How can a Glock 18 be legal?


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mindpilot
November 18, 2005, 06:12 AM
I was looking at the stats on this thing and its a full Auto pistol, very cool! But isnt that like a machine gun? and arent they illegal to sell, buy to general citizens like myself with a COnceal and Carry license?

If not....WHERE DO I GET ONE OF THESE BABIES!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! :what:

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Shootcraps
November 18, 2005, 07:25 AM
You can't get one. Glock restricts them to military and leo.

mindpilot
November 18, 2005, 07:37 AM
OH OK, they rent them at the local gun range and they are unreal!!

pokey074
November 18, 2005, 07:52 AM
Someone will correct me if I'm wrong, but I don't believe there are any transferable (pre-'86) G18's.

SDC
November 18, 2005, 08:07 AM
I believe there are only a few transferable GENUINE G18s in the US now, but there are/were a number of conversions or conversion kits that were available before the 86 cut-off. Most of the ones you'll see for rent are actually dealer samples that were imported for police agencies, but those can't now be transferred to a private owner.

Sistema1927
November 18, 2005, 10:39 AM
Let's correct a fallacy in the original post:

It is NOT illegal for a US citizen to own a machinegun. (on a federal level, some state and jurisdictions will deny ownership.)

(Lots of hoops to jump through, but not illegal.)

mindpilot
November 18, 2005, 10:49 AM
I know MN is a state that does allow people to have them. Therir are soemthing like 10,000 registered out there. I am wondering what other types are more popular then that G18 that people would have. I have seeen the pre ban UZI at gunshows and have shot them and find them to be alot more accurate as they are a Heavier gun.

El Tejon
November 18, 2005, 12:10 PM
mind, you are likely seeing Glock 18s owned by SOTs (Special Occupational Taxpayers).

ACP230
November 18, 2005, 12:30 PM
I shot a FA converted Glock 34 at the shop of the gunsmith who built it.
He has a manufacturer's and dealer's license so is a SOT, as mentioned above.

The FA Glock was a lot of fun and the only Glock I've shot that I actually liked. I put a hurt on the old plastic bucket he had out for a target with it, shooting three and four round bursts.

boofus
November 18, 2005, 12:38 PM
If I remember correctly MN is a Curio & Relic only state for MGs. So there won't be any Uzis or M16s or any kind of modern gun in private hands unless they have some kind of historic value.

Common C&R machineguns include: Reising M50, Sten SMGs and Thompsons. I did see a C&R M60 for sale on a forum but it was $65,000 and a one-of-a-kind prototype from government trials.

P95Carry
November 18, 2005, 01:49 PM
Managed to put a few mags thru one of these a while ago - courtesy of a Glock rep' - what a tool!!:)

On another thread dealing with recoil pics etc - one very nice vid I found was this one - Slo-Mo of G18 (http://www.bsg-dornier.de/schiessen/filme/hsp/glock18_cut.mpg). Cyclic rate is very impressive and I found the thing more controllable than expected.

TimboKhan
November 18, 2005, 04:10 PM
I shot one at a machinegun shoot here in Colorado and it was a blast. They are not illegal to own, as long as you are in possession of a class III firearms license. For that matter, its not illegal to own or fire ANY machinegun that I am aware of if you have that license. Where I shoot at on the Pawnee, there is an old boy that breaks out his M-60 every once in awhile. The last time I was there, when the sheriff pulled up to say hello to everyone and remind them to pick up their trash, the guy ended up letting the sheriff run a belt through it. Pretty decent guys actually, they let Rockstar.Esq use thier chrono, which was pretty dangerous as outside of 6 inches, they ran a serious risk of him putting a round or two right through the thing. :neener:

Kend
November 19, 2005, 04:20 PM
Several years ago I was told there were only 6 transferable 18's in the US, I don't know if there's any truth to it.

KriegHund
November 19, 2005, 04:24 PM
It isnt.

Sorry, i wish it were...

SouthpawShootr
November 19, 2005, 07:02 PM
If you become a Glock LE dealer AND a licensed machine gun dealer (2 different FFLs), then you will probably be able to get a dealer sample out of Glock for the purpose of allowing potential customers to try it out. Of course you'll get to shoot it as much as you want also.:D

Jeff22
November 23, 2005, 07:05 AM
It is perfectly legal under FEDERAL law for a private citizen to own fully automatic firearms or noise supressors. Only weapons made prior of May of 1986 are allowed to be transfered to a private person.

You need a Class 3 permit for EACH weapon. $200 (one time) fee. Getting a permit also involves a national agency check (they run your fingerprints through NCIC) and the chief law enforcement officer of your area has to approve of your ownership of the weapon. (I got the Sheriff to sign for my Uzi) The weapon has to be transferred through a licensed Class 3 dealer -- you just can't sell it at the gun show.

Many states do not allow private ownership of Class 3 weapons. Even in those that do, some jurisdictions will not sign off on a class 3 permit, and they don't have to if they don't want to, and there is no recourse.

mindpilot
November 23, 2005, 07:09 AM
gotcha! Thx. would love ot have an Uzi

Hkmp5sd
November 23, 2005, 08:37 AM
Only weapons made prior of May of 1986 are allowed to be transfered to a private person.


Applies to machineguns only.

You need a Class 3 permit for EACH weapon. $200 (one time) fee.

It is not a "permit". You pay a one-time transfer TAX. The documentation shows you have paid that tax. There are no permits involved.

The weapon has to be transferred through a licensed Class 3 dealer -- you just can't sell it at the gun show.


You can sell in directly to another person in your state without using a NFA dealer. Just do the paperwork.


and the chief law enforcement officer of your area has to approve of your ownership of the weapon.

If the CLEO refuses to sign for you, you can form a corporation and bypass the CLEO signature. A corporation can buy NFA items without photos, fingerprints or CLEO autographs.

El Tejon
November 23, 2005, 11:30 AM
HK, thanks for those clarifications! They include some of my pet peeves ("Class III permit").:D I know they usually mean a Form 4 but it just bugs me.

Another one if I may, the dealer is "Class III", not the weapon. The weapon is Title I or Title II.

When crime was abolished in 1968 under the Safe Streets Act, the National Firearms Act of 1934 was recodified to Title II of the SSA. Title I firearms=non-NFA; Title II firearms=NFA.

CleverNickname
November 23, 2005, 02:29 PM
Some jurisdictions will not sign off on a class 3 permit, and they don't have to if they don't want to, and there is no recourse.

Correct, but in every state where machine guns are legal (other than NC), it's possible to bypass the CLEO signature requirement by starting a corporation or trust and having it possess the gun(s). How hard it is to set up and maintain a corporation depends on your state. Here in Texas an LLC is $200 to start, and a long as you don't have any profits (a corporation that just possess firearms won't), there's no tax due each year. It takes me 15 minutes a year to do my corporate taxes. Plus, transfers are quicker because there's no fingerprints to process, and you don't have to go through the hassle of getting the fingerprints taken in the first place.

Strings
November 24, 2005, 08:43 PM
>Many states do not allow private ownership of Class 3 weapons. Even in those that do, some jurisdictions will not sign off on a class 3 permit, and they don't have to if they don't want to, and there is no recourse.<

I may be wrong, but I think that depends on jurisdiction. It's my understanding that the CLEO can't just decide "no... you can't have it": they are supposed to have a legitimate reason, such as "it's illegal in this city/county"...

Here in WI, we have a preemption law (meaning no municipality or county can have a law more restrictive than the state's). There's no state-level law against NFA. SO... seems to me that, if my CLEO doesn't want to sign off on a Form 4, I COULD take him to court to force the issue. Haven't checked that with an attorney yet, and I'd imagine the cost would be SERIOUSLY prohibitive...

Hkmp5sd
November 24, 2005, 09:00 PM
I may be wrong, but I think that depends on jurisdiction. It's my understanding that the CLEO can't just decide "no... you can't have it": they are supposed to have a legitimate reason, such as "it's illegal in this city/county"...

Yes, they can. There is no recourse. The CLEO can refuse and give no reason. If the CLEO is a politcal animal, it is possible to bring pressure to make him sign, such as suing the city and/or county commission. This works especially well if you have a CLEO that has signed off for a few friends, but blocks everyone else. To date, the courts have never ordered a CLEO to sign a Form 4.

Plus, the CLEO isn't really a single person. It can be the Chief of Police, Sheriff, District Attorney, certain judges, head of state police and "any other person designated by the director (of ATF)." Just keep going up the food chain and maybe someone will sign. The director has in the past authorized FBI agents and other federal law enforcement agents in the person's area to sign as CLEO. It takes a personal appeal to the director and a director that happens to be pro-gun.

Strings
November 25, 2005, 12:19 AM
Ok... I learned something new today. Which means today wasn't COMPLETELY wasted... ;)

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