[1911]

Wearing spec ops clothing in public?

I see a lot of people wearing spec ops (SEAL ,Force shirts and such) out in public to show their support for the troops but I have seen on other media and forums that spec ops members don’t like that.

What could be the reason for them disliking people wearing these clothes while they are showing respect for them?

This never came up with 9/11 when grandmothers and children started showing their respect for the fallen cops and fire department members when they started dawning NYC hats and such!

[JoeSF]

I talked to navy guy one time who thought if you weren't in the unit or on the ship you shouldn't wear the hat. He was proud of what he did and it was part of the uniform.
I have hats from every ship I visited, but was't wearing one at the time.

[Hkmp5sd]

I don't mind folks wearing t-shirts, hats, etc. bearing military insignia. The thing I don't like is when they portray themselves as actually earning that insignia when in fact they did not. Some badges and symbols take a lot of time and effort for the military person to qualify for and seeing a wannabe tends to make those of us that did go through it angry. I personally do not wear clothing bearing military insignia that I did not actually earn.

[El Tejon]

Never.

[Azrael256]

Yellow ribbons, American flags, and a camo-print bandanna for me. I respect their right to wear what they want, but I don't do it.

[Sir Galahad]

Wait a sec, here, though. The entire 101st Airborne wears the airborne tab even though that has not been a true airborne division for decades. They are "air assault" now (and, yes, I got my wop-wop wings while I was with the Funky Chicken.) But everyone in the div wears the airborne tab whether they went to aur assault school or not. It's part of the unit patch.

[1911]

I feel the same way about people trying to pass themselves off as people that have been there and done that.but wearing a garment in a show of respect for a unit is nothing more than that.Showing respect.You would think that you stepped on their dead mothers grave the way some of the spec ops guys talk when you wear a SEAL shirt out in public.

[Don Gwinn]

I disagree. I don't wear that stuff for a reason. If I had worked my way into one of those units, I wouldn't want an overweight school teacher with a beard walking around in my unit's insignia.

It's not a rock band. YMMV.

[feedthehogs]

Some elite military unit members are no different than swat, fire dept, ems or any other special groups.

Most members do not care if civilians wear clothing.
In fact most members could care a less and want nothing to do with past associations.

There are some who's whole idenity has revolved around that elite membership and who take it a personaly if someone who has not been a member, wears the clothing.

By being part of an elite group it lets them stand apart from an otherwise normal or run of the mill life.

While I'm proud of what I've done in the past, I don't care about who wears what. That part of my life is gone by and I'm to busy livin to give a crap.

The only thing I can't figure out is why people wear POLICE or SWAT team shirts.

Nothing like putting a bulls eye on your back.

[444]

feedthehogs brings up an interesting point. Since 9/11 there are millions of people wearing NYPD and NYFD hats and T-Shirts. In fact major league baseball teams wore those hats during games. None of those people went into those burning towers as they were coming down. But, they want to show their support and thanks to those guys who did and never made it out alive. What is wrong with that ?
We have people from all over the world come into our station on a daily basis and want one of our T-Shirts. If anyone has an extra, they get it.

[riverdog]

I also don't wear shirts or hats with unit insignia because folks always ask about the unit. Then when you honestly admit that it's just a T-shirt, you're an instant wannabe, even if you don't want to be. The only thing I wear that comes close is a pair of gym shorts that says:
N
A
V
Y
down the side. I'm retired Navy so it doesn't bother me to wear those at all. You will never catch me wearing a SEAL T-shirt or hat, never, no way. Same with anything Army or Marine Corps. I respect them by not encroaching. It isn't just a T-shirt.

[1911]

Don,

I respect what your saying but I don’t agree with your logic.

Why would it bother you if an over weight school teacher is trying to show his respect for your hard work and dedication?

People have been wearing Us armed forces clothing for decades.Heck I even participate in re-enactments where I wear colonial and southern forces uniforms but that does not make me a solider or a wanna be.

A friend of mine was in service on the Jessie Brown and gave me a hat.He is very proud when I wear it out in public.Why is it that only the spec ops seem to have a problem with it?

[Preacherman]

I think the Special Forces have a special problem, in that there are many who claim to have been in SpecFor in one guise or another, but are really fakers. In fact, some SpecFor outfits (particularly the SEALs) have some of their ex-members devoting a lot of time and attention to exposing the fakers for what they are. I haven't come across many who falsely claim service in the Armed Forces in general, but I've certainly seen more than my fair share of those who claim to have been Rangers, or SEALs, or Airborne. If one looks at the percentages, rather less than 5% of the armed forces come anywhere near a SpecFor qualification, but of those who publicly boast about having served in the military, in my experience, something over 50% claim to have been in SpecFor! Something not quite right here... For a graphic example, try visiting the Vietnam Memorial in Washington D.C. and check out the number of guys in uniform, wearing medals, who walk around approaching visitors and telling them all about their deeds of derring-do. (Perhaps that last should be derring-do-do! :fire: )

I guess the SpecFor guys are just trying to preserve their hard-won turf. I don't have a problem with that.

[Destructo6]

I wear my Bro's squadron t-shirts all the time (wearing a Pt Mugu one right now). Used to wear my own command t-shirts from Okinawa regularly before some a-hole stole them out of a laundry room dryer.

I have no problem with someone wearing a generic Army/Navy/USMC/AF t-shirt with no personal connection.

IMO, a person wearing a specific command or unit's t-shirt should have a personal connection.

[JoeSF]

While you have been arguing what to wear you have been surrounded by the Iraqi army.......come out with your hands up!
Take their tee shirts AL Hababb!
-----------------------------------------------------------------------
A lot of people just want to show support for our troops.

[Boats]

Heck, my old ship and many of the ones who visit Portland Oregon sell/sold ship's logo ballcaps to all takers to raise money for the welfare and recreation fund. I don't have a problem with earnest civvy interest in (or support of) military units they have never been in. After all, the taxpayers paid for everything I used in the military. It is hard for landlubbers to fake being a squid anyways. Furthermore, I can't really fathom why anyone would bother.

The special forces guys, and Marines generally, have a different problem of course. The legitimate ones are tarred by the stupid antics of the fakes and wannabes. There is little to gain by spending one's valuable time exposing the cretins who'd try to pass themselves off as the geniune article. Anyone with half a brain will eventually have their BS detector go off on a guy who comes off like Bill Paxson's used car salesman/super spy character in True Lies.

[1911]

Excellent points about the spec ops having a problem with wanna bees and fakers trying to pass themselves off as the real thing.I think there is a much bigger percentage of people faking special forces activity than the enlisted men.I think the anology of Bill Paxson's used car salesman/super spy character in True Lies is a excellent example of what the special forces real beef is with people wearing the shirts.

There are squirrels everywhere but I still am asking the question of why a 84 year old grandma with saggy boobs, wearing a Trident T-shirt in a classic form of respect for the SEALS would get publicly slammed by spec ops just because she was wearing a shirt out of respect?

[Kharn]

I work on a naval base as a civilian, I'd never even think about wearing my Washington or Stennis caps, they are for display only (I toured the Washington and went on one of the 1-day family-type cruises on the Stennis).

Kharn

[JimP]

First, special forces guys really wouldn't care who wears what with SEAL on it, they are different units.

Special Forces is an Army unit and an Army unit alone. Please get the nomenclature correct.

Most BTDT's don't really care until the wannabe's open their suckholes and start spoutin crap about being agent orange and HALO'ing into Baghdad to rescue the President's 16 year old beauty-queen nymphomaniac daughter. Everyone knows that I'm the only guy to have ever done that. :evil:

[Kharn]

JimP: Chelsea was a nymphomaniac? Ugh, talk about TMI, you need to get some help...
:neener:

Kharn

[1911]

I am not up on my miltary nomenclature like I should be.I guess I should say SPec Ops.How is that?You been hanging out at that other website?

[Quartus]

If you don't have orders authorizing it, you have no right to wear it. Period. Those who haven't served have no right to an opinion on the subject.


Most members do not care if civilians wear clothing.
In fact most members could care a less and want nothing to do with past associations.


I don't know where that's coming from, but my experience with the real deals is just the opposite.

[rock jock]

I went into my dealer's shop a few months ago and there was this guy with a military haircut, muscle T-shirt, about 30ish, with a rather large tattoo on his upper arm that bore the SEAL symbol and said "SEAL Team 3". Normally I would ask the guy if he had been in the SEALs and about his experiences. In this case, the guy had a beergut the size of a watermelon and I was afraid of the answer I would get.

[1911]

“If you don't have orders authorizing it, you have no right to wear it. Period. Those who haven't served have no right to an opinion on the subject.”


Quartus

WhAt do you mean that we have no opinion on the subject? Are we not the tax payers that flip the bill and are protected by the constitution that you swore to uphold?

This is exactly the mentality I am asking about. When someone chooses to wear the spec ops shirts in public, in most cases they are not trying to be wanna bees but they are showing support for the unit and the cause.I read on another internet site that a Navy SEAL wore a NYC firefighters emblem on his vest in AFganastan and said that it would be the last thing the enemy saw right before he turned his lights out..Was this person a wanna be or someone that had no right to wear it and should have had no opinion on the subject.?

I am as patriotic as can be but you sir have no right to tell me what I can wear and what I can’t wear.Its a free country with free speech and its protected by the constitution.When I wear a Army Generals uniform and show up on CNN as a expert then you will have the right to condemn me!

Rock Jock,

Don’t fall into the trap that a lot of people fall into and judge a book by its cover.Many of the spec ops personnel that are now retired have not seen to it to keep in shape like they did when they where in sevice.Have you seen a recent pic of Richard Marcinko?

Enough said!

[ahadams]

As mentioned elsewhere I used to drive a desk for Army Intelligence. From time to time I got to interact with some special operators but not all that often and my impression was, at least at that time, that it was safest if one did not claim to be one of them, and did not wear whatever their distinctive badge was. For SF was the metal de oppresso libre (or however that goes), badge and the green beret with group flash, SEALS it was their seal qualification badge ( if you are not a SEAL do not EVER use the term "budweiser" for the badge to a SEAL, even if he uses it first) to the Rangers it was their Ranger tab and Black beret (there's a general who's got a lot to answer for that one in Army heaven, lemme tell you), and I have no idea what the USAF PJ's or the USMC Force Recon guys have 'cause I never worked around any of them.

just my 2 cents' worth,

[Skunkabilly]

Only the one I had from when I was on the Teams :D

[Destructo6]

I went into my dealer's shop a few months ago and there was this guy with a military haircut, muscle T-shirt, about 30ish, with a rather large tattoo on his upper arm that bore the SEAL symbol and said "SEAL Team 3". Normally I would ask the guy if he had been in the SEALs and about his experiences. In this case, the guy had a beergut the size of a watermelon and I was afraid of the answer I would get.
No reason why he couldn't have been the real deal. Go in at 18, do your 6 years under the DiveFarer Program still leaves 6 years to grow a beer gut before turning 30.

When I was going through NavHosp Corps School in 1991/1992, there was an active duty SEAL attached to the command in some security capacity. He was late 20's (1st Class) and had quite the nice ponch going.

I've never seen orders allowing non-standard t-shirts in uniform (or out of uniform for that matter). When it was done, it was sort of just done.

[JackC]

If I didn't earn it, steam on it, was stationed there I don't wear it. In fact my wife bought me a USS Midway ball cap, I will not wear since when I was on her (The Midway)ships ball caps were not being issued.
Wear a Seal tee shirt??
Not a chance.
Jack

[feedthehogs]

Quartus,
That statement came from me.

For two years I was co-host of a radio show called the Constitution Hour.

One day I wore a HALO T shirt.
My partner asked if I had ever done a HALO and I replied no. It was my brothers that he grew out of and he asked if I wanted it.
I asked him if it was okay to wear since I never did a HALO, he, having done many said yes. As long as if anybody asked, I tell the truth about who's shirt it was.
Most of my listeners knew I flew C-130's in the military at a different time than my brother.
This started a weeks long topic about wearing military wear, BDU's, t-shirts, hats, etc.

I had kept a running total of calls thru the week, about 2500 callers.

Those that served in WWII or Korea did not care at all 100%.
They thought it showed support as long as the clothing was not defaced.

Those that served in Vietnam responded with a positive response about 75% for. Again as long as the clothing was not defaced and if asked, the truth be told about the persons true service or lack of.

I did not get any response from the first Gulf conflict.

We did get some real negative comments from some who claimed to have been in elite service groups. Most all these guys had attitude problems and chips on their shoulders a mile high on just about everything.

It futher broke down into those that served during war or a conflict and those that served during peace time.
Those that served during peace time had the most problem with the clothing wearing.

There is nothing to be taken lightly about the brutal training that some of the elite forces go thru. I give them all their just do's and respect. But no more than anyone who serves in any capacity and puts their life on the line to protect others in any line of work.

To most of the listeners the clothing showed support. A sight most lacking after the Vietnam conflict.

As long as it was worn with dignity and the truth be told if asked, the majority said no problem.

One caller had put it best.
My service to this country will always be with me inside. When I walk down the street, no one knows but God and I. And in the end, that's all that really counts.

[Leatherneck]

Wow. I've never seen so many bunched panties over shirts and hats. :D

TC
TFL Survivor

[Double Naught Spy]

I am not sure that many of the folks are wearing such gear as a way of showing support for the military. I think many are trying to garner favor by appearing to have been associated with the military. One thing I have noticed in Dallas is that the number of panhandlers wearing military stuff has gone up quite a bit since the war started. Just about all are veterans, or so it would seem.

For some of the others, I don't think, "Special Forces, Kill them all and let God sort them out" is all that much of a supportive shirt slogan.

[1911]

Excellent post feedthehogs.Your post I feel is the most accurate because it incorporates a “study” if you will.

I have long suspected that the majority of those that served supported wearing in public and I felt the rest of the country was behind it also.Your data just goes to prove that there are just a “few” out there with attitude problems and chips on their shoulders stirring up the trouble.

[Edward429451]

Aw, I'd suspect that this would be thought of with amusement by the real SF guys. So many people wear that stuff that it almost makes the real guys to be in camo next to the the armchair warriors who wear it.

Or not.

[1911]

Yeah,you would think that the guys that have been there and done that would be comfortable knowing that they could walk the walk and sit back and laugh about it!

[feedthehogs]

It can almost be guaranteed that those who shout the loudest about their achievements in life are those that never achieved at all or fell way short.

Those that have achieved have an inner sense of accomplishment that can't be aquired by the external display of clothing or tatoo's.

All who served in any capacity protected the 1st amendment, which includes the wearing of clothes with words.

Those that didn't serve are still Americans.

Wear your shirts proudly America, just be honest when asked.

I may not agree with many opinons, but I'll die fighting to protect your right to express yours.

:cool: One way to solve this problem would be to make clothing optional in this country.
On second thought, only those that should be wearing clothing take thiers off.

Never mind.

[George Dickel]

I wear a Braves baseball hat sometimes. My wife has a Tennessee Titans shirt. Neither of us has ever been or ever will be professional athletes. Professional athletes work hard to get and maintain the positions they hold just like the military personnel work hard to attain their positions in the elite units.

Are all who wear sports teams apparel just wannabees? Bet you will find quite a number of the elite military wear something to show their support for their favorite team. How many of you wear some sports team apparel? Are you a professional athlete?

The mature professional military person who is confident in his abilities and skills will not be bothered by someone wearing apparel representing their branch as long as it is done in a respectful manner.

[XLMiguel]

This is getting pretty silly. People wear military-related stuff for a lot of reasons, some better than others. Some out of respect, support, & affinity, some because they think it looks 'cool', some are idiot wannabee's, but long & short, there's nothing anyone can do about it anyway.

Back to gun-related issues, yes?

[George Dickel]

feedthehogs, I want clothing to be mandatory. Where I work they hire by the pound. :D

[feedthehogs]

For those who think this is a silly topic, your wrong.
No topic is wrong if brought up in the proper place.

Those wishing to participate, do so. If not, see ya.


This is a legitimate discussion in the proper forum.

Those who wish to discuss gun related topics, go to the gun forums.

proper forum

[shadow 1]

While on travel to foriegn countries it's in my duties to visit with the RSO at the Embassies and always pick up a Polo or tee from the the Marine Security Guard Det. there, it helps them support the Marine House bar or other stuff. I've gotten to know the Marines at more than a few Embassies and always show my support to them by buying a shirt or drinking at the House when time allows. Those are probably the only unit specific shirts I wear other than my Army ones.
YMMV :D

[rock jock]

Don’t fall into the trap that a lot of people fall into and judge a book by its cover.Many of the spec ops personnel that are now retired have not seen to it to keep in shape like they did when they where in sevice.Have you seen a recent pic of Richard Marcinko?
You are certainly right. In this case, the combination of the new recruit haircut and his age didn't jive. If he was going to let himself go and embrace the civilian life, why the military haircut? No, the guy looked like a flabby high school dropout security guard and I would bet money that's exactly what he was.

[1911]

I would have asked him who he was and what unit he was with and then ask him some trick questions to try and see if he is telling the truth.If he was a faker I would find the nearest SEAL and report him.They definitely have a way of handling liars.

[sonny]

MY father was in the 101st.....when he was alive he gave me a screamin eagles T shirt for a gift.......Gee?.....would it be alright if I wore it outside? :confused: ........would I be offending anyone?
.............I COULD CARE LESS!........It's nobody's biz but mine.......
and I would love to have someone tell me otherwise.
.........................IT'S A T-SHIRT!!!!!!!!!!!........................:what:

[Mike Irwin]

I don't wear any type of US military clothing.

I never served.

If you're talking about the non-military clothing that has logos, slogans, etc., I generally don't wear that, either, as I don't have any.

I will occasionally wear a US Park Police ball cap, which was given to me by a friend.

[1911]

Mike in VA.

You may not like the message that is being discussed here or perhaps you are one of the ones that feels that people should not where spec ops clothing out in public.

Which ever it is there is a simple answer.Go to a gun forum if you wish to talk about guns and stay out our discussion unless you have something with some merit to add.

[rock jock]

I would have asked him who he was and what unit he was with and then ask him some trick questions to try and see if he is telling the truth.If he was a faker I would find the nearest SEAL and report him.They definitely have a way of handling liars.
I wouldn't have any clue what to ask. I really know very little about spec ops groups except that they have a lot of neat weapons that I would like in my safe. The guy could have pulled out half a dozen acronyms and I would have just smiled and nodded.

[scotjute]

I wear the BDU camo shirts when I go hunting/hiking. Don't think there are insignias on them (they're second hand). Will conciously look and remove after reading this topic. Hope my wearing the shirts doesn't offend anyone. We can get them cheap where I'm at and they're better (nice pockets, material, etc) than some of the commercial stuff. I really liked them.

[Dannyboy]

the combination of the new recruit haircut and his age didn't jive.
You really can't go off of this either. I had shorter hair before I went into the Army than the entire time I was in the Army, except for long training rotations, then I went with the "Hi and Tight."

[MeekandMild]

Gee, all I have left from my military service time is one set of Nomex long johns I keep for winter hunting trips. I threw away my last green tee shirt when a guy at a fishing camp asked me if I was a former Marine. He refused to believe Air Force weenies wore green tee shirts too. :D

I do have some unofficial Navy squadron tee shirts that my oldest kid gave me. Great conversation starters and nobody can fault a doting old man. ;)

[MMcCall]

I wear an Oregon State ballcap almost every day, but I don't go there. I have a turtleneck with the new USAF logo on it, that I wear to honor a beautiful, intelligent, and wonderful woman that I probably would have married if she hadn't felt the need to go fly AWACS planes.

If anyone ever asks me about either piece of clothing, I'll tell them exactly what I just typed.

Wannabes can rot in hell, but wearing something out of respect or admiration is honorable. Amazing how people will fight to the death for the second amendment, but want to limit the first.

[Quartus]

WhAt do you mean that we have no opinion on the subject?

you sir have no right to tell me what I can wear and what I can’t wear.Its a free country with free speech and its protected by the constitution.

1911, you need to:
[list=1]
Learn to read.
Read the Constitution.
Read the Founding Fathers.
And learn to use the quote function.
[/list=1]


Here's what I said:


Those who haven't served have no right to an opinion on the subject.


I'm fully aware that most Americans have a plethora of opinions on subjects about which they know little or nothing, and on subjects on which they have no RIGHT to have an opinion. The fact that you are a taxpaying American does not give you the right to have an opinion on any and every subject. And if you did not serve, you have no right to have an opinion on this subject. You haven't earned it.


And yes, I have a right to tell you you can't wear military insignia. There are laws against it in some places, and those laws do not infringe on your freedom of speech in any way that the Founding Fathers would have considered a violation of the Constitution. They did not intend, nor does the Constitution provide, that you or anyone else can do whatever you want whenever you want. They did not intend to found a nation of crybabies whose only concern is their "rights".




feedthehogs, I concur with your opinion on those who wish to talk guns! I never could understand why some folks wish to censor a discussion simply because they have no interest in it. :what:


As to your survey, I'm glad that your opinion is based on something other than 2 conversations in a gun store. :D I find it interesting, because my short tour of reserve time was in a Special Forces outfit. I was not a Beret, but there I was with Charlie Company of the 1st Bn, 11th SFG(A), out of Ft. MacAurthur CA. (Since decommissioned. Charlie company moved to what HAD been the Cerritos Naval Air Station.)

Except for a few legs like me, the men in that outfit were almost all Vietnam vets, and had been Special Forces in Nam. (Well, we did have one former Force Recon guy. An interesting critter indeed! Bad dude, nice guy.)

In addition to my experience with them, I've known a few former members of various elite units. Without exception, they resented and despised anyone who had not earned the badge going around wearing it.


Your sample is larger than mine, OTOH, yours was anonymous and mine is not. I know the men I served with are/were the real deal.

I think I'll ride with them. I know I have a low opinion of punks running around wearing an Expert's badge or an EIB. (Don't see that one too often, though.)

I don't really see this as being complicated. If you didn't earn it, you don't wear it.

Simple integrity.

[1911]

Quartos




You have made my job easy.

You stated and I quote. (And this is the way we use to use quotes back in the ole days before techno nerds)

“I'm fully aware that most Americans have a plethora of opinions on subjects about which they know little or nothing, and on subjects on which they have no RIGHT to have an opinion.”

I have no Right? What do you base that opinion on? (and I use the word opinion very loosely).

You are one of those that apparently fit into the category that has personal issues about yourself and your own personal accomplishments.


I am going to hold your feet to the fire.Where In the USA other than military bases are civilians NOT allowed to wear military insignia’s? Maybe the White House?Tell us where please because I want to find out first hand where it is illegal.

You may have very well served our country well.It is much appreciated.But that does not entitle you to tell me what I can wear or how I can dress. IF you choose to tell me how I can dress you will find out how patriotic I am about my freedom for which you say you fought so bravely for!

[ahadams]

uh 1911, it is a violation of the Uniform Code of Military Justice to impersonate an NonCommissioned, Warrant, or Commissioned Officer of the United States Military. This also carries over to the 10 USC something or the other (ask a military lawyer - mine's busy right now). Although it hasn't been enforced except in a few specific instances since the 1960's it is still the law of the land. In other words if you are wearing stripes or officers insignia for which you do not hold the appropriate NCO promotion orders or, or WO warrant, or Officer's commission, you are in fact in violation of the law. [and yes I'm aware they fiddled with the law a few years ago so that most warrant officers are also commissioned officers now which I thought was dumb, but they didn't ask me...]

If you aren't wearing stripes or officers insignia; and you aren't purporting yourself to be either an NCO or Officer; and as long as you aren't carry fake credentials for any of the above, you probably aren't in violation of the law. However you may be operating in what many of us veterans would consider ignorance and poor taste. Of course if ignorance and poor taste were a crime, Michael Moore would be doing 50 to life in the federal slammer, so barring the impersonation issues it is, as they say, a mostly free country.

[rock jock]

The fact that you are a taxpaying American does not give you the right to have an opinion on any and every subject.
With all due respect, that statement is positively laughable and absolutely contemptous of the 1st Amendment.

[1911]

"If you aren't wearing stripes or officers insignia; and you aren't purporting yourself to be either an NCO or Officer; and as long as you aren't carry fake credentials for any of the above, you probably aren't in violation of the law. "

Well said!

I thought the crack about violation of the law from Quartus was far fetched to say the least!

I where a confederate flag on my shirt from time to time,does this make me a racist?

[Quartus]

rock jock, 1911, et al, go read the First Amendment. Show me anywhere in there that says or implies that you have a right to an opinion on any and every subject.


It's true that the courts in this land have done great violence to the plain words and original intent of the FF, but I do not see any reason to allow them to form my thinking.


As for the legality of the matter (which is secondary to the moral issue), I haven't checked lately, but it used to be a Federal offense to wear military insignia except as part of a proper military uniform. I wouldn't be at all suprised if some revisionist judege has struck down that perfectly just and Constitutional law.


You no more have a right to wear military insignia that you haven't earned than illegal aliens have a right to welfare.


And those who do are on the same level.

Even if both are perfectly legal.

[1911]

“As for the legality of the matter (which is secondary to the moral issue), I haven't checked lately, but it used to be a Federal offense to wear military insignia except as part of a proper military uniform. I wouldn't be at all suprised if some revisionist judege has struck down that perfectly just and Constitutional law.”

Quartus,

Learn to use the spell checker! "suprised,judege"

The founding fathers saw to it that you can come on here and ramble about things that you obviously know nothing about.You still don’t have it right about the law.Your talking about a code of military justice.Its your “opinion” that citizens should not wear special ops t- shirts in public,not a law.

I think the founding fathers would roll over in their graves if they heard you say that I cannot have a “opinion on any” subject matter.That sounds more like something that belongs on a kindergarten playground.But thankfully the founding fathers had the wisdom and courage to make it possible for you to come on here and make your views known.Even if they are some what crazy.:neener:

[Ebbtide]

I am the "real deal". I don't wear anything I have not earned, but I'm a Vet. I am glad to see people (non-vets) wear military garb as it is a show of support, ambition, or idol worship (me).

Besides, I never would have known about SEALs, Delta Force, Airborne, etc if it were not for movies and wannabes.

Now, I don't much care for guys that wear it and claim they earned it. But I have never met any of them. But even then, I don't really care about some one else's lies.

[whoami]

Right now in my pocket I've got a lighter with the insignia of the USS Lassen, DDG-82 (currently my fave for the saying...From Courage, Life). I alternate between the Lassen, the Preble (DDG-88), and the Mason (87). I think I might have the Mustin somewhere as well.I also have caps for each, which I wear, and I have polo shirts for the Preble and the Lassen that I wear. I purchased these at emblematics sales, held by the sailors themselves as a fundraiser for their 'crews'.

If someone asks if I'm a member of the crew, I explain to them that I am a civilian contractor who works for a company that helps build, test, and integrate many of the systems that go on that ship, and I wear these emblems because I have an enormous amount of pride in the men and women who will use these tools to defend our nation and our freedoms. Funny, we've got a lot of Navy here where I work, and so far I've never heard a single instance of trouble over it. Heck, I've given/attended a couple of demos with admin types (up to rear Admiral) present, and they've not said a word. If they did, I would have removed it. Then again, my thought is that if they didn't approve of it, they wouldn't have emblematic sales in the first place.

You no more have a right to wear military insignia that you haven't earned than illegal aliens have a right to welfare.

Ok, next time you're down at the docks, YOU tell junior to hand over daddy's ship cap because he doesn't have the right to wear it.
:D

[Mike Irwin]

I guess since I never played professional baseball I don't have the "right" to have an opinion on my favorite team and its chances of making the playoffs?

Get real.

[Hkmp5sd]

I wear a great assortment of Dale Earnhardt T's and caps and drive like a maniac on the streets, yet NASCAR still won't let me on the racetrack. :)

[rock jock]

rock jock, 1911, et al, go read the First Amendment. Show me anywhere in there that says or implies that you have a right to an opinion on any and every subject.
Quartus,

There is a huge gap in your logic. If one doesn't have a right to form certain opinions, how can one possibly express such opinions? The 1A is very clear - every citizen has the right to maintain any point of view and express any opinion about any subject they care to, whether that opinion is based on factual information, personal experiences, blissninnie emotionalism, or what they read in pulp fiction. If you don't like their opinion, ignore or challenge it, just as I have done with your own misinformed view of the Constitution.

[Carlos Cabeza]

At first, reading this thread makes one think of t-shirts and baseball caps. I didn't realize someone could be so offended by an individual "showing support" for a group, agency, cause, team, etc. If we are talking about impersonating or portraying one's self to be an "original" , then there is a problem. My father was a navy whimp, do I have to give up my ballcap or shirt ? If I walked around telling women I was a SEAL, HANG ME ! Otherwise, I won't give up the respect I owe my father just because you don't like it and have an identity problem. My Grandfather fought in WWII, shall I throw away my patriotism for the few that think patriotism is only reserved for those that have served in our armed forces, HELL NO !. I would also like for someone to explain the use of the word "wannabe". I know people that have served yet have no more character or integrity than before they joined. They have plenty of arrogance, but very little intelligence.

[1911]

Last night I saw Dale JR on television proudly wearing a US MARINES jacket. Does this make him a Wanna be? Or does it make him a proud American that wants to show his support for his country?

SEE, there is a very clear line to me what separates a wannabe vs. a patriotic American. The patriotic American wears his shirt or ball cap with pride and when asked if he served he would say no and explain why. The wanna be would say “why do you ask?” or “I would tell you but then I would have to kill you”

I have known some real deals in my life and even call one of them a friend.I knew him 6 months before he told me what he was.He said real operators like to keep a low profile and never boast about their service. He was good at spotting people out in public who where or had been in spec ops.One night we where at a bar and he said that he thought the guy at one of the tables looked like an operator. He struck up a conversation and sure enough the guy turned out to be an ex DELTA.I asked how he knew and he said it was more the haircut and the way he carried himself. Also the way he was seated with his back up against the wall was a clue.

He has given me a couple of real deal shirts and said "wear them proudly!"

[XLMiguel]

There usta be a sporting goods store near an Irish pub (in McLean, VA, near Langley) I have been known to frequent that did the uniforms for CIA, FBI, INS softball teams, as well as for local high schools, companies, etc.. They also sold CIA, FBI, KGB, etc coffeee mugs, t-shirts, ball caps, etc. It is great fun to walk in the back door of a restraunt you're annoyed at with an INS cap on . . .

At some point, they quit selling FBI stuff at the agency's request, and with today's posture on national security, well, like I said, they aren't there anymore:confused:

But I digress.

[Matthew Courtney]

My late father left me his insignia ring. I wear it every memorial day to honor him and the men he served with. If anyone has a problem with that, well, that's their problem.

[Bruce H]

Be it resolved, with very few exceptions clothing should be manditory reguardless of type.:D

[p35]

The few Real Deals I have known never advertised the fact. I assume that anyone who tries to advertise a past in the Special Forces was really a Chairborne Ranger.

Having said that, I do have a cap from a submarine I took my kid on a tour of once. They had a little shop set up in a shipping container on the dock to raise money for the crew welfare fund. Thought the least I could do was spend some money there after they went to a lot of trouble to give us the tour.

[Betty]

Well....

There's being a proud American, and there's being a wannabe. If you're a proud American, that's great. If you're a wannabe, eventually you're going to "get made" by the real deal, and you're going to make yourself look really stupid.

I have grandpa's dogtags that I wear once in awhile. I also have his Air Force wings that his late sister made into a bracelet - those wings were given back to him when she died, and the wings were given to me. I wear that bracelet alot.

Grandpa was a career military man. He served in WWII, Viet Nam and Korea, and retired a Lt. Colonel. Though he flew in many planes over his career, what he loved most was being the navigator on a B17. Sometimes he would exaggerate his stories to make his grandchilden wide-eyed. He was a proud, independant man, and died a slow, humiliating death by ALS. He couldn't move or care for himself in his last days, and this was a man who traveled the world and saw the earth from above.

I was close to grandpa, and his death was a great loss. I wear his wings with pride.

I saw a familiar insignia in a display case the other day, and when I find a good plain baseball cap, I'm going to buy that patch and sew it on there. Anyone who thinks I don't have the right to wear it can visit Mt. Zion cemetary and tell that to grandpa.

http://www.angelfire.com/md2/patches/images5/var8afme3jg.jpg

[444]

Not an attack on anyone, but I have always believed that the people that are most worried about wannabes are worried about it because they are wannbes themselves.

[ahadams]

Hey Runt - don't ever think you aren't carrying forward your grandpa's tradition by standing up for our gun rights - that's one of the things he fought for, all those years ago!

p.s. my dad was a chaplain with an Army supply unit that was cut off in New Guinea and rescued by AAF P-38's flying three abreast that showed up and broke a japanese human wave attack that was about to overwhem them.

[tyme]

USC18 chapter 33 (http://www4.law.cornell.edu/uscode/18/pIch33.html)

I have no problem with bars and medals being off-limits, but some clever government lawyer might well argue that standard military camoflauge patterns are part of the military's "distinctive uniform" and thus subject to regulation under 18USC722. Hats have the same problem.

Of course, the flag burning measure declared unconstitutional by the USSC is part of that chapter, so take the constitutionality of everything in it with a grain of salt.

[1911]

Tyme,

I wonder what they would have to say about the F.B.I. shirts I see out there.

Female.Body.Inspector.


LOLOLOLOLOLO

[seeker_two]

After reading this thread, it's helped me to change my mind about wearing SF clothing...

Before, I wouldn't consider wearing anything w/ a military-type logo or design on it (not even any of those 7.62 Design shirts). To me, it was "If you didn't serve, it's impolite to wear." (Heck, the only CAMO clothing I own are a ball cap & a pair of gloves...:what: )

Now, I think that, as long as you're honest about your service (or lack of) and that you're wearing it proudly to support them, it's OK to wear it. I may even buy one now...

However, wearing an OFFICIAL military uniform if you haven't served IS WRONG & PROBABLY ILLEGAL.

Thanks for the new attitude. Now, which one to buy...
I like the 671 Grains of Diplomacy one... (http://www.actiongear.com/cgi-bin/tame.exe/agcatalog/results.tam?&query.ctx=7.62%20Design%20&exact.ctx=&query_option.ctx=by%20Keyword&siteID=0%2FrlkLatDR8-u6zsR%2FbSL3SnEo8%2A%2AoIi1g) :D

[1911]

seeker_2
Glad to here that we made a positive impact on somebody!

[buzz_knox]

However, wearing an OFFICIAL military uniform if you haven't served IS WRONG & PROBABLY ILLEGAL

Except that law, as written, is probably unconstitutional. It not only makes it illegal to wear a portion of the uniform (like BDU pants) even if there is no intent to deceive, but it also makes it illegal to wear anything which generally resembles the uniform. That means all the cops running around in military style BDUs are felons in the making. I seriously doubt that they have received permission from the United States gov't to wear BDUs.

[1911]

"That means all the cops running around in military style BDUs are felons in the making."

bdu's a felony?Now thats a laugh.

[Destructo6]

If you're looking for a cool military shirt to wear, might I suggest something from VX-30 Bloodhounds.

http://www.nawcwpns.navy.mil/~nwtspm/images/backgrnds/sqdlogo.jpg

T-shirts are sure to come out before long and the money typically goes into the squadron fund.

BTW, I'm conspiring to be evil since I'm currently wearing a US Border Patrol t-shirt that my best buddy gave me. I'd feel like a turd if I didn't wear it and "fly the colors" so to speak.

[1911]

Just curious,What is that unit?

[Destructo6]

It's Air Test and Evaluation Squadron Three Zero, formerly known as NAWC. They test missles, bombs, develop avionics software, etc. Since they're primarily involved in testing (experimentation), they get the 'X' in the squadron designation.

[Meplat]

If you don't have orders authorizing it, you have no right to wear it. Period. Those who haven't served have no right to an opinion on the subject.


Sheesh. Didn't realize our society had devolved to the point where anyone has no right to an opinion on any subject. DAMN that First Amendment!!!!

[Meplat]

With all due respect, that statement is positively laughable and absolutely contemptous of the 1st Amendment.

+100

[Meplat]

You no more have a right to wear military insignia that you haven't earned than illegal aliens have a right to welfare.

I don't have any argument with this. I have NO desire to wear insignia from a unit I didn't put my time in for. I have NO desire for anyone to mistake me for one who has given so much or worked so hard.

I DO, HOWEVER, take GREAT exception to ANYONE telling me I am not entitled to own and express ANY opinion about ANYTHING under the sun. Anyone saying that the First doesn't protect this has a SERIOUS reading problem.

[Kodiaz]

I think now would be the time for a very appropiate southern saying. I just hope no one beat me to it.



The EMPTY can rattles the most.

[bogie]

Bogie really, really doesn't like gun show commandos, Navy seels, and the rest of the ilk. I'll gladly help remove insigia... Then again, maybe the miscreants need it tattooed...

[Don Gwinn]

Meplat--check the date.

[STAGE 2]

Interesting topic... Here's my story. I have never served in the armed forces nor do I think I ever will. Granddad, however, had command of a destroyer in the european theater. As a result, Mom's side of the family was a Navy family... which meant that even though my Dad wasn't in any service, my family was still a Navy family.

Long story short, ever since I could remember up until the day he died, Granddad wore a simple blue hat with NAVY in bright gold letters, and his silver oak leaf pinned at the top. In a letter attached to his will he left some instructions about certian personal effects, and one of the things left to me was his hat.

On occasion I wear the hat, for both the respect and support I have for the Navy and for my extremely fond memories for my Granddad.

That said, there was one time where I was wearing the hat in public and some guy standing behind me in line asked me if I was in the Navy. I said no, and turned around assuming the conversation was over. He then turned irate, got on my face and started lecturing me about what kind of a puk I was for wearing insignia and the hat in general.

Needless to say things didn't improve from there, but the point of the whole thing is this. Before you bite someone's head off about wearing shirts or hats or even specific insignia, you might want to stop and think about why the person may be wearing it. Sure they may be a poser. But in todays world they may also very well be the brother/father/son/husband/wife/grandson/friend of someone who served/is serving.

[Hawkmoon]

Why would it bother you if an over weight school teacher is trying to show his respect for your hard work and dedication?

People have been wearing Us armed forces clothing for decades.Heck I even participate in re-enactments where I wear colonial and southern forces uniforms but that does not make me a solider or a wanna be.

A friend of mine was in service on the Jessie Brown and gave me a hat.He is very proud when I wear it out in public.Why is it that only the spec ops seem to have a problem with it?
It isn't only spec ops who have a problem.

To the overweight school teacher, wearing "colours" he didn't earn may seem like a show of respect, but to those who actually earned the right to wear those particular "colours," having them worn by an overweight school teacher who was never in the military is not a sign of respect, but a sign of disrespect. It's called a "uniform" for a reason. Those who belong to the unit wear the uniform of the unit. Those who don't (or didn't) belong to the unit have no right to wear the uniform. It's just that simple.

Me? I was 4th Infantry Division in Vietnam. Not Special Forces, not airborne, just a ground pounder. It doesn't bother me too much to see teenie boppers wearing camo BDU trousers, but it bothers me a lot to see some scraggly-faced geek who obviously was never in the service wearing a field jacket that still has "US ARMY" over the left breast pocket, and a unit patch (maybe my own Ivy Division patch, even) on the shoulder. He doesn't know what the patch stands for, he doesn't know where the Ivy Division has ever fought, or even that the patch with the ivy leaves represents the 4th Infantry.

Sorry. It's extremely disrespectful to wear "colours" you haven't earned.

[/rant]

[CAnnoneer]

People are free to make total asses out of themselves. Is there anything more ridiculous than some out-of-shape guy ambling about in full forest camo in the middle of a busy urban street?

That being said, they paid for the BDUs and thus are entitled to wear them. It is a freedom of expression issue, which every real soldier should cherish as part of the Constitution he is sworn to protect.

The only "military" thing I wear is black cotton pants - those things are comfortable, sturdy, low-key, multipocketed, and inexpensive. I have already worn out two pairs and bought another two pairs. I'd like to think the 35 dollars I spent on each pair have been put to good use by .gov.

Finally, this attitude of "if you are/were not in the military, shut your fat face!" is really starting to get bothersome. Last time I checked, we do not live in a Heinleinian militaristic fascist state. Any sociopath that would like to pull something like that should remember that there are many more armed civilians who are ready to bring/put him down, if it comes to that.

[Optical Serenity]

The only thing I can't figure out is why people wear POLICE or SWAT team shirts.

Nothing like putting a bulls eye on your back.

EXACTLY! Everytime I run into someone with a POLICE or SHERIFF shirt, I laugh and ask them if they are suicidal? They say its because I'm a Police Officer and therefor I just don't want them to wear it. I personally don't care whatsoever, but there is a reason I don't wear POLICE shirts when i'm off duty.

[odysseus]

Wow, old thread.

In the interest of its new lukewarm rebirth, I will add that I think it's fine to me on wearing the clothes (bdu's, boonie hats, etc) - and I don't see why certain tactical clothing should be any issue at all, but would not and would feel it odd to see someone wear badges not earned or unit emblems not associated with. Emblems and badges in general for civy's is an odd thing to be wearing to me.

One time I was wearing just simple camo pants and someone in a line at a food checkout was grilling me about them. Like you have to be military, leo, or actively going to a hunting trip, to wear camo patterns.:rolleyes: The irritation on my face I think ended the short lived conversation.

[tellner]

I get a lot of clothes out of the Sportsman's Guide. Some of it is military surplus or military make - BDU pants, old East German coats and cold weather pants, a French military duster. It's just cheap, sturdy, cloth. Can't see what the big deal is.

[el44vaquero]

I wanna be a Chairborne Ranger........livin' the life of stale popcorn and re-runs? :confused: :)

[Guy B. Meredith]

People should earn the right to wear special ops clothing. My wife is a massage practitioner but does not call herself a therapist as she feels that requires more training and the time spent developing the skills deserves respect. Same same.

[Meplat]

Meplat--check the date.


Okay. Tis an old thread. Twas an open one, though, and is now drawing interest again. Isn't that a good thing in a forum? :)

[Optical Serenity]

One time I was wearing just simple camo pants and someone in a line at a food checkout was grilling me about them. Like you have to be military, leo, or actively going to a hunting trip, to wear camo patterns.:rolleyes: The irritation on my face I think ended the short lived conversation.

People have nothing better to do... I get the same thing sometimes, and I ask people if some military group somewhere has a patent or something on woodlands camo?

[Derby FALs]

"Lighten up, Francis..."

:neener:

[Matthew748]

I really don’t care what people wear. They could parade around nude in the winter time or in parkas and fur coats during the summer for all I care. Ball teams and pop bands like it when people wear clothing displaying their logos and names because it is a source of free advertising. Since the military is trying to market themselves more aggressively, I would think that they would approve of ordinary Joes and Janes wearing pro-military clothing.

For myself, the only military type clothing I have and wear are a few coats and winter jackets that I picked up when the iron curtain rusted and the communists went bankrupt. I bought them because they were cheap, good quality, and nondescript in appearance.

[oh blanky]

[QUOTE=Quartus]If you don't have orders authorizing it, you have no right to wear it. Period. Those who haven't served have no right to an opinion on the subject.QUOTE]

Which military were you receiving orders from, Stalin's?

[dfaugh]

I have a few items that I wear, including a "Special Forces/De Oppresso Liber" ball cap, and a couple "generic" Force Recon, Marines and other T-shirts. Also a beltbuckle ("Death on a Wire")that my cousin gave me, from his helicopter unit from Vietnam, I wear them to show support and respect for my family and friends that served in the military (I couldn't for health reasons)....

And, all the family and friends (starting w/ WWII vets, including my deceased father and uncle), and others who have fought all over the globe, would defend my right to wear them...And probably laugh at any one who got their panties all bunched up BECAUSE I was wearing them...

[goalie]

By being part of an elite group it lets them stand apart from an otherwise normal or run of the mill life.

While I'm proud of what I've done in the past, I don't care about who wears what. That part of my life is gone by and I'm to busy livin to give a crap.

+1

[progunner1957]

Chelsea was a nymphomaniac? Why not? her Dad is:D :D

[Old Dog]

Of course, I am always amused whenever I happen to see photos or video of Michael Jackson, wearing a colorful red or blue tunic with huge gold epaulets -- and actual medals on his left breast -- looking as though he fancies himself a Royal Navy admiral, circa 18th century ...

And everyone in the Navy knows the only way you can detect a authentic SEAL is that he's usually the worst-dressed guy in the bar, typically wearing flip-flops or sandals, no socks, baggy shorts, sweatshirt or an old t-shirt (with the name of beer brewer printed on it) and sporting a big black plastic watch.

I don't care who wears what in public ... in the military, nothing wrong with wearing unit/command logo t-shirts or sweats and displaying pride in your unit, no problem with giving the stuff away or selling it for family or civilians to wear, either. I don't think civilians wearing this stuff is disrespect.

Anyway, I've never seen ex-military folks (whom I knew) who've been there, done that, that ever wore anything in public proclaiming their status as a specwar or combat veteran. Well, except maybe a deployment t-shirt ("OIF 2004" or "Med Cruise 1996") to the base gym ...

[rcellis]

Some years ago I got fed up with pro football and as my favorite local university (Kansas) didn't actually play football, though they pretended to (that's changed recently, thank God) I started following the AFA..

A year or so later I and my family were passing through Colorado Springs, and decided to visit the place. I've got two bright aggressive daughters who just might go there.

Anyway, at the gift shop I saw a ball cap with the academy crest and couldn't resist...

...and then never felt comfortable wearing it. I'm not an Air Force guy.

Pity, but unless you attend an academy, it's effectively impossible to wear any of the 'fan' stuff. You always end up saying too much.

Clint

[bg]

Boy I sure wish I'd see more people wearing NRA caps....

[KriegHund]

The army gives out shirts.

I once thought about offending someone by wearing BDU's (im wearing marine digi pants right now) and i decided that thats too bad. I have a lot of respect for them, and if a service member ever says anything, i will shrug and say that "They are comfortable and tough clothes. Im not wearing them to insult you, or to seem cool. i just like the clothes"

You know, one of my BDU shirts has "US ARMY" on it.

On the shoulder there is a patch with a long triangle, circle in it, and star under that. Anyone know what its for?

[.40-.45]

after all this banter about a t-shirt

I'm not sure if I should wear my Cubs Hat anymore I mean Ron Santo my get upset that I haven't done the time in spring training

come on people

My brother-in-law is in the corps (recon) and has given my sons and Myself many items over the years, not a big deal we are very proud of him and all the guys in the corps and we will continue to promote the USMC. DO we go around Screaming Semper FI all the time of course not!!!

Thank you very much to all who have, are, or will serve our great country!!!!!!


.40-.45
.02

[Spec ops Grunt]

*looks at my username*

It's from Halo.


On topic: I'm also tired of fakers. There is this kid at school that always claims his parents are:

A. CIA operatives
B. Special Forces
C. Prison Guards
D. Retired

He also talks about his father's 40mm handgun. :rolleyes:

[Ares45]

Wearing spec ops clothing in public?

What could be the reason for them disliking people wearing these clothes

Simple. You don't earn it, you don't wear it.

My mother tried to dress me up in my father's US Army Drill Instructor cover for halloween one time when I was a kid. Almost 20 years out of the service and the old man went ballistic. It's not just a ball cap or a t-shirt.

[tellner]

Chelsea was a nymphomaniac?
Why not? her Dad is:D :D

I love it. Beating up on innocent girls to score cheap political shots. Tells me everything I ever needed to know about True Believing Republicans. It might be different if she had been convicted of drug crimes like others I could mention.

[DRZinn]

There's a big difference between wearing a uniform and wearing various assorted pieces of military clothing, gear, or insignia that may or may not be part of a uniform.

To me there's an obvious line: If you (who haven't served) want to wear a Marine dress blue blouse, it will annoy me. If you put an EGA on a leather jacket, it will annoy me. If you put an EGA on a dress blue jacket and have the audacity to wear that, we'll have some problems.

[Jeff White]

I served in the US Army from 6 Dec 74 till 1 Nov 03. I haven't put on my uniform since I retired in November of 2003. I have worn BDU pants on the range and on some work assignments. (I'm currently a police officer).

Army regulation 670-1 covers wear of the uniform. Civilians can legally wear BDUs or other uniforms as long as they remove any distinctive items. Distinctive items include buttons on the dress uniform, the US ARMY patch over the left pocket, shoulder sleeve insignia (unit patches), distinctive unit insignia (unit crests), rank insignia, decorations, skill badges and headgear.

Now I doubt you'll ever get a US Attorney to prosecute anyone for this, unless they are pulling a scam and defrauding someone or wearing the MOH, but it is a violation of federal law.

I see no problem with someone wearing a t-shirt or sweatshirt with a unit insignia or motto on it, heck, my wife and kids have a pretty large collection of those.

I do have a problem with people (military or civilian) wearing enough parts of the uniform that they look like they are trying to impersonate soldiers. I have been know to approach those people and ask them for their military ID. If they produce one, I contact their 1SG, if they can't I remind them of the federal law about unauthorized wear of the uniform. There is just something wrong about someone with hair halfway to their shoulders, a three day growth of beard, and their hands in their pockets, walking around in full BDUs with patches on them and muddy boots and an open jacket.

I doesn't take any time at all to remove the patches from a BDU jacket if you want to wear one.

Jeff

[solareclipse]

I don't wear insignia clothing because i see no need for it and am aware of some of the implications that result from such acts, but many people just done on a piece of clothing oblivious as to what anything on it may mean.

Swat or nike is the same for many. It's just something you wear. Or so they say the few times the matter has been raised while i've been around.

[c_yeager]

I think there is a pretty clear line between people who wear casual military related clothing to show support for an organization and people who actively pretend to be a member of that organization.

I've met a handfull of genuine member of elite military units, and not a one of them seemed to give two shakes about some soccer mom wearing a NAVY hat. On the other hand I have met a handfull of complete and totaly FAKE members of elite units who would have a fit about such a thing as it "disgraced their honor".

I guess there are just bigger things to worry about.

[River Wraith]

I don't know how to show my appreciation for those badasses. I pretty much don't wear their clothing because I haven't earned it. I never aspired to be a SEAL or Spec Ops guy until it was way to late. By the time I got my head out of my ass and stopped chasing a good time I was over 30. I have immense respect for these people, but I wouldn't wear their clothing because I don't deserve to wear it. I haven't earned the right.

[MrTwigg]

Don't wear it. Active duty, retired, or civilian. I won't even wear military camo patterns. If I wear camo it's a hunting pattern. I did wear my utility greens until I wore them out after I got out of the Seabees.

[WvaBill]

I didn't think the entire army should have been alllowed to wear the black berets.

[Don Gwinn]

On the shoulder there is a patch with a long triangle, circle in it, and star under that. Anyone know what its for?
That's either "Silent Killing Instructor" or "Latrine Sanitation Diver, 2nd Class."
What color is the star?
:D

[carebear]

There's a big difference between wearing a uniform and wearing various assorted pieces of military clothing, gear, or insignia that may or may not be part of a uniform.

To me there's an obvious line: If you (who haven't served) want to wear a Marine dress blue blouse, it will annoy me. If you put an EGA on a leather jacket, it will annoy me. If you put an EGA on a dress blue jacket and have the audacity to wear that, we'll have some problems.

Doc,

You forgot to mention the "hot stripper exception". :evil:

[TOADMAN]

At home late on a Saturday night - once in a blue or no moon - I'll wear nothing but an old H-harness equipped with several 30 round M-16 magazine pouches full of chem lights and a canteen full of cheap red wine - then when the timing is just right - I'll attack the old lady.

[Kodiaz]

Hey leave Chelsea alone she was on the news the other day, she's hot:evil: :evil:


My brother in law sends me navy stuff every chance he gets.


One of the last ones was a SWCC shirt with a rat running a ma deuce on a little boat. He sent it because I dragged him over every patch of shallow water I could find in my old boat I had him terrified. Nothing like blasting through everglades sawgrass channels in a little boat to scare the pants off of a big boat sailor. I also made another big boat Navy guy puke on my boat. I'll leave that one for another time. I will say he was never in the ocean in a 16 ft. Aluminum vee hull before.

[NAMDOC]

re wearing military uniforms as a civilian...

...While during Annual Training at Camp Roberts, there was a large crowd of us milling around a convenience store, buying pogey bait, etc.

Amongst us was a tall guy in BDU's, wearing a boonie hat of all things, he was missing patches and rank, holding an M16. I asked him about his rank and his story was garbled; I asked him about his uniform and his story was garbled; I asked him for an ID and his story was garbled...

...so I brought him to the attention of some MP's who happened to be in the vic and while watching from a distance, I saw them take him away, in cuffs.

It was probably an AR....not an M16...

You wonder what drives these guys...

Paul
CA ARNG (Med PSG)
RVN/25th & 101st
Eagle Dustoff

[goalie]

On the other hand I have met a handfull of complete and totaly FAKE members of elite units who would have a fit about such a thing as it "disgraced their honor".

I guess there are just bigger things to worry about.

Another +1

[NAMDOC]

...this sort of thing is one step closer to those who claim they are vets...

...the guy who told me he used to haul around "...sixty cal..." or the medic who told me he was assigned to "...hew...".. it took me weeks to figure out he had seen 'Hue' ("Way") on a map and decided that's what he was going to tell people...

...here in sew kal it is not unusual to see kids/street wierdos with army clothing on, still having patches, etc. but since most of them don't have a clue and it is just a fad to them, I don't waste my breath...

Paul
RVN 70/71

[DRZinn]

the "hot stripper exception"To the first two, but not the third. Unless it's a private show.

Then again, I always wanted a WM. Almost had two. A corporal and a captain.

[USMCRotrHed]

I think the Special Forces have a special problem, in that there are many who claim to have been in SpecFor in one guise or another, but are really fakers.

I haven't come across many who falsely claim service in the Armed Forces in general, but I've certainly seen more than my fair share of those who claim to have been Rangers, or SEALs, or Airborne. If one looks at the percentages, rather less than 5% of the armed forces come anywhere near a SpecFor qualification, but of those who publicly boast about having served in the military, in my experience, something over 50% claim to have been in SpecFor! Something not quite right here... For a graphic example, try visiting the Vietnam Memorial in Washington D.C. and check out the number of guys in uniform, wearing medals, who walk around approaching visitors and telling them all about their deeds of derring-do. (Perhaps that last should be derring-do-do! :fire: )



When I was on active duty....more than once, I would be sitting at my favorite bar and someguy would come up and ask if I was in the military (the haircut gave it away). I would say Marines! He would then say "I was in the Marines in Viet Nam, 101st Airborne!" It's usually pretty easy to spot the posers if you know what to look and listen for.

Even though I was in the Marines, I would never wear a Recon shirt, or even a shirt that implied I was a grunt because I didn't earn those honors. I was in the airwing and that is what I advertise when I wear anything military related. Simply because that is what I earned. I don't want to have the conversation that goes: "Were you in Recon?" "No, I just bought the T-shirt, I was actually just a helicopter mechanic." I'd rather just talk about helicopters and airplanes instead of have someone think I was on the ground doing the real work. I don't want to be labeled a poser like those guys in the bar.

[strambo]

I don't even have a T-shirt with the cool guy Tab I earned on it. If some poser wants to wear it instead, more power to 'em. I'm too busy to mess with that nonsense. Now if some poser were a co-worker and was constantly annoying me with fictional derring-do....well, I'm pretty patient, but I'd have to shut him up eventually just for peace and quiet.

[Berek]

Yellow ribbons, American flags, and a camo-print bandanna for me. I respect their right to wear what they want, but I don't do it.

+1. I might also wear a POW shirt to show they are remembered or a USMC shirt to show my support as I did try, got through 2nd phase and into 3rd before falling from a repelling tower. Other than that, I wear "generic" support shirts like one shirt that has the American flag, yellow ribbon and the words "I support our troops." Stuff like that.

I feel that, if you didn't serve on the ship or earn the ribbon or weren't in such 'n such battle, don't wear something that could be construed as you had. In my opinion, that's disrespect. I've had friends send me hats from the ships they've been on, but I have a collection of "display" hats that I never wear and each one has a notation of who sent it and when.

Just my $0.02 worth...

[tellner]

At home late on a Saturday night - once in a blue or no moon - I'll wear nothing but an old H-harness equipped with several 30 round M-16 magazine pouches full of chem lights and a canteen full of cheap red wine - then when the timing is just right - I'll attack the old lady.

Way too much information :p

[hso]

If I didn't earn it, I won't wear it.

[cz75bdneos22]

it's a t-shirt + a label.
if you don't like me wearing it. get over it.
all this stuff about not earning it...well...:banghead:
i am wearing a Colt insignia on my cap. i don't work for Colt.
My shirt has a Nike swoosh and logo prominently displayed on it. I don't own Nike shoes.
My briefs are by Hanes. i don't have stocks in Hanes wear.
I just bought OD jungle boots w/speedlace system. I am not in the Armed Forces. It's called marketing and that's why they are available to the general public. It's got nothing to do with whether you served or not. Those that have/are serving in the Special Forces don't need no stinking t-shirt!! Their Badge of Honor is earned on the field. May our Armed Forces brothers return to us alive, soon.

[CAS700850]

I think it is entirely different to wear clothing in support versus being a "poser" and claiming to be something you never were. I mean, I have been given many military items as a gift, a thank you for something I may have done to help someone out. The same goes for several hats and t-shirts I've gotten from law enforcement agencies and SWAT teams. And I wear those with pride. However, I have never claimed to work for any of these teams or units. I know my friends and acquaintances would never have a problem with me wearing the items in this way.

[Zero_DgZ]

And here I thought this thread was intended to take an entirely different tack.

Why yes, I wear marine pixel camo (Marpat) all the time. It's my favorite pattern. I also routinely wear a cheapo mall ninja tactical vest to hold all my junk when I'm shooting, cycling, and filming.

I once had a Marine in a gun store ask me, "Hey, where did you get that shirt?"

I don't wear any of that faux military insignia stuff. I was never in the service (does the ponytail give it away?) and I don't have any plans to pretend that I was or that I know anything about it.

[ID_shooting]

Wow, how does an off toic thread make it to this many pages, LOL

I severed my time and earned the right to wear my insigia. I only kept one BDU blouse intact, BRO patch, rank and tapes, I only wear it on November 11th. But I do carry 2nd BDE BRO coin in my pocket (I was in DISCOM most of the time I was there). Heck, I don't even wear a Cheju Do patch, but I could.

I have no problem if my wife, my daughter, or any other family member wore anything of mine. I will not however, loan stuff to my friends to wear.

I don't mind if civs wear t-shirts or hats, as long as they are not actual uniform items.

[Jeff White]

Zero_DgZ said,

Why yes, I wear marine pixel camo (Marpat) all the time. It's my favorite pattern.

This directly contradicts this:

I don't wear any of that faux military insignia stuff.

If you're wearing MARPAT, you are wearing insignia. The EGA is part of the print. It's my understanding the EGA was added to the pattern to make it unique to the USMC.

I once had a Marine in a gun store ask me, "Hey, where did you get that shirt?"

MARPAT was probably the hottest item for airsofters and collectors to aquire when it first came out. I wouldn't have been all that surprised to find an upset Marine wondering why a civilian had the latest uniform and he was on waiting list.

Jeff

[Zero_DgZ]

I'd dispute the 'insigina' thing. I'm wearing camos. Insignia to me means pins, rank stripes, or something with a logo on it.

I wear mil-style clothing (I like BDU's - cheap, camo, can't bust 'em). I suppose I should mention that they aren't real Marpat. They're a similar design and coloration, but the Marines don't let just any schmuck use their pattern. It's actually rather proprietary.

Don't ask me why. Unless you hold them side by side you'd have to be a real geek to know the difference.

What I meant is I don't wear the SEAL caps or fake pins or bars and stripes or any of that nonsense. Heck, I don't even have my name embroidered on the lapel of my BDU jacket.

I see an awful lot of guys wearing 'Vietnam Vet' hats around, with embroidered symbols of a military nature all over them. Lots of them are around my age (middle 20ish). Sort of makes you wonder, you know?

[Art Eatman]

About as close as I get is that I'm still trying to wear out some of the WW II khakis that I inherited from my father...

Anybody want a WW II officer's Class A uniform?

:), Art

[DRZinn]

Anybody want a WW II officer's Class A uniform?Send it on over!

I know, just joking, but it ain't right to get my hopes up like that...

[UWstudent]

i have a blackwater shirt.. but i've never worked for them. i got it when i bought a blackwater sig226.

am i supposed to throw the shirt away or something?

[XLMiguel]

I have all kinds of interesting T-shirts, gym shorts, ball caps, sweats, etc., from family, friends, ineresting folks, units, and organizations I have worked for/with, etc, Some are maybe even unique and valuable. I wear them with pride, solidarity, & support, & sometimes just 'cause they're cool. No one would mistake me for a SEAL (walrus, maybe), or Shelby Cobra owner (BMW bigot that I am), or lots of other things I have on T-shirts. (I have some really silly T-shirts-)

Misrepresentation, i.e. wearing a uniform, rank, or decoration one is not entitled to is one thing, T-shirts are another. Ya'know'hutImean?

[carebear]

To the first two, but not the third. Unless it's a private show.

Then again, I always wanted a WM. Almost had two. A corporal and a captain.

There was this girl in a joint out by the airport in Portland, fully decked out Corporal's blouse, stole it from her ex-...... she could work under me anytime. :evil:

As for WM's? 3, all NCO's, all hot. Kinda made up for never going to war. ;)

[p35]

My favorite raincoat is Flectar pattern Bundeswehr surplus Gore-Tex, c/w German flags on the shoulders. I don't claim that I ever served in the Bundeswehr, just that I like the jacket. If I'm not claiming credit for something I didn't do, where's the harm?

[KriegHund]

That's either "Silent Killing Instructor" or "Latrine Sanitation Diver, 2nd Class."
What color is the star?
:D

Black. Im gonna assume its the second one... :)


If you're wearing MARPAT, you are wearing insignia. The EGA is part of the print. It's my understanding the EGA was added to the pattern to make it unique to the USMC.

Actually AFAIK all the marine digital (Marpat?) that ive seen is just civvie reproduction stuff- thus it does not have the little marines logo on it. Same with the army digital.
Same with my DCU and snow camo, though not with the woodland one. Or the flectar(n?)

[DRZinn]

As for WM's? 3, all NCO's, all hot.35508

[carebear]

35508

With great power comes great responsibility. I've sworn to use these powers only for good. :evil:

[strambo]

A lot of people have brought up wearing "Blackwater", "Colt" and other private company logo'd items as being similar because they don't work for them. This is a completely false comparison. Companies advertise and they want their logo and brand as visible as possible. They love to have people pay (for a T-shirt/hat) just to be a walking commercial.

Military logos OTOH serve no commercial purpose for the military units....the company who made the T-shirt makes $$. You don't "earn" the right to advertise for a company, you "earn" the right to wear military insignia. Do what you want, and getting Military names and units on clothing may help recruiting, but it isn't the same as an HK ball cap. As for the posers, just join up and don't quit, it isn't rocket science all you gotta do is "suck it up" and get through the training. Then you can wear it proudly. I know I'm quite proud of my "DELTA-NINJA-DEATHWARRIOR" blue falcon and crossed AR insignia.:D

P.S. I think desert Marpat is the best desert pattern I've seen. I wouldn't wear it because I'm in another service, but if I were a civilian, I'd see no problem with wearing a civilian copy (without embedded EGA) or the 5.11 look alike. Getting wrapped up about someone wearing a camo pattern is a lot bigger waste of time than worrying about the insignias (still a waste of time).

[pete f]

My son has a "starter" jacket that has Navy hockey on it, as a friends son play at the academy and gave my much younger son the jacket as a gift.

I have a few pairs of BDU's and a M65 camo field jacket, no patches no flags, just camo in bag in the car, spare clothes.

To me the issue is like a letter jacket. I have a couple of jackets that are probablly the same jackets as one might find made into letter jackets but mine are bare. If i added on Letters and badges acting like had played football at Notre Dame or USC, that would be lying. I have no problem wearing a generic University of Minnesota sweatshirt, but I will not wear one that would make it seem like i had played there.


I too have run into several guys who have played the "if I told you what I did,I would have to kill you" routine. One worked for me, two years younger than me and he was talking about spending months in "indian county" in Viet Nam. Now considering that my older brother missed his wonderful chance to serve his country over there by a few months, I know someone a couple years younger than I would have been 12 when he joined up. I took him aside and asked him to stop telling lies to the younger guys and he was adamant that he was there. When I explained how I knew he was lying, he quit.

Most guys who were seriously SF or otherwise trained, rarely if ever talked about it in my experience. most just acted real quiet about it.

I had one customer who was pre SEALS and had a little display that showed his UDT dive knife and some pics, turned out to be very talkative about everything but his actions in combat. shipboard life, R and R in austrailia, post VJ day japan, would talk about it for hours, one question about swimming in on a beach and he would change the subject or get a beer, he seems to be the most typical example of the guys who really did it.

[Optical Serenity]

Am I the only one that thinks Marpat looks goofy to wear on a day to day basis?

[c_yeager]

A lot of people have brought up wearing "Blackwater", "Colt" and other private company logo'd items as being similar because they don't work for them. This is a completely false comparison. Companies advertise and they want their logo and brand as visible as possible. They love to have people pay (for a T-shirt/hat) just to be a walking commercial.

When was the last time that you saw a commercial for Blackwater, or even Colt for that matter. Now, when was the last time you saw a commercial for the military? The US military advertising budjet simply dwarfs everyone else that has been mentioned, they even had a spot during the superbowl if I remember correctly.

[Robert Hairless]

Is it okay to wear a police uniform and shield to show you support the cops?

[nyresq]

Is it okay to wear a police uniform and shield to show you support the cops?

A t-shirt is different then a uniform shirt with a badge.... I think the people wearing the FDNY and NYPD shirts and the ball players wearing the hats after 9/11 was one of the best things I had ever seen to show their support.

A guy wearing a Blue and Gold UDT/SEAL T-shirt is different then someone wearing a BDU shirt with name rank and service tabs with unit patches on the shoulders.
Looking back I think the original complaint of this thread was dealing with people wearing T-shirts and clothing of the more generic type and not unit specific uniform type.

I would never wear a dress uniform from the military as I didn't serve, but a T-shirt with ARMY across the chest shouldn't bother anyone. If you have a problem with that, then call the recruiters and tell them to stop giving them away to anyone who sends in the intrest card for a free T-shirt.....:rolleyes: