[mmike87]

Hunting for a scope seems tougher than hunting for the rifle.

Here are the requirements:

1) Target shooting and post-apocolyptic Zombie sniping :D
2) Weight is not too important. I'll be shooting from a bipod primarily and this is not a hunting rifle.
3) Variable power. My range has primarily 100 yard rifle ranges, but I don't want to limit myself to just short range. I was thinking 3 x 9 power or something close to that range.
4) Probably a 40mm objective lense. Don't want something that site really high on the rifle, but want a bright image even at max magnification.
5) Good warranty and customer service.
6) Rugged. It's not a hunting rifle but I don't want to have to baby it, either.

These are what I have considered:

http://www.riflescopes.com/products/6525/nikon_3-9x40_monarch_ucc_riflescope.htm

http://www.riflescopes.com/products/LEU55046/leupold_3.5-10x40_vx-iii_riflescope.htm

http://www.riflescopes.com/products/5214609943/zeiss_3-9x40_conquest_rifle_scope.htm

Thoughts?

[Jim Watson]

I had an older Vari-X III 3.5-10 AO that was a very clear scope. When I sent it in for target knob installation, Leupold found it had a bent tube and offered to replace it with the current model closest in price and specifications. I ended up with a VX2 4-12 AO. Good "customer service" as they say.

I think parallax adjustment and big graspable visible target knobs for windage and elevation are worth paying for but then a friend has gotten me interested in Long Range shooting and stuff like that matters at 600 yards and out.

[Mute]

Get the Leupold. You won't be sorry.

[mmike87]

Leupold does see to consistently come to the top of the heap when it comes to customer service.

[mmike87]

Here's another question. What do I need to mount to scope to a Rem 700? It's "drilled and tapped" for scope mounting - but there seems to be a broad price range in scope mounting hardware.

[Gunrunner]

Leupold is my preference. On my PSS in 223 I have the 6.5-20X50 LRT. I like having more magnification on a target rifle than 3-9 or 3.5-10. Makes it a lot easier to see those small 22 caliber bullet holes. Especially if you ever shoot at ranges longer than 100 yards.

Edit: If you get the Leupold from swfa, you'll see a drop down menu below the scope description. It says 'select your free gift', and in there you can get standard rings and bases included. They also give free shipping for Leupold scopes. I use the leupy rings and bases a lot and think they're very good.

[mmike87]

Leupold is my preference. On my PSS in 223 I have the 6.5-20X50 LRT. I like having more magnification on a target rifle than 3-9 or 3.5-10. Makes it a lot easier to see those small 22 caliber bullet holes. Especially if you ever shoot at ranges longer than 100 yards.

Edit: If you get the Leupold from swfa, you'll see a drop down menu below the scope description. It says 'select your free gift', and in there you can get standard rings and bases included. They also give free shipping for Leupold scopes. I use the leupy rings and bases a lot and think they're very good.

Maybe my choice of magnification is coming out of my deer hunting days. I am new to rifle target shooting.

[mmike87]

OK, bases and rings are confusing me.

I was looking at the Leupold Mark 4 bases and rings. They look pretty solid and are pricey IMO, but not the most expensive.

I was looking at the Burris Black Diamond scopes, and the rings and bases they suggest are about $70 total. Seems like a pretty big difference.

Can someone please shed some light here? I'm not cheap and don't mind spending $200 to get real good stuff - but is it really better or just more expensive?

Edit:

Looking at the Burris Black Diamond scope, if I wanted the Leupold Rings aqnd Base (Mark 4) how do you know what height rings to get? They have charts for looking up THEIR scopes cross referenced to THEIR rings, which is not of much help. Match it with a scope of the same objective diameter from Leuopold?

[MDG1976]

Bases: Get a one piece. It's a much stronger, "straighter" mount for your scope. Warne (http://www.midwayusa.com/eproductpage.exe/showproduct?saleitemid=893254) sells a good one for about $90. It's a picatinny rail, you can use "Weaver" stlye rings.
Rings: Use Weaver stlye on your picatinny rail. There are lots of choices out there. Here's Warnes (http://www.midwayusa.com/eproductpage.exe/showproduct?saleitemid=346104).
You can spend more money on a base and rings, but these should work well for benchrest zombie sniping.
Scope: Weaver Classic 4-16x42 (http://www.midwayusa.com/eproductpage.exe/showproduct?saleitemid=465447) was recommended to me by several people for it's great quality for a good price. 16 power along with the fine crosshair will let you hit zombies way, way out. I ordered Warnes Medium height rings for my 42mm scope.

This should be a good set up. At least I hope it is, I just ordered it for my new Savage 10FP. ;)

[mmike87]

Here is what I am looking at right now. Based on feedback I got here and elsewhere, I upped the magnification some, and that seemed to come with a bigger objective, too. Both the Leuopold and Burris BD's all come highly regarded, so I picked the Burris because it's a tiny bit less expensive and I don't like the gold ring on the Leo. Good reason? Hey, I figure I can't go wrong with either, so what the hell.

002K Butler Creek Lens Caps $15.95 $15.95
626033 Burris 50mm Black Diamond Sun Shade $19.95 $19.95
200926 Burris 4-16x50 Black Diamond 30mm Rifle Scope $579.95 $579.95
LEU50040 Leupold Mark 4 1 Piece Base $89.95 $89.95
420585 Burris Signature Zee 30mm Rings $52.95 $52.95
SBRM Harris Ultralight Bipod BRMS Series S $89.95 $89.95

Midway seemed to be out of the Warne rings and bases for short action 700's - and the Leo base was about the same price. I chose the Burris Sig Zee rings because I liked the idea of the insert in the rings, and they were a tad less expensive and still seem very well regarded. The Burris rings are "Extra High" which is what their chart said to select for their BD 4-16 scopes.

What do y'all think? Should I sign on the line which is dotted and do this? Will all these pieces work together?

[Jim Watson]

Friend of mine has a big Burris that is very unimpressive.
Learn to like the gold ring.
The Burris ball and socket rings are very handy. If your rifle is drilled and tapped crooked they will prevent stress on the tube. The offset inserts can correct for misalignment and add elevation if you should want to shoot at longer range than a 1" tube scope will adjust for.

[Dance&Sting]

The only scope I would ever recommend is Leupold. WHY? Because it's the only brand that sits on top of all my rifles ensuring my shots, knowing I have good quality vision in the rain or fog, full lifetime gaurantee which I have never used nor anybody I know with Leupold scopes (the guy at the "full lifetime gaurantee" desk must be pretty bored:D), and mainly because of my experiences with other scopes, except for a few of course. Grab the Leupold. You won't regret looking back at all those dammed hours you worked for some optic(s) sitting behind a glass frame at your local gun/outdoor sports store. Besides, you get what you pay for right?

[Bullet]

If I had the $$$ I'd get one of these -

http://www.riflescopes.com/products/LEU55186/leupold_8.5-25x50_vx-iii_30mm_riflescope.htm

If you want something that costs less than your rifle you might look at this -

http://www.riflescopes.com/products/LEU57040/leupold_6-18x40_vx-ii_riflescope.htm

[mmike87]

Is a 40mm objective big enough for a 20x scope? The Burris BD's are all 50mm at SWFA, however most of the Leos are 40mm.

Also - the Leo Mark 4 scope are in the same price range as the VX-III's - how would they compare?

[redneck2]

FWIW..

as with others here, I have opinions. Mine are based on 40 years of using rifles/shotguns/scope combinations

Burris was supposedly started by a guy that left Leupold to make better scopes. Burris have metal internal parts, Leupold is plastic. Either would work fine, as would the lower end Zeiss, etc. I have both Leupold and Burris.

Larger optics mean the scope has to be mounted higher. In my experience (which is rather substantial), you almost have to take the rifle to a local shop and find the correct base height. If your bases are too high, it's difficult to get a good cheek weld for target shooting.

I've got Leupld QD rings on my muzzle loader. You can remove and re-install the scope and maintain zero. Just something else to confuse you.

If I were doing it, I'd probably get the Leo or Burris scope, Zee rings, and Butler Creek caps

I'm not a fan of Weaver style rings. I currently have them on my slug gun, and the scope slips between shots. May be OK for light recoil, but if you've got a major caliber it may be a concern

[mmike87]

OK ...

The Burris is out. Although both the Burris and Leos have good reps, upon further research the Leos just seem to have an almost flawless reputation.

That said ... I'll further complicate the issue. Since I am in the $700 range now, what about the Zeiss Conquest scopes? How do they compare to the Leos?

Consider: http://www.riflescopes.com/products/5214909920/zeiss_4.5-14x50_conquest_rifle_scope.htm

Also, what's the deal with 30mm vs. 1" - does it matter? Do I care?

[Jim Watson]

I don't know anything about the American Zeiss, but the specs look good and side knob parallax correction is more convenient than an adjustable objective.

In general, 30mm tube scopes have a wider range of adjustment, which is needed if you shoot at long ranges. Most 1" scopes will not have enough adjustment to get to 1000 yards; which is why you see advertisements for "tapered" scope bases that add 20 MOA or more of elevation. A 1" scope is usually ok up to 600 yards in a flat mount; that is only about 15 MOA above the 100 yd zero for my '06. But it is 22 MOA more to 1000 yards and my VX2 won't do it, so I have a tapered base. Now I can't get down to a 100 yard zero but that does not matter much, I only shoot the gun at Long Range F-Class and all it has to do is move between 600 and 1000 yard settings.

[Slimjim]

The zeiss conquest is supposed to be the best value in optics in their price range on the market. Or so i hear.

BTW, if your setting it up for tactical, look at something like a Leupold Mk 4 scope. You can get the 4.5-16x50 in the 7-800 dollar range. The mark 4's are on mose every precision rifle on the Arfcom precision rifle section.

[Gewehr98]

I have a bunch of Leupolds on my rifles. However, on a tip from the benchrest crowd, this 700PSS in .308 Winchester integrated quite nicely with a Sightron SII 4-16x42 MilDot:

http://mauser98.com/700pssbenchirc.jpg

I've never been happier with a scope/rifle combination. The rifle's pretty happy too:

http://mauser98.com/700pss168grmatchking100yds.jpg

A 700 PSS in .223 doesn't need a behemoth of a scope...

[MDG1976]

Gewehr98- what kind of stock is that?

[Beethoven]

Also, what's the deal with 30mm vs. 1" - does it matter? Do I care?


30mm is larger than 1". 30mm tubes let more light in and are generally considered to be a better design than 1" tubes.

[Beethoven]

One more thing:

If you are seriously looking at $700 glass, may as well go whole hog, spend a few hundred more and get a Nite Force or US Optics.

[Monkeyleg]

If you're going to be trying for the utmost in group size, go for the 6.5x20. If nothing else, you won't have to spend money on a spotting scope. ;)

I have a Leupold 6.5x20x50mm on my 700 Police .308, and it does not sit too high to get a good cheek weld. Another rifle I owned sported a 6.5x20x40mm Leupold. The extra 10mm means some extra shooting time when the sun starts going down.

If $$$ are a concern, why not look for a good used scope? Or for a really good deal? I found my 6.5x20x50mm new in box on gunbroker.com for $450 from a dealer going out of business.

[CDignition]

Not many offerings from USO for 900 bux.

IOR is the ticket..Schott glass(Same as Zeiss), excellent reticle, target turrets, illumination, etc, etc...35 mm tube...

http://www.valdada.com/vn/ior/03s

[Gewehr98]

Gewehr98- what kind of stock is that?

The 700 PSS didn't always come in flat black. H-S Precision makes that 700 PSS stock in several different colors, and law enforcement agencies can order their rifles from Remington in whatever color's available, hence an olive green w/black web 700 PSS. :D

H-S Precision color choices:

http://www.hsprecision.com/pst59.htm

[redneck2]

Since you're upping the ante, get to a dealer and look thru a Zeiss, Nightforce, Schmidtd & Bender, or Leica as compared to a Leupold.

Particularly, look into a dark corner of the room as far away as possible, then look at something small in bright light and far away.

Lots of guys here will tell you "this is the best, or that is the best", but they've bought thru mail order and never really check one against the other

You're spending enough $$$ that you owe it to yourself to take a little time.

I used to think Nikons were as good as anything "mid-range". I was in a gun shop and had an equivalent Nikon and Leupold. With the Nikon, I could easily see a sign at about 600 yards but not make out the letters. With the Leo, I could read the sign.

I was at a gun shop that had Leupolds, etc. and Zeiss. The clarity of the Zeiss compared to Leupolds, Nikon, etc. was substantal. Then again, how much quality do you want to pay for???

In all honesty, the Leo or Burris would probably by plenty adequate, but the Zeiss is clearer and crisper. Is it worth the price difference? That's a call you'll have to make.

If I were a millionaire, I'd get a Zeiss, Leica, or Schmidt & Bender. If I made 75k, I'd get a Leupold or Burris. If I made $40k, I'd get a Weaver. You pays your money and makes your choices.

[mmike87]

I was thinking of this Zeiss:

http://www.riflescopes.com/products/5214909920/zeiss_4.5-14x50_conquest_rifle_scope.htm

The only "nice" scope I have found around here was a VXIII at Dick's. I looked though it and it was nice. But, as you pointed out - with nothing comparable in price to compare it to, it pretty much has to look nice.

[mmike87]

The plot thickens ...

I am not sure how this will pan out or not, but I do all the software development on the side for a Swarovski dealer (among other things.)

I am not sure if Swarovski scopes are from the same company or a seperate division, but the owner is going to check with the rep and see if they are available through that channel. Probably not, but I figured it was worth a try. This company typically sells Swarovski crystal. They are a pretty big multimillion dollar online retailer, so they can probably get a good price if available.

If so, then I could see a HUGE discount on a Swarovski scope, probably bringing them into the price range. :)

I am not going to get my hopes up, though.

[NineHotel]

Not many offerings from USO for 900 bux.

IOR is the ticket..Schott glass(Same as Zeiss), excellent reticle, target turrets, illumination, etc, etc...35 mm tube...

http://www.valdada.com/vn/ior/03s

Many many complaints out there about IOR customer service. I won't touch one of their scopes, as nice as they are. Don't need the risk on a thousand bucks or so; much rather go with a Lupy or USO for the service on still fine optics. Not flaming you CD - yes they are nice; but this conservative guy just won't risk it given the cust service issues and other options out there.

Mike, a Lupy 3.5-10x50 mil dot M1 or M3 is money in the bank. If you can find one slightly used, you'll not lose any money on it later should you decide to upgrade to something else.

TPS rings and bases, if you can get them, are the current darlings out there; basically a copy of the Badger stuff at about half the price. Try www.bigrivertactical.com to see what the stock situation is right now. I used the Low rings and short little Weaver bases with my SS on a M700 and have plenty of clearance, so they should work with the lupy 50 mms no prob. Stay with the lows for a better cheek weld, but understand that the pros that use a non-adjustable stock that will clear a cleaning rod (meaning your P, M40A1s, etc) use good old thousand mile an hour tape and foam to get a better cheek weld. The Eagle or Blackhawk stock bags are a nice addition as well, with the Eagle getting the nod on quality while the Blackhawk being more accessible. Steve at www.triadtactical.com can fix you up with the Eagle bag at a good price. While there, check out their soft cases. Very nice.

Back to scopes, you can learn to use 10x quite effectively for group shooting at 300 yards. Yea more power makes it a tad easier, but with the right targets 10x is plenty. A grid of 1 inch squares makes it very easy to get you lined up in the middle of one and have your crosshairs level. Heck you can group shoot with a 4x very well with a target like this. Any multi-bull per page target aids this - I use NRA air rifle targets as well.

Back to power - even the 1000 hard long range shooters often dial back to 12-14x due to mirage, so a 10x is not really a handicap at longer ranges once you learn how to use it.

For your $900 I would not rule out TWO scopes and ring sets; one for group shooting, say a nice used 6.5-20x40 lupy front adjustable objective, then a SS 10x for the tac and ranging stuff. The SS mil-dots will teach you how to range, hold off, and click for tac situations like zombie popping, and the lupy will let you tune your loads and technique a bit better. The front adj obj lupies are pretty reasonable these days since side focus is the rage, but still very nice glass.

[atblis]

I'd get something with a little bit of magnification.
4-16 or 6-18 would probably be about right.
The Zeiss scopes are excellent.
An AO would be a good thing for paper punching.

You might consider a Weaver.
or perhaps an IOR
or perhaps a Bushnell Elite4200


http://www.riflescopes.com/products/IOR414X50T/ior_4-14x50_tactical_30mm_rifle_scope.htm
http://www.riflescopes.com/products/424164M/bushnell_4-16x40_elite_4200_rifle_scope.htm

[DPD06]

Are you stuck on a variable? If not, have you considered the Super Sniper 10x42mm mil-dot? I've got one mounted on my 700PSS (300 win mag) with Badger Ordnance 1-piece base and Max-50 medium rings. Absolutely love the set-up. I've tested the mount/rings by removing them and re-mounting while at the range and no detectable loss of zero at all.

[mmike87]

I think I am stuck on a variable. I plan on shooting at a variety of different ranges and like the flexibility of a variable.

[Monkeyleg]

Swarovski? Where's the green-with-envy smilie?

[Pocomoke]

mmike87,

DON'T buy anything until you find out about the Swarovski scope discount. Look through the various scopes, not just read about them.

Hope that the Swarovski discount is really deep...great glass.

Now, if you just happened to buy 2 scopes, well, I'm sure aI could find a nice home for one. ;>)

[mmike87]

She called me and told me her rep said to send him the SKU's of the ones I was interested in and he'd get prices. The margins on these are not as high as the Swarovski Crystal - typically 35-40% vs. 100% for the crystal. But a 40% discount is pretty substantial and I am not complaining. She'll route it to me at cost+shipping.

That's still enough of a discount to make me pony up the cash for a Swarovski. I feel comfortable enough buying a Swarovski sight unseen - with a discount like that there is no way I'd lose money on it if I didn't like it.

It IS a different division though, and she is calling in a favor with her rep because she sells a lot of crystal. Otherwise, I'd offer to facilitate a group-by!

So now I need to pick a Swarovski scope and get them the SKU's. Hopefully this doesn't fall through some how ... I think I'd have a heart attack and die. :eek:

[DrDeFab]

You know, I've really had good experiences with the higher end Simmons optics. 44Mag, ProHunter, Master Series - got at least one of each.

Here's one that might be a good match:
http://www.riflescopes.com/departments/246/rifle_scopes/simmons_rifle_scopes/simmons_44_mag_rifle_scopes.htm

Not that I'm claiming they are as high quality as Leupold, Nikon, etc. But mine have been precise, reliable, hold their zero very well (even on my '06) and plenty clear and bright enough under any condition I've ever seen. I would say you get about 95% of the value of the more exclusive brands for 1/2 to 1/3 the price.

YMMV.

[mmike87]

None of the Swarovski scopes have side focus or side parallax adjustment.

How important are these features? Does the lack of these put the Swarovski scopes at a disadvantage? Are they still worth the money?

Damn I wish I could look through these things somewhere. :|

[Pocomoke]

mmike87,
They're very tough. Barrett .50BMG tough.
It's a few hours drive, but Atlantic Guns in Rockville MD, northern DC suburb, is a Swarovski dealer. The Swarovski web site isn't very user friendly but maybe your GF can find a retailer nearer to Charlottesville.

[Redneckbmxer24]

Mike, since your in charlottesville, im in northern VA, and i shoot at my dads place in warsaw, right outside of montross in richmond county, and i have several SS 10X42's, and ill let you come shoot one if you'd like to.

you can email me at Redneckbmxer24@aol.com

cory

[JOKEN]

Look at www.bullseyesupplies.com. I got a Leupold 4.5x14x50 Boone@Crocket in matte for $549 last year from them I also have a Kahles that is a fine scope.

[bogie]

Gewehr, hate to tell you, but that's not a .216 group... Quick and dirty scoring: If you have two .308 holes that are just touching, that's a .308 group... Nice group for a hunting rifle tho...

I'd stick a Swarovski on a "nice" hunting rifle, but for a varmint gun, I'd go for Nightforce (via Bill Shehane), Weaver, or Leupold - Leupold if you think you'll need the guarantee. For a .223, I wouldn't worry about going much over 15x...