[280PLUS]

I know this is not gun related but I thought I'd post it here in General where the most would probably see it. Mods feel free to close or move...

I'm just ending a 2 day long event at a recently built high end complex in my area. It is associated with a high profile hotel chain. Big beautiful brand new building(s). Yesterday afternoon I observed a Middle Eastern gentleman who while appearing to be video taping his children near the entrance also appeared to be discreetly panning the entrance area and taping it as well. When he noticed I was watching him he got an "UH-OH" look on his face. I simply smiled and continued on my way. Today, after a little overnight thought, I brought it to the attention of building security. They said to me, "Thank you for bringing this to us because we've had suspicions of something strange going on around here since BEFORE the building opened and you are helping to confirm our suspicions. We have several persons of interest that we are aware of and have recorded on our security system." They are supposed to contact me again on this.

Something is going on out there folks...

How's that go?

"SEE something? SAY something!"

[TallPine]

When he noticed I was watching him he got an "UH-OH" look on his face.
Yeah... he probably was thinking: "here I am just taking pictures of my kids and that guy probably thinks I'm a terrorist and is going to turn me in"

:p

[Hawkmoon]

Yeah... he probably was thinking: "here I am just taking pictures of my kids and that guy probably thinks I'm a terrorist and is going to turn me in"
:)

Yeah ... or maybe not.

[Joejojoba111]

I think the best time for action is when it's forced upon you. When the hostage takers pull out their guns, and try to assume control, THAT's the time that the populace needs to be vigilant.

Just my opinion.

[LightningJoe]

Suspicion is warranted. Some people are more suspicious-looking than are others. That's life. If 100% of terrorists look just like you, expect to get more attention.

[DMK]

If 100% of terrorists look just like you, expect to get more attention. 100%? I don't remember Timothy McViegh being of MiddleEastern descent. A terrorist could look just like you.

[ExtremeDooty]

100%? I don't remember Timothy McViegh being of MiddleEastern descent. A terrorist could look just like you.

Just one more reason to remain vigilant. Keep your eyes and your mind open.

[c_yeager]

Suspicion is warranted. Some people are more suspicious-looking than are others. That's life. If 100% of terrorists look just like you, expect to get more attention.

I think that you might just have offended the IRA and the ELF, the Neo-Nazis, and the all the little groups that fit in the cracks between them. If you think that all terrorists look the same, then it is you that is wearing blinders.

[Technosavant]

I think the best time for action is when it's forced upon you. When the hostage takers pull out their guns, and try to assume control, THAT's the time that the populace needs to be vigilant.

Just my opinion.

When that occurs, you are already behind the power curve and about to lose entirely. Do you just buckle your seat belt when a collision is impending, or do you think it might be a better idea to buckle it when you get in?

And also, while terrorists might be of any ethnic group, remember that it is the Middle Eastern bunches are the most active. You might find caucasian Islamic extremists (and we have), but the majority of active and worrisome cells are from the M.E.

[Mannlicher]

well, I am not all that sure that what you describe rises to the level of 'something to report'. What makes you so sure you were seeing a 'middle eastern' man? Take if from a Miami resident, they are hard to tell from an Indian, South American, or regular American citizen of many years and generations.
I think you are probably over reacting, and the security guys sound like amateurs.

[MachIVshooter]

In my observations, people who are up to no good try to keep a low profile. The more inconspicuous they try to be, the more nervous they act and the more obvious they are to the vigilant eye. For example, the guy who is lurking in the back of a convenience store he intends to rob will avoid any kind of interaction with customers or employees and act busy. So when you notice someone back by the refridgerated drinks constantly panning the store while taking extra measures to avoid eye contact with other folks or stay clear of cameras and mirrors, you should be suspicious.

Criminals are opportunistic and will take advantage of todays "mind your own business" attitude. To make their lives that much easier, many folks will pretend they didn't notice anything just to avoid becoming involved. More often than not, noticing and interacting with a potential criminal will cause them to abandon their plan. That guy who has been contemplating robbery will likely change his mind if a store employee notices his deliberately unprolific behavior and offers assistance. As for those of us who are store patrons rather than employees, we can either interfere with their plan by becoming an obstacle (stay close and make them aware that you have noticed them) or we can alert an employee to a potential problem. In the most drastic case where the criminal followes through with his plans, those of us with a higher-than-average sense of civic duty simply must evaluate the situation and determine an appropriate course of action. Those of us who are CCW holders have more options in such a scenario, but our actions have much more grave consequences as well.

[ajkurp]

A swarthy man with a wife, kids and camera! What will those cunning devils think of next?

Reminds me that two quite young men came into my store Saturday with a 45-50ish man that I took to be their father. They had all the signs of current duty military.

One young man finally sidled up to me and very earnestly said almost in a whisper,"You know, over there the men all have sex with other men. All they use the women for is having babies."

I kept a straight face and said,"Wow."

Didn't bother telling him that when he was shatting down his own legs, I spent more time in Araby than I ever wanted to. Their religion is phathetic, their hygene lousy, their society second rate but the men still like women.

I hope he lives long enough to grow up. Likewise anybody scared to death of a "middle eastern man and his kids"

[blackpanther]

www.usdoj.gov/ag/trainingmanual.htm

[280PLUS]

well, I am not all that sure that what you describe rises to the level of 'something to report'. What makes you so sure you were seeing a 'middle eastern' man? Take if from a Miami resident, they are hard to tell from an Indian, South American, or regular American citizen of many years and generations.
I think you are probably over reacting, and the security guys sound like amateurs.

Uh, I'm 110% sure he was Muslim. You naysayers weren't there but you'll pass judgement on something you didn't see. I knew I'd get that kind of response from some to this post. I even expected you to downplay the abilities of the security people. Let me tell you they seemed pretty professional to me. I was impressed. These ain't Mall Ninjas folks. They were asking the right questions. The way he was handling his camera seemed VERY suspicious to me and you would have had to see this to know what I'm talking about. He wasn't taping the kids he was taping what was around them and it happened to be the entrance. If I hadn't have stumbled across this going on noone would have ever known. All they're going to do is review the tapes for that point in time and see if: A. It is any of the people that they have "interest" in. B. Make up their own minds as to what, exactly, he may have been doing with his camera. C. See if they can find him anywhere else on their tapes and see if he makes any other moves that might raise suspicion. Do I feel good about profiling a man with his family? Nope, not at all. I even told the security people as I left that it really SUCKS that we have to think this way. They said, "Yes it does, but what can you do?"

Now sure, maybe it was all a bunch of innocent nothing but what if that place is attacked sometime in the future? I'd feel pretty bad having never told them what it was I saw. I'll err on the side of safety, thanks.

PS, I haven't given you all the details either. You have heard in the past that we SHOULD report people photographing our structures, right? That IS something we're supposed to be on the lookout for. You know that, right?

[280PLUS]

Panther, the link is not working?

[model 649]

If it J.D.L.R., it's worth reporting. There were plenty of J.D.L.R's leading up to the attack on N.Y. For instance, guys who want only to learn to fly aircraft, not how to land. That was a classic J.D.L.R. Got to use our judgement, but better than doing nothing IMHO. Tough to draw a hard line.

J.D.L.R. = Just Don't Look Right
Josh

[GRB]

I think the best time for action is when it's forced upon you. When the hostage takers pull out their guns, and try to assume control, THAT's the time that the populace needs to be vigilant.

Just my opinion.So the populace was to have been vigilant only when the Japanese attacked Peral Harbor, only when the Nazis actually invaded Poland, only as the planes flew into the Twin Towers of the World Trade Center, the pentagon and the PA field. I think you have confused vigilance with balls to the wall combat action. That definitely is not always the best action; it would be much better to take lesser action and cut off the need for such in the first place if practical. Don't you think it would have been better to avoid 9/11 altogether if the populace and the government had been more vigilant and taken care of the threat before it came to what it did? If people were vigilant (watchful) beforehand then many catastophes, like 9/11, could be avoided. By the way, Perpetual Vigilence is the price of Freedom, if only because some sack of turd always wants to take away that freedom when someone else has it.

All the best,
Glenn B

[blackpanther]

Panther, the link is not working?

Fixed now.Long but worth reading

Ede

[bluto]

I think you did the right thing 280PLUS. You observed suspicious behavior and reported it. No harm, no foul, no accusations, just a heads-up. It might be important.

There are Islamic terrorist cells in the U.S. just as there are in Britain (remember the recent subway bombings). Captured terrorist documents have often included pictures and layouts of major buildings and monuments (most recently the Washington monument).

I've lived in my neighborhood for over 20 years. There's a park down the street right next to an elementary school where my kids went. The other day I noticed a guy (white, 6'2" male) with wild, unwashed hair, boots with no laces, an overcoat who I did not recognize hanging out at the park while walking my dog early in the morning. On the second day, I reported him to the police.

Was he doing anything against the law? No. Was he a vagrant? Most likely.
And he was hanging out right next to an elementary school with little kids walking to and from school unsupervised every day. COMMON SENSE says he didn't belong there. He was suspicious. And if something had happened to any kids (he's gone, it didn't) I would never have forgiven myself for not calling someone's attention to this possible threat.

There are always lots of excuses NOT to take action.

[Live Free Or Die]

Uh, I'm 110% sure he was Muslim. You naysayers weren't there but you'll pass judgement on something you didn't see.

First you said he was middle eastern. Fair enough. But how do you go from that to 110% certainty on the man's religion, just by observing him with his camera? As you mentioned previously, perhaps you left some details out of your account.

I agree that none of us were present except you. I believe some of the skeptical responses you've received are due to incomplete information in your story -- nothing more, nothing less.

[Joejojoba111]

If it J.D.L.R., it's worth reporting. There were plenty of J.D.L.R's leading up to the attack on N.Y. For instance, guys who want only to learn to fly aircraft, not how to land. That was a classic J.D.L.R. Got to use our judgement, but better than doing nothing IMHO. Tough to draw a hard line.

J.D.L.R. = Just Don't Look Right
Josh

Then its JDLR that the FBI was in fact tipped off about those guys who didn't care about landing, the FBI did in fact raid their apartment, and the guys were conspicuously let go, and their computer. And there was absolutely no further actions taken. And then this guy who the FBI let go crashed a plane in to the WTC.

So the good citizen who 'dutifuly reported to the authorities' got jack squat done. But on another flight headed to the White House some citizens who didn't comply thwarted the terrorists.

Terrorists, you will notice, won't have enough ammunition to shoot every one of their hostages. Yea. Think about it.

In Moscow almost a thousand people sat still while terrorists with a few cartridges set up the bombs that would be able to kill all the people.

And there's no reason to suspect that a terrorist will use only 1 cartridge on each person.

[bogie]

I've lived in my neighborhood for over 20 years. There's a park down the street right next to an elementary school where my kids went. The other day I noticed a guy (white, 6'2" male) with wild, unwashed hair, boots with no laces, an overcoat who I did not recognize hanging out at the park while walking my dog early in the morning. On the second day, I reported him to the police.


Dang, guys, you wouldn't BELIEVE the way I was hassled the other day... There I was dreaming of... well, it was interesting, and then Killer, my pekinese/poodle mix, leaps on the bed, and tells me it's time to go enjoy nature... Well, if I ignore Killer, I know I can say goodbye to a pair of shoes, and I'll probably find a "present" in the middle of the living room... So, into the boots and the raincoat, and out the door. 10 minutes later, we're in the park, Killer's attacking a bush, and two squad cars show up, throw me on teh ground, and scare the heck out of Killer... Let me tell you, that isn't good. He won't touch his dinner now, but he ate my favorite pair of flipflops...

[bluto]

bogie -

Funny. Guess you've never had kids:

Suspect leads police to body

Cassandra "Casey" Williamson ?

VALLEY PARK, Missouri (CNN) -- A suspect held in connection with the disappearance Friday of a 6-year-old girl led authorities to a body police believe is that of Cassandra "Casey" Williamson, St. Louis County Police Chief Ron Battelle told CNN.

The drama gripped U.S. television viewers all day Friday, from the morning hours when the girl was reported missing to late afternoon, when a body matching her description was found in an abandoned glass factory near the girl's neighborhood.

Johnny Johnson, a 24-year-old transient, had been taken into custody.

The news came amid a series of morbid child abduction cases from coast to coast -- Elizabeth Smart in Utah, Samantha Runnion and Danielle van Dam in California. Earlier this week, Erica Pratt, a spunky 7-year-old Philadelphia girl, escaped captivity nearly a day after she was spirited into a car by two men.


????????

?
?
?
?

[Majic]

While people these days will associate a Middle Easterner with terrorism he could have been no more than the competition covertly checking on the new facitlity.

[solareclipse]

Yeah... he probably was thinking: "here I am just taking pictures of your kids and that guy probably thinks I'm a terrorist and is going to turn me in"

:p

a little alternate version...

[280PLUS]

uh, ok, let me rephrase:

I'm 110% sure he was BOTH Middle Eastern AND Muslim. How do you know I know this? I don't want to cause any unfounded panic buzz so I don't want anyone to know the exact location where this occured. You'll just have to take my word for it. That in itself is not enough to cause me to be suspicious but you take that and add it to some mighty strange camera handling and now red flags are popping up. I'll let the people in charge of that stuff decide for themselves what he might have been doing. Even if they STILL drop the ball on it, at least I tried to do my part. Personally, I HOPE I'm wrong.

You folks go ahead and live in your blissful little world, the rest of us will keep an eye on it for you...:rolleyes:

Panther, thanks for the fix. I did a quick run through, worthwhile read. Frighteningly prophetic. I wish I could copy and paste a few quotes from it. At least we know "places of pleasure" are SECONDARY TARGETS.

Quote:
Originally Posted by TallPine
Yeah... he probably was thinking: "here I am just taking pictures of your kids and that guy probably thinks I'm a terrorist and is going to turn me in"

or, he might have been thinking how he may have just blown the operation.

[c_yeager]

I'm 110% sure he was BOTH Middle Eastern AND Muslim

Oh my a hunnert and ten percent you say? Well i guess you showed us then huh? One cant possibly be full of it if they claim to be 110% sure of something! :rolleyes:

Im sure that your "friend of the state" junior police badge is in the mail. Good work subject, er i mean CITIZEN!

[280PLUS]

LOL... you guys are too much.

Take it for what it's worth...

With any luck they've canceled the operation here and are moving to your town.

[mete]

That is exactly how the Jap spies did it in Hawaii in 1941 !

[280PLUS]

I shot me a 100 - 7X last night. .22 at 25 yards. Timed fire: 2 strings of 5 shots, each string in 20 seconds. So APPARENTLY I CAN SEE.

Thank you

;)

[Double Naught Spy]

280PLUS, while is sounds like you did the right thing, I sort of have my doubts. I know, you won't care if I have my doubts or not and that is fine. However, you describe your very aware efforts in noting an activity you think was suspicious. However, you failed to provide any useful information.

You intimate that the "high end" hotel's beautiful buildings were being taped by a Muslim man acting like he was taping his kids. Then long after the fact, you reported to the building security that you saw a man taping. Of course by that time, it wasn't like security could do anything, nor could law enforcement.

So the building security thanked you for confirming their suspicions about strange goings-on. Here, they were simply placating you. Your observation confirmed nothing as you did not actually witness any activity that can be tied directly to any other activity. I find it interesting that the security folks told you that the had several people of interest recorded on their security system and would be getting back with you later. Pics in the system won't mean a darned thing if the building blows up. As for getting back with you later, do you really think that if you had confirmed their suspicions about strange goings-on that they would not want to followup with you right away. Instead, they said to you, "Don't call us. We'll call you."

I have no idea why you are being so cryptic about the hotel chain or your great powers to determine information about the guy. You are sure he is Muslim an Middle Eastern. How did you make these absolute determinations? You did not interview the man and you didn't report praying with him or seeing him pray. If you are basing your observation of religion based on what he was wearing, then we know that your determination is based on unreliable stereotype. Middle Eastern? How do you separate out those folks from the Middle East versus the Far East versus the Near East? Please do tell. You see, nobody has come up with a 100% sure set of traits that can be used to denote the differences of people from these regions. Why not? Simple, there is a tremendous amount of cultural and genetic overlap. So I think it is amazing that you have the powers to do what others can't do and so maybe you should be sharing your insight with folks who can better use it to protect our country instead of posting the greatness of your powers on a discussion forum where folks have trouble believing you.

Your "SEE something? SAY something!" stand isn't bad at all. Too bad that you saw something and didn't say anything to anyone of of consequence until long after the event and even then, you reported it to rent-a-cop security.

PS, I haven't given you all the details either. You have heard in the past that we SHOULD report people photographing our structures, right? That IS something we're supposed to be on the lookout for. You know that, right?

I think that concept went out the window when it was realized just how many people take pictures and shoot tape of buildings every day as part of normal activities, vacation, work, etc. I think if you go back, however, and check on the concept, reporting suspcious photography/taping was to law enforcement, not rent-a-cops.

[geekWithA.45]

Look...most of us here have reasonably tuned instincts/spider senses, and can tell when something isn't quite right, and when the tingling exceeds some level of threshold, we know that ignoring it's not the way to go.

We also know that folk matching certain descriptions gets them some "bonus points" that bump up the tingle a bit towards that threshold, whether its merited or not.

We're also wise enough to recognize that sometimes, this extra dose of tingle isn't universally merited, and jumping to conclusions isn't just.

Are we also wise enough to recognize that granting blanket exemptions is a bad idea too?

[280PLUS]

However, you describe your very aware efforts in noting an activity you think was suspicious. However, you failed to provide any useful information.

You intimate that the "high end" hotel's beautiful buildings were being taped by a Muslim man acting like he was taping his kids. Then long after the fact, you reported to the building security that you saw a man taping. Of course by that time, it wasn't like security could do anything, nor could law enforcement. You are absolutely right. I SHOULD have contacted someone sooner. I was very busy and this split second event caught my eye and I didn't make the connection at the time. After some thought (overnight) and the fact that I was there the next day anyways, I decided to bring it to their attention. Why do I agree with you? Because they asked me questions like. "How was he dressed? Salt and pepper beard? What door did you come in? What time" And you know what? I couldn't answer the questions. Maybe it is all nothing, that would be fine with me. But, and I love this, it JDLR.

Why am I being "cryptic"? Because I don't want anyone to pinpoint the location. That's why. Is that plain enough for you to understand? I recognize traditional Middle Eastern dress when I see it. How did I know they were MUSLIM? It was confirmedby security. How they confirmed it comes under not pinpointing the location. I said you'll just have to take my word for it.

As far as Rent a Cop security, who would you suggest I should have contacted? That's why they call them security. They took it very seriously, there was no "placation" going on. I was there, you were not. All conjecture on your part.

I think that concept went out the window when it was realized just how many people take pictures and shoot tape of buildings every day as part of normal activities, vacation, work, etc. Yes, you are right here too. Security there doesn't LIKE that people are milling about taking pictures but "Theres nothing we can do, IT'S A PUBLIC BUILDING."

I'm just the messenger, why attack me? I saw what I saw, it looked fishy, I reported it to the building officials. Late yes, but better than never.

Like it or not those "rent a cops" are the first line of defense. I'm not going to call the police. If, upon reviewing the tapes they feel it is necessary, THEY can call the police, or the FBI, whatever. That's THEIR job.

[hobbeeman]

+1 Geek

[cortez kid]

While I wasn't there and I can't backup his story, I know 280PLUS and if he says he seen something than you can believe he seen it as he says it. Keep up the good work 280, you never know and I ain't bettin' my grandkid's lives on a maybe not.
kid

[one-shot-one]

you did fine, some folks just want to debate anything. if these folks were not doing anything wrong they walked if not great. i have no problem talking to law enforcement if i resemble someone who did something wrong.

[rock jock]

Uh, I'm 110% sure he was Muslim. You naysayers weren't there but you'll pass judgement on something you didn't see. I knew I'd get that kind of response from some to this post. I even expected you to downplay the abilities of the security people. Let me tell you they seemed pretty professional to me. I was impressed. These ain't Mall Ninjas folks. They were asking the right questions. The way he was handling his camera seemed VERY suspicious to me and you would have had to see this to know what I'm talking about. He wasn't taping the kids he was taping what was around them and it happened to be the entrance. If I hadn't have stumbled across this going on noone would have ever known. All they're going to do is review the tapes for that point in time and see if: A. It is any of the people that they have "interest" in. B. Make up their own minds as to what, exactly, he may have been doing with his camera. C. See if they can find him anywhere else on their tapes and see if he makes any other moves that might raise suspicion. Do I feel good about profiling a man with his family? Nope, not at all. I even told the security people as I left that it really SUCKS that we have to think this way. They said, "Yes it does, but what can you do?"

Now sure, maybe it was all a bunch of innocent nothing but what if that place is attacked sometime in the future? I'd feel pretty bad having never told them what it was I saw. I'll err on the side of safety, thanks.

PS, I haven't given you all the details either. You have heard in the past that we SHOULD report people photographing our structures, right? That IS something we're supposed to be on the lookout for. You know that, right?You did good, you did right. Don't let the armchair commandos on this board get you down.

[det.pat]

you did the right thing, if you are not really in a position to complain if you are queried about security concerns. on the other hand if you are arrested, held without recourse, beaten, or killed thats different. as a privat investigator i often have no choice but to set up surveillance in a place i would usually avoid, such as a school area, et. occaisonally i am "burned" by the police for the same concerns that you have related. it's not a problem for me and i always cooperate because i understand what sort of things there are to fear in our country, and world. and i often wonder at the blind, blissninny way in which most people conduct their lives. [makes my job easier most days].
pat

[280PLUS]

I believe I've made myself understood clearly enough and now, if you don't mind, I'll be bowing out of this one.

:D

[juggler]

I will also chime in on 280's side.

Having met him several times, and gotten to know him a bit, I believe he acted after consideration, not a knee-jerk reaction........though I will be interested in hearing more when we next meet.

No harm, no foul far as I can see.

280, coming this Saturday?

[jcoiii]

A quick google of "terrorism in the US" gave this link as the second or third option. Site below quote. All bolding is mine


1985
April 12, Madrid, Spain: Bombing at restaurant frequented by U.S. soldiers, killed 18 Spaniards and injured 82.
June 14, Beirut, Lebanon: TWA Flight 847 en route from Athens to Rome hijacked to Beirut by Hezbollah terrorists and held for 17 days. A U.S. Navy diver executed.
Oct. 7, Mediterranean Sea: gunmen attack Italian cruise ship, Achille Lauro. One U.S. tourist killed. Hijacking linked to Libya.
Dec. 18, Rome, Italy, and Vienna, Austria: airports in Rome and Vienna were bombed, killing 20 people, 5 of whom were Americans. Bombing linked to Libya.

1986
April 2, Athens, Greece:A bomb exploded aboard TWA flight 840 en route from Rome to Athens, killing 4 Americans and injuring 9.
April 5, West Berlin, Germany: Libyans bombed a disco frequented by U.S. servicemen, killing 2 and injuring hundreds.

1988
Dec. 21, Lockerbie, Scotland: N.Y.-bound Pan-Am Boeing 747 exploded in flight from a terrorist bomb and crashed into Scottish village, killing all 259 aboard and 11 on the ground. Passengers included 35 Syracuse University students and many U.S. military personnel. Libya formally admitted responsibility 15 years later (Aug. 2003) and offered $2.7 billion compensation to victims' families.

1993
Feb. 26, New York City: bomb exploded in basement garage of World Trade Center, killing 6 and injuring at least 1,040 others. In 1995, militant Islamist Sheik Omar Abdel Rahman and 9 others were convicted of conspiracy charges, and in 1998, Ramzi Yousef, believed to have been the mastermind, was convicted of the bombing. Al-Qaeda involvement is suspected.

1995
April 19, Oklahoma City: car bomb exploded outside federal office building, collapsing wall and floors. 168 people were killed, including 19 children and 1 person who died in rescue effort. Over 220 buildings sustained damage. Timothy McVeigh and Terry Nichols later convicted in the antigovernment plot to avenge the Branch Davidian standoff in Waco, Tex., exactly 2 years earlier. (See Miscellaneous Disasters.)
Nov. 13, Riyadh, Saudi Arabia: car bomb exploded at U.S. military headquarters, killing 5 U.S. military servicemen.

1996
June 25, Dhahran, Saudi Arabia: truck bomb exploded outside Khobar Towers military complex, killing 19 American servicemen and injuring hundreds of others. 13 Saudis and a Lebanese, all alleged members of Islamic militant group Hezbollah, were indicted on charges relating to the attack in June 2001.

1998
Aug. 7, Nairobi, Kenya, and Dar es Salaam, Tanzania: truck bombs exploded almost simultaneously near 2 U.S. embassies, killing 224 (213 in Kenya and 11 in Tanzania) and injuring about 4,500. 4 men connected with al-Qaeda 2 of whom had received training at al-Qaeda camps inside Afghanistan, were convicted of the killings in May 2001 and later sentenced to life in prison. A federal grand jury had indicted 22 men in connection with the attacks, including Saudi dissident Osama bin Laden, who remained at large.

2000
Oct. 12, Aden, Yemen: U.S. Navy destroyer USS Cole heavily damaged when a small boat loaded with explosives blew up alongside it. 17 sailors killed. Linked to Osama bin Laden, or members of al-Qaeda terrorist network.

2001
Sept. 11, New York City, Arlington, Va., and Shanksville, Pa.: hijackers crashed 2 commercial jets into twin towers of World Trade Center; 2 more hijacked jets were crashed into the Pentagon and a field in rural Pa. Total dead and missing numbered 2,9921: 2,749 in New York City, 184 at the Pentagon, 40 in Pa., and 19 hijackers. Islamic al-Qaeda terrorist group blamed. (See September 11, 2001: Timeline of Terrorism.)

2002
June 14, Karachi, Pakistan: bomb exploded outside American consulate in Karachi, Pakistan, killing 12. Linked to al-Qaeda.

2003
May 12, Riyadh, Saudi Arabia: suicide bombers killed 34, including 8 Americans, at housing compounds for Westerners. Al-Qaeda suspected.

2004
May 29–31, Riyadh, Saudi Arabia: terrorists attack the offices of a Saudi oil company in Khobar, Saudi Arabia, take foreign oil workers hostage in a nearby residential compound, leaving 22 people dead including one American.
June 11–19, Riyadh, Saudi Arabia: terrorists kidnap and execute Paul Johnson Jr., an American, in Riyadh, Saudi Arabia. 2 other Americans and BBC cameraman killed by gun attacks.
Dec. 6, Jeddah, Saudi Arabia: terrorists storm the U.S. consulate killing 5 consulate employees. 4 terrorists were killed by Saudi security.

from this site http://www.infoplease.com/ipa/A0001454.html

Now, I tried to be accurate in my bolding. There are a couple of incidents in the past 20 years that I have no knowledge about (b/c I was only 5). The recent events in 2004 marked in bold were in fact committed by Muslim extremists. Now, I am unsure if these are all the attacks against the US or US citizenry in the past 20 years, but does anyone else see a pattern? I counted 20 incidents on this list. I also count 15 of these incidents were committed by Islamic terrorists. Hmm. That's 75% if my math skills haven't deteriorated. It's not my fault that 3/4 of terrorist attacks were committed by one group of people, but I will keep watch to make sure of anything suspicious (middle eastern or not). But as someone above stated, being middle eastern sometimes earns a second look from me.

[280PLUS]

Thanx juggler (and cortez) I'm afraid I'm supposed to take a long weekend away with the family, goin' to New Hampsta', so that will be my lame excuse for missing yet another. I'm thinking the following saturday looks open though. I'll PM you with some details on the "sighting" seeing how's we have a common interest. Speaking of cortez, we got o get HIM down there some saturday. It takes him a wee bit more than 3 hours to get here though.:eek: One thing I can tell you, he won't be undergunned...

:D

[NineseveN]

Yeah 280, you should have minded your own business and let the guy fly a plane into the building. :rolleyes:

If it don't look right, you tell somebody, period.

[Matt G]

"Off-topic" is only one of the reasons that I'm closing this thread for.