Semi-Auto .357 carbine


PDA






Domino
November 15, 2005, 12:37 AM
How come no one makes one?

Would you buy one?

I'm thinking of something in the lines of a Ruger 99/44 or M1 Carbine in .357 Magnum plus an adjustable gas system for lighter 38 type loads.

Oh and a quality mount for optics and 10-20 round detachable magazines.

Yay or Nay on the idea?

If you enjoyed reading about "Semi-Auto .357 carbine" here in TheHighRoad.org archive, you'll LOVE our community. Come join TheHighRoad.org today for the full version!
mnrivrat
November 15, 2005, 12:49 AM
Not that it is a terrible idea, but one would think that the .44 magnum carbine made by Ruger would have been much more popular if there was a demand for this type of gun.

The same applies to the Marlin camp carbines made in 9mm and 45 auto.

Also design limitations come into play with making auto's to feed a rimmed cartridge like the .357 mag. Ruger made the rotary magazine but they have their limits.

Come to think of it : I respectfully think it is a bad idea ! :D

Zundfolge
November 15, 2005, 12:54 AM
You can always get a MecTech CCU for a Glock in .357sig (you just said .357 ... you didn't specify mag or sig :p ).

rockstar.esq
November 15, 2005, 12:59 AM
Once upon a time I read an article comparing the Taylor KO factor's of the .44mag, .357, and .45LC to the .30-30, 30-06, and if memory serves, the .270Win. The handgun calibers were used in lever guns to maximize long range potential and the gist of the article said that for under 100yds, deer should drop just as dead with the handgun rounds as they do with the rifle rounds. As for the semiauto carbine notion (Hi cap no less) Frankly, I think it's a fine idea. I mean if we have the .30 carbine, why not the .357 Mag carbine. Seems to me the "anemic" performance of the 30 carbine would be well answered. Firearms are sometimes so traditional that sometimes the young bucks need to shake things up.

pauli
November 15, 2005, 01:05 AM
honestly, i don't see the point. we've got revolver rounds for lever/pump guns, and semi auto pistol rounds for semi auto carbines. not much call for crossover.

grimjaw
November 15, 2005, 01:32 AM
I wouldn't buy one for the same reason I won't get the Ruger .44 Magnum. Too expensive to feed. I have a Marlin lever in .357 that will eat .357 or .38. I don't know that an autoloader would be as versatile.

Now if you'd said 7.62x25 Tokarev or .30 Carbine, that's more interesting.

jmm

dasmi
November 15, 2005, 02:05 AM
7.62x25 Tokarev
Oh, now that would be sweet.

Dave Markowitz
November 15, 2005, 08:19 AM
The main reason you don't see too many semiautos in revolver cartridges is that they are rimmed rounds. Rimless cartridges are much more suitable for semiautos due to their feeding characteristics.

You'll note the the Ruger carbines in .44 Magnum have either a tubular mag (the old models), or a small capacity rotary in the new models. AFAIK, nobody makes an extra capacity mag for the new rifles with detachable magazines, becuase it would be too much of a PITA to make it run right.

Father Knows Best
November 15, 2005, 10:00 AM
I'm thinking of something in the lines of a Ruger 99/44 or M1 Carbine in .357 Magnum ...

Oh and a quality mount for optics and 10-20 round detachable magazines.


Um, why? The M1 Carbine already fills that niche nicely. It is a proven design, is cheap and easy to find, and both 15 and 30 round mags are plentiful. The .30 Carbine round it is chambered for has a 110 grain bullet leaving the muzzle at just shy of 2,000 fps, for a muzzle energy of 967 ft-lbs. The .357 magnum round uses a heavier bullet (125-180 grains, typically) but at lower velocity (around 1,500 fps). Using a rifle barrel to maximize velocity, a typical .357 round would generate about 960 ft-lbs of muzzle energy, or just about the same as the .30 carbine. As range increases the .357 will retain energy a little better due to the heavier bullet, but it will also drop more. At 200 yards (the max practical range of both cartridges), the .30 carbine is packing 373 ft-lbs and the 180 grain .357 magnum is at 385. Again -- too close to call.

So why reinvent the wheel by trying to rejigger it for a rimmed revolver cartridge that offers no practical benefit?

Slimjim
November 15, 2005, 02:43 PM
You could get an AR15 lower with a 10mm upper and have .357 power :)

Kurush
November 15, 2005, 04:42 PM
One word: rimlock. The .357 is a rimmed cartridge and rimmed cartridges in normal box magazines will rimlock and FTF unless loaded carefully. To prevent rimlock any semiauto would have to either use an alternative mag design like a tube or drum, or for a box mag, it would have to be either a top-loading mag like a Bren, or an angled nose-up magazine. Given how long a .357 is I think the last option is probably infeasible, and tubes/drums/toploaders probably wouldn't sell.

KriegHund
November 15, 2005, 04:54 PM
100 round c-mag type drum for .357 :eek: :eek:

That would be the coolest weapon on the face of the earth!

Ive always wondered why there arent more carbines in general, andi posted a thread on it once. Ill go find it in a little while. The general counter-argument to having them was that rifles do everything that the carbines can.
The general "For" argument was that they had less recoil, more accurate/slightly increased range from pistols, higher mag capacity, greater controlability.

Although i have to admit the carbines dont have half as much merit as they might if it werent for the cursed 18" barrel law, i still like em.

here it is http://www.thehighroad.org/showthread.php?t=148276&highlight=carbines

SLCDave
November 15, 2005, 05:48 PM
Um, why? The M1 Carbine already fills that niche nicely.

So why reinvent the wheel by trying to rejigger it for a rimmed revolver cartridge that offers no practical benefit?

You could get an AR15 lower with a 10mm upper and have .357 power

But if he wants a carbine to share ammo with his .357 Mag revolver, the M1 Carbine and/or the AR15 in 10mm won't exactly do that, will they?

walking arsenal
November 15, 2005, 06:00 PM
One word: rimlock

If that were totally true the .357 Desert eagle would never function. There is no reason why the same design idea couldnt be applied here.

Father Knows Best
November 15, 2005, 06:51 PM
But if he wants a carbine to share ammo with his .357 Mag revolver, the M1 Carbine and/or the AR15 in 10mm won't exactly do that, will they?

It would be a lot easier to just buy a revolver chambered in .30 Carbine, wouldn't it? Ruger makes them, and some other manufacturers may, also.

[regarding rimlock]
If that were totally true the .357 Desert eagle would never function. There is no reason why the same design idea couldnt be applied here.

There are certainly autoloaders that use rimmed cartridges. They are rare, though, because it's tricky to make a traditional magazine function reliably with a rimmed cartridge. You can't have a double stack mag, for instance, and the cartridges must be inserted into the mag in a way that staggers the rims and keeps them aligned properly. A straight vertical stack won't work. That's why Ruger uses a rotary magazine, for instance. It's also why most repeating rifles that use rimmed cartridges also use tubular magazines, which aren't quick or convenient to recharge.

Nobody is saying that it would be impossible to convert an M1 carbine to use a rimmed pistol cartridge. We're just saying that it is technically very difficult to do it and come up with a firearm that functions reliably. Since there are rimless cartridges that work just as well, why bother going to all that effort and expense on a project that has little chance of success?

Of course, if you have unlimited time and resources, and want to do it just 'cause you can, then be my guest. I'm all for it. I may not understand it, but I'll certainly support your right to do it.

Uncle Alvah
November 15, 2005, 07:09 PM
The same applies to the Marlin camp carbines made in 9mm and 45 auto.
Seems I just saw a picture of a new Ruger auto much along the same lines. Seems like it was in 9mm maybe??? Seemed kinda pointless to me, I'd rather a Beretta Storm in .40(or .45, if it was made).

billwiese
November 15, 2005, 07:26 PM
Have no idea why you want a 357 carbine when there are nice 44 carbines out there.

I've shot a 44Mag Marlin lever action w/hotter 44M loads, and another w/45LC 'hunting' loads, and they are very mild - so much so that there's no need for a lighter round IMHO. I can shoot these all day long, just like ARs.

I'm sure the Ruger 'Deerfield' 44M carbine will have approx same recoil, too, (which, to me, is minimal) as the Marlin lever gun - maybe even less.

I do believe the Ruger PC40 carbine could be adapted for 357Sig use. Time will tell.

357Sig seems to be cheap to reload too - same-brand once-fired quality brass is available for $20/1000. (I think that's cleaned/polished but not sure.)


Bill Wiese
San Jose

Gewehr98
November 15, 2005, 10:16 PM
Just keep pulling the trigger six times, reload, repeat. This one's in .44 Magnum, but a .357 Magnum version isn't out of the question:

http://mauser98.com/dm15.jpg

http://mauser98.com/dm16.jpg

spartacus2002
November 15, 2005, 10:33 PM
How bout an SKS?:evil:

grimjaw
November 15, 2005, 10:34 PM
Gewehr98, I always thought those revolver carbines looked silly until I saw that one. That's durned nifty.

jmm

Fumbler
November 15, 2005, 10:41 PM
If that were totally true the .357 Desert eagle would never function.
Haha. They don't.

:neener:

Gewehr, how's that cylinder gap blast feel on your arm, or is it a non-issue?

Gewehr98
November 15, 2005, 10:57 PM
It's a non-issue. I never worried about it, truthfully. I suppose I could hold the carbine with my hand right there against the cylinder/forcing cone gap if I felt like being silly.

Likewise, I dunno where people say that Desert Eagles don't function. Maybe they're limp-wristing the gun, but mine's been a total champ, just feed it the right ammo, say 158gr .357 Magnum loads around 1600fps. ;)

petrel800
November 15, 2005, 10:59 PM
www.ar15barrels.com had a barrell for a wildcat .357 cartridge. The cartrige was a .223 trimmed down to the same length as the .357 mag cartridge, it was then loaded with a .357 bullet and could be loaded a little hotter than a regular .357 mag load due to the pressure levels the AR15 can withstand. I called him a couple times about the barrel for an AR15 upper, but he said he could never get the gun to feed properly with any of the mags he fabricated.

Its a shame, because it would have been an awesome home defense gun. I bet you could build a load that would throw that .357 bullet downrange at 1800 fps. Oh well maybe when I win the lottery tonight, I will devote my lifes work to buliding the .357 automag AR15.

Kurush
November 16, 2005, 01:08 AM
If that were totally true the .357 Desert eagle would never function. There is no reason why the same design idea couldnt be applied here.The desert eagle uses nose-up angled feeding. Here's a picture from the manual: http://zvis.com/images/guns/depman/depman06.jpg

Angled feeding designs can still experience rimlock if you load them with short OAL cartridges. Nobody's saying a 357 carbine is impossible, it's just too much hassle for gun manufacturers.

Fumbler
November 16, 2005, 02:18 AM
Likewise, I dunno where people say that Desert Eagles don't function. Maybe they're limp-wristing the gun, but mine's been a total champ, just feed it the right ammo, say 158gr .357 Magnum loads around 1600fps. ;)
What powder (and how much) are you using to push a 158 grainer at 1600 fps out of a DE?

JShirley
November 16, 2005, 10:07 AM
A semi-auto 9x23mm Winchester would make lots more sense...

Gewehr98
November 16, 2005, 06:00 PM
From my Accurate Arms reloading guide:

http://www.thehighroad.org/attachment.php?attachmentid=31327&stc=1&d=1132182021

ARperson
November 16, 2005, 10:51 PM
Regarding the rim lock of a semi-auto action and a rimmed case.... It is more difficult to deal with than non rimmed cartridges; however, the BREN gun and the SVT rifle series have shown that rimmed cartridges can be used in auto loading firearms if care is used during loading of magazines.

slopemeno
November 16, 2005, 11:04 PM
Hmmm... How about a scaled down Model 8 or 81 in .357, takedown, 5-shot. As an option maybe .38 super, 9 x 23, etc...Nice receiver sight, 18" bbl, keep the weight down around 5.5 lbs. Completely useless, yes, but cool anyway.

Kurush
November 16, 2005, 11:33 PM
Regarding the rim lock of a semi-auto action and a rimmed case.... It is more difficult to deal with than non rimmed cartridges; however, the BREN gun and the SVT rifle series have shown that rimmed cartridges can be used in auto loading firearms if care is used during loading of magazines.Yep, also the Mosin-Nagant, SVD... I alluded to that in my first post in this thread. Battle rifles that used normal box magazines and rimmed cartridges were loaded with stripper clips that automatically aligned the rims. People today don't use stripper clips and don't even read the manual, they'd just assume the gun was broken and return it.

Gohon
November 17, 2005, 01:11 AM
Um, why? The M1 Carbine already fills that niche nicely. It is a proven design, is cheap and easy to find, and both 15 and 30 round mags are plentiful. The .30 Carbine round it is chambered for has a 110 grain bullet leaving the muzzle at just shy of 2,000 fps, for a muzzle energy of 967 ft-lbs. The .357 magnum round uses a heavier bullet (125-180 grains, typically) but at lower velocity (around 1,500 fps). Using a rifle barrel to maximize velocity, a typical .357 round would generate about 960 ft-lbs of muzzle energy, or just about the same as the .30 carbine. As range increases the .357 will retain energy a little better due to the heavier bullet, but it will also drop more. At 200 yards (the max practical range of both cartridges), the .30 carbine is packing 373 ft-lbs and the 180 grain .357 magnum is at 385. Again -- too close to call.

So why reinvent the wheel by trying to rejigger it for a rimmed revolver cartridge that offers no practical benefit?


Well............... I'm loading 158 grain JHC 357 for my carbine and they are clocking 1828 FPS with 1172 FPE at the muzzle using 18 grains of Lil'Gun. At 200 yards there is still 542 FPE. The 30 carbine doesn't come close.

Father Knows Best
November 17, 2005, 01:21 AM
Well............... I'm loading 158 grain JHC 357 for my carbine and they are clocking 1828 FPS with 1172 FPE at the muzzle using 18 grains of Lil'Gun. At 200 yards there is still 542 FPE. The 30 carbine doesn't come close.

You're using handloads. I was citing standard factory loads. Big difference there. With handloading in the right firearm, you can also up the power of the .30 carbine.

Of course, the next question would again be ... why? If you want a semi-auto just a little hotter than a .30 carbine, just move up to something in 7.62x39, like a Mini-30, SKS or AK.

Domino
November 17, 2005, 11:23 AM
Of course, the next question would again be ... why? If you want a semi-auto just a little hotter than a .30 carbine, just move up to something in 7.62x39, like a Mini-30, SKS or AK.

First of all, the 7.62X39 and .30 carbine are not pistol cartridges the .357 magnum is. There is a huge amount of .357 magnum handguns around, there are only a handfull of .30 carbine and 7.62X39 pistols. Secondly the ballistics of the .357 is better out of a rifle than the .30 carbine in every way, there is also a much larger variety of .357 ammo than .30 carbine and they are comparible in price.

You ask why, well why not? The .357 magnum is a great all-around defensive round, so why not have at least one autoloader rifle on the market? It's just an idea, I don't expect everyone to like or find a specific purpose for it.

brickboy240
November 17, 2005, 12:23 PM
The Taurus Thunderbolt is comeing soon. Its a pump-action rilfe with a really short stroke in 38/357 magnum and 45 Colt. The word is that the Taurus Thunderbolt will sell for under 400 bucks (!!). Lifetime warranty, too. There is also a stainless version.

(do I want one...hell yeah!)

I think it holds like 14-15 rounds. My guess is that a pump or lever rifle would be more reliable. Would this fill the bill for you?

-Brickboy240

GunnySkox
November 17, 2005, 03:47 PM
I dunno about all this mess about rimlock being such a giant pain in the butt. I know it's a totally different scale of size, but companies don't seem to have much trouble making 25- and 50- round magazines for the 10/22, and 22LR has a pretty good rim on it. The Ciener kit for my 1911 comes with stagger-stack magazines that hold 15 rimmed .22LR rounds, and you'd have to be a complete idiot to manage to wedge the rim of the cartrige you're inserting behind the one it's pushing down.

Personally, I think it's a pretty sweet idea, depending on how well .357 and .44 and othersuch perform in carbine-length barrels, sort of like a step closer between pistol-caliber-carbines and rifle-caliber carbines. Call 'em Carbine Caliber Carbines! :D

~GnSx
However, I might be a complete idiot, so watch out.

Gewehr98
November 17, 2005, 05:20 PM
I'm waiting for this old girl to malfunction, considering she feeds (rimmed) .38 Special wadcutters like grass through a goose:

http://mauser98.com/m52drivetest.jpg

ElPasoWrangler
July 14, 2009, 11:05 AM
I bet there are many more357 owners than 44mag owners and to share a single cartridge would be as valid as it is with lever actions. I would buy one.

NoLifer211
July 14, 2009, 11:20 AM
I have a S&W .357, and I like the .38/.357 versatility. I'd like to see a carbine autoloader .357 mag for sharing ammo.

Concerning lever-action .357 carbines: who makes a good model, and what should I expect to pay?

natman
July 14, 2009, 12:22 PM
A semi-auto 9x23mm Winchester would make lots more sense...

The 9mm Winchester Magnum would be perfect for this application. Too bad it never caught on....

gga357
July 14, 2009, 12:35 PM
Have a 16" barrel made for a Desert Eagle and attach a stock as per the Luger. And a bayonet.

gga357
July 14, 2009, 12:36 PM
delet

jackdanson
July 14, 2009, 01:13 PM
Just keep pulling the trigger six times, reload, repeat. This one's in .44 Magnum, but a .357 Magnum version isn't out of the question:


AWESOME!!!

But I would be worried about finger damage, OUCH!

MCgunner
July 14, 2009, 01:22 PM
The handgun calibers were used in lever guns to maximize long range potential and the gist of the article said that for under 100yds, deer should drop just as dead with the handgun rounds as they do with the rifle rounds.

I don't attribute it to Taylor's moronic arithmetic, but yes, a .357 Carbine is a good deer gun under 100 yards. I'm pushing a 165 grain SWC at 1900 fps out of mine. That's up in the 1300 plus ft lb range. It'll still be up around 800 ft lbs at 100 yards, roughly. That'll gidder dun. I've shot one doe at 80 yards with mine, lung shot, the wound channel was impressive, but not in a .270 class or anything. A good performing high velocity round will do things a pistol blllet even at 1900 fps won't do. All you have to do is clean a few deer shot with both to understand that.

I have a lever gun, 92 Rossi, don't need no stinkin' autoloader. There is a pump out there, Timberwolf, if you can find one. IMI used to market it. The lever gun feeds my 105 grain .38 handload loaded with 2.3 grains of bullseye (great small game round, very accurate) just as well as a full house magnum. You probably couldn't get an autoloader to do that. Autoloaders lack the versatility and kill one of the reasons I like the combination.

MCgunner
July 14, 2009, 01:28 PM
BTW, I think Taurus maybe bought the "thunderbolt" from IMI. Did I read that somewhere? Hmm, don't recall. I might like one of those depending on price. I got my 92 Rossi in the mid 80s for 200 bucks and they're running considerably more than that now days, over 400.

P. Plainsman
July 14, 2009, 06:44 PM
I'm surprised to be the first in this thread to bring up a dedicated .357 SIG semiautomatic carbine. Much more sensible than trying to self-load a long, rimmed sixgun cartridge like the .357 Magnum. Closely similar ballistics to the Magnum with 115-125 grain bullets.

(There was passing mention of a .357 SIG Mech-Tech pistol conversion above.)

I'm not much interested in .357 SIG handguns, but a Beretta Storm or similar lightweight, modern carbine in that cartridge would be sweet. It shouldn't be much harder than making a carbine in .40 S&W, and there are several of those.

Make it take 15 round pistol magazines and a lot of people will adopt it as their home defense / ranch gun.

It'd be a self-loading, mag-fed, Marlin 1894C. How awesome would that be?

PS: Put good adjustable sights on it too please.

chrissmallwood
July 14, 2009, 07:03 PM
Why couldnt a magazine be built that would be similar to the magazines on .22lr pistols where you have to feed the rim through a slot cut in the feed lips. Wouldn't that alleviate the problem with rimlock by preventing the rims from being pushed behind the one under it.

Dr.Rob
July 14, 2009, 07:21 PM
Don't see why someone hasn't thought of it before, all you need is to design a rimless .357 case, and a rifle to go with it. Oh and magazines. Oh and make sure you don't load 357 "carbine" into a revolver. Wait then it becomes a different caliber, doesn't it. Hmmm.

jhco
July 14, 2009, 07:39 PM
The answer to a question no one asked

MCgunner
July 14, 2009, 07:47 PM
I'm surprised to be the first in this thread to bring up a dedicated .357 SIG semiautomatic carbine. Much more sensible than trying to self-load a long, rimmed sixgun cartridge like the .357 Magnum. Closely similar ballistics to the Magnum with 115-125 grain bullets.

Not in a rifle, I'm betting. The sig round uses faster powders that wouldn't be appropriate for a long barrel and doesn't have the case capacity for the slower, bulkier powders a .357 can shoot. The Sig can't even match the .357 in a pistol with a 125 grain bullet let alone a 158-180 grain in a rifle. I can push a 125 grain bullet to near 1600 fps in a 6.5" Ruger Blackhawk with 18.0 grains of 2400. In a rifle, I can push a 158 grain bullet to over 2000 fps with Lil' Gun. You ain't gonna do that with a sig case, just ain't gonna happen.

But, back just after the turn of the 20th century, this was thought of, old hat, been there, done that. It was called the .351 Winchester Self Loader....

http://www.associatedcontent.com/article/247888/hunting_with_the_351_winchester_self.html

P. Plainsman
July 14, 2009, 08:01 PM
Sure, and the M1 Carbine's not far off either. But neither of em comes with a Picatinny rail (though you can add one to the M1 Carbine). And it's a lot easier to find clean, current production .357 SIG ball at the store than .30 Carbine, let alone .351 Self-Loading.

Put it in a durable "tactical" package and it would sell. Ballistically, 124 gr bullet @ 1600 fps from a 16" .357 SIG carbine should be easy to achieve with standard ammo, maybe 1650 fps, and that would be a nice boost.

Ooh, how about a folding stock!

Realbigo
July 14, 2009, 08:27 PM
Ah the necromancy of a thread. I do want a .357 Lever Action myself. Ive heard nice things about Puma's

MCgunner
July 14, 2009, 08:28 PM
And, I need a picante rail for WHAT, exactly? I ain't attackin' the mall this weekend, I'm going hog hunting. :rolleyes: A real rifle makes real horsepower. A 158 JSP at 2000+ fps is barking on .35 Remington territory. Yet, I can shoot 105 grain LSWCs from .38 brass at 900 fps from the same rifle. Cool! I can go squirrel hunting and woods hunting for hogs and deer with the same rifle. I don't belong to Delta Force. If you do, perhaps you need that picante rail to hold your tortilla chips or something. :rolleyes: Me, a ghost ring aperture and I'm golden. :D

The .351 WSL was a really hot round for such a small case. It was a bit ahead of its time. It was pushing a 180 grain pill to near 2000 fps. That's pretty danged good, right there WITH the .35 Remington and .30-30 Winchester.

jordan1948
July 14, 2009, 08:32 PM
Regarding the Ruger semi-auto .44magnum. There are only 4 round mags available for it but I recall a video on youtube where a guy modified his by cutting out the bottom of them and the tops off of some Desert Eagle mags then welding them together. He made four and shot all of them in the video that functioned flawlessly. I beleive they either held 8 or 10 rounds. With that I don't think it's unreasonable to want a version of this in .357magnum. Heck I might even buy it if the price was right.

Domino
July 14, 2009, 10:03 PM
Ok, since my thread has been brought back from 4 years ago I figured I would throw a couple more ideas out and see what you guys think.

- What about a carbine like the Marlin model 60 .22lr? Tube fed semi-auto's are used all the time. The question is, if it was made cheaply enough to compete with a lever action would you want one? My only concern would be that it would have to be able to shoot the lightest and heaviest rounds reliably, which may be difficult but it is done with shotguns.

- The next idea is a little more modern. Think of something like the FN P90 in .357 magnum, so it would be a top fed, downward ejecting bullpup. Instead of the 90 degree type magazine you could have essentially 2 seperate tube magazines that are fused together in a sort of box magazine form and insert similarly to the P90 type. Where the magazine locks into the action there is essentially a "selector" that would alternate loading between the two tubes in the same way as the Neostead Shotgun magazine. This way you could probably have a 20-24 round magazine pretty easily with a 16-20" barreled rifle. Now if you could designt the magazine to incorporate 4 tubes in the magazine you could double your firepower!

Any takers on this idea???

Thanks for all the input and thread Necromancy.

jordan1948
July 14, 2009, 10:09 PM
My only concern would be that it would have to be able to shoot the lightest and heaviest rounds reliably, which may be difficult but it is done with shotguns. If you stuck with the detachable mags then this could be solved by making it a gas opperated semi-auto with an adjustable piston.

Pack
July 15, 2009, 12:19 AM
I am utterly intrigued by the the idea of adopting an operating system akin to the FNP90 to use as a .357 magnum carbine. I absolutely would buy one.

It would be, dare I say, FN awesome! :rolleyes:

Seriously, though - THAT is a great idea. Well done!

Lone_Gunman
July 15, 2009, 12:48 AM
I guess no one ever hear of 351 Winchester?

P. Plainsman
July 15, 2009, 01:05 AM
Did you actually read the thread?

Dr. Tad Hussein Winslow
July 15, 2009, 01:12 AM
I had a 10mm Mech Tech upper with a dedicated Glock 20 lower, which I sold. Nice gun, handy & all, but just couldn't see a use for it really. If I'm gonna hunt, I want something slightly more powerful, and if I'm gonna use a carbine for self-defense, it'll be a more powerful round also. But that was closest thing to a .357 semi.

That and this one - it's pretty fast and in .357 mag:

http://www.thehighroad.org/attachment.php?attachmentid=100292&d=1245900358

gman17
September 14, 2010, 01:46 PM
I do agree with your comment Pauli.
But, it would still be fun.

gman17
September 14, 2010, 01:48 PM
Heard anything good or bad about the Rossi Ranch Hand?

gunnutery
September 14, 2010, 11:48 PM
Since we're adding on to a five year old thread...

The comment about converting a FN PS90 to .357 mag got me thinking. According to Wikipedia, the overall length of each cartridge (including bullet) is 40.5mm for the 5.7x28 and 40mm for the .357. It sounds to me that such an adaptation by FN is very possible.

I've already got a few other wants on my "to get" list, but I'd definately put a .357 mag PS90 on the list.

desidog
September 15, 2010, 12:07 AM
Time helps some things, but not rimmed cartridges in autoloaders.

With all of the advancements in technology since this thread began, perhaps new ideas should make new threads?

FourteenMiles
September 15, 2010, 12:56 AM
I would buy a semi-auto .357 in a second. Especially if there was an handgun carbine combo; make that half a second. Actually I've been contemplating this idea for a while but was keeping it secret 'cause I though I was avant garde...guess not.

gunnutery
September 15, 2010, 04:05 AM
Time helps some things, but not rimmed cartridges in autoloaders.

What about the Bren gun? Or the Ruger Deerfield? Or the Lewis MG? I haven't heard too many complaints on any of them. I realize that the Deerfield didn't last on the market all that long but those that have them seem to like them.

I think instead of looking at a great proven cartridge, like the .357 magnum, companies these days just try to come up with a new cartridge that simulates or "improves" the old cartridge, which IMO is just the downfall of whatever new platform being pushed.

JFrame
September 15, 2010, 08:46 AM
Based on the comments on this thread, I guess I'm in the minority of folks who think a semiauto carbine in .357 would be the Cat's Meow... :)

I have a Winchester Trapper in .357, and a semiauto in the same chambering would make a nice companion piece. For that matter, a pump action in the Timberwolf mold would be nice also...

I live in a fairly built-up suburban area, and it's not that convenient getting to a rifle range. But I can pop off all day long with a pistol-caliber carbine at my local indoor range 10 minutes away (albeit at a max 25 yards...).

.

TonyRumore
September 15, 2010, 08:50 AM
You could run the .357 mag in an AR-15 using a Desert Eagle magazine.
Here's one of six that I made many years ago in 44 Rem Mag.

Tony Rumore
Tromix

http://i98.photobucket.com/albums/l246/TonyRumore/Rifles/Adams44.jpg

Jason_W
September 15, 2010, 09:23 AM
How hard would it be to just make a rimless version of the .357 mag case? I'm thinking the rimless version could still be used in revolvers with the aid of moon clips.

gunnutery
September 16, 2010, 12:20 AM
Tony, perhaps you can expell this thinking that the rimmed casing won't work in semi-auto rifles. How has your .44 mag AR held up? It looks pretty sweet (and I'm not an AR guy).

roscoe
September 16, 2010, 05:02 PM
A traditional looking rifle with a tube magazine that held 10 rounds of .357, but in semi-auto action would be a great rifle, especially in CA. Probably would have to use some variant of the HL roller-lock design to avoid having a third tube for gas, however. Or the gas tube could go under the grip. Either way, if it looked like an old Winchester Trapper, say, but without the lever, I think it would sell.

Marshall
September 16, 2010, 10:45 PM
I think I would just a-soon have the .30 Carbine round itself improved upon and watch the .30 carbine firearm offerings improve.

GarrettJ
January 2, 2011, 09:39 PM
This picture has been floating around for the past 10 or 15 years. Supposedly it was taken somewhere in Europe or the Middle East.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v632/GarrettJ/Desert%20Eagle/deserteagle14inch03.jpg

R.W.Dale
January 2, 2011, 09:42 PM
http://www.gunbroker.com/Auction/ViewItem.aspx?Item=199210962

rmund
January 3, 2011, 08:47 PM
I am wondering what it would take to convert a savage/stevens to the rimless 357 auto mag other than a new barrel....assuming you use the 308 boltface ....you could load 300 grain bullets ala whisper speeds subsonics and use 125-158 for deer loads.

alchemist11
November 1, 2011, 08:05 PM
This thread is too good to die! The .357 mag is one of my fave cartridges. I'd buy a semi auto .357 mag in a heart beat. It would be a great small game rifle, personal defense carbine, plinker, and with 180 grain hornadys a great deer, hog, and black bear rifle. Lemag use to converted M1 carbines to .357. He had a super reputation but was a real jerk to deal with and never put up a website. So converting M1's is possible. I wish ruger would make a 99/357. Oh well, guess I'll just dream!

lonestardiver
November 1, 2011, 09:04 PM
A semi in .357 mag would be fun...

I like the paired carbines/handguns chambered in the same cartridge when out in the brush. Thus my ruger deerfield (old tube mag) and my model 29 or Dan Wesson 44 mag, great combo for hog hunting...

A converted m1 carbine would be fun...

Brian Williams
November 1, 2011, 09:41 PM
I would love a Semi in 357 Mag. That said I would also like a 357 thumper, 357-223rem, 357 Maximum Auto, 9mm Hell-N-Damnation, whatever you call it, a 357 loaded in a blown out 223/5.56 with an OAL that would fit in an AR mag. You could use a 223 shell holder and 357 Maximum dies to load the thing, it would thump, probably would need some work with the gas hole in the barrel to get it to work, but I think it could be done. Think 180gr pointed soft points running around 2000 to 2500 fps (just a SWAG)

scramasax
November 2, 2011, 12:53 AM
Just start emailing Coonan. Tell them you want a .357 mag carbine using thier magazines that looks like a WINCHESTER .351. My Coonan 1911 style auto has worked perfectly
for 10 Years. A matching carbine would be awsome. I already have lever guns.

Cheers,

ts

Panzercat
November 2, 2011, 10:49 AM
honestly, i don't see the point. we've got revolver rounds for lever/pump guns, and semi auto pistol rounds for semi auto carbines. not much call for crossover.

Just like you have carbines in .45. You can get them in pistols and revolvers and lever guns, but there's obviously a market for them in ARs and Hi-point carbines. Hell, anytime anybody asks for a SD levergun, the .357 ALWAYS comes up. I'm thinking a carbine in .357 would have its place too.

BCCL
November 2, 2011, 05:56 PM
Wasn't there a company in the 80's that tried to market M1 carbines converted to .357 magnum, but just couldn't get over some jamming problems??

If you enjoyed reading about "Semi-Auto .357 carbine" here in TheHighRoad.org archive, you'll LOVE our community. Come join TheHighRoad.org today for the full version!