[Greybeard]

If your tube is not on just now (5:25 Central), you might want to do it. CENTCOM dragging journalists out of bed for "good news" briefing ...

[Blackhawk]

Standing by....

[El Tejon]

Nothing on BBC, CNN, PMSNBC or FNC. Where are you, Grey?

[Airwolf]

It's 2:30 am over there. They are dragging people out of bed to get there.

Somethings up.

[Pendragon]

Maybe the found Saddams head :what:

:neener:

:evil:

[Blackhawk]

Fox News has a major focus on the upcoming briefing....

[El Tejon]

Yikes, see it promo'd on FNC. Something heavy?

[Greybeard]

I'm on Fox and it's still "expected shortly". Saw over at Free Republic someone else had given a "3 minute warning" - 20 minutes ago!

[Airwolf]

Report from FNC reporter that "CENTCOM staff are grinning ear-to-ear".

Standing by....

[Airwolf]

POW rescued. Details to follow...

[Blackhawk]

Shepard Smith just said that Fox knows what the "extremely good news is," but agreed not to reveal it before the CENTCOM briefing. He said a US POW has been rescued is the headline. Details to come....

[spacemanspiff]

great! now lets get the other six, IMMEDIATELY!

[Greybeard]

Sounds like AP let the cat out of the bag early. Sorta found it classy of Rummy when on live and told 'em to wait on CENTCOM.

In other news ... Top of the second. Runners on first and third. Nobody out. #3 hitter coming to the plate ...

[Blackhawk]

On now....

POW rescued.

No details. Took no questions.

End of briefing.

[Airwolf]

FNC is claiming that the ground offensive on Baghdad has begun.

Major bombing in the city right now.

Confirmed POW rescued. Details will come later.

[Ol' Badger]

They got the chick back! Great :D

[Thumper]

Different chick...one of the missing. Jessica Lynch.

WOOHOO!!

:D :D

[Marko Kloos]

19-year old PFC Jessica Lynch with 507th Maintenance has been rescued. Good show, Marines.

[Bulldozer]

Now that is some great news -- best I've heard all week. Bravo men of the corps!!!!

[El Tejon]

Marines? Go Navy!:D (Sorry, lend, can't help myself; wasn't it an ST gig?).

Thank God she's back. It just broke me to pieces when I saw her photos. Good news for West Virginia and all of us.

[Greg L]

Great news.

CENTCOM dragging journalists out of bed for "good news" briefing ...

Actually anytime that a journalist gets inconvienced qualifies as "good news" in my book. :D

Greg

[Nightfall]

Apparently it was a joint operation between Army Rangers and Navy SEALs, according to FNC.

Holy crap, I wouldn't want to be on the receiving end of THAT! :D

[Butch]

Not too many details yet but fox is saying a female POW has just been rescued!:D :D :D :D

[JoeSF]

Yes, Jessica Lynch

[El Tejon]

Oops, the Ingerish are saying just STs. Well, I hear what I want to maybe?:D

BZ to those Danger Rangers as well.

[Frohickey]

Is Jessica Lynch the white soldier or the black soldier? You can bet that Jesse Jackson and Al Sharpton will be out with their rent-a-mobs if Jessica Lynch is white.

[Zander]

What great news!

Sometimes I'm really happy about my tax "contributions"...

[Marko Kloos]

Is Jessica Lynch the white soldier or the black soldier?

She's as white as it gets...19-year-old country girl from West Virginia.

http://www.frontiernet.net/~lendringser/images/lynch.jpg

[LawDog]

Duplicate threads merged.

LawDog

[Pendragon]

Words fail me.

We are the best fighting force the world has ever seen, and we send many people in to harms way to rescue a 19 year woman soldier.

The greatest might eclipsed by the greatest love.

Let the whole world see what they mean by "Semper fi".

[DeltaElite]

Hot Damn.

Welcome Home Jessica. :D

[cuchulainn]

http://www.gamers-forums.com/smilies/ups/kamikaze/smilie_groupflip2.gif

[D_Burchfield]

This is great news!

Hope the reporters covering CENTCOM weren't too far "embedded.":D Now for the other six!!

[spacemanspiff]

http://www.thesun.co.uk/article/0,,2-2003132548,00.html

the above link has another pic of her. i don't even want to think about how weird it would be to have every news report saying you are 'feared to be among the dead'. her family must be the happiest one on the planet right now.

[Feanaro]

She is one lucky woman and I am glad she made it.

[444]

Thank God. I had tears in my eyes when I heard the news.

[citizen]

Me too, 444.

Was cruisin' the FALFILES when the news broke; turned on the tv.

Sounds like the beginnings for PARTY TIME USA!!!!!!!!:D
We just need now to bring 'em ALL home for that!

(Somethin' tells me W. Virginia will be up REAL late tonite!)

[cool45auto]

Our people kick butt, makes you feel good!:D

[Mike Irwin]

By special forces?

I'm amazed.

Looks like the Army, contrary to opinions espoused a couple of days ago, didn't forget about Pvt. Jessica Lynch.

[agricola]

you have to say well done to the special forces for this one:

http://www.reuters.com/newsArticle.jhtml;jsessionid=545IHPJ2YKIZWCRBAEKSFEY?type=focusIraqNews&storyID=2491640

[agricola]

lol jinx

[Mike Irwin]

Good lord, Agricola, you and I were posting at the exact same time! :)

[Tamara]

Duplicate duplicate threads threads merged merged. ;)

[agricola]

you are under a jinx! no more speaking until someone says your FULL name ;) :D

[Mike Irwin]

Well, you posted the link so technically you win.

[Greybeard]

It was great to see her smile and bright eyes in video in this morning's briefing! :) :) :) In subsequent live interview with her Dad, he indicated not knowledgable of her injuries, which Fox is reporting as broken limbs and gunshot wounds. :confused:

[Leatherneck]

This was a bright spot indeed. Good show, SEALS! (El Tejon, I think the Marines conducted a diversionary op to cover the rescue.)

On a more somber note, I've got a lot of sympathy this morning for the families of the other prisoners, who most likely did not survive, apparently. :mad:

TC
TFL Survivor

[Thumper]

Leatherneck... Semper Fi and all that, but don't forget "Rangers and other unnamed Special Forces elements" (spelled Delta) were also involved.

Go Army.

Nice job all around.

[M1911]

I heard about it late last night, and immediately said a prayer of thanks.

[dev_null]

I read on another forum that she has multiple gunshot wounds, two broken legs and a broken arm, and that she was the only one of the POWs in that group that was alive. If those wounds were sustained after the initial ambush, I hope those bastards pay dearly. :fire:

-0-

[Chainsaw]

I am very happy to hear of this young lady being rescued. It does raise other questions as far as I'm concerned.

I received this in this mornings email. The email addresses some of the concerns. I agree with a lot of what the emailer indicated;

<I read where she's 19, left a 15% unemployment rate in West Virginia in order to get money for college so she could be a teacher. For years I've said this "service for college" bull**** was going to backfire in a serious way. There are many ways to serve your country...but anyone who can't put down the wrench or calculator and pick up an M4 and kill everything in sight don't belong in a combat zone...or anywhere close to one. I ain't being a smartass but she wanted an education and I bet she got an education. I ain't saying it's her own fault and I'm glad she got rescued but I bet there's a reason why she was the only one left alive. She should've never been allowed in a combat zone...especially in a Muslim country where she's already dirt because she's a woman, and even lower than that cause she's a white western American.> end of email

Meanwhile back at the bunker, Saddam is now disguised as a pooltable as Tommy Franks prepares to rack up his balls.-----Chainsaw

[Sean Smith]

Call me crazy, but I don't question the motives of people who take multiple gunshot wounds, and have 3 out of 4 of their limbs broken, while in uniform. If a man had that happen to him, everyone would be calling him a hero without any of that conditional bull :cuss: about her just being some chick who wanted to get a free ride to college from Uncle Sam. Some free ride!

:rolleyes:

[riverdog]

What Sean Smith said ...

[TallPine]

Chainsaw: you or I don't know anything about the detailed circumstances of her capture, or her conduct under fire or as a POW. Many a young man signs up for an opportunity to get out of a poverty situation. I don't think it is right to impugn this young soldier in any way.

As for her being the only survivor, it sounds like they got to her just in time. Sad about the others, including IRRC some other women soldiers.

As for the Iraqi captors, I'm sure that they will be taken care of by the local Marine justice court, Seargent Roy Bean presiding.

[Chainsaw]

Sean Smith, riverdog, and Tall Pine. I am completely on the side of this young lady. What I'd like to know is why someone that wants to be a teacher, signs up to be a soldier? To me this is some overselling by the recruiters, some bad policy among the defense department, and terrible legislation in congress.

Though it was still up to her, I can't believe she could forsee ever serving in a combat zone.

That said, I am still very happy to hear of her rescue.

A billion here, a billion there, sooner or later it adds up to some serious money--Everett Dirksen

[Mike Irwin]

"What I'd like to know is why
someone that wants to be a teacher, signs up to be a soldier?"

It's called the GI Bill. It provides for educational benefits that can, depending on the college, more than cover the cost of an education.

I have quite a few friends who came out of high school and did military service so they could go to college.

Quite frankly, for many people in this country, the only way of REALISTICALLY affording college is via military service.

You should read a little of the history on the GI Bill of Rights to see why it was enacted and why it was perhaps the single best piece of legislation that FDR ever signed.

[Baba Louie]

And I would hope and pray that she does receive an education courtesy of Uncle Sam, becomes a teacher and actually helps educate some people's kids, either in the classroom or via her committment to a nation.

Several of my teachers back in the 60's/70's were men who used the GI Bill to their and my advantage. They had a lot to offer, they'd been there, they'd done that and I'm a better Baba Louie because of them.

Don't know about you Chainsaw, but I'd kinda like my kids or grandkids to be taught by the selfsame Ms. Lynch or any of her compadres who've actually put their butt on the line for this nation. She's earned the right to do what she darned well pleases.

Just hope she comes out of this OK and reasonably sane.

The payback...

Adios

[Chainsaw]

Mike wrote; "You should read a little of the history on the GI Bill of Rights to see why it was enacted and why it was perhaps the single best piece of legislation that FDR ever signed."

It is amazing that in a self proclaimed conservative/liberatarian forum to see someone espousing another government program signed into law by a president bent on creating a socialist type of control over the citizenry. Are we here against Big Government or just against the Big Government we personally dislike?

Meanwhile back at the bunker Saddam is now disguised as a pool table as Tommy Franks prepares to rack up his balls.---Chainsaw

[hops]

GI benefits given to those who serve are 'social programs'? I think not! They put their neck on the line, they deserve some significant benifits. GI bill and the loan home VA loan thing are the price we as a society should pay. That also goes for their medical care.

The young Ms. Lynch has earned her due. She may have not figured on combat in her military position. She learned a hard lesson - the one about life being full of surprises.

Unlike the bozo who is hiding behind the conciencious objector moniker, after the fact, young Ms. Lynch earned her 'Honourable Discharge' many times over along with a few ribbons she can tell her students about one day.

[Ebbtide]

Chainsaw,

I was just composing a reply taking your side on the "priorities" issue until I back tracked and saw your post.

I would encourage you to read some history as Mike said. We have 300,000 young troops putting their life on the line for YOU, right NOW, and you essentially call them theives. Shame on you.

IOW: We, I, they, give/gave up 6-8 years of thier lives to defend something we believe in, for less than 12k a year and you call the GI bill a handout (not to mention we pay into the program).

Jackass comments like that will get you flamed.

ehenz


:banghead:

[Dannyboy]

socialist type of control over the citizenry
Please enlighten me as to why the GI Bill is a type of socialist control over the citizenry. I guess the offering of enlistment bonuses is socialistic as well? I didn't join for the money, the GI Bill was an added bonus for me but after 8+ years I think I earned that money.

[M1911]

Chainsaw: The GI bill after WWII was one of the best things that ever happened to this country.

[H Romberg]

I went to college on the GI bill. It wasn't the only reason I spent the best part of a decade in green by a long shot, but it was a significant one. If I'd been captured, would it have been my fault because of that? I think not.

Rant follows.....


A completely separate issue from the BI bill is the gender of the POW recovered. Why is the cute little blonde chick the only one alive? I was thinking they kept her as a toy until I heard how banged up she was. I suspect they kept her as a bargaining chip being the "American" looking female. They probably figured seeing her getting beat up later would really twist the knife in our collective guts. They're probably right.

If you've ever served with female soldiers , you know they can often be even tougher than the men they serve with when it comes to persistence and sheer tenacity. I have personally seen them smoke male soldiers on the PT test, and I wouldn't want to go up against most of them in a fire and maneuver contest. They tend to be lighter, more agile, and quicker than their male counterparts. The Army needs people like that. Don't underestimate them, and don't insult those who could kick your butt from here to Baghdad by saying they don't belong in combat just because they can't press 250#. That kind of logic is BS, and we all know it if we think about it, especially in an army as technical as this one.

Nobody belongs in combat. OTOH, any human can be trained to survive it, and with suficient training, we can all become very dangerous. 71L's are trained in infantry skills to the same extent as every support MOS.

Yes, there will be casualties. Yes, some will be female. Yes, POW's will be sexually abused when we fight human offal like the current Iraqi regime, and that includes the males too. It's part of breaking their will. It sucks, and that's why you're not supposed to surrender. It has nothing to do with gender though, because being a POW or a KIA sucks for you and your family regardless of that. It's a volunteer army, and we all know the risks when we sign up. We still do sign up though. It's kind of impressive. To demean the service of someone based just on gender is an insult to the entire army.

There are wusses and weaklings on both sides of the gender line. The fact that PFC Lynch survived the kind of wounds she sustained thus far is a strong indicator that she is neither.

[Tag]

I agree with you H.

Women are every bit as capable once properly trained, and if they choose to become a part of our military, so be it.

I hope she will be ok.

[Mike Irwin]

"It is amazing that in a self proclaimed conservative/liberatarian forum to see someone espousing another government program signed into law by a president bent on creating a socialist type of control over the citizenry."

WHAT?

What the hell kind of moronic statement is that?

Just WHAT about a program that is a benefit for those who SERVED their nation is a social handout?

The GI Bill isn't a program that rewards crack whores who crank out crack addicted children who become the next generation of leeches on society.

This is a program that's a benefit for those who served to PROTECT the nation and the freedoms that you and I enjoy as Americans.

It's shocking, sad, and disgusting that you apparently can't comprehend the difference between an honorably discharged military veteran and a crack addict.

[Pendragon]

The GI bill is the least we can do for those that put their lives on the line for very little money.

I came from a middle class home - parents were "too rich" for me to get any real college aid and too poor to send me to college.

I lived in a small town with no real opportunity. My parents let me live at home rent free and I worked to afford my car and go to community college - but high unemployment made finding a job difficult and my employer hassled me no end anytime I needed the slightest concession for school. I thought about it and tried to join the USAF, but I suffered a severe knee injury that took over 3 years to get better - even then I could not "duck walk" so they said no way...

If I had joined, I would have been able to go to college instead of trying to work my way through life with a HS Diploma. Yeah, I'm doing ok - but there are lots of kids that will make good use of this program and I could not be happier to see my tax dollars used this way.

If we cut the GI bill, we are going to start havind to pay soldiers $40k per year to join and Officers will have to earn much more.

Believe me - the GI bill is a good bargain for all involved.

[Sean Smith]

The G.I. Bill is simply payment for services rendered. Since enlisted personnel aren't paid jack squat to get shot and have their bones broken, you have to give them something. :rolleyes:

[ZekeLuvs1911]

First, the GI Bill is not "free." You have to contribute some cash for it. Also, you decided whether you wanted or not. I was in for 5 years in the USAF and was in for Gulf War I. I contributed $1200 to the fund and in return, I got my Degree in Management Science without having to spend dollar one for tutition. The GI bill is one of the best things around and is a good motivating factor for signing up. No regrets here. It is amazing to me how people who know nothing about something can call it a "handout." :fire:

[LawDog]

Amd merging threads again...

LawDog

[Pendragon]

What I'd like to know is why
someone that wants to be a teacher, signs up to be a soldier?

Despite what the left wants people to think, people who serve their country and see action and even kill other humans in the course of their service are no devoid of humanity, compassion, and the ability to care for others including teaching young children.

Sure she was a supply clerk, but she had combat training and things can and do go wrong. She survived and has made he country very proud of her.

The left would have us believe that only tree hugging, war protesting, liberals are fit to teach our young. If we had more soldiers teaching our kids, the country would be a LOT better off.

[David]

You go, girl!

Read this from the ap.com:

Rescued POW reportedly in gun battle to avoid being taken alive
JOE COLEMAN
Associated Press

LANDSTUHL, Germany - Spirited but hungry, rescued prisoner of war Pfc. Jessica Lynch arrived in Germany for treatment of two broken legs and bullet wounds reportedly suffered in a fierce gun battle she waged against her Iraqi captors.

The Washington Post reported Thursday that the 19-year-old Army supply clerk, whose unit had deployed out of Texas, shot several Iraqi soldiers during the March 23 ambush that resulted in her capture. She kept firing even after she had several gunshot wounds, finally running out of ammunition, the newspaper said, citing unidentified U.S. officials.

"She was fighting to the death," the Post quoted an official as saying. "She did not want to be taken alive."

Pentagon officials and family members contacted late Wednesday declined comment on the report.

Lynch was rescued from an Iraqi hospital in a daring nighttime raid Tuesday by U.S. commandos acting on a CIA tip.

The former POW left Iraq on a stretcher with an American flag folded across her chest, and arrived at a U.S. air base in Germany late Wednesday for treatment at an American military medical center.

From Germany, she spoke with her family at their home in Palestine, W.Va., in a 15-minute telephone call.

"She's real spirited. She hasn't eaten in eight days and she's hungry," said her father, Greg Lynch. "She wants some food."

Randy Coleman, a military spokesman in West Virginia, said Lynch had fractures in both legs, and her family said she also injured her arm. U.S. officials in Kuwait said earlier she had two broken legs, a broken arm and at least one gunshot wound.

According to the Post account, she was also stabbed when Iraqi forces closed in on her.

"She's weak, she knows she's injured and they're doing the best that they can to get her so she can travel," aid her brother Greg Lynch Jr. Her father said she will be transferred to Walter Reed Hospital in Washington as soon as possible.

The U.S. forces who rescued her also found 11 corpses - some believed to be Americans - in and around Saddam Hospital, and the military was trying to determine whether any of them were captured members of her unit.

Lynch and as many as 12 other members of the 507th Maintenance Company, based at Fort Bliss in El Paso, Texas, were captured after making a wrong turn in Nasiriyah. She watched several soldiers in her unit die in the ambush, the Post reported.

Not long after the fighting, five of Lynch's fellow soldiers showed up in Iraqi television footage being asked questions by their captors.

The video also showed bodies, apparently of U.S. soldiers, leading the Pentagon to accuse Iraq of executing some POWs.
******

Our US troops are REALLY great!

:D :D :D

[Kahr carrier]

Sounds like she is pretty tuff.:)

[Triad]

I don't know that I would want to be taken alive either. If I was a woman I think I'd be more certain though.

[Matt G]

Nifty gal. Great to hear the raid was successful in bringing her home, too. Good intel, good execution saved a fine American soldier. (Supply clerk? Sure. But first a soldier. ;) )

[Stetson_CO]

The Governor of W. Va. has said her tuition is paid for, for college. No GI BIll needed.

c):{

[sm]

Pfc. Jessica Lynch , Godspeed in recovering, thoughts and prayers continue for you , as well as to all in harms way at this time.

The will to survive... inspiration / reminder for us all.

[Feanaro]

She is one lucky woman and a strong one at that. Sounds like a good soldier as well. Her father could use some Ginko-boloba or something like that though. If she hadn't eaten in eight days, I think I could figure out that she was hungry.

[Detritus]

i've been reading a number of different reports of Pfc Lynch's action. and what gets me is that so many of these articles seem to convey SHOCK at the fact that Lynch fought as well as she did. as if somehow a FEMALE soldier would be less inclined to put up a firece fight!:rolleyes: and truthfully i find such beliefs (in females being less agressive) to be disturbing.

having grown up around the Military, having a best friend who is a female Supply Sgt. (albeit in a NC Nat Guard unit), and having Married a former soldier i can tell you they can and in many case will fight harder than their male counterparts. physical strength or size is NOT what determines how well one fights, esp not now. the mere fact that they are not only surviving but many times thriving in the male dominated world of the millitary is a testament to inner strength. how many men wash out of basic each year.


oh yes and this was added by my wife.....

think on this one, you're an american soldier, you are female and you get ambushed by a force of an opposing nation that is KNOWN to torture and sexually assualt female POWs (remember the captured Female Flight Surgeon from the first gulf war). what are YOU gonna do??

ok sorry i had to vent a bit.

my point is this Hooray for Pfc Lynch, shame on those who even in the slightest make it sound as if her being female makes her actions "more worthy" that makes it seem as if she started off with "less" than a male soldier which is BS. it doesn't matter what a soldier's gender is. my upbringing tells me ALL are equal. and death and bravery certainly don't discriminate!!

[2dogs]

http://www.msnbc.com/news/894669.asp?0cl=c3

Rescued POW
put up fierce fight

Details emerge of W.Va. soldier’s capture and rescue

By Susan Schmidt and Vernon Loeb
THE WASHINGTON POST



April 3 — Pfc. Jessica Lynch, rescued Tuesday from an Iraqi hospital, fought fiercely and shot several enemy soldiers after Iraqi forces ambushed the Army’s 507th Ordnance Maintenance Company, firing her weapon until she ran out of ammunition, U.S. officials said yesterday.





LYNCH, A 19-YEAR-OLD supply clerk, continued firing at the Iraqis even after she sustained multiple gunshot wounds and watched several other soldiers in her unit die around her in fighting March 23, one official said. The ambush took place after a 507th convoy, supporting the advancing 3rd Infantry Division, took a wrong turn near the southern city of Nasiriyah.

‘FIGHTING TO THE DEATH’
“She was fighting to the death,” the official said. “She did not want to be taken alive.”


Lynch was also stabbed when Iraqi forces closed in on her position, the official said, noting that initial intelligence reports indicated that she had been stabbed to death. No official gave any indication yesterday, however, that Lynch’s wounds had been life-threatening.
Several officials cautioned that the precise sequence of events is still being determined, and that further information will emerge as Lynch is debriefed. Reports thus far are based on battlefield intelligence, they say, which comes from monitored communications and from Iraqi sources in Nasiriyah whose reliability has yet to be assessed. Pentagon officials said they had heard “rumors” of Lynch’s heroics but had no confirmation.
There was no immediate indication whether Lynch’s fellow soldiers killed in the ambush were among 11 bodies found by Special Operations forces who rescued Lynch at Saddam Hussein Hospital in Nasiriyah. U.S. officials said that at least some of the bodies are believed to be those of U.S. servicemen. Two of the bodies were found in the hospital’s morgue, and nine were found in shallow graves on the grounds outside.
Seven soldiers from the 507th are still listed as missing in action following the ambush. Five others, four men and a woman, were taken captive after the attack. Video footage of the five has been shown on Iraqi television, along with grisly pictures of at least four soldiers killed in the battle.






Lynch, of Palestine, W.Va., arrived yesterday at a U.S. military hospital in Germany. She was in “stable” condition, with broken arms and a broken leg in addition to the gunshot and stab wounds, sources said. Other sources said both legs were broken, and one arm. Victoria Clarke, a Pentagon spokeswoman, gave no specifics of Lynch’s condition, telling reporters only that she is “in good spirits and being treated for injuries.”
But one military officer briefed on her condition said that while Lynch was conscious and able to communicate with the U.S. commandos who rescued her, “she was pretty messed up.” Last night Lynch spoke by telephone with her parents, who said she was in good spirits, but hungry and in pain.

‘TALK ABOUT SPUNK!’
“Talk about spunk!” said Sen. Pat Roberts (R-Kan.), whom military officials had briefed on the rescue. “She just persevered. It takes that and a tremendous faith that your country is going to come and get you.”
One Army official said that it could be some time before Lynch is reunited with her family, since experience with those taken prisoner since the Vietnam War indicates that soldiers held in captivity need time to “decompress” and reflect on their ordeal with the help of medical professionals.
“It’s real important to have decompression time before they get back with their families to assure them that they served their country honorably,” the official said. “She’ll meet with Survival, Escape, Resistance and Evasion psychologists. These are medical experts in dealing with this type of things.”
At Central Command headquarters in Qatar, Brig. Gen. Vincent Brooks showed a brief night-vision video clip of commandos rushing Lynch, on a stretcher, to a Black Hawk helicopter. Later, television networks showed footage of her arriving in Germany.
One intriguing account of Lynch’s captivity came from an unidentified Iraqi pharmacist at Saddam Hussein Hospital who told Sky News, a British network, that he had cared for her and heard her crying about wanting to be reunited with her family.
“She said every time, about wanting to go home,” said the pharmacist, who was filmed at the hospital wearing a white medical coat over a black T-shirt. “She knew that the American Army and the British were on the other side of the [Euphrates] river in Nasiriyah city. . . . She said, ‘Maybe this minute the American Army [will] come and get me.’ ” The only injuries the pharmacist said he was aware of were to Lynch’s leg, but there was no way to evaluate his statement.
Lynch’s rescue at midnight local time Tuesday was a classic Special Operations raid, with U.S. commandos in Black Hawk helicopters engaging Iraqi forces on their way in and out of the medical compound, defense officials said.
Acting on information from CIA operatives, they said, a Special Operations force of Navy SEALs, Army Rangers and Air Force combat controllers touched down in blacked-out conditions. An AC-130 gunship, able to fire 1,800 rounds a minute from its 25mm cannon, circled overhead, as did a reconnaissance aircraft providing video imagery of the operation as it unfolded.
“There was shooting going in, there was some shooting going out,” said one military officer briefed on the operation. “It was not intensive. There was no shooting in the building, but it was hairy, because no one knew what to expect. When they got inside, I don’t think there was any resistance. It was fairly abandoned.”
Meanwhile, U.S. Marines advanced in Nasiriyah to divert whatever Iraqi forces might still have been in the area.
The officer said that Special Operations forces found what looked like a “prototype” Iraqi torture chamber in the hospital’s basement, with batteries and metal prods.
Briefing reporters at Central Command headquarters, Brooks said the hospital apparently was being used as a military command post. Commandos whisked Lynch to the Black Hawk helicopter that had landed inside the hospital compound, he said, while others remained behind to clear the hospital.
The announcement of the raid was delayed for more than an hour yesterday because some U.S. troops had remained on the ground longer than anticipated, Brooks said. “We wanted to preserve the safety of the forces,” he said.

[280PLUS]

too bad she's about 25 years too late...

:(

:evil:

oh, speaking of valiant fighting, i mention again the ~2000 women snipers the russians fielded in ww2.

they alone should set aside anyone's doubts as to whether women can fight courageously.

:D

it just goes to show how far some of these 'journalists' have their heads up their a**

:fire:

[foghornl]

Again, not the size of the warrior in the battle, but the size of the battle in the warrior.....

[El Tejon]

As wise man in Tejas sez, the fight will last as long as your ammunition does.

[Phyphor]

Damned right. So much for the validity of the 'women can't fight' argument.

Would that she had a SAW and a ****load of ammo.......

[Steve in PA]

Not to rain on her parade........but how does anyone know what she did???

If she is the only one who survived.......???????:confused:

[pax]

Moved this to the proper forum and merged multiple threads.

She is a soldier.

pax

If fate means you to lose, give him a good fight anyhow. -- William McFee

[critter]

#1: She gets a salute from me!
#2: Those who had a part in her rescue get a salute from me!
#3: Can anyone tell me how much ammo she was likely carrying?

[Steve in PA]

I still want to know how these un-named officials know what happened on the battlefield when all of her fellow soldiers were killed???

I'm just playing the devils advocate here......nothing personal.

[Steve in PA]

She should have been carrying a 30 round magazine in her weapon and 6 more magazines with her gear.

[Master Blaster]

Curious, why is it that they can't determine if the 11 bodies are US soldiers, they know and have pictures of the others in her unit? were they horribly mutilated? Dog tags taken? faces disfigured?

How did PFC Lynch break two legs and her arm in a firefight?

It sounds to me like the soldiers were abused and totured, including PFC Lynch, broken limbs from a severe beating by her captors?



:fire:

[Leatherneck]

Scuttlebutt around the Pentagon this morning is about how she will be decorated. For sure she joins the small group of females wearing the CAR (Combat Action Ribbon), the Purple Heart, and some award for valor. Speculation runs as high as the Congressional Medal of Honor, but almost certainly the Silver Star. Good for her: she deserves to be decorated.

TC
TFL Survivor

[Steve in PA]

Wouldn't someone need to be a witness for the Medal of Valor?? To attest to the acts or deeds the medal is supposed to signify??

[Sean Smith]

I believe she was in the Army, and the Army doesn't hand out Combat Action Ribbons. The Purple Heart is a no-brainer, she might even get more than one if the injuries happened in separate incidents. As for awards for valor, that kind of depends... there would have to be actual evidence of something beyond just shooting back at the bad guys, not just rumors and newspaper stories.

IF the stories of her fighting on through multiple gunshot wounds are true, of course, she deserves some sort of decoration for valor. The Medal of Honor is pretty unlikely, partly because of the evidence requirements, and partly because it is just unlikely for anyone to get it no matter what they do, up to and including dying.

My guess? Bronze Star with "V" device for valor. But you really never know, the Army awards "system" is wierd and inconsistent as hell. Even getting dinky medals for people that worked for me was a total bureaucratic crap shoot.

[Steve in PA]

Right.......every single soldier or Marine out there could claim to have been in a fire fight and killed "x" number of Iraqi soldiers.

And this isn't a case of female soldier bashing.......if she was a male I'd still want to know how the government knows what happened???? It isn't logical. :scrutiny:

[Leatherneck]

the Army doesn't hand out Combat Action Ribbons

Oops. My bad. The CAR is a Navy/Marine Corps creation. And I understand that the Combat Infantry Badge is restricted to combat MOSs as well, for which she might not qualify (IIRC, she's a clerical/supply type of soldier). True?

TC
TFL Survivor

[Archer]

Steve in PA,

What exactly is your agenda on this subject ?

[cordex]

Good girl!
Lived in WVa for a while. That state can sure raise survivors.

[cuchulainn]

Good on her.

[griz]

Seems to me that if you have a wounded soldier and the remainder of the unit is KIA then some sort of enemy action had to have happened. I’ll admit the first reports may not have the specifics correct, but please at least admit she deserves respect.

My thanks and respect go to PFC Lynch. If there were a smiley for a salute it would be right here.

[Steve in PA]

My agenda is.......whether it was a male or female...........who saw what happened???? I smell a rat........sorry, but thats the way I feel. Someone personally saw her take out several enemy soldiers?????


"Un-named sources"........and the "news" are reporting she did this..........I'm a veteran so I'm all for the guts and glory and defending yourself and country.......but I feel the government is stuffing this down our throats.

[Steve in PA]

She deserves and gets my respect........I just have a feeling some suit in Washington said......hey, we can use this to our advantage.

[M1911]

To get the thread back on track, the Washington Post is reporting that Pfc. Lynch put up dogged resistance during the ambush. They are reporting that she continued to fire her gun after she received multiple gunshot wounds. She fired until she ran out of ammo, apparently shooting several Iraqis. In addition to her gunshot wounds, she was stabbed as well. Reportedly, she had decided to fight to the death, but ran out of ammo: http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/articles/A14879-2003Apr2.html

Tough lady. Hooah!

[Dannyboy]

Leatherneck, the CIB is awarded to infantry (11 series) soldiers only...well, maybe SF guys too. Either way, she won't be getting the CIB. I think Sean is right about the Bronze Star.

[Ebbtide]

Since the Post is making you register (or something) I'll post the whole article which is worth reading.

Also take note that an Iraqi woman helped tipped off our forces. That is two heros in my book considering the Iraqi's fate if seen passing the note.

'She Was Fighting to the Death'
Details Emerging of W. Va. Soldier's Capture and Rescue

By Susan Schmidt and Vernon Loeb
Washington Post Staff Writers
Thursday, April 3, 2003; Page A01


Pfc. Jessica Lynch, rescued Tuesday from an Iraqi hospital, fought fiercely and shot several enemy soldiers after Iraqi forces ambushed the Army's 507th Ordnance Maintenance Company, firing her weapon until she ran out of ammunition, U.S. officials said yesterday.

Lynch, a 19-year-old supply clerk, continued firing at the Iraqis even after she sustained multiple gunshot wounds and watched several other soldiers in her unit die around her in fighting March 23, one official said. The ambush took place after a 507th convoy, supporting the advancing 3rd Infantry Division, took a wrong turn near the southern city of Nasiriyah.

"She was fighting to the death," the official said. "She did not want to be taken alive."

Lynch was also stabbed when Iraqi forces closed in on her position, the official said, noting that initial intelligence reports indicated that she had been stabbed to death. No official gave any indication yesterday, however, that Lynch's wounds had been life-threatening.

Several officials cautioned that the precise sequence of events is still being determined, and that further information will emerge as Lynch is debriefed. Reports thus far are based on battlefield intelligence, they said, which comes from monitored communications and from Iraqi sources in Nasiriyah whose reliability has yet to be assessed. Pentagon officials said they had heard "rumors" of Lynch's heroics but had no confirmation.

There was no immediate indication whether Lynch's fellow soldiers killed in the ambush were among the 11 bodies found by the Special Operations commandos who rescued Lynch at Saddam Hussein Hospital in Nasiriyah. U.S. officials said that at least some of the bodies are believed to be those of U.S. servicemen. Two were found in the hospital's morgue, and nine were found in shallow graves on the grounds outside.

Seven soldiers from the 507th are still listed as missing in action following the ambush. Five others, four men and a woman, were taken captive after the attack. Video footage of the five has been shown on Iraqi television, along with grisly pictures of at least four soldiers killed in the battle.

Lynch, of Palestine, W.Va., arrived yesterday at a U.S. military hospital in Germany. She was in "stable" condition, with broken arms and a broken leg in addition to the gunshot and stab wounds, sources said. Other sources said both legs and one arm were broken. Victoria Clarke, a Pentagon spokeswoman, gave no specifics of Lynch's condition, telling reporters only that she is "in good spirits and being treated for injuries."

But one military officer briefed on her condition said that while Lynch was conscious and able to communicate with the U.S. commandos who rescued her, "she was pretty messed up." Last night Lynch spoke by telephone with her parents, who said she was in good spirits, but hungry and in pain.

"Talk about spunk!" said Sen. Pat Roberts (R-Kan.), whom military officials had briefed on the rescue. "She just persevered. It takes that and a tremendous faith that your country is going to come and get you."

One Army official said that it could be some time before Lynch is reunited with her family, since experience with those taken prisoner since the Vietnam War indicates that soldiers held in captivity need time to "decompress" and reflect on their ordeal with the help of medical professionals.

"It's real important to have decompression time before they get back with their families to assure them that they served their country honorably," the official said. "She'll meet with Survival, Escape, Resistance and Evasion psychologists. These are medical experts in dealing with this type of things."

At Central Command headquarters in Qatar, Brig. Gen. Vincent Brooks showed a brief night-vision video clip of commandos rushing Lynch, on a stretcher, to a Black Hawk helicopter. Later, television networks showed footage of her arriving in Germany.

One intriguing account of Lynch's captivity came from an unidentified Iraqi pharmacist at Saddam Hussein Hospital who told Sky News, a British network, that he had cared for her and heard her crying about wanting to be reunited with her family.

"She said every time, about wanting to go home," said the pharmacist, who was filmed at the hospital wearing a white medical coat over a black T-shirt. "She knew that the American Army and the British were on the other side of the [Euphrates] river in Nasiriyah city. . . . She said, 'Maybe this minute the American Army [will] come and get me.' " The only injuries the pharmacist said he was aware of were to Lynch's leg, but there was no way to evaluate his statement.

Lynch's rescue at midnight local time Tuesday was a classic Special Operations raid, with U.S. commandos in Black Hawk helicopters engaging Iraqi forces on their way in and out of the medical compound, defense officials said.

Acting on information from CIA operatives, they said, a Special Operations force of Navy SEALs, Army Rangers and Air Force combat controllers touched down in blacked-out conditions. An AC-130 gunship, able to fire 1,800 rounds a minute from its 25mm cannon, circled overhead, as did a reconnaissance aircraft providing video imagery of the operation as it unfolded.

"There was shooting going in, there was some shooting going out," said one military officer briefed on the operation. "It was not intensive. There was no shooting in the building, but it was hairy, because no one knew what to expect. When they got inside, I don't think there was any resistance. It was fairly abandoned."

Meanwhile, U.S. Marines advanced in Nasiriyah to divert whatever Iraqi forces might still have been in the area.

The officer said that Special Operations forces found what looked like a "prototype" Iraqi torture chamber in the hospital's basement, with batteries and metal prods.

Briefing reporters at Central Command headquarters, Brooks said the hospital apparently was being used as a military command post. Commandos whisked Lynch to the Black Hawk helicopter that had landed inside the hospital compound, he said, while others remained behind to clear the hospital.

The announcement of the raid was delayed for more than an hour because some U.S. troops were on the ground longer than anticipated, Brooks said. "We wanted to preserve the safety of the forces," he said.

[RustyHammer]

:(

[riverdog]

Several officials cautioned that the precise sequence of events is still being determined, and that further information will emerge as Lynch is debriefed. Reports thus far are based on battlefield intelligence, they said, which comes from monitored communications and from Iraqi sources in Nasiriyah whose reliability has yet to be assessed. Pentagon officials said they had heard "rumors" of Lynch's heroics but had no confirmation. Before PFC Lynch gets her GI Bill benefits, she will receive a Purple Heart and probably and Bronze Star. She is a soldier. There is no doubt in my mind why such a large Spec Op mission was put together for one PFC.

[Sean Smith]

Steve's question is legit. He's questioning the EVIDENCE that we have (which ain't much), not the woman herself. If you've been paying attention, the media has been full of crap constantly for the last 100 years or more. The personal attacks are uncalled for.

[DeltaElite]

Wonderful, as every soldier of either gender should fight.

Godspeed Jessica. :D

[Mike Irwin]

Not to mention the many fighter and bomber pilots that the Soviets fielded who were women...

Including two women who became aces.

Women may not be as physically strong as men, but it's clear that they can fight just as hard and long as men.

It's a pity that it appears that no other Americans survived to witness her actions...

[Coronach]

Also, Steve is noting that in order to be decorated, there is a requirement for witnesses to the action (in most cases, at least). he is correctly noting that, at present, we have none.

No need for personal attacks.

Mike

[riverdog]

Several officials cautioned that the precise sequence of events is still being determined, and that further information will emerge as Lynch is debriefed. Reports thus far are based on battlefield intelligence, they said, which comes from monitored communications and from Iraqi sources in Nasiriyah whose reliability has yet to be assessed. Pentagon officials said they had heard "rumors" of Lynch's heroics but had no confirmation. Purple Heart is a no-brainer. As for Valor, note that she hadn't been debriefed at the time of the WA Post report. This info was from battlefield intelligence. Besides the other members of the 507th, I would guess that a number of Iraqi's also witnessed the firefight. We'll see, my guess would also be a Bronze Star with "V", but I'm not a politician. Regardless, she is a soldier. As to her not receiving the CIB, too bad, but then how many women have a Bronze Star with "V"? She is in with a fairly small group. How many Bronze Stars w/ "V" are not accompanied by a CIB?

[10-Ring]

The more I hear & read about her story, the more impressed I am. I can't wait until the entire story is released.

[Johnny Guest]

No need for questioning one another's personhood.

Steve may only be a bit skeptical about attributing heroic acts to someone, merely because the soldier was a female. Perhaps Steve has seen undeserved awards made in the past. Some DO quesion whether women can be good fighters. It is probably unfair of us to attribute ulterior motives to his, what, FOUR?, demands for evidence. Maybe he will be equally demanding of proper evidence for every decoration proposed, not awarded, to every male WIA in this conflict.

As to evidence-- We here, safe before our keyboards, have ZERO knowledge of the examination conducted at the battle site. It should be easy to learn PFC Lynch's assignment--In which vehicle she was riding or driving. What of the condition of the vehicles? Empty brass and magazines? What type weapons were carried by each of the personnel present? Maybe they ALL had M16s--Maybe some carried only pistols. None of us know.

In this technological age, it is entirely possible that photorecon aircraft, manned or drone, could have photographed or taped the battle. It is not beyond question that some satellite imaging might exist. How about local assets furnishing information? Doubtful, all of it, but possible.

I've been to crime scenes where vehicle placement, weapons leftovers, and blood stains alone made it fairly clear what had occurred. Oh, yeah, blood. Probably a bit too soon for serological analysis, but IF a detailed scene examination were conducted, you could probably form a good image of where each soldier fell during the battle.

I move that we all cut each other, and PFC Lynch, a good deal of slack. Benefit of a doubt, y'know? After all, she hasn't been awarded ANY decorations yet.

Johnny

[CZ-75]

I know that I have an agenda not to let an incident like what happened to PFC Lynch be turned into a PC lovefest where they hand out medals that wouldn't have been given to a male POW for doing the same thing, just for the publicity value. Equality is just that and if the evidence of her conduct is hearsay and not sufficient for any male soldier to be decorated, then PFC Lynch shouldn't get them either.

Tell me you don't think it is possible that military spin doctors in the Pentagon don't see the publicity value of fudging the facts to give decorations to a female soldier. There should be no affirmative action criteria for commendations and anything less is a slap in the face to the soldiers that have to meet a higher standard because of gender, race, etc.

Conversely, being female shouldn't preclude PFC Lynch from getting medals either. If the stories are true, she deserves them (but NOT the medal of honor - not for this at least).

[Zander]

It's gonna make a heck of a movie...

[XLMiguel]

Hmmmm, I seem to remeber that when I was in, everyone had a secondary MOS of 11B, regardsless of what your primary assignement was.

FWIW, in nature, the female is often the deadlier of the species, and it ain't the size of the dog in the fight, but rather the size of the fight in the dog.

Ya done good Mountaineer Lady! Prayers & best wishes for a speedy recovery.

[Baba Louie]

While I'm glad that she is safe and resting with quite an ordeal behind AND ahead of her, I say KUDO'S to those few who planned, mounted and executed the rescue op.

Those gentlemen (any bets on female participants in the ground portion of the op?) deserve a medal or three, perhaps. Maybe just one families undying gratitude is enough.

It'll be an interesting story when it all comes out.

Prayers for the rest of her unit's KIA families.

Adios

[M1911]

Curious, why is it that they can't determine if the 11 bodies are US soldiers, they know and have pictures of the others in her unit? were they horribly mutilated? Dog tags taken? faces disfigured?They never said that they can't determine if they are US soldiers. They said that they had not determined. The two are very different. Furthermore, they may well already know which are and which are not US soldiers. But they are not going to divulge that information until they notify the families in person. Have patience.

[spacemanspiff]

the only comments i distrust is that of the iraqi pharmicist, saying 'she cried everyday to go home, and she was in good health'.

suffering GSW's and broken bones is not in good health. i think the pharmicist was lying about her and how she acted while in the 'hospital'.

on the subject of awarding medals or citations, there has been some awarded in which no one physically witnessed what happened. since i dont have all the details right in front of me, i wont go into the nitty gritty, as i dont want to disrespect those who earned the Medals by giving an inaccurate description of the events.
i'll try to remember to bring the article to work with me tomorrow.

[Archer]

Steve says:

I smell a rat........

Yup. Me too. But probably not the same one.

Witnesses. Hopefully, some of the rest of her company who are still POW will be freed to tell us what happened. Maybe the Pentagon will release the intel and evidence they have.

Perhaps not.

Perhaps Steve agrees with the Iraqui information minister's views on this issue and on his statements regarding the location of our forces vis a vis Baghdad too.

Perhaps not.

[D.W. Drang]

Mike in VA: Hmmmm, I seem to remeber that when I was in, everyone had a secondary MOS of 11B, regardsless of what your primary assignement was You're dating yourself. "Everyone" NEVER had a secondary of 11B, despite barracks rumor, and they haven't required NCOs to have a secondary MOS for years--as in well over a decade. Or, I somehow managed to slip though the cracks and make it through over 20 years in the Army without a secondary...

"Every Marine is a Rifleman", however. :evil:

[Pilgrim]

The Doubting Thomases have good reason to be skeptical. Does anyone remember Lt Kara Hultgren, the F-14 pilot who died in a landing accident aboard an aircraft carrier? The official cause of the accident was engine failure. Pilot error was discounted. Then it came out that she was a substandard student all through flight training.

Then later another woman F-14 pilot, a classmate of Lt Hultgren's, had her wings pulled for poor landing performance at the ship. The stories began to surface that there was so much pressure to put women in fighter seats that they were passed for performance that would have sacked any other male pilot.

The movement to put women in combat roles is desperate to have a hero out of this war. I wouldn't put it past any one to embellish a story to get a hero. Especially the news media.

[El Tejon]

Pilgrim, I fear the "Broadway" wing of the Pentagon; however, there is no reason, as of yet, to doubt the evidence. Did not these reports come from her? I see no reason for her credibility to be in doubt.

[riverdog]

Did not these reports come from her? The reports so far have come from battlefield intelligence, not from the PFC.

Pilgrim, I knew Kara and I know a lot of the stories and others. She was a good pilot but perhaps too aggressive (her aggressiveness was noted during her training at Fallon. Personally, I believe the cause was engine failure; do you know that it wasn't engine failure?

[Matt G]

Pilgrim, if we were to stipulate that there was some embellishment going on about PFC Lynch's heroics, why in the world to you believe that it would have anything at all to do with the "put women into combat" camp?

Far, far more likely it would be that such stipulated grandstanding came from the PsyOps folks, who wish to let the news reports (and even though Al Jazeera may have pulled out of Baghdad, there's PLENTY of BBC and A.J. broadcasts coming into the country) of a lowly infidel woman kicking numerous Iraqi butts do their thing to the psyche of the Iraqi fence-sitters. ["Damn, Ahmad; even their women are hellcats! I'm outta here!" "You said it, Reza! Let's blow this post!"]

[anchored]

Seems like most people assume the only valid witness would be an american witness, but you forget there's a pretty god intelligence network in place and a lot of iraqi civillians willing to talk - such as the ones that gave the tips to the CIA that led to her rescue and the ones that told her while in the hosp that the good guys were on the way.

I'm not surprised at all - she's just from a few counties over and I'd put money on any armed W. Va. soldier, female or male, vs. a hostile enemy. Word from the governor is her homecoming will be the biggest party we've seen around here for awhile, and I'll be there. Screw that "American Idol" crap, we grow our own heroes in these here hills.

[Al Thompson]

When this story comes out, it's going to be interesting. And probably very sad. I'll accept any thing the PFC says at face value until proven otherwise.

I will never entirly believe anything out of DC, no matter who puts it out.

Remember the lady MP officer who was "the first lady officer to lead US troops in combat" - Panama '89? I knew her husband and it was very embarassing for them as well as untrue.

I see a big disconnect in the wound reports - GSWs that break bones tend to be nasty. I suspect the enemy probably broke her legs - according to Robin Moore in his new book, that's a favorite method.

I'm sure someone's head is rolling, but how did this element get seperated and surrounded? Looks like darn poor leadership and a disgusting replay of the two Army personnel that got captured in GWI.

[Mike Irwin]

Anchor,

I may be wrong about this, but I believe that for a higher medal for valor to be awarded, the witnesses have to be either American or allied personnel.

[Beorn]

I wish her a speedy recovery, rest, recuperation, and time to reflect on her ordeal.

I want her to receive what ever praise she deserves, and her rescuers to receive the same. She is a determined person, to be sure.

I hope she wasn't, um, defiled in any way, if you take my meaning...

God Bless her

[Pilgrim]

The listed cause of the accident was engine failure. However there is a question of whether her response to the failure was appropriate. The F-14 has two engines and at landing weight has plenty of power to wave off and try it again. It seemed in the mishap report that pilot error was downplayed.

My experience on F-14 single engine performance comes from reading the F-14 NATOPS manual and trying to come up with a policy for launching F-14s on USS Ranger in afterburner or in basic engine. I was a catapult officer then and the Ranger's commanding officer didn't like afterburner launches at night because it ruined the night vision of the Officer of the Deck.

I and the squadron F-14 NATOPS officers looked at the manual and it showed a F-14 would still climb at 60,000 pounds gross weight on single engine, but not by much. We convinced the captain that it was better to already to be in burner when an engine was lost than risk having the pilot trying to manage flying at single engine minimum control speed and have the burner kick in.

I watched the tapes of the mishap and the LSO called for power several times and IIRC ordered her to "wave off." My interpretation of the tape is that she pulled the nose of the aircraft up which caused loss of directional control as evidenced by the rapid roll to the left and departure from controlled flight. Maximum landing weight for the F-14 used to be 52,000 pounds. It was upgraded to 53,800 in later models. So in landing configuration the F-14 is four tons lighter than the normal take off weight in my experience in 1979 without weapons.

Years before Lt. Hultgren's mishap, I was arresting gear officer on USS Ranger when a Marine RF4B Phantom lost an engine during day carrier qualifications. The pilot was still making the turn to final and had about 45 degrees of turn to go. At that point his altitude was about 375 feet. The pilot immediately leveled his wings, added full power on the good engine and recovered. He flew to a divert field to make a successful emergency landing.

The F-14, while it appears to be a centerline thrust twin engine aircraft, has considerable separation between the two engines. IIRC, it is about six feet. Any aircraft with an assymetrical thrust situation as in one engine out has a minimum control speed that one does not go below at full power because there will not be enough rudder to maintain directional control.

I have some multi-engine time in the C1A, a twin engine transport variant of the S2 Tracker submarine hunter. The one thing a pilot had to be very careful of when losing an engine is keeping the speed up. If the aircraft is below minimum control speed, the pilot must lower the nose, and regain speed before adding full power on the good engine.

I have to dig into memory in Lt Hultgren's mishap report. It suggested the reason for her engine failure was the inlet ramp or the inlet guide vanes to the engine which did not program correctly causing a stall and loss of thrust. It happened at a particularly bad time during the approach turn to final when the power would have been reduced. In this situation I expect that when she added power to set the correct rate of descent, she would have noticed it took more throttle advance to hold glideslope, and there would have been a pronounced yaw due to assymetric thrust.

The LSO called for the addition of power, probably noting a rapidly decelerating airframe and settling below glideslope. He made several calls for power followed by a waveoff. And if I also remember correctly he told her to raise her landing gear. She might have made it if she had immediately analyzed her problem and applied the appropriate procedures to deal with a loss of engine.

It seems in the official reports to the media pilot error was downplayed.

I have been a senior member of a couple of aircraft mishap boards. While there is not supposed to be any political influence on the results of the AMB, I can testify there is tremendous political influence if the mishap pilot is well liked in the community, or if an agenda is being protected.

I did not bring this up to be disrespectful to Lt Hultgren's memory or belittle PFC Lynch's experience and performance of duty. I did so to avoid a stampede to make heroes out of people who merely did their duty.

[Dannyboy]

I just read that she got 3 scholarship offers from different universities and the Governor of WV has said that she can attend any state school tuition free, basically.

[mcole]

if she is hungry, she is going to be fine. a shining example of america's brightest and best; willing to fight for what she believes in. not just a baggy pants mall ninja. mcole

[riverdog]

Pilgrim,
Not to dwell on this 'cause all I have is second-hand info, "they" programmed one of the F-14 simulators with the parameters of Kara's final situation and IIRC only one pilot (LCDR?) was able to recover the aircraft. She may have contributed by not recognizing the problem or not acting quickly enough, but she was a nugget as an F-14 pilot after all. The bulk of her flight time was in EA-6A's.

[Steve in PA]

Batlefield intelligence?? Isn't that an oxymoron???

Some people think I'm have bad or negative feelings toward Lynch, I don't

I'm merely stating that on what grounds is someone saying that she did the acts she is supposed to have done???

If the "battlefield intelligence" was there to witness it......then why did her unit get over run??? Why didn't they help her and her fellow soldiers???

I could care less if she was a female.....or a male. I just don't believe everything that is spoon fed to me. I'm still amazed that there are some out there that do.

Audey Murphy was a hero........but he had people that witnessed his unbelievable accomplishments.

If someone can prove, beyond "un-named sources" saying she did the things she is supposed to have done.....then post them here.

She gets my respect, as a soldier who has/is serving her counrty honorably..........alot more than the whinning Marine reservist who has his mommy holding his hand saying "I didn't know they killed people".

Good luck to her.

[LawDog]

http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,83093,00.html

Her family is saying that she doesn't have any gunshot or stab wounds.

One of these days the media is going to get all their ducks in a row before sounding off and I'll probably keel over from a shock-induced heart attack.

LawDog

[Steve in PA]

What......you mean the media reported something not true???? Why I never!!!! :banghead:

If I'm wrong about her and her accomplishments, I'll be the first to kiss her butt on Picadilli Square (sp?)

The next few days should prove quite interesting.

[spacemanspiff]

i dont think she'd appreciate you kissing her posterior. a simple letter of apology sent to her for doubting 'battlefield intelligence' reports will suffice.

:evil:

[Steve in PA]

Hmmmmm............

http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story2&cid=540&e=7&u=/ap/20030403/ap_on_re_mi_ea/war_pow_family

"POW Father Denies Daughter Shot, Stabbed"

" PALESTINE, W.Va. - The father of rescued POW Army Pfc. Jessica Lynch said Thursday she was in great spirits following her first surgery and said she had not been shot or stabbed during her ordeal"

"We have heard and seen reports that she had multiple gunshot wounds and a knife stabbing. The doctor has not seen any of this," Gregory Lynch Sr. said. "There's no entry (wounds) whatsoever."

"The Washington Post reported Thursday that Lynch shot several Iraqi soldiers during the firefight and kept firing until she ran out of ammunition even after suffering several gunshot wounds. Pentagon officials declined to comment on the report."

Hmmmmmmm............very interesting.......intersting indeed.:scrutiny:

[Steve in PA]

I don't think a letter of aplogy or a butt kissing will be coming. :neener:

[Gmac]

I see the CHAIRBORNE RANGERS on this board are jumping to conclusions again!This young lady deserves a salute for her service and surviving her ordeal. She and the troops who rescued her make me proud to be an American . May God bless her and speed her recovery.

[Erik]

True, gunshot wounds or not.

So too with her companions which will never be able to tell their stories. (For the sake of their families I hope she can and will. To them, that is.)

[Steve in PA]

Yeah.......all those "chairborne rangers".......jumping to conclusions. They should have waited to see is she really was the next Rambette! :scrutiny:

[Pilgrim]

No problem. I remember the simulator tests.

Simulators are good things, but I don't think they will ever be the same as the real thing. I understand they are getting better and better, but I still think there is no subsitute for the real thing.

When I was a pilot at NAS Lemoore, we had the Night Carrier Landing Trainer which I thought did a fine job as a procedures trainer. It still was not the same as flying the A7 aboard the ship. For one thing, it could be "gamed." With enough experience a pilot could set a certain power setting and it would fly aboard the ship to a perfect three wire. We LSOs figured this out and made sure to change the wind, turbulence and sea state conditions each pass the pilot made to prevent canned solutions.

Again, IIRC the initial simulator tests at Miramar duplicating the Lt Hultgren mishap were considered unrealistic and more realistic conditions were programmed in. Supposedly the success rates of the pilots tested were much better. However, these tests could be suspect because the word gets around and eventually everyone knows what to look for and is ready for it.

One thing to consider, in the Navy and Marine Corps, aircraft mishap boards were headed and staffed by line aviators, one was usually the squadron safety officer who went to basic aircraft investigation school, and a flight surgeon. In really tricky and high visibility mishaps, a member of the Navy Safety Center could be requested to assist. Other than that, the skill of the investigation was left up to the mishap board. It is very possible the simulation tests done at Miramar were scientific, then again maybe not.

I think we've beat this topic to death. I'm willing to let it go.

Warm regards,
Pilgrim

[clem]

Why don't we wait untill PFC Lynch tells what happened?

[Blackhawk]

Not enough credible information.... :rolleyes:

[Al Thompson]

Clem - great point.

[riverdog]

The USMC write-up (http://www.usmc.mil/marinelink/mcn2000.nsf/main5/CE7BDEDE147F475685256CFD006B9F76?opendocument) is detailed regarding background on the raid. Yet another version, but it has some credibility.

[ahadams]

well she's already joined a pretty elite group just by getting the Purple Heart. I'd just wait to see what they're able to document, before hypothesizing exactly what else they might give her.

On the other hand, as someone pointed out on another board: the girl is from West Virginia and the Iraqis only thought they knew what a blood feud was before now! :-)

[SKN]

The 0-6 commanding Landstuhl Medical facility has just detailed her injuries as a head laceration, fractures to her right arm, both legs, right ankle and foot, and lower lumbar spine. Mechanisms of injury undetermined, no gunshot or knife wounds.

[joeislove]

While we're handing out medals, we should give something to that Iraqi lawyer that went to the Marines with maps of the hospital and guard rotation schedules. That was gutsy as hell, since he risked getting shot, at best, by Iraqi forces, if they found out what he was doing.

[Double Naught Spy]

I have to agree with Detritus on this. What is the big friggin' deal about Lynch? Okay, so she didn't want to be taken alive. Okay so she fired her weapon at the enemy, several of them. Okay, she may, MAY have hit some. They act like her fight to survive is extraordinary in some manner or that she is somehow unique or special.

I mean no disrespect, but Lynch is in the military in a war situation in a foreign country. I would have expected no less from her or any of her comrads and their sex is completely unimportant.

The accolades being bestowed on Lynch by the press, general public, and even the military is not really justified in that by accounts so far, she was doing nothing different than her comrads during battle. Just because she is a female doesn't mean squat and she is no more or no less of a hero than any of her male or female counterparts. SHE is a soldier and performing her duty. Anything less would have been wrong.

[M1911]

Reports from Germany this morning state that she was neither shot nor stabbed. So, were all of her injuries the result of torture?

[JohnBT]

I just read an article in the morning paper on the Iraqi lawyer who saw her in the hospital while visiting his wife. He said he saw Lynch slapped twice by a soldier while she was in a hospital bed and eventually he got in to speak to her briefly. He then walked 6 miles before finding U.S. forces to tell his story to.

Then, over a two day period, he walked back to the hospital TWICE to count soldiers(41 IIRC) and make maps. He also had to get his wife to a relative's house for safety - and their house was searched by the Iraqis at some point. His wife also provided a provided a map before they were evacuated from the area.

Congratulations to everyone involved.

John

[RustyHammer]

FYI ... here is a picture of her BEFORE the war in her "civies" ... hubba, hubba !

[riverdog]

My totally uninformed guess would be rifle butt strikes either at the scene of the ambush or later ...

[p35]

The articles I saw said that this Iraqi lawyer snuck back & forth between the American lines and the hospital many times over several days to get the military the intel it needed to pull off the rescue. Now he's in a refugee camp in southern Iraq. I hope the powers that be recognize that we owe him a lot more than a tent in a refugee camp- I would be proud to have him as an American citizen if that's what he wants.

[joeislove]

I'd be even happier to see him have an Iraq where he can feel safe and provide a happy future for his family.

My main concern about this war is and has been since the beginning: What are we going to do after the shooting stops?

Over a hundred years ago, we fought another war for regime change. Cuba became America's toilet for about 50 years, and we ended up with a Communist dictator that managed to bring the world to the brink of nuclear destruction. I'm afraid that if Iraq receives the same treatment, we'll have an even bigger problem than Saddam Hussein in a few years.

[Al Thompson]

Joe, Germany, Japan and Italy were conquered 48 years ago. I think we've got the formula down if there's political will to implement it.

[joeislove]

Al, I hope you're right. The future security of the world revolves around stabilizing the Middle East, the way I see it. If we leave a mess in Iraq after this, that's gonna be mucho bad mojo. However, if Iraq is rebuilt, and given enough time to build a healthy economy and a free society, I think a lot of the problems in that region will begin to evaporate. Maybe that's a naive viewpoint on my part, but that's my hope.

I'm just afraid of might happen. Poverty makes suicide bombers, more than anything else. After all, even though our record with the nations you mentioned is pretty good. However, there are some other parts of the world where our history is less admirable.

[Bulldozer]

CBS News reports that nine of the 11 bodies found in the hospital where Pfc. Jessica Lynch was being held are believed to be Americans. Nothing has been said yet about the identities of those Americans. The Kansas City Star reports an Iraqi civilian, who saw Lynch slapped while in the hospital, revealed her location to American troops.

My apologies if this is a duplicate thread. I wonder how many will be found to have execution-style gunshot wounds to the head?

I can only hope that we prosecute this atrocity with extreme prejudice. Perhaps with several variants of Rules 7.62 and 5.56 and 9.19.

[benewton]

Not having kids ourselves, and having a very low threshold with the hip-hop set, I'm not all that sure about how the newest crop operates.

But I do know how we would have operated "back in my time": how could you possibly prosecute the perp when he'd taken 30 rounds of 5.56 at 10 feet?

I don't think our current crop'll much less, although they could probably get more inventive then the "excaped out of the chopper side door at 2000 feet" thing.

In any case, I hope so. No trials should be necessary.

[Blackhawk]

I don't think more than 5% of the words telling the PFC Lynch story have been written yet.

[benewton]

Blackhawk, I agree.

I also strongly suspect that the tale of her personal war was/is propaganda, if for no other reason than all who I'd believe are dead via their captors hands, so far as I can tell.

Neither is there any point in considering yesterday's comments about no bullet or stab wounds. And a back injury is the first to be repaired by the docs?

I sounds more like a vehicle driving over a mine, followed up by a "cleanup" ambush, to me.

But what I do remember from a couple of days back, and, of course, no follow up reports, is "remains", funny how we lost the much harder, bodies, found in shallow graves...

And there are those 9 of 11 found with her, only dead...

Were I "back then", and serving, that'd be enough for me to ensure no guards lived through capture.

And, I was a medic.

[Blackhawk]

benewton, your mine theory makes sense.

What I believe:

1. She was rescued due to the efforts of an heroic Iraqi leading to a masterful operation by Rangers and SEALs.

2. She was injured prior to rescue either as a result of the incident leading to her capture or post capture assaults.

3. She did not give any accounts of what happened to her to any media representatives.

And I wonder how a soldier firing on a hostile force could survive being overrun without being killed by that force under the rule "display hostile intent toward a military force and you die."

I expect that Iraqi witnesses and participants in the incident will be forthcoming....

[benewton]

I suspect her age and condition would aid her in her surrender, even given the official report, although I don't think I want to consider what would happen to her after they got their hands on her.

Still, to me, while I don't think that women should be anywhere near a combat theater, I don't like what they've done, accepting the reports as issued, to our POWs.

That said, I also don't like the implications of officially issued propaganda.

Ah well, I'm in favor of the war, want theirs dead and ours to come home safe, and in one functional piece.

And, bad taste in my mouth about the whole issue or not, I've gotta get out on the tractor and clear 6" of global warming!

[Blackhawk]

even given the official reportIs there an "official report" already? I'd like to read it.

[benewton]

Well, maybe not official, since so far as I know the Pentagon hasn't released anything, but let me rephrase and say the published reports, of which there are many.

The whole episode just seems a bit wierd to me.

[Blackhawk]

Thanks, that's what I thought.the published reports, of which there are manyYes, and they seem to stem from one printed by the Washington Post, which seems to be the first to allege that she was shot and stabbed and fired on the enemy until exhausting her ammo.

Sadly, the WP has as much credibilty with me as the NYT and Iraqi TV. They all seem to make up stuff with no compunctions or regard for the facts.

The "official" line is that she has 2 broken legs, a broken arm, fractures in her right foot and ankle plus spinal injuries without stating how she acquired those injuries.

Through absolutely no fault of her own or input to the hyperbole, the media is hoisting her up on a pedestal as a natural "G.I. Jane/Ramboette." If the media reported "facts" don't pan out, the media will be heading the mob to tar and feather her while impugning every thought she ever had.

She survived 9 days as a POW of the most despotic and evil regime of our time, and for that she should be honored, decorated, and revered. The TRUTH is awesome, and it doesn't need embellishing by the corrupt U.S. media or any PC squishbrain looking for something that may not exist here.

[benewton]

Essentially I concur with your comments.

I didn't mean to imply that she had any role in the current media circus. In fact, discussing the whole mess with my wife, I pointed out that given what probably happened to her, were I her, I'd prefer my name and face not be known to anyone, and my circumstances be a very closely guarded secret. She agreed, and it's a rare event when I come even close to understanding the female subspecies.

As I guess I didn't make clear, the media event itself is the issue, not the person involved. Were it not her, it would be someone else.

I think it more probable that the media will simply ignore her if the story eventually falls through, although I think there'll be enough new new news that they'll simply ignore it.

In any case, I think she should take advantage of the scholarships offered, since the cat is already out of the bag, and, given the public's attention span, her captivity will be forgotten long before she can PCS.

As for the decorations and so forth,I'm not at all sure I agree. Merely being captured doesn't seem to me to be such a major exhibition of courage, at least if you're a male soldier. As for surviving her time as a POW, what else would you expect any person to do, expecially in a war that is expected by all to be very short?

Basically, I don't think women should be anywhere near combat operations, and that they should serve, if desired, at the theater level, because, as she's shown, combat support can easily result in combat casualties. But if you do support women in the line, then you have to ensure that there is a single class of soldier, and, if you will not support the same level of decoration, honor, and reverence for the male subspecies returning from the same situation, then you'll simply kill the effectiveness of our fighters.

As for the WP, NYT, LAT, and, being from the Northeast, the Boston Globe, they serve a useful purpose, and you should be kinder.

No matter how much you read, there are multiple issues that you have to vote on, at least around here, that you really aren't "up" on.

At that point, you read whichever of the above mention rags local to you, and vote against their point of view. 99% of the time you'll have made the correct vote!

[riverdog]

Not having the benefit of reading the published articles, I'm sure the PFC's debrief report will be much closer to the truth than that of the WP. Whether or not she fired her M-16 until bolt lock and details on how and when her arm, legs ankle and back came to be injured can wait until the details are released by the Army. Other info the Army will be interested in learning is how her nine comrades came to be killed and details about the five POWs that were taken. Personally, I think we should all wait and stop feeding the speculation.

[benewton]

I can go with that.

[Blackhawk]

As for the decorations and so forth,I'm not at all sure I agree. Merely being captured doesn't seem to me to be such a major exhibition of courage, at least if you're a male soldier. She was a POW, and she is entitled to the POW Medal, which has nothing to do with exhibiting courage.

If her injuries resulted from hostile enemy action such as a mine, she's entitled to the Purple Heart, which quite often has nothing to do with exhibiting courage either. I have no idea whether injuries inflicted by the enemy while a POW entitles a soldier to the PH, but there's a lot of politics involved with awarding decorations. :rolleyes:

Since she was there, she's also entitled to the "Enduring Freedom" campaign ribbon/medal whatever that's going to be whenever it's issued.As for the WP, NYT, LAT, and, being from the Northeast, the Boston Globe, they serve a useful purpose, and you should be kinder.
You're right. Several people have caged birds and untrained puppies. I should be kinder, but don't hold your breath! :D you read whichever of the above mention rags local to you, and vote against their point of view. 99% of the time you'll have made the correct vote!Sadly, that's all too true.... :rolleyes:

[Daniel T]

Archer, how does that crow taste?

[CZ-75]

The accolades being bestowed on Lynch by the press, general public, and even the military is not really justified in that by accounts so far,

Not to insult PFC Lynch, but this rings a bell...Chief Moose anyone? Pure unwarranted media hype, possibly intentionally done to elevate a minority.

[benewton]

I'd not heard of the POW medal, but then, since I got out in '74, I doubt they'd have bothered to point it out to me. The PH,for either combat or POW "obtained" injury I can easily support, and she'd have the campaign ribbon in any case.

But I'd read of Silver Stars, CMH and so forth, and I've got to draw my line somewhere.

As for the papers, they'll exist no matter what, and, while I'm not a treehugger, reasonable recycling seems like a good deal.

Since I read them on line, there's no waste paper, and, as I said, they do perform a useful service, although I'm sure it's not the one they intended.

[Blackhawk]

But I'd read of Silver Stars, CMH and so forth, and I've got to draw my line somewhere.At this point, consideration of her to receive any of the hero medals is ridiculous. They require exhibition of conspicuous gallantry, which requires witnesses or incontrovertible physical evidence, both of which are lacking here.

[benewton]

My point, exactly, but, as you mentioned, there are political factors in decorations, and, considering that this war is a very political event, the burr is under my saddle on this one.

[hops]

Excellent points all. The hero in all of this is the Iraqi lawyer who really risked his own and family's neck, in comittng a treasonous act against Iraq's regime, yet the most of all humane acts in mans most inhumane endevour. He deserves a freedom medal for his act in this drama.

I would think US gov. org could put him in better accomodations than the refugee camp for his valour.

[riverdog]

Actually, IF she did in fact keep shooting until bolt-lock and took a few down before she was over-run, a Bronze Star is not out of line. Then again, IF she sustained those broken bones in the vehicle and not directly at the hands of the local thugs (ie, butt strokes), maybe those medals for Valor aren't justified. Maybe this, maybe that, probably something in between. I won't be surprised with either finding and won't begrudge her any medals that happen to go her way.

Regardless, she was an ideal object for a POW rescue effort and the Iraqis (the Doctor, the Lawyer and his wife the nurse) who helped in that effort deserve the thanks of a grateful nation (Chemical Ali's very nice home in Basra would be a nice start in getting their lives back together :)

Just another day for the Marines and Spec Op guys ;)

[riverdog]

Mohammed, being a lawyer could probably do with a job in the new Iraqi government. I hear there are some job openings available :) That might make his transition a bit more bearable.

[Navy joe]

PFC Lynch done good. Gender should not matter to us or whackjobs in Washington. The real story here though is from the world's oldest civilized land we finally have history's first account of a lawyer doing something decent...

[Sir Galahad]

Someone said "...poverty makes suicide bombers..." Not true. Fanaticism makes suicide bombers. Were the Japanese kamakazi of WW2 "impoverished"? If poverty makes suicide bombers, why are there no suicide bombers coming up from Mexico and Central America? "Poverty makes suicide bombers" is a morally bankrupt slogan to justify their actions. Sounds good on NPR to liberals. But in reality, it is religiously-motivated fanaticism (which is the most powerful) that creates suicide bombers. Liberals don't want to believe that because they don't believe that individual people are responsible for their actions. They belong to the excuse-of-the-month club where everything BUT the perpetrator is responsible for a crime.

[Ed Brunner]

I heard today that Mohammad is coming to the USA as his reward.

I agree that there is a lot of hype about this young woman/soldier, and that is to be expected. Everybody can get some mileage out of it. Until we know otherwise, I would rather believe that she shot a load of them and went down swinging.

[Spark]

Firing until you run out of ammo and continuing to resist is a true testament to the warrior spirit.

We don't know what happened exactly. Regardless, other than getting captured, she done good.

She survived when everyone else died (or is missing). She was wounded, severely. She persevered until rescued. I don't know what else you could expect from her.

Kevin

[ballistic gelatin]

I would like to have been one of the team members that went in to get her.

[David]

The Pentagon has just confirmed that 8 of the bodies found in the rescue of Pfc. Jessica Lynch were from her same unit!

A total of 11 bodies were found, so far the Pentagon has only identified the 8 from her own unit.

:( :( :(

Here is the link to this sad story:

http://www.boston.com/dailynews/095/wash/Pentagon_Bodies_found_in_raid_:.shtml

[Slotback]

Very tragic. I have the feeling that in our future wars, our troops will have to be to fight to the death because our enemies will in fact execute prisoners.

[waterdog]

RIP

waterdog

[Al Thompson]

The question now is - what happened to the ones shown on camera? :(

[S_O_Laban]

At least for the families the waiting is over.:( May their family and friends find peace.

[Leatherneck]

:mad: :mad: :mad: :mad: :mad: :mad: :mad:
Semper Fidelis, American soldiers.

TC
TFL Survivor

[Bainx]

THE NEWS MEDIA IS TRYING TO MAKE HER INTO AN AUDEY MURPHY

SHE AIN'T NO AUDEY MURPHY

PLAIN AND SIMPLE

[Detritus]

Sir Galahad, you are wrong. I am a flaming liberal and I fully understand the power of fanatasism, I see it all the time in right wing conservatives. I find your blanket stereotyping of liberals (read liberty, the people who believe in "liberty to" not "liberty from") as being unaware of when smoke is being blown up our rear. I know disinformation when I see it. You are talking to a former Viet Nam Era vet, a gun owner, a registered voter, a highly political being, a firm supporter of first and second amendment rights, and a dyed in the wool liberal. A liberal who believes in your liberty to spout your opinions no matter how much I may dislike them and also my liberty to respond. I take full responsibility for my actions and expect others to do the same.

Angua, Detritus' significant other

[XLMiguel]

Someone said "...poverty makes suicide bombers..." Not true. Fanaticism makes suicide bombers.

Verily.

If that were true, howcum the 9//11 terrorists were mostly college educated, middle/upper middle class fanatics? I find it easier to believe that people without hope, mixed in with some very warpped and twisted ideology become suicide bomers. Invariably, it is an entirely idfferent kind of "poverty", and the ideology always tries to make it someone else's fault, as opposed to a product of their own culture and corrupt 'leadership'.

It is the same sickness that allows them to abuse and torture POW's in general, and small female POW's in particular, all the while claiming to follow the Geneva Convention.

[jmbg29]

A little bit back on topic if no one minds too much.

Details Released of Lynch Rescue

Saturday, April 05, 2003



CAMP AS SAYLIYAH, Qatar — Frightened and seriously wounded, a 19-year-old supply clerk who was held by Iraq for more than a week at first hid under a sheet when a team of U.S. military commandos stormed into her hospital room.

"Jessica Lynch," called out an American soldier, approaching her bed. "We are United States soldiers and we're here to protect you and take you home."

Peering from behind the sheet as he removed his helmet, she looked up and said, "I'm an American soldier, too."

In the first details released about the daring rescue of Pfc. Lynch, a Central Command spokesman told a briefing Saturday that a team of Navy Seals, Marine commandos, Air Force pilots and Army Rangers worked with U.S. Special Forces in the rescue Tuesday in Nasiriyah.

While troops engaged the Iraqis in another part of the city, the team persuaded an Iraqi doctor to lead them to Lynch, said Air Force Maj. Gen. Gene Renuart.

Lynch, now recuperating at the military's Landstuhl Regional Medical Center in Germany, had suffered a head wound and fractures in her right arm, both legs, her right foot and ankle, and an injury to her spine.

The rescue team quickly evaluated her medical condition, secured her to a stretcher and carried her to a waiting helicopter, Renuart said.

"Jessica held up her hand and grabbed the Ranger doctor's hand, and held onto it for the entire time, and said, 'Please don't let anybody leave me,'" Renuart said. "It was clear she knew where she was and didn't want to be left anywhere near the enemy."

Meanwhile, the Iraqi doctor told the team there were remains of other U.S. forces nearby, and they were led to a burial site. Because they had not brought shovels, Renuart said, the team dug up the bodies with their hands.

"They wanted to do that very rapidly, so they could race the sun and be off the site before the sun came up," Renuart said. "It's a great testament to the will and desire of coalition forces to bring their own home."

Renuart did not shed any new light on how Lynch sustained her wounds — whether she was injured in captivity or when the 507th Maintenance Company was ambushed March 23 when they made a wrong turn in Nasiriyah.

Eight of the dead soldiers found during the rescue were members of the ambushed unit, Renuart said. The ninth was a soldier from a forward support group of the Army's Third Infantry Division, he said. All have been transported back to the United States.

Lynch's family in West Virginia said doctors had determined she'd been shot. They found two entry and exit wounds "consistent with low-velocity, small-caliber rounds," said her mother, Deadra Lynch.

She had a back operation Thursday and surgery for other broken bones Friday, said the commander of the hospital, Col. David Rubenstein. A friend is at her bedside and although she's still being fed intravenously, she's drawn up a list of her favorite foods for the hospital: turkey, steamed carrots and applesauce.

"Her emotional state is extremely good. She's jovial. She's talking with staff," Rubenstein said.

Lynch's family was to fly Saturday from from Charleston, W.Va., to Germany to see her.

While the U.S. team was in the hospital, Renuart said, they also found a weapons cache and a large-scale sandbox model in the basement that accurately depicted U.S. and Iraqi positions in Nasiriyah.

[jmbg29]

A little bit about how they were found is in this story. :( :( :(

Details Released of Lynch Rescue

Saturday, April 05, 2003



CAMP AS SAYLIYAH, Qatar — Frightened and seriously wounded, a 19-year-old supply clerk who was held by Iraq for more than a week at first hid under a sheet when a team of U.S. military commandos stormed into her hospital room.

"Jessica Lynch," called out an American soldier, approaching her bed. "We are United States soldiers and we're here to protect you and take you home."

Peering from behind the sheet as he removed his helmet, she looked up and said, "I'm an American soldier, too."

In the first details released about the daring rescue of Pfc. Lynch, a Central Command spokesman told a briefing Saturday that a team of Navy Seals, Marine commandos, Air Force pilots and Army Rangers worked with U.S. Special Forces in the rescue Tuesday in Nasiriyah.

While troops engaged the Iraqis in another part of the city, the team persuaded an Iraqi doctor to lead them to Lynch, said Air Force Maj. Gen. Gene Renuart.

Lynch, now recuperating at the military's Landstuhl Regional Medical Center in Germany, had suffered a head wound and fractures in her right arm, both legs, her right foot and ankle, and an injury to her spine.

The rescue team quickly evaluated her medical condition, secured her to a stretcher and carried her to a waiting helicopter, Renuart said.

"Jessica held up her hand and grabbed the Ranger doctor's hand, and held onto it for the entire time, and said, 'Please don't let anybody leave me,'" Renuart said. "It was clear she knew where she was and didn't want to be left anywhere near the enemy."

Meanwhile, the Iraqi doctor told the team there were remains of other U.S. forces nearby, and they were led to a burial site. Because they had not brought shovels, Renuart said, the team dug up the bodies with their hands.

"They wanted to do that very rapidly, so they could race the sun and be off the site before the sun came up," Renuart said. "It's a great testament to the will and desire of coalition forces to bring their own home."

Renuart did not shed any new light on how Lynch sustained her wounds — whether she was injured in captivity or when the 507th Maintenance Company was ambushed March 23 when they made a wrong turn in Nasiriyah.

Eight of the dead soldiers found during the rescue were members of the ambushed unit, Renuart said. The ninth was a soldier from a forward support group of the Army's Third Infantry Division, he said. All have been transported back to the United States.

Lynch's family in West Virginia said doctors had determined she'd been shot. They found two entry and exit wounds "consistent with low-velocity, small-caliber rounds," said her mother, Deadra Lynch.

She had a back operation Thursday and surgery for other broken bones Friday, said the commander of the hospital, Col. David Rubenstein. A friend is at her bedside and although she's still being fed intravenously, she's drawn up a list of her favorite foods for the hospital: turkey, steamed carrots and applesauce.

"Her emotional state is extremely good. She's jovial. She's talking with staff," Rubenstein said.

Lynch's family was to fly Saturday from from Charleston, W.Va., to Germany to see her.

While the U.S. team was in the hospital, Renuart said, they also found a weapons cache and a large-scale sandbox model in the basement that accurately depicted U.S. and Iraqi positions in Nasiriyah.


Notice where the barbarian :cuss:er :cuss:ers keep their war models.:fire: :fire:

[ahadams]

http://www.cnn.com/2003/WORLD/meast/04/04/sprj.irq.lynch/index.html

Rescued POW was shot, doctors tell family



Parents flying to Germany to be with daughter in hospital


PALESTINE, West Virginia (CNN) --Doctors told the family of Army Pfc.
Jessica Lynch on Friday that the former prisoner of war suffered gunshot
wounds, a family spokesman said.

That contradicted earlier reports from a spokesman at Landstuhl Regional
Medical Center in Germany -- where Lynch is recovering -- that the rescued
POW did not appear to have been shot or stabbed.

"During the process of examinations on her right arm and left leg, it was
discovered [that] she had small-caliber, low-velocity entry and exit
wounds," family spokesman Dan Little said.

Lynch was moved to an intensive care unit Friday because doctors wanted to
monitor her condition more closely, Little said. He said she had a fever, an
elevated heart rate and a "bit of infection," but those symptoms showed
"rapid improvement" during the day.

Doctors told the 19-year-old's parents, Greg and Dee, that her wounds and
the conditions in an Iraqi hospital near Nasiriya where she was being held
might have caused the infection.

Lynch had pins and bolts placed in her broken right arm and both legs, which
were also fractured, during operations Friday, Little said. She underwent
surgery to repair a fractured disc in her back the day before.

Lynch's parents will leave for Germany on Saturday, Little said.

Lynch and seven other members of the 507th Maintenance Company were listed
as missing after they made a wrong turn near Nasiriya and drove into an
ambush March 23. Five other members of the unit were shown on Iraqi TV and
are listed as prisoners of war, two were killed in action and at least four
were wounded.

Acting on information that government sources said was obtained by the CIA
from more than one Iraqi source, U.S. Special Forces led a team of Marines,
Army Rangers, Navy SEALs and Air Force pilots and controllers into enemy
fire at a hospital in Nasiriya to rescue the Army private. (Full story)

The forces fought their way into the hospital where Lynch was being held and
whisked her away on a stretcher.

Landstuhl spokesman Col. David Rubenstein said he could not say whether
Lynch's suffered her injuries during the ambush or while she was in Iraqi
custody.

He said she was being debriefed by repatriation teams that would provide
medical and psychological care as long as she needs it.

[CZ-75]

During the process of examinations on her right arm and left leg, it was discovered [that] she had small-caliber, low-velocity entry and exit
wounds,"

This mean an officer shot her with a .32 auto or the like to torture her?

[David Scott]

Hey, she was a soldier. She was in a combat zone. She wa shooting at the Iraqi troops. Why would anyone be surprised if she took a hit?

And no, a small caliber low velocity wound doesn't necessarily mean somone "shot her with a .32 auto or the like to torture her". It could have been a .223 fired from a long way away, or a round that had already gone through some obstruction and shed its velocity there.

[justice4all]

It strikes me as odd that yesterday we were told she hadn't been shot or stabbed, presumably after she'd been thoroughly examined by competent medical personnel, yet today we are told she was shot.

[Bainx]

"Lynch's family in West Virginia said doctors had determined she'd been shot. They found two entry and exit wounds "consistent with low-velocity, small-caliber rounds," said her mother, Deadra Lynch."

Folks, I'm as totally confused as you are. NOW, they are telling us that she did suffer gun shot wounds???

Ibbda, ibbda, ibbda, ibbda [fingertips plucking lips]

[Bulldozer]

22 caliber perhaps?

[VaughnT]

I'm finding it hard to believe that First-World doctors would miss a bullet hole in a patient.

Isn't the first order of business to strip her naked and go over every square inch to inspect for wounds (cuts, scrapes, needle marks, bruises, ruptures, sores, cysts, pustules, ad infinitum)?

And where is this wound supposed to be? Was it in some nook or cranny that somehow escaped detection? I've heard of junkies shooting up between their toes to hide the tracks, but a bullet hole should be "self-evident". Weren't they curious as to why there was a puddle of blood under her where this wound was constantly leaking?

Are there any doctors in the house that could explain the protocols and procedures in a case like this? What would be the first thing you would do after immediately securing the patient and making sure vital signs are stable?

[VaughnT]

I find it hard to believe that she wasn't tortured/raped by the enemy.

A story such as this, though run through with propaganda from our own as it might be, shows clearly that there is mettle in our younger generation. To have lasted and endured as she did, with no hope in sight, is a sign of great internal strength and I'm glad to count her as an American.

[Jim March]

I can think of one good reason they missed bullet holes, and it ain't pretty: she has all sorts of fairly minor cuts/bruises/scrapes/etc all over, and the holes just blended in with the general carnage.

If that's what happened...she was probably a torture victim.

(Note: as a biker, I've taken enough damage at times that I had wounds big enough that they'd have masked minor bullet holes at first glance.)

[444]

Initially, I could see how it wouldn't be hard to miss a bullet wound, especially if it was a small caliber wound. But I find it hard to believe that any hospital would miss a bullet wound. But that isn't the case here, they initally said that she was shot, then she wasn't, now she was. Since there were fractures, and surgery this seems very strange to me.
I hate to be a skeptic, but this story is pretty dramatic. I would love to believe every word of it. In fact as I mentioned in a previous thread, I had tears in my eyes when I heard of her rescue. But if I had to sit down and write a story of a really dramatic, spectacular movie script, I would have come up with a story exactly like this.
In this war where we recieve minute by minute coverage, I find it hard to believe that when these people were initally captured, we didn't hear anything about a firefight where our guys fought to the last round of ammunition. There is no question in my mind that someone investigated this incident. And I would be very surprised if the investigators found piles of brass, rifles with bolts locked to the rear and empty magazines, etc. We would have heard about the terrific fight put up by the GIs prior to capture. But I didn't hear anything like this, until a week later when the only survivor of the encouter was rescued.

[Steve in PA]

Don't you think she would have told them......someone....anyone that she had been shot????? Whether it was during combat or as torture?????

The whole story stinks. :scrutiny:

[LawDog]

While troops engaged the Iraqis in another part of the city, the team persuaded an Iraqi doctor to lead them to Lynch, said Air Force Maj. Gen. Gene Renuart.

:D Them snake-eating types can be almighty persuasive when they get around to it.

Because they had not brought shovels, Renuart said, the team dug up the bodies with their hands.

"It ain't about war, and it ain't about the killin'. It's about the guy next to you."

They found two entry and exit wounds "consistent with low-velocity, small-caliber rounds," said her mother, Deadra Lynch.

If I remember correctly, Iraqi brass and other important types get to carry .32- or .380-ish kind of pistol as a mark of rank.

Again, one of the days the Media is going to have their ducks in a row before reporting on a story, and it'll be the death of me.

she's still being fed intravenously

That quote, if true, tells me all I need to know about her captivity -- and her captors. :fire:

LawDog

[LawDog]

Angua, shouldn't you be chasing Carrot Ironfoundersson instead of Detritus?

*ahem* Minor thread veer there, folks.

Anyhoo, remember that we're dealing with the Media, and the Media couldn't get their facts straight if you spoon-fed the details to them.

LawDog

[LawDog]

Multiple threads merged.

LawDog

[Mike Irwin]

Poverty doesn't make suicide bombers.

Fanaticism to a cause (sp?) makes suicide bombers.

Poverty can direct someone to a cause, which converts them into a fanatic, with the final result being that they become a suicide bomber...

[hops]

Anyone else catch that 'press conference' with PFC's Lynch's family as they departed for Germany? I caught it by chance.

I was just livid with the typical dumba** questions. Her dad seemed pretty choked up already. But the stupid question about - how do you feel about the other 8 dead soldiers found and their families? Does it really take rocket science to perhaps have a clue how he might feel about them? Arrr!!!!

Appeared he did not know that it was confirmed they were Americans.

Ended that 'press conference' right then and there. The gov.org officials just gathered the family up led them to the plane.

[ahadams]

If you ask me to document this, well I can't, so take or leave it as you will:

apparently iraqi 'interrogation' methods have for some time included strapping the person to a chair that is in front of a suitable backstop and then using a low velocity .22 to break bones one at a time in order to 'encourage cooperation'.

the question in some people's minds is why they let her live after doing that - best guess is that our guys were close enough that no one in charge wanted to take the chance of being captured and then subsequently fingered by his own subordinates for popping her one between the eyes. Gee, I wonder how they figured we Americans would react to this? :fire: :fire: :fire:

description of torture chambers of a similar nature found elsewhere can be found in this article:
http://www.sundayherald.com/32893

[LoneStranger]

ahadams,

Since we have not been informed yet as to where and when the others in her group died you could make a working hypothesis that she might have been the last in line. Female, young, looks to be impressionable to watching others go before, allows a better chance at getting propaganda coup.

We do not know what occurred at this point in time and any attempt to take a stand using idle speculation can only lead to problems on our part.

I am glad that she has been recovered and I believe that the after action reports will make for interesting reading. She has my best wishes at this time cause that is all I can offer.

[ahadams]

lonestranger - I agree I'm glad she made it, and your hypothesis is certainly possible. One thing that gives me hope is that we've already declared that the US will handle the war crimes trials, and not let the UN mealy mouth their way out of it. Some of that could make Nuremburg almost look petty by comparison.