better mouse gun 22 lr or 25acp


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s&w 24
November 10, 2005, 11:04 PM
If you are comparing 22lr quik-shok ammo with 25 acp magsafe ammo wich is better as compared in a taurus auto or a beretta auto ?

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cslinger
November 10, 2005, 11:07 PM
Well ballistics favor the .22 but reliability favors the centerfire of the .25 ACP. Have you considered a sharp stick. :neener:

f4t9r
November 10, 2005, 11:13 PM
I would prefer the 22
They have so many Different kinds of ammo these days there are alot of options with the 22 cheaper ammo than the 25
Do not have official proof on which is better To really answer your question only that I would prefer the twenty two between the two choices

lyricsdad
November 10, 2005, 11:21 PM
i have fired numerous cci ammo mini mags and stingers, none have ever failed me.. if your going to use a .22 use cci higher end stuff.

1911_Mitch
November 10, 2005, 11:59 PM
I think you would shoot it more (read practice) with the .22lr.

.25 ammo is expensive.

MICHAEL T
November 11, 2005, 12:50 AM
I want 1 of each. 22 for practice and 25 for carry. With a 45 as a back up.

Dr.Rob
November 11, 2005, 03:55 AM
I don't think I'd use a frangible in either caliber.

pauli
November 11, 2005, 10:47 AM
oh come on, you never know when you'll be called upon to pop a blister in defense of your life.

(personally, i'd use the hottest 22 ammo that was safe in the gun, and skip the 25)

Pilot
November 11, 2005, 10:51 AM
I chose the .22 over the .25 for my mouse gun, a Beretta 21A. I really like it and use CCI Minimags which feed reliably and always go bang. It HATES cheap ammo, so I only use the Minimags.

cordex
November 11, 2005, 11:09 AM
I picked the .22LR in a Beretta 21a.

Of course, I hardly ever carry it anymore since I bought my KelTec P3AT which is actually more concealable than the Beretta.

mtnbkr
November 11, 2005, 11:56 AM
Between those two calibers, I'd go with the 22lr. It'll be cheaper to practice with and you'll want that practice time in order to be an excellent shot with it.

I've shot the Taurus version in 22lr, it's not a bad gun. I'm trying to justify one to myself as a cheap plinker.

Unless you're absolutely determined to get that particular platform or one of those calibers, I think it's better to go with a P32 or P3AT. You get more power in a similar size/weight package.

Chris

Onmilo
November 11, 2005, 12:54 PM
I gave up on this argument and bought a Kel-Tec P-32 in .32 acp.
The Kel-Tec/Seecamp/North American Guardian,(pick one), have pretty well made .22/.25 mouse guns obsolete.
Dick Casull and North American make the very smallest pistols.
Both are .22s, both are revolvers, neither can be speed reloaded and as so often been said, these are the guns of absolute last resort and Winchester Super X hollowpoints are about the most reliable ammunition I have found for guns of this type.

Moonclip
November 11, 2005, 06:52 PM
Both, 22lr for practice, 25acp for carry. I have 22short Beretta 950's as understudies to my 25acp ones. Stilll need a 25acp 21 to keep my 22lr one company.

Zundfolge
November 11, 2005, 07:03 PM
take the .22 and double it.


special or magnum ... your choice :D




I'll echo the other sentiments and say .22lr over .25acp because the only .25acp I've ever shot couldn't make it through the magazine without jamming.

Moonclip
November 11, 2005, 07:09 PM
Stramge your 25 jammed so much as 25acp was designed to get around the feeding problems pocket pistols in 22 rimfire can have. Though many of the Jennings and other type pistols can be jam o matics.

Also, I think many people confuse 22lr rifle length barrel ballistics with those out of pocket pistols and 2" barrels. If anything, 25acp is bigger and has a heavier bullet. And while the stinger is a option for the 22's, the 25acp has the glaser and mag safe option the 22's don't.

Wedge
November 11, 2005, 07:15 PM
take the .22 and double it.


special or magnum ... your choice :D




I'll echo the other sentiments and say .22lr over .25acp because the only .25acp I've ever shot couldn't make it through the magazine without jamming.

Yeah, but isn't it better to have two nice shiny 22s instead of just an old rusty 44? ;)

Not to hijack the thread too much, but what platform is the original poster looking at (just the Taurus or Beretta tip up barrels) and is there a "better" platform?

MrTuffPaws
November 11, 2005, 07:23 PM
Stramge your 25 jammed so much as 25acp was designed to get around the feeding problems pocket pistols in 22 rimfire can have. Though many of the Jennings and other type pistols can be jam o matics.

Also, I think many people confuse 22lr rifle length barrel ballistics with those out of pocket pistols and 2" barrels. If anything, 25acp is bigger and has a heavier bullet. And while the stinger is a option for the 22's, the 25acp has the glaser and mag safe option the 22's don't.


I really don't think a glasser or magsafe is going to do much out of such a short barrel, but I may be wrong.

Zundfolge
November 11, 2005, 08:05 PM
Stramge your 25 jammed so much as 25acp was designed to get around the feeding problems pocket pistols in 22 rimfire can have.
To be fair my only experience with .25 is with a Raven.

Y...what platform is the original poster looking at (just the Taurus or Beretta tip up barrels) and is there a "better" platform?
Good question. I'm assuming something like a Taurus or Beretta with the tip up barrel since he said "mouse gun"

Of course I'm thinking there are plenty of .32acp pistols in the same size range as those (or for that matter a KelTec P3AT).

LightningJoe
November 11, 2005, 10:48 PM
.22 LR or .25 ACP out of a mousegun are probably about the same in terms of wounding ability. Both are better than BBs. These guns work as often as they do in self-defense situations mainly because of the handgun's reputation as a weapon capable of inflicting mortal injuries and because they make loud and alarming noises. .22 LR is much cheaper to shoot. Mouseguns are often not terribly accurate, so how much accuracy you'll develop shooting a .22 LR mousegun a lot is in question. I only carry my NAA mini-revolver when I'm in the swimming pool. Outside the pool, a Kel-Tec P32 or an NAA Guardian 32 is as low in caliber as you should ever need to go.

MachIVshooter
November 12, 2005, 01:39 AM
I really don't think a glasser or magsafe is going to do much out of such a short barrel, but I may be wrong.

That would be true of many other cartridges, but .25 ACp was built around guns with 2" tubes. All .25 ammo is designed to be used in very short barrels.

As to the original question, .25 hand-down. Here's why:

1: power) While .22 LR is typically higher in ballistics tables, remember that even handgun velocities for .22 LR are generally obtained using 6" barrels. Most published data is in 20" rifle barrels. Out of a 2.5" pistol, the .22 LR will not develop the 140-170 ft/lbs. it is often rated at. Power of the two cartridges from identicle barrel lengths is virtually identicle.

2: bullet design) .25 is far superior in this department. It uses standard JHP or FMJ bullets, while .22 LR uses externally lubricated heeled bullets of lead or copper wash lead.

3: Case design) Rimmed cartridges do not have a good track record for reliable feeding in autoloaders. The .25 is a semi-rimmed case that was specifically designed for small automatics.

4: quality) Even premium .22 LR is not as well made as .25 ACP ammo. Bottom line is, centerfire is better. I simply expect duds when shooting a .22. For a defensive gun, it is worth the price.


I have a couple of mouse guns in each caliber, and the .25's have proven much more reliable.

All that said, Speer has a 35 gr. JHP Gold Dot loading that is fairly potent as .25's go. I have tested them in ballistic clay and they performed quite well, though .25 ACP seldom delivers more than 7 or 8" of penetration- regardless of bullet type.

You would be much better served by a .380 and the little Kel-tec is as small as and lighter than many .22's and .25's.

22-rimfire
November 12, 2005, 04:01 PM
Given the choice, 22 LR or 25 ACP, there is no question which I would choose. It would be a small concealable 22 revolver such as S&W currently makes. For self protection, the 22 is better than nothing and repeated deaths from 22's demonstrates they can be very lethal.

That all being said, I keep 22's for general shooting and larger calibers for "bigger game". My preference in an auto is a 40S&W. My preference in a revolver is 357 for just about everything short of hunting whitetails. My house gun is a 3" GP100 loaded with 38spl +P's. Same reasoning would apply to a revolver for carry purposes, just smaller and lighter such as a S&W 442. The intended effective range is close-under 25 feet.

Manedwolf
November 13, 2005, 12:59 AM
If you are comparing 22lr quik-shok ammo with 25 acp magsafe ammo wich is better as compared in a taurus auto or a beretta auto ?

If it's for range or plinking, 22 tends to be cheaper. If it's for self-defense as a weapon of last resort, meaning you've somehow lost your larger CC gun or have this as your only weapon with a formal or light outfit, then it's likely that the target is very close and if it doesn't fire right the first time, you've had it.

In which case, every single article by "experts" I've ever read has said that the .25 ACP centerfire cartridge is inherently more reliable than the .22 rimfire, and in that case, the only words that I'd see are "more reliable." It's like choosing a parachute...if it doesn't work when you need it to the most, you don't get a second chance.

I have a Beretta Jetfire in .25acp, and love it. It's also suprisingly accurate even with the vestigial sights, good groupings.
Be nice if someone made a really, really, really tiny laser for the things, so you could at least be sure that the tiny bullets are going to go in the best place to do the most damage...

Tropical Z
November 13, 2005, 03:23 PM
.25acp is a waste of time,money,materials and effort.:barf:

Vern Humphrey
November 13, 2005, 03:48 PM
.25acp is a waste of time,money,materials and effort.:barf:

I -- or rather my wife -- has a Colt .25 in the safe. It's a nice collector's piece, but not a serious carry gun.

For the money, I'd get a used Colt Detective Special in .38 Special, or any of the small Smiths (except the ouch!guns.)

want to be gunsmith
November 13, 2005, 04:41 PM
The best is 22wm filled with of couse ratshot:neener: :evil: :neener: :what:

Spec ops Grunt
November 13, 2005, 05:46 PM
Wouldnt a .410 shotgun work?

tgfang
November 13, 2005, 08:46 PM
Taurus states in their manual for the TP22 that cartridges such as CCI Stingers should not be used in the gun. My TP22 feeds reliably for me with only one type of one brand of cartridge. I have not yet tried all of the available types of 22 LR cartridge.

Tom

confed sailor
November 14, 2005, 01:43 AM
25acp is a waste of time,money,materials and effort.

well, i wouldnt want to only have that, if it was a 25 or nothing, id love to have it. and my grandfather would have to disagree with you, his baby browning saved his life.

though i suppose you walk around in a russian greatcoat with a Wildey on your hip and a BFR in a shoulder rig :neener:

lbmii
November 14, 2005, 12:05 PM
I would use the traditional round nose FMJ in the 25 auto and the traditional 40 grain copper wash lead round nose for the 22.

The key to these calibers is penetration.

cookekdjr
November 14, 2005, 12:20 PM
I don't think I'd use a frangible in either caliber.
Me either.
something that goes "bang" every time in 40gr 22lr would be my choice.
Worried about 22lr reliability? Carry Eley brand.
-David

ngzcaz
November 14, 2005, 02:17 PM
The fact is, more people are killed in the U.S. w/ the
supposed dimunitive .22 than any other caliber. The reason for this is when it enters the human body it tumbles rather
than drill straight ahead like a large more powerful weapon
sometimes exiting the body with a hole the same size as
the entry wound. Its a whole other story should the respective
bullets hit bone or other solid matter.
NO, I'm not advocating a .22 as a primary choice of weapons for personal carry. If anyone has ever shot a 2 x 4
piece of lumber and looked at the exit hole, they may want to change their mind and carry a .22 instead of a sharp stick.
As an example I used to take my personal weapon, a Bersa
Model 23 in .22 caliber and put 9 shots that could be covered by a large fist at 7 yards in under 3 seconds. Of course some of the students were not duly impressed. I explained one should carry as large a caliber as one can hit the target. 9 bee
stings would discourage most individuals quickly.
5 shots w/ a .454 that miss have little stopping power.
Sorry I got off track, bottom line...friends of mine have reported people being shot with .25's that actually bounced off peoples heads. Take the .22 and shoot it well. As a sidenote, my Bersa functioned as well as any 9mm, 40 or
.380 I've owned. And that included Berettas, and Sig's.

:scrutiny:

dasmi
November 14, 2005, 02:20 PM
The fact is, more people are killed in the U.S. w/ the
supposed dimunitive .22 than any other caliber. The reason for this is when it enters the human body it tumbles rather
than drill straight ahead like a large more powerful weapon
sometimes exiting the body with a hole the same size as
the entry wound.
No, I think the reason for this has more to do with the fact that there are so many .22 caliber guns out there, and so much .22 ammo sold.

Manedwolf
November 14, 2005, 04:20 PM
.25acp is a waste of time,money,materials and effort.:barf:

And the most powerful handgun in the world doesn't do you much good if you had to leave it at home because it couldn't be concealed in the outfit you're wearing.

You wouldn't take a .25 to a SWAT raid, but for effectively saying "NO" to someone with a knife who wants your wallet, what's wrong with being able to express your sentiments eight or nine times in a way that can, yes, actually hurt them?

Vern Humphrey
November 14, 2005, 04:47 PM
And the most powerful handgun in the world doesn't do you much good if you had to leave it at home because it couldn't be concealed in the outfit you're wearing.

Generally speaking, when people are forced in an emergency to rely on some inadequate piece of equipment, it's because they planned (or failed to plan) ahead.

You wouldn't take a .25 to a SWAT raid, but for effectively saying "NO" to someone with a knife who wants your wallet, what's wrong with being able to express your sentiments eight or nine times in a way that can, yes, actually hurt them?

That would be my M1911 -- with one up the spout and an 8-round magazine.:p

1 old 0311
November 14, 2005, 05:28 PM
A .25 will NOT bounce off a skull. I had a friend killed in a robery with 1 shot to the head with a Jennings.
I have/had .22,.25,.32,.380. Now my mouse is a N.A.A. .380. Looking for the same in .32. No matter what I carry in the mouse group I do carry a Dutch, mixed, load. FMJ, Hollowpoint, FMJ, Holowpoint.


Kevin

confed sailor
November 14, 2005, 06:17 PM
in fact a 25 will blitz thru a deer skull, truck bed and still bury itself in the dirt,

wanna how i know? :evil:

meef
November 14, 2005, 06:54 PM
Igor takes a bullet.....

Quite a few years ago when I was living a slightly less-than-exemplary lifestyle, I witnessed the result (or lack thereof) of a .25 auto shooting.

I fellow I knew, nicknamed Igor, was on the receiving end of a fmj .25 acp. Now Igor was about 6'1" at around 210 lbs. most of which was very solid muscle, very little of it fat.

At any rate, Igor was at the top of a staircase of a seedy hotel on Main Street in Huntington Beach, California, when a guy at the bottom of the stairs who had a beef with Igor proceeded to shoot him with his mouse gun. It hit Igor in the abdomen, a little above and to one side or the other of his navel. I wasn't there at the time, but another friend said Igor looked down at his stomach, then at the shooter, and said something to the effect of, "You shot me you little *****, I'm gonna kill you!" - at which time the shooter decided to take up running as a viable exercise for his health as opposed to waiting around and letting Igor massage him a bit.

I didn't witness the shooting, but was at Igor's apartment later in the day, where he was sitting around drinking beer, with a bandaid over the (rather shallow) hole in his gut and grumbling about what he'd do to the guy if he came back. On a table next to him was the bullet that his girlfriend had removed with tweezers. It was summer at the beach and all the clothing between the bullet and Igor's skin was a t-shirt.

While I wouldn't want to be shot with a .25 (or anything) and Igor wasn't your average physical specimen - that was pathetic performance from a firearm.

Manedwolf
November 15, 2005, 11:02 AM
Generally speaking, when people are forced in an emergency to rely on some inadequate piece of equipment, it's because they planned (or failed to plan) ahead.


Or you just can't walk around in a greatcoat year-round to hide a large-frame whatever, or you're a slender sort who wears fitted jeans with tucked-in shirts and doesn't have any bulk to hide a gun at the waistband.

Not everyone can CC a full-sized gun at all times. In which case, what I was saying...something is better than nothing. When I go out to dinner at a nice restaurant, I'm not prepping to take part in a SWAT raid, or that a load of terrorists and ninjas or whatever might bust into the restaurant, as to "planning ahead"... :scrutiny:

Manedwolf
November 15, 2005, 11:07 AM
Igor takes a bullet.....
While I wouldn't want to be shot with a .25 (or anything) and Igor wasn't your average physical specimen - that was pathetic performance from a firearm.

Thing is...The guy took one shot. That's why a lot of said "mouse guns" have a decent mag. If I have a round chambered in a 950, that's nine shots.

And as another poster said, I do the same thing. Federal FMJ, then Speer Gold Dot hollowpoint, then FMJ, HP, etc.

p35
November 15, 2005, 11:22 AM
Taurus states in their manual for the TP22 that cartridges such as CCI Stingers should not be used in the gun.
Tom

Taurus used to be infamous for telling owners not to use .38+P in their .38s, or for that matter any high powered ammo in any of their guns. If you don't shoot the gun, you don't send it in for repair. I wouldn't hesitate to use Stingers if they worked reliably in my particular gun.

LightningJoe
November 15, 2005, 05:46 PM
that was pathetic performance from a firearm.


True. But even pathetic performance kept Igor at the top of the stairs.

Vern Humphrey
November 15, 2005, 06:46 PM
When I go out to dinner at a nice restaurant, I'm not prepping to take part in a SWAT raid, or that a load of terrorists and ninjas or whatever might bust into the restaurant, as to "planning ahead"... :scrutiny:

The decision you make today will determine what you have at some future date when your life is at stake.

People often say, "If if's all you've got . . ." My response is, if it's all youve got, it's what you decided you would have.

Pilot
November 15, 2005, 07:32 PM
When I go out to dinner at a nice restaurant, I'm not prepping to take part in a SWAT raid, or that a load of terrorists and ninjas or whatever might bust into the restaurant, as to "planning ahead"... :scrutiny:


That is too funny. You must not frequent some of the restaurants I do. :)

Thanks for the chuckle.

meef
November 15, 2005, 09:55 PM
Originally Posted by meef: Igor takes a bullet.....
While I wouldn't want to be shot with a .25 (or anything) and Igor wasn't your average physical specimen - that was pathetic performance from a firearm.
Thing is...The guy took one shot. That's why a lot of said "mouse guns" have a decent mag. If I have a round chambered in a 950, that's nine shots.
True. But even pathetic performance kept Igor at the top of the stairs.
Points well taken....:)

mr.trooper
November 15, 2005, 10:10 PM
I only carry my NAA mini-revolver when I'm in the swimming pool.

That cant be good for the gun.

LightningJoe
November 16, 2005, 11:01 AM
That cant be good for the gun.


It may be bad for the ammunition. I carry the gun in the little change pocket inside my swim trunks, so it gets wet. It's stainless, but I suppose the springs aren't, so that's a consideration.

lbmii
November 16, 2005, 12:32 PM
I was at an intensive care unit and a guy there had shot and killed his wife with a cheap 25 auto. He then put the pistol to his head and shot himself. The 25 cal bullet went through one side of his head and out the other side. He died after about 3 weeks in a coma.

I once read somewhere that a 25 auto will penetrate through and through a person's skull about 60 percent of the time during real world shootings to the brain/head.

MachIVshooter
November 16, 2005, 06:29 PM
I wouldn't hesitate to use Stingers if they worked reliably in my particular gun.

Just a little tid bit to add on the stinger discussion. For one, they are slightly longer than most .22 LR ammo and occasionally have related feeding problems (I have had magazines bind with stingers). The more important fact is this; the Stingers were designed to increase lethality of .22 LR on varmints and the like. While they have considerably more power coming from a rifle, they use a relatively slow burning powder and do not exhibit any real advantage in short barreled handguns. I have chronographed so many different .22 LR cartridges from so many different guns I have lost count, but I distinctly remember being dissapointed with stingers from my AMT Back-Up .22.

ArmedBear
November 16, 2005, 06:41 PM
What about .17M2 or .17HMR?

Would a .17 do more damage at close range, given the type of bullet and velocity?

There's no real "stopping power" in any of these rounds, so what about penetration and expansion?

Also, S&W makes a NICE but pricey 7-shot snubbie in .22WMR. Only weighs 11 oz.

It would outperform the .22LR and the .25ACP, and with a DA revolver, rimfire reliability is not a huge problem. Just pull the trigger again. Moreover, .22WMR is better ammo than your $10/brick plinking LR rounds.

http://www.smith-wesson.com/webapp/wcs/stores/servlet/ProductDisplay?catalogId=10001&storeId=10001&productId=14744&langId=-1&isFirearm=Y

backphil
November 16, 2005, 08:48 PM
I've carried my Beretta 950 Jetfire in .25ACP for almost 20 years. It is a very high quality pistol with a mirror blue finish. I carry it in a light weight, moulded leather pocket holster that breaks up it's print against the fabric of my pocket. I use the blue nosed Glaser Safety slugs (don't think they make them in .25 gray). I shot some gallon jugs of water with both the Glaser and full metal jacket just to see the difference. The GSS was definitely more powerful.

Frangible rounds seem to make more sense for small caliber self defense rounds because they cause more capillary damage with a wider (though more shallow) wound channel. As for the difference between rimfire and centerfire ammo, I've heard that 22 rimfire is not as reliable (ignition and long term storage) as .25ACP. I've never had a misfire with my Jetfire.

Since the first rule of self defense is to have a gun, this little .25 auto fits the bill more often than not for my lifestyle and clothing selection.

http://www.impactsites2000.com/site3/images2/950.jpg (http://www.beretta.com/index.aspx?m=74&idc=2&ids=16)
click image

Stevie-Ray
November 16, 2005, 11:45 PM
Taurus states in their manual for the TP22 that cartridges such as CCI Stingers should not be used in the gun. My TP22 feeds reliably for me with only one type of one brand of cartridge. I have not yet tried all of the available types of 22 LR cartridge.
I'm not supposed to shoot Yellow Jackets out of my PT-22 either, due to it's TC type bullet design, but it's generally all I use. Never had a failure, and love the gun.

tgfang
November 17, 2005, 12:21 AM
Stingers are one of the cartridges that don't feed reliably in my gun. The few that I shot started beating up the front of the frame; so, no more of those. No cartridge that we have tried feeds reliably for my wife, but she cannot grip the pistol well due to arthritis. The tip-up barrel is nice for her.

There is a site on the web that has posted penetration results for Stingers - from a short barrel a heavier 22LR gives better results.

Tom

deputy tom
November 17, 2005, 07:57 PM
My choice is a Beretta 950BS in .25acp.YMMV.tom.:)

TimboKhan
November 18, 2005, 03:54 PM
My step-dad regularly dispatches mice and moles with a single six stoked with .22 shot shells. I, on the other hand, find that anything less than a .454 Casull is not enough gun. According to Craig Boddington, it also depends on the variety of mouse, as Kangaroo mice require up to a .500 S&W and packrats require a move up to the .600 nitro.

lbmii
November 18, 2005, 04:37 PM
A very good reliable and small 25 auto is the FIE Titan. They cost like 45 to 75 dollars. Mine is excellent. Low power ugly little thing but excellent reliability and accuracy. I do not know when they stoped importing them. They are hard to find.

If you want a cheap 25 auto get the Titan over those "Ring of Fire" cast zink brands.

http://images.gunsamerica.com/./upload/976108121.jpg

Aint she pretty!:rolleyes:

Manedwolf
November 18, 2005, 05:02 PM
A very good reliable and small 25 auto is the FIE Titan. They cost like 45 to 75 dollars. Mine is excellent. Low power ugly little thing but excellent reliability and accuracy. I do not know when they stoped importing them. They are hard to find.

If you want a cheap 25 auto get the Titan over those "Ring of Fire" cast zink brands.

http://images.gunsamerica.com/./upload/976108121.jpg

Aint she pretty!:rolleyes:

Personally, if I wanted a .25, I'd spend double that and go for the Beretta, just because you KNOW it's going to be reliable. Lots of cops and agents apparently chose a 950/Jetfire/Bobcat as their last-resort deep-cover backup gun.

Manedwolf
November 18, 2005, 05:07 PM
My choice is a Beretta 950BS in .25acp.YMMV.tom.:)

Likewise. Mag alternating between FMJ and Speed Gold Dot HP, just for the chances of penetration vs. expansion against varying clothing with the small caliber.

That in the front pocket in a wallet-outline Kramer with shorts or t-shirt and jeans, and I figure if someone demands my wallet, easy to do an "Okay..here ya go!" draw instead. :D They move away, good, they move towards, the magazine gets emptied.

backphil
November 18, 2005, 05:20 PM
Likewise. Mag alternating between FMJ and Speed Gold Dot HP, just for the chances of penetration vs. expansion against varying clothing with the small caliber.

That in the front pocket in a wallet-outline Kramer with shorts or t-shirt and jeans, and I figure if someone demands my wallet, easy to do an "Okay..here ya go!" draw instead. :D They move away, good, they move towards, the magazine gets emptied.


You have the same thought pattern as me. I've gone through that scenario dozens of times in my mind.

lbmii
November 19, 2005, 12:57 AM
What I have done is replaced my little 25 with a Kel Tec 3AT. If you can afford a Beretta 950BS in .25acp you can afford a KelTec 3AT. I think the 380 ACP is a much better way to go. However, even with the larger 380 round I stick with FMJ.

45Broomhandle
November 24, 2005, 12:30 AM
WHY CARRY A CANNON FOR THEM LITTLE CRITTERS? Below is the "Better Mouse Gun" you've all overlooked. Yesiree... the Model 1926 Liliput in 4.25mm. Your .25acp might be okay for a MOOSE, but certainly not a mouse! Wow, talk about overkill... Sharp stick??? We ain't cavemen, we're civilized hunters who believe in the QUICK, humane kill which the 4.25mm Liliput delivers with deadly accuracy - no scopes, no bipods, and you don't need a sling. Below is a picture of my Liliput alongside my HUMONGOUS F.I.E. - which is carried only as a back-up weapon in case a wounded bull mouse should attack. That's MY two-cents worth. 45Broomhandle

http://img519.imageshack.us/img519/8229/liliputwiththefie600wide6xu.jpg

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