off 10, 19-round Glock mags, and 6 or more 10-round .45 mags they invariably ask me "Where in the he## do you live...or work?!"

When I say "Detroit", that seems to justify it. It's well-known fact, that the Detoit Police can delay WELL OVER an hour in arriving. When I learned of that statistic, I learned how to cram spare magazines into every pocket and under every reachable part of my clothing. I detailed in one thread what I typiocally carry. By the way, anyone else's 19-round Glock mags. actually hold 20 rounds? Mine do.

Thanks for this thread...it was a GREAT read! I appreciated the views!

Doc2005

[XLMiguel]

Howdy - I'd wait to form an opinion until you meet the guy, but, I don't know what part of PA you're in or what your neighborhood is like. I'm in suburban VA, inside the beltway, have had a few neighbors with the Secret Service, FBI, other assorted federal agencies, [specops] military and Ffx Co police. All made it a point to be discrete, though I'm sure most were armed 95% of the time, even just pushing a lawnmower (and it's a nice enough neighborhood-). It could just be the neighborhood, but all made an effort to stay off the radar. FWIW

[Oldtimer]

Colt, I didn't mean to get your dander up, but you DID say that he openly carries "24/7"....and that's a VERY broad brush stroke!

The wording of your original post seemed as if you had a problem with his exposed carrying, but now you're saying that it ISN'T a problem with you!
After all, you KNEW that he was an FBI agent before actually meeting him in person, and I'm sure that you realize that federal law enforcement agents ARE required to carry firearms!

You "hope" that your new FBI neighbor is pro-gun?
What if he ISN'T? About 99.9% of all FBI agents are college grads, and at one time, the FBI only accepted lawyers and Certified Public Accountants into their agency. YEP! Now, however, a 4-year college degree is all that is required. How many college grads are actually PRO-gun, after having gone through the mostly liberal colleges and universities?

Don't peek through the window, hoping to "catch" him carrying openly again! Soothe your curiousity by politely introducing yourself. After that, work it up to asking him why he openly carries in the neighborhood. I, for one, hope that you post an up-date after finding out his reason(s)! Maybe, just maybe, you can become friends with that new neighbor...even if he DOES prove to be anti-gun!
At least he has gone through the strenuous FBI Academy training, and that might benefit YOU after getting to know him better!

[Felonious Monk]

My father was an FBI agent for 30 years.
This was him:
SOOO hesitant to reveal so, that I basically had to "pester" to be able even to see a badge. They were both so extremely low-key that I was truly, deeply impressed. They were humble, modest...they were congitively as-sharp-as tacks too! Neither ever open carried. Perhaps a reflection of the changing times.

Doc2005
...unfortunately, Dad is now mildly anti-.
Go figure. :uhoh:

[NewShooter]

Hey Colt, I'm your new neighbor. Come over for coffee sometime.
Just kidding.
But seriously, If he's a gun owner he could very well be on this board reading this and laughing.:D

[Rezin]

The couple agents who I have known were SOOO hesitant to reveal so, that I basically had to "pester" to be able even to see a badge. They were both so extremely low-key that I was truly, deeply impressed. They were humble, modest...they were congitively as-sharp-as tacks too! Neither ever open carried. Perhaps a reflection of the changing times.


When I was stationed in New Orleans, my offices were in the same building as the local FBI feild office. It was a full year before I realized whch ones were the agents, they were all so low key.

[fisherman66]

I wish more LEO's would open carry at all times.

[fisherman66]

Ok, it's settled then. Around noon tmw I'll saunter up to his front door wearing a black cowboy hat and a Colt SAA.

When he comes to the door, I'll announce: "Law don't go 'round here."


Please wear some pants too.

[Joejojoba111]

That's his 'Python', for back-up.

[fisherman66]

Joe,

It's taking all the restain in the world not to use words like "snubby, vent rib, barrel crown, rubber grip, trigger happy, half cocked, ect."

I will just bite my tongue and let them all go without uttering a word.

[Colt]

I had hoped to make my neighbor's aquaintance this weekend, but he seems to be out of town. Didn't see him all weekend.

I plan to introduce myself at the next opportunity, though. For those interested, I'll post the outcome. I'm sure we'll get along just fine.

[Bob F.]

Actually, I clicked back onto this thread tonight to see if there was an update after you'd met him. Real interested to see what you think then.

Ustabe: men wore suit to church and funerals, detectives (plainclothes LEOs) wore suits or sportcoats, uniform LEOs wore uniforms, not BDU pants, t-shirts and ball caps. Yeah, yeah: I know, I'm a freakin' dinosaur but I like it.

I'm not LEO but do have CHL. Carry as much as possible. Sometimes on the 3 acre yard (semi-rural) I open carry but try not to flash it( the gun, the gun!)
Prefer concealed.
I'm pretty much with Mike and Felonious, et als. Get to know him, first.

Stay safe.
Bob

[rudolf]

Last year I had some trouble with two turkish youths who wanted to hassle me, I resolved it with a baton. One had pulled starter gun and was quite surprised when he was beaten. Well, I figured next time they'll be four or six, so I openly carried a short sword (21") for a few months, even when going for a drink. The folks at the bar knew me and just joked about it. The display worked, no more hassles. Sometimes it is just better to show what will happen.

BTW, no gun carry over here, but all blades legal. No need to discuss legality or 'better have a gun'.

If half of the customers of a store carry open, who will want to rob it?

[Bobarino]

i open carry if i'm working in the backyard simply because the OWB holster is much more comfortable that the IWB one, especially when shovelling or raking etc. the neighbors to the side and behind the house can see me but neither has ever mentioned anything. i don't open carry in the front yard where there is a lot of traffic driving by. i do the IWB concealed thing in that case. open carrying in the yard is just an issue of comfort for me.

Bobby

[outofbattery]

I was in line at the grocery and one of our town detectives was at the checkout in usual khakis,golf shirt and G-27 OWB attire.After he bagged his groceries and left the woman in front of me said *what's it come to that people have to bring guns to the supermarket?* and I told her that he's a local LEO that chooses not to wear a uniform but of course didn't feel the need to tell her I had a P239 on my hip as well:D

[MadMercS55]

One of my neighbor's is a detective for the local PD. He wears a suit\tie to work every day. I work mostly nights and we pass often in the mornings, come summertime, he's often seen carrying his coat, thus his sidearm being open carried. I live in PA as well, and we are allowed to do so. I've done it as well on several occasions and while it's easier in hot weather, I'm not per se 100% comfortable with it (perceived security issues). On a few hot summer nights when I've had to run to the store for milk etc, I've open carried without so much as a word from other customers, most didn't even notice as far as I could tell. I personally prefer concealed, but when open carry is legal, and you prefer it, then why not? Just be safe either way.

[Zach S]

i open carry if i'm working in the backyard simply because the OWB holster is much more comfortable that the IWB one, especially when shovelling or raking etc. the neighbors to the side and behind the house can see me but neither has ever mentioned anything. i don't open carry in the front yard where there is a lot of traffic driving by. i do the IWB concealed thing in that case. open carrying in the yard is just an issue of comfort for me.

Bobby
I also open carry when working outside, my G17 is my official "yard gun." I dont have a lot of traffic on my road (a somewhat private dead end). To the best of my knowledge, its never been a big deal. I get along with the neighbors I know, and when folks come to read the water or electric meter, they dont seem to care or even notice. They normally seem more concerned about my german shepherd/who knows what mutt.

Anywhere else that's legal, I conceal a 1911.

[GunGoBoom]

Reasons I can think of:

1. It's not easy to conceal, esp. in summer, what with some sort of covering garment required to conceal. It's a pain in the butt; open carry is not. Furthermore, certain CC methods require different & expensive holsters, and the only one he may be able to afford at this time is the bureau-issued one.

2. You lose a smidge of draw time, and thus a smidge of tactical advantage, should you need your gun, if you are concealed rather than open. With some CC methods, you lose several fractions of a second of draw time.

3. He views it as a civic duty to carry openly for deterrent purposes, to help the public in general that he is around, and that he is willing to sacrifice the tactical advantage of covert-ness in order to help the public with this deterrent effect that known law enforcement present has on marginal bad guys.

4. Bravada. He feels like a studmuffin letting the world know, and likes the fact that it invites questions, so he can talk about and possibly brag about being in. Perhaps he's new and justifiably proud of getting accepted and passing training.

Perhaps others.....

1-4 must be weighed against the mentioned loss of advantage that open carry saddles the user with, since the BG then know who is and isn't armed (to that extent at least), and thus who to take out first. This individual apparently weighs one or more of items 1-4 above more heavily than this countervailing reason.

My question is, does he use a retention holster!?

[Michael Courtney]

There are lots of possible motives to open carry. The crime rate in our neighborhood did a nosedive when I began carrying openly several years ago. Concealed carry would not have had the same effect.

If his wife is attractive or has been the victim of unwanted sexual advances, she may well have asked him to carry openly and play up the fact that he is an FBI agent to scare off unwanted advances and suggest the possibility that she is carrying also.

Michael Courtney

[Skyviking]

I seriously doubt that an FBI agent would walk around his house/yard, let alone the neighborhood, carrying openly. Find out his name, then call the Bureau and ask for him. I think you'll find out there isn't any such person, but I've been wrong before.

[callgood]

Old J. Edgar was hit while his limo was turning left one time. He then decreed that all turns had to go around the block to the right when he was in his limo.

See the book "No Left Turns" by someone who's name I can't remember which was a tell all book by a retired agent.

Yep. I had that book years ago. I loaned it out and didn't get it back. I recently read it was out of print and bringing big bucks on the internet. It figures, probably the 2nd book I ever loaned!

The book was hilarious. Hoover went down to Quantico once while the new recruits were qualifying/practicing firearms. As he left he turned to the guy in charge and said, "Get rid of the pinhead." The guy was too intimidated to ask WTF, so he and his staff went through the lockers and checked hat sizes (late 50s-early 60's). They washed out the guy with the smallest hat size. Some unfortunate guy probably wondered for a long time why he got the ax. Sort of funny. Sort of not.

[Michael Courtney]

I seriously doubt that an FBI agent would walk around his house/yard, let alone the neighborhood, carrying openly. Find out his name, then call the Bureau and ask for him. I think you'll find out there isn't any such person, but I've been wrong before.

The FBI is a very large government bureaucracy. Failing to confirm that a person works at any similarly sized government bureaucracy with a couple of phone calls is far from conclusive evidence that the person doesn't really work for the bureau.

Michael Courtney

[Colt]

Finally met my neighbor, Mike.

Seems like a very nice guy. We talked about or jobs, neighborhood, community, and eventually guns.

He shared with me his motivation for open carry, which is two-fold. First, the comfort aspect, as some speculated on this thread. Everyone in the neighborhood (which is a big "loop") knows he's FBI, so open carrying for comfort's sake isn't going to spook anyone into calling the cops. Second, he's not usually undercover. The type people he generally puts away are the type that could find out who he is and where he lives without too much effort. Given that he wouldn't be particularly hard to locate, the people aiming to do him or his family harm would expect him to know this, and to be carrying for that very reason. So there's no point in concealed carry, as it would only slow him down if the SHTF. He also said he answers the door with pistol in hand, so don't be alarmed when I stop by.

Made sense to me, and satisfied my curiousity. I'm glad I made his acquaintance, and I'm sure we'll get along just fine.

[countertop]

I seriously doubt that an FBI agent would walk around his house/yard, let alone the neighborhood, carrying openly. Find out his name, then call the Bureau and ask for him. I think you'll find out there isn't any such person, but I've been wrong before

Uh, my neighbor does here in Fairfax, Virginia.

[britinaz]

:) If you simply start carrying openly in your neighborhood yourself, it might become a fashion statement. If enough of your neighbors do it, you might just scare the crooks away.

:) :) Just Maybe!

[Hawkmoon]

I didn't realize I had to provide proof and background on every assertion I make in my posts.

I can't say he open carries 24/7 wherever he goes.
But you DID say that:
The guy carries a sidearm, unconcealed, 24X7.
In my original post, I'm very clear that I don't have a problem with him carrying open. I also mentioned that I hope he turns out to be a gun enthusiast, someone with which to hit the range, talk shop, etc..

My question was why he'd elect to open carry.
Don't count on him being pro-gun. Some FBI guys are, some are neutral, and some are very anti. Bottom line is, he carries because he's a federal LEO and considered to be on-call 24/7, even though "off duty." Why carry open? Maybe because raking leaves in a suit is both impractical and uncomfortable.

[Bob F.]

Back in the day (i.e.: 22+ yrs ago) I had occassion to ask Agent what brand of holster he had the revo in? " I don't know, it's what the agency issued". It was a nice pancake but he had no interest. His gun was just a tool. Maybe that's why the Feds lose so many firearms.

Stay safe.
Bob

[RyanM]

Just to clarify PA gun laws, it is legal to carry unconcealed without a license, but only if you stay on foot. With a license, you can carry almost anydangplace you want, including churches, public schools, and bars. Only places where firearms are actually illegal are courthouses (in a couple counties, only the judge's chambers, DA's office, and courtroom can be marked no firearms), post offices, jails, state parks, and federal property. And Philly, unless you have a license, as noted before.

(a) Offense defined.--Any person who carries a firearm in any vehicle or any person who carries a firearm concealed on or about his person, except in his place of abode or fixed place of business, without a valid and lawfully issued license under this chapter commits a felony of the third degree.

[Colt]

Hawk

You said

Don't count on him being pro-gun. Some FBI guys are, some are neutral, and some are very anti. Bottom line is, he carries because he's a federal LEO and considered to be on-call 24/7, even though "off duty." Why carry open? Maybe because raking leaves in a suit is both impractical and uncomfortable.

It's a good idea to read an entire thread before posting comments on the early posts withing the thread. It seems you are commenting on things that have long-since been addressed by other members and myself.

But thanks for the input.

[Blue Jays]

Hi Rudolf-"...If you simply start carrying openly in your neighborhood yourself, it might become a fashion statement. If enough of your neighbors do it, you might just scare the crooks away..." You can have anything you want at Alice's Restaurant.

~ Blue Jays ~

[CAPTAIN MIKE]

1. Get to know the guy as an individual. Probably a decent sort, given his occupation. Assume you have more in common than an interest in firearms.
Invite him shooting sometime.

2. You & the wife should invite he and his wife to dinner, then to the range.

[bearmgc]

FBI guys that I've met have been very low key, polite, people. In regular clothes, they'd least likely be the guys I would guess were in the profession.
My understanding is they basically are on duty 24/7. I would guess they wear their firearms like another skin. I would have no problem with exposed carry. And maybe it does actually deter crime.

[Thin Black Line]

I still think of the FBI as "College boys with guns", but they've come a LONG way since the days of J. Edgar Hoover

Yes, they are. And, they all now have to qualify on the MP5.

[Sleuth]

I came to this thread late, but for 27 years I was a Federal Agent. I doubt my neighbors ever knew, but on occasion I would part the 'G-ride' (Government car) in the driveway, and carry my jacket over my arm into the house. I was never 'made' on the job, but I did very little undercover work (we had specialists who did that).

Please, be nice to your new neighbor. Don't ask him how he feels about it when the FBI screws up, we all do from time to time. Don't ask him to justify what other agents, or agencies, have done. Don't expect him to be anything more than a college educated government worker, with his own set of likes, dislikes, and preferences. Even FBI agents are just human! And, if you have a need for law enforcement assistance, unless it is a life or death matter, call the locals. He has no jurisdiction on local crimes.

Of course, some of us "Feds" are died in the wool gun enthusiasts!

[hiwayjose]

well, you can visit him at his office and greet him "I have a gun" :neener:

[Bane]

My only question is what was he caring and is it a department issued weapon?