[want to be gunsmith]

:fire: First me being a loyal shotguner and not having much experince with a carbine but I do know the 30cal are not powerful enough for practial police shootout because of the weak bullet why there reports of a rober takeing a 30cal shell full in the chest and keep coming and I do know that a suspect in 20 feet can charge and cutt you up in less than a second but shot gun with corrispoding 000buck and slug can easliy take a man down a ranges of 50-100 yards (patterned to these ranges) so if they retire the shotgun i will be:mad: and then there's the phyiscal efect of 35cal balls ripping thew you

[pauli]

please relax, restate, and punctuate.

[SShooterZ]

please relax, restate, and punctuate.


:D :evil: :D

[Dave McCracken]

Let's keep it on The High Road, folks....

WTBGS, nothing is as effective as a shotgun for CQB until they get the bugs out of that prototype light saber. However....

Not everyone functions well with a shotgun. Carbines are fine weapons even though they do not transfer as much energy as a 12 gauge.

Threads that pit something vs something else oft degenerate into seeing who can leave the highest mark on the fire hydrant. Let's keep this polite....

[enfield]

It IS polite to capitalize and punctuate. We're just trying to be helpful . . .

[Smoke]

30cal are not powerful enough for practial police shootout because of the weak bullet

Are you referring to the .30 Carbine specifically? I'd not like to see the guy that could take a .308. 30-30, 30-06, etc and keep coming.

Carbines have their place, as do scatter guns.

I prefer a gauge. Others don't. To each his own.

Smoke

[Vern Humphrey]

I am personally not a fan of the .30 carbine -- I was issued an M2 my first tour in Viet Nam, and it got wrapped around a tree.:p

That said, the 12 gauge shotgun is hard to beat at close quarters. My basic home-defense gun is an Ithaca Model 37 with the (smoothbore) 20" Deerslayer barrel. I load with 00 Buck.

However, under other circumstances, an SKs or a .30-30 might be a viable or even better alternative.

[Preacherman]

The shotgun delivers massive firepower at close range, better than almost any other weapon. It can be used from 25-100 yards with slugs, but it's at its best at close range with "knock-'em-down-and-stomp-'em" buckshot loads.

Unfortunately, the price for this power is heavy recoil, limited ammo capacity, and a lack of versatility for longer ranges. A carbine such as an AK-47 clone can deliver 75% of the energy of a buckshot round, and will be accurate out to 250-300 yards or so, with much lower recoil and much higher ammo capacity.

My personal preference is for the carbine under such circumstances: but if I know that shots will be limited to close range (e.g. indoor defense), and I'll have to put down armed assailants with authority, I'll certainly choose a shotgun. Only if I need flexibility (e.g. indoor and outdoor shots) will I take the carbine.

[L-2]

OK, let's list some "pro's & con's":
shotgun: 8 or 9 pellets of 00 buck per pull of the trigger, good to 15 yards for my purposes, slugs after that (comfortably accurate to 50 yds. for me); limited ammo capacity; 8 or 9 projectiles to be responsible for; length, weight, recoil, depending on shooter's build, training, and shotguns make, model, barrel length.

carbine/rifle: generally more distance capable (100 yds.+), let's assume .223 or .308; greater ammo capacity with 20 or 30 rd. mags.; with the right ammo, functions well in close-quarters also; one projective per trigger-pull; rifle make, model, weight vs. shooter's build & training.

My problem: forseeing the need before it's too late or too inconvenient to go back and get either long-gun, and if both are available, not being able to grab both rifle and shotgun when it just starts out being a routine "9-1-1 unknown" dispatched call.

The law enforcement in my area generally either have the .223 AR-15 type rifles, or, sometimes, the .308 in the M1A/M14 rifles, possibly in addition to a 12 gauge shotgun (and our handguns). AFAIK, nobody's using the .30 carbine round for police work around here. The .223 and .308 rounds seem to be quite effective in stopping bad guys in police-work, so far. The .308, a .30 caliber round, being very wounding, if not fatal, to a targeted person. Most agencies have gotten away from the pistol-calibered carbine/SMG concept, around here.

[Gordon]

Shotgun less than 25 yards.
Carbine 25 yards to 200 yards
real battle rifles 200 yards up:cool:

[sm]

Oh I don't know.

I mean I hear that all guns are dangerous and just liable to go off on rampages and such all by themselves.
Aren't you supposed to call 911 or something? Seems I read you were supposed to do that on the Internet somewheres...








;)

[mr.trooper]

30 carbine has problems, because expanding ammo like hollow and soft points offen have feeding problems.

Other than that, they are fine: accurate, reliable, good mag capacity.

No different than using a 357 carbine...except the 30 carbine has more energy on a smaller surface area, and thus better penetration. ;)

[Marshall]

I have both and can see the use for both. As stated, the .30 Carbine is a .357 Mag short barrel rifle that can hold 30 rounds, mine doesn't fail with HP ammo, ever, so far. ;)

[mr.trooper]

Good.

Our Gun shop has a Post War Carbine in excellent shape for $400. It looks good all over. IV been considering picking it up. What do you think?