US Military surplus rifles


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CAnnoneer
November 17, 2005, 01:19 AM
How come I have not seen any US military surplus rifles? Can it be that while Russians, Serbians, etc. have tons of surplus to sell, our own military don't?

What happened to all M1s, M1Cs, BARs, M14s, etc?

Also, does anyone know if there is a civilian semi-auto-only version of the BAR, preferably stainless?

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swingset
November 17, 2005, 01:35 AM
Ask your government....they're the ones who forbid surplusing US weapons to it's own citizens.

Lend Lease weapons can be sold through the CMP, M1 Garands, 03's, P17's etc. But that's about it.

Rumor has it the State Dept. is relaxing this restriction for a short time and some foreign soil US weapons can be reimported, but I haven't heard if that's really going to happen or not.

ocabj
November 17, 2005, 01:40 AM
Ask your government....they're the ones who forbid surplusing US weapons to it's own citizens.

USGI surplus Garands, 1903s, and 03A3s have been sold by the DCM/CMP for decades, and at this moment in time, still are (but the CMP supply is dwindling).

Actual "lend lease" Garands are uncommon. If you ever found an authentic Garand with lend lease markings and traceable history, it would be worth acquiring.

M1C and M1Ds are also fairly rare, especially with the proper M82(?) scope. The GCA reported that the CMP has new in wrap, unissued M1Ds with scopes, and they will be auctioned off. If you can get a copy of the latest GCA journal (I believe it was in the most recent issue), there are photographs of some of the unissued M1Ds the CMP has.

M1 Carbines were sold by the DCM/CMP a long time ago, but not anymore. Considering more M1 Carbines were manufactured than M1 Garands, I'm actually surprised that more aren't available. Maybe someone with more expertise on the history of the M1 Carbine can comment.

M14s are still in use by the modern US military. Even if they do get phased out, they won't be surplused for civilian purchases due to the fact that ATF pretty much goes by the rule, "once a automatic weapon, always an automatic weapon." So even if the US military surpluses M14s to the CMP, they would be considered Class III automatic weapons even if the CMP were to modify them for semi-auto only.

If the US military were to phase out the M14 and surplus the rifles to the CMP, the CMP could theoretically disassemble the USGI M14 rifles and (1) rebuild them using commercially made civilian M14/M1A receivers or (2) sell off the parts except for the receviers. The parts off USGI M14 rifles are valuable alone considering USGI M14 parts are becoming hard to acquire, and it's the non-USGI, aftermarket parts that are out of spec that are causing the problems experienced in the current SA, Inc M1A rifles.

mr.trooper
November 17, 2005, 01:49 AM
USGI surplus Garands, 1903s, and 03A3s have been sold by the DCM/CMP for decades, and at this moment in time, still are (but the CMP supply is dwindling).

Actual "lend lease" Garands are uncommon. If you ever found an authentic Garand with lend lease markings and traceable history, it would be worth acquiring.

M1C and M1Ds are also fairly rare, especially with the proper M82(?) scope. The GCA reported that the CMP has new in wrap, unissued M1Ds with scopes, and they will be auctioned off. If you can get a copy of the latest GCA journal (I believe it was in the most recent issue), there are photographs of some of the unissued M1Ds the CMP has.

M1 Carbines were sold by the DCM/CMP a long time ago, but not anymore.

M14s are still in use by the modern US military. Even if they do get phased out, they won't be surplused for civilian purchases due to the fact that ATF pretty much goes by the rule, "once a automatic weapon, always an automatic weapon." So even if the US military surpluses M14s to the CMP, they would be considered Class III automatic weapons even if the CMP were to modify them for semi-auto only.


correct me if im wrong, but arent M14s semi auto anyway? The select fire prototypes were deemed impractical due to uncontrollability.

ocabj
November 17, 2005, 01:55 AM
correct me if im wrong, but arent M14s semi auto anyway? The select fire prototypes were deemed impractical due to uncontrollability.

Nope. The M14 has always been select fire (safe, semi, or full auto).

30Cal
November 17, 2005, 02:02 AM
Nope. The M14 has always been select fire (safe, semi, or full auto).
Capable of select fire anyways. The three that we had on the boat I was on had selector locks, not selector switches.

dfariswheel
November 17, 2005, 02:10 AM
In "the Good ol' Days", the DCM (Director of Civilian Marksmanship) sold US surplus firearms to NRA members, and supplied guns and ammo to DCM-affiliated gun clubs for use by the Junior shooters.

WAY back, you could buy Trapdoor Springfield's for about $2.50.
1917 Enfield's were around $7.50.
1903, and 1903-A3 Springfield's were around $15.00.
US-made Russian Mosin Nagant rifles sold for something like $2.50.

In the 60's you could buy M1 Carbines for $20.00.....$17.50 for the carbine, $2.50 for the UPS shipping.
A 600 round "ham can" of carbine ammo was 2 cents a round.
1911 .45's were $25.00.
M1 rifles in the 1980's were $165.00, cheaper in previous years.

Unfortunately, there will be NO M-14 rifles sold.
The M-14 was made as a full-auto receiver, even though most never had the selector switch installed allowing full-auto fire.

According to the Federal government and the ATF "Once a machine gun, ALWAYS a machine gun".

Kurush
November 17, 2005, 02:18 AM
Also, does anyone know if there is a civilian semi-auto-only version of the BAR, preferably stainless?Ohio Ordnance Works.

Jeff White
November 17, 2005, 08:33 AM
What happened to all M1s, M1Cs, BARs, M14s, etc?

There were not that many M1Cs and M1Ds produced. BARs would be unobtainable because they weren't on the registry before May '86. The same for M14s. Also there were not that many M14s produced. The lines were shut down well before enough of them were made to equip the US military. We sold many of the ones that were made to Taiwan, Honduras, The Phillipines and some other countries through the foreign military sales program. Even if BATF would allow them to be sold as semi rifles, I doubt there are that many left. I have heard, but not verified, that we've just about pulled all we had out of storage.

Jeff

George S.
November 17, 2005, 06:47 PM
Capable of select fire anyways. The three that we had on the boat I was on had selector locks, not selector switches.

We had a few M14 rifles in my unit in RVN that were equipped with a selector "switch" that the unit armorer could easily remove or install with his tools. I had always thought that the M14 with the full-auto capability was the then-current version of the BAR carried by infantry squads. But IIRC, the little switch only had two positions: semi or full-auto.

Infidel
November 17, 2005, 07:07 PM
All M-14s were capable of full-auto. That was one of the design features. As George S. said, unit armorers could install/remove the selector switches. The selector switch is on the right side of the receiver, toward the rear. The safety is a Garand safety, in the front top of the triggerguard. They are independent controls.

Crosshair
November 17, 2005, 07:49 PM
Arn't the full auto parts in the trigger group that is seperate from the reciever?:confused:

DMK
November 17, 2005, 07:50 PM
How come I have not seen any US military surplus rifles? Can it be that while Russians, Serbians, etc. have tons of surplus to sell, our own military don't?
Many of the communist countries stockpiled huge numbers of weapons for many decades, then finally recently sold them as surplus to foreigners. The U.S. didn't stockpile as much. When a weapon was considered obsolete, many were surplused. Many U.S. service weapons were sold during downsizing after WWI, WWII, and Korea. The U.S. also gave many weapons to foreign governments. Some were lent and returned. Some were lent and never returned. Many, many M1 carbines were given to ARVN, Taiwan, Phillipines, S. Korea, etc.

In the 20s, 30s, 40s and 50s, it was easier to get surplus U.S. arms that it was to get foreign arms. A lot of Krags and Springfields were sporterized into hunting rifles.

Detritus
November 17, 2005, 08:49 PM
Arn't the full auto parts in the trigger group that is seperate from the reciever?:confused:

Nope, not on an M-14 all the parts that "make it a machine gun" are on the receiver. otherwise dropping a USGI trigger group into an M1A would make an NFA item.

NMshooter
November 17, 2005, 09:00 PM
Most of the stuff that did not end up given away or sold to foreign governments met a bandsaw the hard way.:(

Including stuff like a number of Winchester 1897 trench guns in the Santa Fe armory that were destroyed a couple years ago.

Lithuania ended up with a number of M-14 rifles, just to name one example.

So, no, there are no giant secret stashes of old firearms in the US waiting for some change in the laws so that they can be sold. There are some rifles in South Korea, among other places, that cannot be brought back into the country now, that could if some laws were changed...

Well, if they have not already been brought back as parts kits.

glockamolee
November 18, 2005, 01:29 AM
Bill Clintons Administration had them Torch Cut::fire:

wallysparx
November 18, 2005, 02:36 PM
In "the Good ol' Days", the DCM (Director of Civilian Marksmanship) sold US surplus firearms to NRA members, and supplied guns and ammo to DCM-affiliated gun clubs for use by the Junior shooters.

WAY back, you could buy Trapdoor Springfield's for about $2.50.
1917 Enfield's were around $7.50.
1903, and 1903-A3 Springfield's were around $15.00.
US-made Russian Mosin Nagant rifles sold for something like $2.50.

In the 60's you could buy M1 Carbines for $20.00.....$17.50 for the carbine, $2.50 for the UPS shipping.
A 600 round "ham can" of carbine ammo was 2 cents a round.
1911 .45's were $25.00.
M1 rifles in the 1980's were $165.00, cheaper in previous years.

Unfortunately, there will be NO M-14 rifles sold.
The M-14 was made as a full-auto receiver, even though most never had the selector switch installed allowing full-auto fire.

According to the Federal government and the ATF "Once a machine gun, ALWAYS a machine gun".
i believe it safe to say a lot of us younger folks are much better off not knowing what we were missing. :cuss:

alamo
November 18, 2005, 02:50 PM
i believe it safe to say a lot of us younger folks are much better off not knowing what we were missing. :cuss:

Makes you sick to your stomach to see those prices.

In some ways though, these have been the "good ole days" too the past few years. Look at the deals there have been on milsurp Enfields, Mausers, K31s, various Russian rifles, etc.

In 20-30 years, we'll be talking about the 98K we got for $180 or the Enfield Mk. 4 No. 1 for $100.

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