[sm]

I know where one is looking for a home out CO way... :D

I get this PM earlier today [ wonder why me?] from someone in CO who knows where an older 870 in 28 ga is.

Steve, know anyone interested?

Yeah, but I cannot get one right now personally. :D

Being as I am about certain things, I suggested some folks and PM-ed this fellow back.

Now I heard one dumb excuse, one fellow is into 12 bore only right now - now I won't mention names, but from reading his posts, it seems the REAL reason is - his wife keeps taking his guns, and keeps him chained to the reloader to make her ammo.

I really think the guy that PM-ed me in the first place should get it. He would then have two 870s in 28 ga and three 28 ga guns total.

So I will be blamed as usual if someone gets this gun. Then again my role in life is do some things - like plant 28 ga shotgun seeds and watch 'em grow.

Why I even hear the weather is just fine in MD for these seeds to come to fruition. [hintdavehint].

And would do something like mention two folks I know - one in TX and one in Indiana needing this gun?

Darn right I would and did. :evil:

Oh...Oh...I forgot - I gotta email a fella on the East Coast...the one that called me back the other day...
His wife will be so proud of me. *grin*

[Dave McCracken]

{Hintdavehint}....

Hints are fun but a 28 will have to wait until college tuition is but a fading memory around Casa McC.

So will an autoloader, an O/U, and a light 16 or 20 gauge with nice wood and open chokes. Bird gun.

[Larry Ashcraft]

I just might have a few details on this gun. ;)

Folks, listen up. The gun is early 70's mfg, fixed (modified) choke, and best of all, new in box!

The price is right too, and no, its not mine, and I won't make a dime on it. I would really like somebody here to get it and enjoy it.

PM me or post here if interested, I would like to help somebody get this gun. Please somebody buy this gun before I end up with another one.:)

[sm]

Hey if someone wants to buy this thing for the

Buy this for Dave or Buy this for Steve 'cause" - I don't think Dave or Steve would argue. :D :D

Leave me alone here Dave, I'm working can't you see? Work with me - will ya? :p

Smoke needs one , to match his other 870.

kudu needs one, then again he will need two more since he has 3 girls, two are twins, and this 'adopted uncle' has held off so far in sending the gals pretty pictures with 28 ga ideas...so far...time is getting short bub.

Still ain't ruled out Larry getting this one...I happened to bring an idea to his mind over the phone tonight.
I stay in trouble with Sandy anyway.
Not my fault Sandy stole Larry's other 28 ga leaving him only a 870 ...I knew this would happen. :neener:

Yeah I know - I stay in trouble. One is supposed to do what they are good at...I'm good at this getting into trouble stuff. :p

[boxcab]

Lets see, I have three daughters, and a wife I'd like to get shooting. There's room in the safe... a dangerous thing I am told. I should keep all the positions filled.

Hmmmm....


Dan

[kudu]

Steve, I already have one 870 in 28ga, and 3 other 28ga guns that I can divide between my three girls and my wife if they like... :p

I might be in the market for a .410 in an 870 to round out my collection though. :neener:

[Larry Ashcraft]

You guys are going to force me to buy this gun, aren't you? I can't afford it either.

Pssst. I didn't tell anybody about the 28 ga 11-48 in the paper a couple weeks ago for $295. Steve is gonna kick my butt. :D

I might be in the market for a .410 in an 870 to round out my collection though.
I'll keep my eyes open. Sub-gauge shotguns don't sell well around here.

[sm]

Notes to self:

1. Kick Larry's butt.

2, Send kudu's kids pretty catalog of 32 and 24 ga shotguns.

Then sit back and wait for kudu's kids to ask daddy, does MEC make dies to convert "our" reloaders to 24 or 32 ga?

A bookmark for kudu: http://www.fiocchiusa.com/cat_specialty.php :D

I are persistent. :uhoh: :neener:

I know! I need to call Lee Lapin's better half. She would be so proud to speak to me... yeah Lee ain't got a 28 ga, but you can take it away from him...Sandy took one of Larry's 28 ga's away from him...its a wife tradition thingy....

Yeah well there is a reason folks keep close tabs on me and want me on their side...

[EVIL5LITER]

So I sent a PM. But if the old lady gets word of this, I'm buried.

[sm]

Reply to your PM sent.

Umm if'n she is gonna holler - Blame Me.
If'n she drags out the gun and a shovel - name me benefactor before she does the Three S's will you please? :uhoh: :D

Steve

[Larry Ashcraft]

I don't know why I'm being all secretive about this. After all, there's just us shotgun folks in here, right?

Here's the deal: The guy who has the shotgun is a coin dealer friend of mine. He took the gun to settle a $600 debt (he says). He wants $600 but he told me if I can sell it, he will give me $25. I will kick back the $25 to any THR member who wants it.

So the price would be $575 plus shipping and FFL fees, and my neighbor is an FFL so I can probably get a deal on that too.

I haven't personally seen the gun yet, but I will inspect it and take some pictures before I commit to anything.

Somebody please save me from buying this thing, I already have one.

[EVIL5LITER]

Stupid question here, but the guy wants more than one sells for new. Is it just a regular old 870, or is there something special about the earlier model 870's as compared to a new wingmaster in 28?

[sm]

They do not make this quality now-a-days.

Wood, Metallurgy, wood to metal fit, bluing and such were / still are that much better in the Older guns.

NO MIM parts for example used in the extractor as new offerings have today.

This is true for so many of today's firearms. Hence the reason many folks like myself prefer to buy OLDer firearms, even if the monies is similar to a new offering.

28 ga guns tend to bring more money anyway. This one is TTBOMK NIB. A call to Remington with S/N would confirm BOD.

FWIW in Tulsa, Larry and Checked every 28ga we could find, especially 870 28 ga guns.

There was one , and MY gut said the guy was wrong [ he was] about a Particular 28 ga, He said he fired one box of skeet, then put it up. He had the Papers , with Sales Reciept...he wanted $795. His best cash price was $725.
He sold that gun btw for $765, the fella was sure hoping I / we didn't buy it - he wanted it - bad.

I saw one that was indeed a NIB, fixed Mod, he wanted $850 and would not come down for nothing - He also had one extra bbl in IC he wanted $200, it is my understanding - he got what he asked for these.

These are 'that good'. They do not make this quality anymore. Supply and demand is part of it too.

I asked and had a Frank Talk with Larry while at Tulsa. I wanted him to know he could buy a 870 Express in 28 ga, save some money, and have a 28 ga pump.

Larry handled the Old Wingmaster, he had seen the Express...

" I gotta have the Wingmaster, I have kids, and grandkids, I gotta teach these kids, have this for them to learn on, pride of ownership, and somethng nice to pass down. They are not making guns like this anymore, I have to do this for me, Sandy, kids and grandkids".

Larry has no regrets. He did not hesitate one second when he forked over his money in Tulsa. It was not 5 minutes before the first person complimented Larry on HIS gun he was carrying around. He, we had many folks asking he if wanted to sell it, if anymore out in the show - and where [ I/we told them all the spots with these...]

It was interesting in Tulsa, I had not attended before, but had heard so much about Tulsa. My gun buddy had told me for years to attend. I had quit attending any shows locally.

Folks went to buy "real guns", they were paying monies for OLDer quality firearms, be it shotguns, handguns, or rifles - not buying the new ones with gun locks, MIM, poorer wood, bluing, metal to gun fit.

The real shocker - folks needing a BUG, desk drawer gun, or hidey hole gun were buying up all the OLD Taurus 85s , without gun locks and MIM.

870 Wingmasters, Model 97s, Model 12s, Model 42s , 1100s, Beretta 302/303, A5s, Rem 11, Ithaca 37s, Stevens 311...these old guns were being snatched up fast.

Me, I got real attached to a Model 97 takedown, and a Model 12 in 28 ga, with the leather cases. I forget how much the Model 97 was - The Model 12 in 28 ga was $4800, he would take $4500 cash...oh how I wanted these two.
It was soooo hard to put these down and walk away.

If had had the monies, I would of had these, The 3 bbl Citori set, the 4 Gov't models of 1911, the 4 BHPs, bunch of K frames, Model 70s...and ...err....we would have needed a big utility cart, some help and a moving van to bring back all the stuff I wanted. :D

"Excuse me sir - are you a dealer?"

Larry told them no - but I had handled every 28 ga in the joint, and a bunch of other stuff I am nuts about. :uhoh: :p

Larry is going to bring a motorized scooter next time to keep up with me...

FWIW I kept one of my Super X model 1s. This one is a 1974 model. I have over 200k rds thru this gun alone.

I had other SX1s, Custom ,Pigeon Grade, two bbl sets...etc. These are still taking prize monies, felling live pigeons, clays and game. A quality made gun, of quality materials, craftsmanship - will last a long time and gives tens of....hundreds of thousands of shooting pleasure and memories.

[Larry Ashcraft]

Agree with everything Steve says.

I'm the guy who likes the best. I will pay extra for my pickup to have the two-tone paint, the chrome wheels, all the cool options. Contractor's special will get the job done just as well, but my personal preference, I will pay for the nicer one.

Same with the Wingmaster. I could have almost bought two Expresses for what I paid, but I would rather pay the extra and have something I can be proud of.

Not saying I'm right, just personal preference. :)

Also, check this page: http://www.remington.com/firearms/shotguns/870wngsmlga.htm

MSRP on the new Wingmaster 28 ga is $729. :eek:

[Fred Fuller]

No argument at all the gun is worth it- every penny of it and a good deal at that. That 1970s vintage qualifies it as a classic 870 any way you look at it.

Too bad we can't afford it here. It woulda been jumped on if we could. But there are too many household projects hanging, the budget is a bit tight and we have the holidays coming up (including that OPS Snubby Summit trip to FL that is our mutual Christmas present to each other this year).

But Steve, you know the number here. You can call the Doktor Professor yourself if you want to hear it from her.

lpl/nc

[sm]

Larry,
Yikes! I knew you did good in Tulsa, but gee willikers! Yours is made with the old quality , old craftsmanship. :cool:

Lee,
Umm, no thanks on calling your calling your wife and pushing. Between the way she shoots handguns and your former co-workers - I ain't gotta prayer. I may be dumb - I ain't stoopid. :p

Okay Steve, why don't you buy it? What do have in 28 ga?

I can't afford it right now either.

<break out the hankerchiefs folks>

All my 28 ga guns are gone. Either Theft or Fire took them all. Included were four 870s in 28 ga. I had seven barrels total as well.

sniff...sniff...

One in particular was sentimental, made in 1955, the year I was born. An older fella, bit of a mentor, was gonna die. This gun had to of had 100k rds thru it, he competed with it. He hunted small game with it. It had been back to Remington once for a complete going thru and re-bluing.

He wanted me to have it for the simple reason I had been like the son he never had. He wanted someone that appreciated it - to have it. I paid him - he got mad, but only accepted a C note for it. He didn't really need the money, but I bought his reloader and other stuff as well. His wife understood and the truth was he used the money to buy a piece of jewlery he had always wanted her to have. Sentimental , last something before he died.

Well the doctors did not realize how hard-headed this fella was, he wouldn't die - not yet anyways.

I found a fella and had a Turkish Walnut Stock made for this gun, unique was the Corncob / rattail forearm I wanted. Slight palm swell, custom checkering, and the pistol grip was a 'semi-semi pistol grip' with a 24 k yellow gold cap - it was made ( duplicated - hand engraved) from a AA 28 case head as reference and that is what it resembled.

Pachmyer Decellator thin pad, specially contoured. Pachmyer Trulock sling swivel for buttstock and a custom one made for mag cap. I had a special leather braided sling done up as well. This was for toting to and fro.

I had a special plain bbl - it was fixed IC, the front bead was 24k gold. Had the deepest bluing and matched the receiver, with the grain in the wood - reminding one of Carp-Berl...had personality to say the least.

Now I found a fixed full bbl that was in a flood, the rust was from the mid bbl to muzzle, and the muzzle badly dinged...when it fell muzzle down onto concrete.

I had that plain bbl shortened to 21", for lighting purposes I went to a Platinum front bead - with a 18k yellow gold 'insert'. No woodcock down my way - still talk about a thick brush quail busting gun - this one was it. The old fella doing the bbl figured I had about 2 pts of constriction. The new bluing job was incredible!!

Granted I never pay attention to beads, just aesthics and ID-ed my guns and gave personality. Low profile with character you might say.

Found a guy that did leather work, so a saddle holster was the pattern, and tho not the same as a leather case for a Model 12 - I had a very unique, and sharp looking gun case. It would fit on a horse, a Harley, and did very well in vehicle trunks and pick-up truck beds, cabs, and such.

The old friend went nuts over all this work, he just grinned when he saw it. When we went out to shoot small game, or shoot clays - he shot it.

He liked to play the pump gun event, he was really good, and he used that Gun - formerly his- to win his last Pump gun event. His last event period.He went 100/100 shooting doubles - using that pump gun. All I did was put the fixed skeet barrel on it - the one it came with, the one he had used forever.

We shared that gun on that event, he took first, I took second, I dropped my first bird - then ran'em. I honestly missed it. He thought I may have done so on purpose, then realized ( heard the popping) my knee was really giving me fits. I had to ace bandage it to have stabilty to finish.

I would have not missed shooting this event for anything - I knew time was nigh for him. He had just suprised all the doctors, his wife, me and everyone.

I am convinced to this day he stayed well to give back " a little more" to shooters and folks like me. He had held out to shoot this gun - to wait for my project to be completed. He lived one week after that event, he never woke up, had a smile, figured he was dreaming about 28 gauge's , clays and quail.

The day that gun went up in flames with others, I cried, not so much for the gun itself, all the special work done - but for the man I got it from,and all the memories that gun could share if it could only talk.

It had soul.

Larry - guess that explains why I went nuts over the corncob/ rattails on forearm pumps in Tulsa - huh?

Sorry folks, then again not. I just have my reasons for my druthers is all. Plenty are associated to 28 ga guns alone. Character, Soul, and Memories.

Someday - I will have another, and some other stuff too...

Steve

[EVIL5LITER]

Unfortunately, I just dropped a large amount of coin on a 1946 model Winchester Model 70. Can't afford it right now.

[ceetee]

Sorry folks, then again not. I just have my reasons for my druthers is all. Plenty are associated to 28 ga guns alone. Character, Soul, and Memories.


Yet most people think that guns are just metal, wood, and plastic. Strange.

Thanks!

[sm]

Like I said - I have my druthers.
I also have My Feelings about Metal & Wood. I am quite passionate about it.

Dennis Bateman expresses best:
---

"Metal and Wood"


by Dennis Bateman

http://www.thefiringline.com/Misc/library/Metal_and_Wood.html



The following essay was originally published at www.TheFiringLine.com

It is a rare person who does not attach some sort of value or emotion to some physical object or to an event. A home becomes more than a building. A statue of the Virgin Mary, a crucifix, a flag or a song, or even a photograph can stir emotions greater than the value of the material item.

I have a piece of paper showing I served in the military until I was discharged honorably. But, oh, the memories that piece of paper conjures up. The friends, the fun times. The bad times. The times when we were bound closer to strangers than to our own families and, in frightening chaos, our lives hung by a thread.

Many of our friends died far from home. Ask us about the feeling of "American soil" upon returning to the land we loved. Ask those returning soldiers about America.

Remember the old, faintly humorous band of American Legionnaires, wearing out-dated military uniforms straining at the buttons. But, God how proudly they marched. Grinning, waving to friends and families, and always, always "The Flag!" Ask them if the flag is mere cloth, I dare you.

See the elderly lady sitting in a lawn chair watching the fourth of July parade. Three flags carefully folded some forty years ago into triangles now rest in her lap - one for each lost son. Ask her if those flags are mere cloth, I dare you.

Look at the old man quietly crying, leaning against the Iwo Jiima Memorial at Arlington Cemetery. As he turns to you, smiles with some embarrassment, and says in a choked whisper, "I was there." Ask him, "Is it just metal and clay?" Ask him. I dare you.

The Wall. My God, the Wall. See the young man lightly tracing the name of his father there inscribed. Ask him if its just rock. Ask him. I dare you.

My guns? They’re of little real value compared to my family and my home. They are toys, or tools, or both. But what those guns represent to me is greater than all of us, greater than myself, my family, indeed greater than our entire generation. What could be of such value?

The freedom of man to live within civil, self-imposed limitations rather than under restrictions placed upon him by a ruler or a ruling class.

Imagine the daring, the bravery of a few men to declare they intended to create a new country, independent of the burden of their established Rulers!

Those men we call our forefathers were brilliant men. They could have maneuvered themselves into positions of influence within the structure of the times, but they did not. They struggled to free themselves from tyranny. They wrote the Declaration of Independence. And they backed up their words and ideals with metal and wood.

They knew the dangers of such dreams and actions. They knew it was a frightening and dangerous venture into the unknown when they dared reach beyond their grasp for a vision - for an ideal. But they dared to dedicate themselves to achieve Liberty and Freedom for their children, and their children’s children, through the generations.

Imagine the dreams and yearnings of centuries finally being reduced to the written word. The Rights of "We the People!" instead of the "Powers of the Monarchy."

Our forefathers dared to create a new government - a new form of government. And they knew that any organization has, as its first and foremost goal, its continued existence. Second only to that it strives to increase its power. It plots, it devises, it maneuvers to achieve control over its environment - over its subjects.

Our Forefathers decided to make America different from any country, anywhere, at any time in the entire history of the entire world. This country, this new nation of immigrants, would be based upon the concept that people could rule themselves better than any single person or small group of persons could rule them.

Other countries have had outstanding documents with guarantees for its citizens - but the citizens have become enslaved. How, these great men pondered, can we ensure this new government will remain subject to the will of the People?

They wanted limits upon this new government. Therefore, our forefathers wrote limitations into the Constitution and the Bill of Rights. And one of those Rights was that metal and wood, as the final power of the people, would secure this country for the future generations.

Metal and wood were the means by which we won our freedom.

Metal and wood were the means by which we kept our freedom.

Metal and wood may be the means by which we regain our freedom.

Metal and wood are the final power of the people. Take away the metal and wood and the people become powerless - they can only beg, they supplicate for favors.

We are unique in our ability to rule ourselves but we are letting it slip away. Today we compromise. We try to appease man’s insatiable appetite for power by throwing him bits of our freedoms. But the insatiable appetite for power can not be appeased. The freedoms we feed him only make us weaker and him stronger. We must conquer him and again ensure the "Blessings of Liberty" won for us by our forefathers.

We must be ready to use metal and wood again, for if we are ready, truly ready, we may be able to conquer the monster with words - for in its heart it is a coward. But if we continue to feed the monster our freedoms, we will become too weak to win, to weak even to fight, and we will become a conquered people. We will have sold ourselves and our future generations into servitude.

If words fail us, we will use metal and wood, we will regain what we have lost, we will achieve what we seek, we will guarantee the America of our forefathers for the future generations.

So you see, our guns are more than metal and wood. They are our heritage of freedom. They are the universally understood symbol that the government, no matter how big and strong it may be, answers to us! They are the tools we will use to prevent tyranny in the land of our forefathers and our children. So, ask me what my guns mean to me. Ask my children what our guns mean to them. Ask us. I dare you.