[Desertdog]

I wonder if they will do anything to send the immigrants packing.

Rioters fire on French police, injuring 10
Chirac says lawbreakers will be ‘arrested, judged and punished’



GRIGNY, France - Rioters fired shots at police in an 11th night of riots in France on Sunday, injuring 10 policemen, two of them seriously, police said.

Some 200 youths were lobbing stones and other objects at police in Grigny, south of Paris, a police spokesman said, adding that some of the rioters had fired at officers with shotguns, hitting 10 policemen.

Two officers were being treated in a hospital, one with lead shot wounds to the throat, the other with wounds to a leg.

Asked whether the rioters could have killed someone, the spokesman said: “Probably not at this distance, but they could have caused bad injuries, or turn one of the officers blind.”

Hours earlier, French President Jacques Chirac promised arrests, trials and punishment for those sowing “violence or fear” across the nation as the urban unrest that has triggered attacks on vehicles, nursery schools and other targets hit central Paris for the first time. Police said 35 cars were torched, most on the city’s northern and southern edges.

In central Paris, gasoline bombs damaged three cars near Place de la Republique. Residents reported a loud explosion and flames.

‘Very afraid’
“We were very afraid,” said Annie Partouche, 55, who watched the cars burning from her apartment window. “We were afraid to leave the building.”

Chirac spoke after a security meeting of his top ministers.

“The law must have the last word,” Chirac said in his first public address on the violence. Those sowing “violence or fear” will be “arrested, judged and punished.”

“The absolute priority is restoring security and public order,” he said. He said security measures would be reinforced.

The French president had faced criticism from opposition politicians for not publicly speaking about France’s worst civil unrest in more than a decade. His only previous comments came through a spokesman.

From an outburst of anger in suburban Paris housing projects, the violence has fanned out into a nationwide show of disdain for French authority from youths and minorities, most French-born children of Arab and black Africans angered by years of unequal opportunities.

Arsonists burned 1,295 vehicles nationwide overnight Saturday-Sunday — sharply up from 897 the night before, national police spokesman Patrick Hamon said, adding that police made 349 arrests nationwide.

For a second night, a helicopter equipped with spotlights and video cameras to track bands of marauding youths combed Paris suburbs and small teams of police chased rioters speeding from attack to attack in cars and on motorbikes.

“What we notice is that the bands of youths are, little by little, getting more organized,” arranging attacks through cell phone text messages and learning how to make gasoline bombs, Hamon said.

Bomb factory found
Police also found a gasoline bomb-making factory in a derelict building in Evry south of Paris, with more than 100 bottles ready to turned into bombs, another 50 already prepared, as well as fuel stocks and hoods for hiding rioters’ faces, senior Justice Ministry official Jean-Marie Huet told The Associated Press. Police arrested six people, all under 18.


The discovery Saturday night, he said, shows that gasoline bombs “are not being improvised by kids in their bathrooms.”

Police said copycat attacks are fanning the unrest but had no evidence of separate gangs coordinating. Officials said older youths, many already with police records, appear to be teaching younger teens arson techniques.

Unrest extended west to Normandy and south to Nice and Cannes on the Mediterranean coast, with attacks in or around the cities of Lyon, Lille, Marseille, Strasbourg. In all, 3,300 buses, cars and other vehicles have been incinerated in 10 nights, the police spokesman said.

In Evreux, 60 miles west of Paris, five police officers and three firefighters were injured in clashes with youths who destroyed at least 50 vehicles, shops and businesses, a post office and two schools, authorities said.

“Rioters attacked us with baseball bats,” said Philippe Jofres, a deputy fire chief, told France-2 television. “We were attacked with pickaxes. It was war.”

The rioting erupted Oct. 27 after two teenagers of north African descent were accidentally electrocuted as they hid in a power substation, apparently believing police were chasing them. Anger was then fanned anew days ago when a tear gas bomb exploded in a mosque in Clichy-sous-Bois — the northern suburb where the youths died.

Government officials have held a series of meetings with Muslim religious leaders, local officials and youths from poor suburbs to try to calm the violence.

The Associated Press and Reuters contributed to this report.


URL: http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/9891709/

[Iain]

I wonder if they will do anything to send the immigrants packing.

The ones with French citizenship? Where do they send them packing to then?

[longeyes]

Islamic firebrand calls on Muslims to leave Europe

PARIS, Sept 25 (AFP) - Firebrand Islamist cleric Omar Bakri Mohammed, banned from Britain since August, called on Muslims to leave Europe, in an interview with France 3 television to be broadcast Monday.

Bakri, a Lebanese national of Syrian origin who was living in Britain since 1986, was interviewed in Beirut where he is now based after the British government stripped him of his residency in its campaign to rein in radical Islamist leaders.

"There must be two distinct camps and so all Muslims must leave Europe," said Bakri, declaring that he was convinced "the Islamic flag will fly one day over Downing Street".

Bakri is head of the extremist movement Al Muhajirun -- meaning the emigrants in


Arabic.

Last January he said a "pact" between the British government and Muslims was "violated" because London started hunting for radicals after the September 11, 2001, attacks in the United States and later sent British forces to join the US-led intervention in Iraq.

Bakri famously praised the September 11 hijackers as "magnificent". Then, he triggered more outrage after the July 7 bombings on London Underground trains and a city bus when he said he would never tip off police if he knew a Muslim was about to carry out an attack.

In the French TV interview, Bakri went further saying the backgrounds of the four suicide bombers responsible for the July 7 attacks prove that the message of al-Qaeda chief Osama bin Laden "has reached the moderate communities".

He also called on the converts to Islam to come join him in Beirut "to learn Arabic before returning to Europe".

Last month he gave an interview upon his return to Beirut with Lebanon's Future TV where he condemned the "massacre" of innocent people and denied any links to the al-Qaeda terror network.

"We cannot support the massacre of innocents. We are against killing innocent people whether in New York, Spain or London, but we are also against the massacre of innocents in Iraq, in Palestine and elsewhere," Bakri said.

Bakri also said he intended to stay in Lebanon and bring his family over and called on all Islamist militants in exile to return to their countries.

Copyright AFP

[Joejojoba111]

I Think it's alot like the Globalization protests. Thousands of protesters show up with muffins and pillows, then a hundred anarchists start making trouble, for the sake of making trouble.

Probably the same situation there, a bunch of trouble makers stirring the pot up. Anarchists or actual terrorist sympathizers. Legitimate citizens with a grudge about racial inequality or something realize that they won't be better off from this.

It's kind of wierd that it's still going on, actually. The French police were very effective controlling tens of thousands of British hooligans who actually came to France to riot and fight the police. But the French, with their very powerful internal security abilities, are incapable of quelling the riots?

If I was in France I'd start wondering if the gov't was trying its best to stop them, or letting them keep going to justify some emergency action.

And kudos to the police officer for not playing up the lethality of the shotgun, didn't expect to see that. Over here you'd instantly have experts telling you that shotuns can shoot down helicopters or something, and calling the survival a miracle.

[Iain]

Sidenote - tens of thousands of British hooligans? The legends die hard eh? You may have been thinking of the tens of thousands of football fans and the few hundred who went to cause trouble.

[carebear]

Joe,

The hooligans were looking for a brawl, a good old fashioned dust-up. This is something very different.

Are you saying that it's just the 1%-ers throwing Molotovs all over France and Northern Europe and the hundreds/thousands of others would be singing Kum-by-ya and seeking dialogue otherwise?

Where's the evidence of that? With the deliberate caution the European media is using to avoid painting this unjustly as Islam-related surely they would be trumpeting any in-the-streets leaders calling for peace. Instead we have only a handful of mosque-bound community leaders plaintively asking for calm to no effect.

There's a difference between not exaggerating a situation and actively underplaying it.

[HighVelocity]

A half a dozen sharp shooters on roof tops could end this right now. :mad:

[Standing Wolf]

A half a dozen sharp shooters on roof tops could end this right now.

Would it take that many to persuade the French to surrender?

[Desertdog]

HighVelocity
A half a dozen sharp shooters on roof tops could end this right now.
I really doubt it. You must remember they are dealing mainly with Muslims. From what I hear, kill an infidel (anybody not a Muslim), go to heaven with 70 virgins at your beck and call, is their belief.

It is a wonder it is not a lot worse than it is.

[johnster999]

France's appeasment strategy has born fruit.

999

[DRZinn]

angered by years of unequal opportunities.Doubt it.

[solareclipse]

Why is everyone scared to call it like it is?

Crazy illegal muslim immigrants that shouldn't even be there fueled by france's backfiring foreign policy of the past 4 years.

Logically, germany is next.

[shootinstudent]

Crazy illegal muslim immigrants that shouldn't even be there fueled by france's backfiring foreign policy of the past 4 years.

Most of these kids were born in France. I've seen no evidence that most of the actual immigrants who are their parents are illegal. Do you have any?

Logically, I'd say having large groups separated by race/religion with unemployment numbers like 20 percent is the obvious cause of the problem. It's a recipe for disaster, no matter what group you plug into it...natives, colors, creeds, men, women...you name the group, if it's discriminated against and doesn't get enough jobs, unrest is nearly certain.

[solareclipse]

Most of these kids were born in France. I've seen no evidence that most of the actual immigrants who are their parents are illegal. Do you have any?

Logically, I'd say having large groups separated by race/religion with unemployment numbers like 20 percent is the obvious cause of the problem. It's a recipe for disaster, no matter what group you plug into it...natives, colors, creeds, men, women...you name the group, if it's discriminated against and doesn't get enough jobs, unrest is nearly certain.


french citizenship is by blood, not by birth. they are a nobody.

no, their separation is their choice and it is hard to apply this to other groups since other groups are not doing this.

[antarti]

Last January he said a "pact" between the British government and Muslims

I'd sure like to read the text of that!

France's appeasment strategy has born fruit.


If "sticking your nose in the air and pretending everything is fine" were good for anything, the French would rule the whole world.

I'd add their colonial policy too... and the scoffing they do at Americans for being so "different" (read traitorous ex-Europeans/Asians) as to actually assimilate and gush the virtues of our joint "Americanism" no matter what lesser-place our ancestors (or we) came from.

No national identity? All righty then... no national unity or national pride either.

All these Socialist countries (like our Canadian neighbors) who are importing warm bodies as fast as they can, to prop up their Ponzi entitlements systems, are going to reap the "rewards".

I just hope we aren't seeing our own future... our own barn door has been swinging for a long time. Far too many scoff when discussions turn to what we have in common (rather than our differences) as Americans.

[longeyes]

All these Socialist countries (like our Canadian neighbors) who are importing warm bodies as fast as they can, to prop up their Ponzi entitlements systems, are going to reap the "rewards".


And WE aren't?

[Iain]

french citizenship is by blood, not by birth. they are a nobody.

That's very interesting. Tells me what I need to know.

[balletto]

http://online.wsj.com/article/SB113131949542689562.html?mod=opinion_main_commentaries

Neatly describes the whole situation, and what's led up to it.

[nat]

> french citizenship is by blood, not by birth

nope

any immigrant child born and raised here can obtain the French citizenship (code civil, articles 19 et 21-7)

there are millions of them right now

[agricola]

This is not about anarchists, political repression, a racist state or lack of economic oppurtunities. Its about a large number of spoiled youths for whom noone - not their parents, not society and certainly not the state - has managed to instill any sense of discipline or respect for anything at all; something that is aided and abetted by society and especially the media generally absolving the individual of responsibility for their own actions. Just look at how this thing started - I mean, how on earth were the Police meant to stop someone from running into a power substation when they cant catch them in the first place?

Of course, these youths exist to greater or lesser degrees everywhere; but the problem in France is you have a long history of "liberal" ideas in the justice, especially youth justice, system combined with immigration dumping policies of the sort that have provoked lesser disturbances over here in the UK. Now Sarkozy has come along, speaking a language that anyone who has even an ounce of common sense realises is correct, and the spoilt youth dont like it and are kicking off - beating old men to death, setting disabled women and bus passengers on fire, stoning children, burning down schools, churches and nurseries, attacking firemen and shooting at police officers. Having seen that the first fatality has just been reported - a 61 year old man having been beaten to death for the heinous offence of stopping his bin being set alight by a mob of youths - half of me thinks that you lot may have been right all along.

[ElTacoGrande]

Despite help from thousands of reinforcements, the police appeared powerless to stop the mayhem. As they apply pressure in one area, the attacks slip away to another.
Well that sounds like a job for the militia. Oh wait, they don't have a militia in France. Sacre bleu!

I'm going to ask my Parisian Jewish friends what they think of this, if it makes them afraid to be there, and if they are going to do something about it, like buy a gun and support le droit de poseder et porter les armes.

As the others are saying, this is not about Islam. This is more about unemployment, racism, youth without a clue or a plan. Many of these youth are "Islamic" in the sense that they do the easy part (show up at the mosque and pray). In every religion, praying and showing up at church/mosque/etc is the easy part. The hard part is living life in the right way because that involves impulse control, something which isn't easy for anyone. So these youth are devout Moslems, they go to mosque, but they still drink, they riot, they are idle.

Strangley, in spite of all this, I still want to move to France.

[The Viking]

The ones with French citizenship? Where do they send them packing to then?
I believe France can revoke someones citizenship? (and have done so?)

[The Viking]

agricola: Best thing I've read during the whole day.

[longeyes]

Its about a large number of spoiled youths for whom noone - not their parents, not society and certainly not the state - has managed to instill any sense of discipline or respect for anything at all; something that is aided and abetted by society and especially the media generally absolving the individual of responsibility for their own actions.

What you say is true--as far as it goes. But the reality is that the rioters and thugs are almost entirely Muslim. The spoiled French non-Muslim kids aren't rioting.

[Fletchette]

Most of these kids were born in France. I've seen no evidence that most of the actual immigrants who are their parents are illegal. Do you have any?

The fact that they were born in France is irrelevant. They are raised in their own communities, completely separated from the country which they are actually living (sans welfare checks). Many do not even speak French.

I have a good friend that was born on a U.S. military base in Saudi Arabia. That doesn't make him Saudi Arabian - he was raised in an American culture.

[Iain]

I believe France can revoke someones citizenship? (and have done so?)

I remember it being discussed.

Of course all it does is create two classes of citizen, and I'm not in favour of that. Some seem to think that way anyway, as it would seem from the quote in my second post in this thread. All very interesting to me.

[TheEgg]

This is not about anarchists, political repression, a racist state or lack of economic oppurtunities. Its about a large number of spoiled youths for whom noone - not their parents, not society and certainly not the state - has managed to instill any sense of discipline or respect for anything at all; something that is aided and abetted by society and especially the media generally absolving the individual of responsibility for their own actions. Just look at how this thing started - I mean, how on earth were the Police meant to stop someone from running into a power substation when they cant catch them in the first place?

Of course, these youths exist to greater or lesser degrees everywhere; but the problem in France is you have a long history of "liberal" ideas in the justice, especially youth justice, system combined with immigration dumping policies of the sort that have provoked lesser disturbances over here in the UK. Now Sarkozy has come along, speaking a language that anyone who has even an ounce of common sense realises is correct, and the spoilt youth dont like it and are kicking off - beating old men to death, setting disabled women and bus passengers on fire, stoning children, burning down schools, churches and nurseries, attacking firemen and shooting at police officers. Having seen that the first fatality has just been reported - a 61 year old man having been beaten to death for the heinous offence of stopping his bin being set alight by a mob of youths - half of me thinks that you lot may have been right all along.

Agree 100%

All right, now who ARE you, and what have you done with our Agricola?:D

[agricola]

What you say is true--as far as it goes. But the reality is that the rioters and thugs are almost entirely Muslim. The spoiled French non-Muslim kids aren't rioting.

Based on my own experiences over here that isnt the case; and even when it is (we have a gang called the "Muslim Boys") they wouldnt be recognized as muslim by anyone - they have just stolen the name to make themselves sound tougher than they actually are.

[agricola]

Agree 100%

All right, now who ARE you, and what have you done with our Agricola?:D

lol

Still the same, its just the more experience one has of the British youth justice system the more you realise what an unworkable, entirely counter-productive disaster it is. Also I think you'll find my views on the media have not changed one bit :neener:

[Fletchette]

Based on my own experiences over here that isnt the case; and even when it is (we have a gang called the "Muslim Boys") they wouldnt be recognized as muslim by anyone - they have just stolen the name to make themselves sound tougher than they actually are.

I have heard this arguement before with Middle Eastern terrorists. How many people need to bomb westerners while screaming "allah akhabar!" and "jihad!" before we are allowed to say we are being attacked by Muslims?

[Master Blaster]

This is not about anarchists, political repression, a racist state or lack of economic oppurtunities. Its about a large number of spoiled youths for whom noone - not their parents, not society and certainly not the state - has managed to instill any sense of discipline or respect for anything at all; something that is aided and abetted by society and especially the media generally absolving the individual of responsibility for their own actions.

Actaully someone has instilled values in them, and they have done an excellent job, of inculturating them in the Values of 70 virgins, and the importance of a martyrs death while fighting the infidels.

Anyone care to guess who is teaching these youths their values??????

[agricola]

I have heard this arguement before with Middle Eastern terrorists. How many people need to bomb westerners while screaming "allah akhabar!" and "jihad!" before we are allowed to say we are being attacked by Muslims?

You misunderstand me, though as i didnt explain myself thats not surprising. what i meant was is that these youths smoke dope, sell crack, whore around, steal, rob and sometimes rape, get involved in gangsta culture etc. They only affect themselves as Muslims because they think it gives them respect and/or makes people fear them; certainly the ones I have ever had dealings with have never asked me for the Quran, or asked which way is East, or asked for Halal food.

Where former gang members have become fundamentalist (such as the 7th July bomber Jermaine Lindsay and shoe bomber Richard Reid) it is because they saw Islam as a way out of what is definately a feckless existence. If they didnt turn into terrorists as a result it would be commendable.

[Iain]

No-one is saying that we aren't being attacked by muslims.

I'm curious here - why is no-one using this opportunity to attack the French? I mean they're an easy target, and accusations of French society being racist are commonplace, after all Jean-Marie Le Pen did rather well in some election some time ago.

I'm curious as to why (despite the amusingly witty 'surrender' jokes) the French are getting a pass here. Anyone got a theory?

[Fletchette]

No-one is saying that we aren't being attacked by muslims.

I'm curious here - why is no-one using this opportunity to attack the French? I mean they're an easy target, and accusations of French society being racist are commonplace, after all Jean-Marie Le Pen did rather well in some election some time ago.

I'm curious as to why (despite the amusingly witty 'surrender' jokes) the French are getting a pass here. Anyone got a theory?

Hmmm. Well I did start the "What should France do?" poll...

I do not absolve the French by any means. It would be a minor annoyance if they were simply the snobs that treat us badly when we visit Paris on vacation, but the French have been actively sabotaging our efforts to combat Islamic extremists all over the world. They are helping Iran with their nuclear reactor. They sold Saddam GPS jammers. They completely ignored the U.N. "embargo" and were lining their pockets at the expense of the Iraqi people. Now, they are fighting Islamic terrorists on their own soil. I see it as a win-win situation!:D

[longeyes]

You misunderstand me, though as i didnt explain myself thats not surprising. what i meant was is that these youths smoke dope, sell crack, whore around, steal, rob and sometimes rape, get involved in gangsta culture etc. They only affect themselves as Muslims because they think it gives them respect and/or makes people fear them; certainly the ones I have ever had dealings with have never asked me for the Quran, or asked which way is East, or asked for Halal food.


I think you are confirming an ugly truth: Radical Islam combined with permissive socialism is a poisonous brew.

Go to jihadwatch.com for visual/aural proof that the doings in France involve Islamic extremism.

[agricola]

No-one is saying that we aren't being attacked by muslims.

I'm curious here - why is no-one using this opportunity to attack the French? I mean they're an easy target, and accusations of French society being racist are commonplace, after all Jean-Marie Le Pen did rather well in some election some time ago.

I'm curious as to why (despite the amusingly witty 'surrender' jokes) the French are getting a pass here. Anyone got a theory?

Its probably because people recognize that this is gang violence masquerading as social unrest. I'd also question whether French society is racist - as I see it, all they ask is that aspiring Frenchmen aspire to the same principles as those who live there already; and its not as if behaviour like this is going to make people sit up and notice that the people from the banlieu are all right after all, is it?

As you mention him, I would imagine Le Pen and the FN are delighted at current events, gleefully awaiting the next elections where they will no doubt clean up - after all, these youths have made it that much more easy for him to say he was right and everyone else was wrong (just as the BNP made a lot of headway after Bradford and Oldham after those riots).

[longeyes]

Le Pen and his kind wouldn't arise if there were some tough, clear thinking on the other side.

[agricola]

Le Pen and his kind wouldn't arise if there were some tough, clear thinking on the other side.

there isnt, thats the problem.

[Iain]

I've no real reason to believe that French society is particularly racist either. And you're right, Le Pen will be delighted. If he did well out of protest votes against Chirac and Jospin, imagine how well he'll do out of this. I'd imagine at least as well as the BNP did.

What I'm asking though is this - right now there are two possible causes for these riots being discussed on THR. Of course there is no real indication that either is correct or whether both play a role, but here they are -

1. French society is racist and opportunities for immigrants are restricted (at least in the eyes of the rioters)
2. Muslims

So why is it that many seem to be opting for 2 when 1 gives them some significant Frog-bashing ammunition?

[Fletchette]

What I'm asking though is this - right now there are two possible causes for these riots being discussed on THR. Of course there is no real indication that either is correct or whether both play a role, but here they are -

1. French society is racist and opportunities for immigrants are restricted (at least in the eyes of the rioters)
2. Muslims

So why is it that many seem to be opting for 2 when 1 gives them some significant Frog-bashing ammunition?

I think it is both. The French really are racist and hassle the immigrants, and these particular immigrants have a really short fuse.

As I said before, it is a win-win situation!

[Fletchette]

I'll elaborate.

One of my very best friends (he is also my business partner) is an Iranian-born Kurd that had the misfortune of escaping Iran to France. He lived in France for several years and has told me many a story of being hassled by the French police. I won't go into detail, but if the things they did were done inthe U.S. there would be a sizable lawsuit. All of this happened about 15 years ago.

The other thing that he says is that the Muslims in the immigrant zones are equally racist due to their religious beliefs. (My friend is non-religious). He states quite flatly that if he and I walked down the street when he lived there, he would be beaten up for associating with an "infidel" (I am white with blond hair). I would be killed.

Now granted, this is simply the opinion of one person, but it seems to be in complete agreement with everything that is going on.

[TrybalRage]

MSNBC is reporting that violence has spread to 500 towns, and similar things are happening in Belgium and Germany.

[agricola]

I've no real reason to believe that French society is particularly racist either. And you're right, Le Pen will be delighted. If he did well out of protest votes against Chirac and Jospin, imagine how well he'll do out of this. I'd imagine at least as well as the BNP did.

What I'm asking though is this - right now there are two possible causes for these riots being discussed on THR. Of course there is no real indication that either is correct or whether both play a role, but here they are -

1. French society is racist and opportunities for immigrants are restricted (at least in the eyes of the rioters)
2. Muslims

So why is it that many seem to be opting for 2 when 1 gives them some significant Frog-bashing ammunition?

Thats the thing though; your option one is the excuse that is trotted out every time these things happen. The problem with it is that it is an excuse, for two reasons:

i) the people who are doing the rioting are not deprived, they are not discriminated against by the job market / state whoever. In most cases they are discriminated against because of their own actions - one imagines in the US someone who has a criminal record is less likely to be hired than someone without one. The French could introduce positive discrimination, change their laws and throw money at these housing estates and nothing would change because the rioters want something without working in order to get it and have no respect for the system that would allow such a deal to work anyway. Please note that there is a difference between the rioters and those who live on those estates.

ii) it excludes those people who live in those areas, who arent rioting (in fact the same people who are seeing their schools, their daycare centres and their buses going up in flames) and who have jobs through which they support themselves and their families and attempt to better themselves. Its not glamorous, its often hard and unpleasant work and it can take a generation or two but it is the way that immigrant communities become integrated into a host society, how they become a success and ultimately how racists like Le Pen are defeated.

I, of course, subscribe to option 3 - that these riots are the actions of a criminal minority trying to flex its muscles, at the expense of those who live in those estates, and society generally.

[Stand_Watie]

While I don't pretend to understand the situation intimately, Agricola's assessment rings of truth to me.

I don't dismiss the Islamism influence for the manner in which these things are spreading and catching ahold in a wide geographical area, but as horrific as the property damage is, if our news reports of the actual person/person human violence at this point are accurate, it seems to me that most of these rioters are behaving more like soccer "hooligans" or like American rioters following a sports victory than like people bent on murder.

I don't believe it's for lack of opportunity - though no doubt anti-gunners will sneer that it's our firearms that cause some of our riots to be more lethal - as an example, they burned a bus yesterday where they first disembarked the passengers - I think at this point if they were truly interested in murder there'd be a lot more dead bodies.

[longeyes]

it excludes those people who live in those areas, who arent rioting (in fact the same people who are seeing their schools, their daycare centres and their buses going up in flames) and who have jobs through which they support themselves and their families and attempt to better themselves. Its not glamorous, its often hard and unpleasant work and it can take a generation or two but it is the way that immigrant communities become integrated into a host society, how they become a success and ultimately how racists like Le Pen are defeated.


Unfortunately, today's multiculturalist socialism doesn't want to wait a gen or two, much less find themselves assimilated.

Are these kids just gangstas? Yeah, but that ignores the fact that radical Islam itself is nothing but a variant of gangsterism, not true religious expression.