I hate gun store know-nothings!


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The Real Hawkeye
November 21, 2005, 03:39 PM
I have had too many such encounters in the past week to stand anymore. The other day I come in and asked one of them if they sold that estate sale external hammer double shotgun that came in recently, because I didn't see it in the rack behind the counter where they keep their high value used guns. He said, "Did you check the used gun rack?" I explained to him that it would not be there, as it is a high value piece. He demanded with an attitude that it would be, since that's where all the used guns go. Then I saw the manager and asked her if she sold it, and she said that it hadn't been priced yet, and that when she did price it, "it will be over there," she pointed to a rack behind the counter, "and not in the used gun section." I was glad she said this in front of the know-nothing.

Today I came in again and asked the same know-nothing about Light Magnum ammo for .30-06. He proceeded to "explain" to me that there was no such thing because they'd never put the word magnum on .30-06 ammo. Then I saw the gunsmith and asked him if they had any, and he said "of course." Again the know-nothing was there to hear it, which is good. I asked him if he had 180 grainers, to which he replied, "They don't make 180 grainers in the Light Magnums." To which I informed him that they did. He insisted, with an attitude, that they didn't, and I offered to bet the clean Inland M1 Carbine that was sitting on the gun rack over there that they did indeed make it. He didn't take me up on it, but just went to the computer to prove that they didn't. Naturally, they do make it.

Now, I don't mind gun store people not knowing something, but what bothers me is gun store people who don't know something but are sure they do, and that you don't, and no matter how many times they are proven wrong keep making the same mistake and getting proven wrong over and over, never learning that you know a little something about what has been your primary hobby since you were eight, now being forty-four. You have to come to them as if they were the local oracle of gun-related knowledge or they will take an attitude with you, and if you prove them wrong they take even more of an attitude with you, rather than realizing their mistake in assuming they knew more and you less.

Does this get under anyone else's skin, or am I being over sensitive?

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one45auto
November 21, 2005, 04:00 PM
What gets under my skin are gun store know-it-all's. About two weeks or so ago I was in a local gun shop talking to the counter clerk about the Glock .45ACP series and causually mentioned the feeding problems I've had with my Glock 36. Of course he immediately puffed up, got all cocky, and proceeded to tell me how I must have been limp-wristing the gun. :rolleyes:

I replied that that wasn't the case, and that even one of the Glock service personnel confided that the slimmer slide can cause problems with lighter loads - at least until the spring wears in. (I was shooting the 230gr whereas the factory uses the Blazer 185gr.) However he kept insisting that that was misinformation, and that I must have been limp-wristing the piece. When I stated that I always kept a firm grip upon the weapon he proceeded to tell me that grip doesn't matter, it's the wrist that counts. Well, duh, but try clutching something tightly and see if you can keep your wrist loose - it's physically impossible! What an unmitigated idiot. :cuss:

Polishrifleman
November 21, 2005, 04:05 PM
It would probably get under my skin more since it is a private dealer. Was he new? That does not excuse the bad attitude toward a customer but could help with the lack of knowledge and store policy on expensive used guns. It sounds like he might be related to ownership.

What I don't understand is all the Wal-Mart bashing that goes on. I would think a lot of us would just be happy that wally world provides us a place to go. They can always stop carrying guns, ammo etc.. in the sporting goods section and then who can we blame but ourselves for always bashing and not taking a moment to be thankful such a place still exists across the country.

Do we think that they would actually be able to hire and pay someone with the knowledge that we would like to see? Hopefully someone that smart would be long gone from minnimum wage.

caduckgunner
November 21, 2005, 04:17 PM
We have a whole chain of stores full of them in SoCal. It's called Turners:cuss:

rustymaggot
November 21, 2005, 04:20 PM
this problem isnt just at gun stores. the world is filling up with stupid people who think they know everything. ive known a few gunshops that were very very bad. luckily i found a shop i trust and the guys in it are not afraid to say they dont know if they dont really know.

now a related but off topic rant........auto parts stores and motorcycle shops tick me off the most. when a shop tells me they can get me the part i need and then after having to prepay for it before they are willing to order it. i wait 5 weeks calling them every 3 or 4 days asking if the part is there and they keep saying its sure to be in tomorrow. at the 5 weeks mark i actually drive out to the shop and demand to know where my part is after half an hour of trying to figure out the computer the clerk tells me the part is discontinued. then they tell me there is a 20 percent restocking fee on a part they couldnt even get me. i had to get a manager involved to get my full money back.

EddieCoyle
November 21, 2005, 05:16 PM
this problem isnt just at gun stores. the world is filling up with stupid people who think they know everything.

Remember, half the people in the world have below-average intelligence, and every last one of them thinks that they are smarter than they really are.

f4t9r
November 21, 2005, 07:50 PM
Its not what you say , Its how you say it

People with a attitude get under my skin

Topgun
November 21, 2005, 08:47 PM
Also don't forget that patronizing Walmart helps China which helps kill jobs here which helps divorces which helps kids to not have dads which helps the kids to NEVER learn about guns.

It's a complicated chain. America is now so "busy" that they don't have time to study what's happening to them.

Broken families and single moms and low paying jobs and an economy based on services instead of manufacturing is one more reason why we are losing our gun rights slowly but surely.

It's all over the country. There aren't even any gun SHOPS left. THAT was where you could get good info (at times) but now they're gone. Replaced by ignorance and needy underpaid help.

:(

Standing Wolf
November 21, 2005, 08:49 PM
Not everybody's bright enough to flip hamburgers and put French fries in little cardboard containers.

Farnham
November 21, 2005, 09:28 PM
this problem isnt just at gun stores. the world is filling up with stupid people who think they know everything.

I keep telling people this is what'll happen with all the seat belt laws, helmet laws, no smoking laws, jaywalking laws, speed limits, airbags, OSHA, the EPA, Poison Control Hotlines, Suicide Hotlines, 911, and welfare.

We've finally created the only society in history that protects (and occasionally, rewards) morons. Be stupid enough to spill coffee on your lap, and you're set for life. Have more kids than you can support, and the system ups your monthly check. Crash your car while driving too fast and/or drunk, have your life saved by an airbag, and sue the car company for ruining your nose job.

Once upon a time, idiots got Darwinized, and we just shook our heads and tsk tsk'd, now we pass a law to keep their idiot offspring alive. Make the world sharp, pointy, hard, slippery, and electrified again, this fuzzy, fluffy s--t is making me sick.

S/F

Farnham

PS: I'm only partially kidding.

PPS: Before you get offended, I'm ranting. Get over it, Nancy. :evil:

Bridger
November 21, 2005, 09:38 PM
Pretty much every gun store I've been to in my area is like that or at least has employees like that. I hadn't really noticed the past year since I was mostly buying C&Rs with my license, but went to get a new shotgun earlier this year and ended up just tuning the sales guy out since I knew what I was looking for anyway.

Hawkmoon
November 21, 2005, 09:50 PM
I wish I could remember the source, but it was a number of years ago ... before Al Gore had invented the Internet. Some psychologist (or group thereof) did a study comparing competence at work with people's perceptions of their own competence. It probably won't surprise many people here, but it did surprise the psychologists, that the most competent people tended to rate themselves lowest in ability, and the least competent people universally rated themselves as superlative.

The conclusion being that those who are competent recognize that they are less than perfect and acknowledge room for improvement. Whereas those who are incompetent are so stupid that they cannot even recognize that they are stupid.

Of course, we knew that ... but isn't it nice to know that it's been scientifically proven?

Kodiaz
November 21, 2005, 10:11 PM
Darwinized where do I send the royalties when I use that one. Thank you very much.


Looters will be Darwinized. I like it

LightningJoe
November 21, 2005, 10:15 PM
Make the world sharp, pointy, hard, slippery, and electrified again, this fuzzy, fluffy s--t is making me sick.



Well, we've still got car wrecks and abortion, so cheer up.

gremlin_bros
November 21, 2005, 10:19 PM
what i cant figure out is this crap of i go in and ask for a specfic item i know exactly what i want and the idot says they dont carry it any more as i am looking at what i want right behind the counter and then he trys to sell me somthing else totaly diffrent this happened with a small rifle i wanted an ar-7 this small rifle is a copy of the sruvival rifle used in the military for piolts im sitting there looking at one behind the counter price taged and all so i ask the guy to see one (they had several like 5 of them in diffrent finishes) oh they dont make it any more but then he trys to sell me several diffrent guns such as a model 60 marlin a ruger 10-22 and the new hwnery thats a 410 22 over under saying its what i realy want i got so tired of his crap and said no i know what i want then pointed out the 5 rifles right behind him and he looks at me like a dog listens to a high piched sound i finaly walked over to the manager told her the problem i was having that i couldnt get any service told her of the incident and informed her i would nolonger be shopping in thier store and would be informing people of the "service" i didnt recieve and the argumanative manor of the staff the manager then proceded to try to give me some discounts on equipment etc.etc. and i simply told her no i dont expect the salesman to know everything thats impossable but i do expect so respect and it isnt bad to look at a customer and say i dont know or i am unfamilar with that product but i can check the computer or find sombody who is more knowlageable in that subject to help then stick around and listen and god forbid learn somthing heavens no we cant learn from a customer they arnt smart enough to know what there talking about


sorry about the last part with all the sarcasm

ps. this happend several years ago and today that gunstore is out of busness go figure

carp killer
November 21, 2005, 11:03 PM
I think there are morons on both sides of the counter. It must be a real riot to listen to some fat assed bubba mall ninja security guard talking b.s. to the arrogant know-nothing brother of the owner gun store clerk.:p

M-Rex
November 21, 2005, 11:13 PM
what i cant figure out is this crap of i go in and ask for a specfic item i know exactly what i want and the idot says they dont carry it any more as i am looking at what i want right behind the counter and then he trys to sell me somthing else totaly diffrent this happened with a small rifle i wanted an ar-7 this small rifle is a copy of the sruvival rifle used in the military for piolts im sitting there looking at one behind the counter price taged and all so i ask the guy to see one (they had several like 5 of them in diffrent finishes) oh they dont make it any more but then he trys to sell me several diffrent guns such as a model 60 marlin a ruger 10-22 and the new hwnery thats a 410 22 over under saying its what i realy want i got so tired of his crap and said no i know what i want then pointed out the 5 rifles right behind him and he looks at me like a dog listens to a high piched sound i finaly walked over to the manager told her the problem i was having that i couldnt get any service told her of the incident and informed her i would nolonger be shopping in thier store and would be informing people of the "service" i didnt recieve and the argumanative manor of the staff the manager then proceded to try to give me some discounts on equipment etc.etc. and i simply told her no i dont expect the salesman to know everything thats impossable but i do expect so respect and it isnt bad to look at a customer and say i dont know or i am unfamilar with that product but i can check the computer or find sombody who is more knowlageable in that subject to help then stick around and listen and god forbid learn somthing heavens no we cant learn from a customer they arnt smart enough to know what there talking about


sorry about the last part with all the sarcasm

ps. this happend several years ago and today that gunstore is out of busness go figure


Um...

...do you realize that was all one sentence?;)

Geno
November 21, 2005, 11:23 PM
This past summer I bought five (5) Kimbers...three (3) of them were Custom Shop models, and four had to be returned defective. I heard over and over "limp wrist". Odd, my Colts never suffered from my "limp wrists". Seems some people can simply not accept that they do not possess all knowledge. Nor can they accept that others know as much or perhaps even more than they. Well, I corrected my limp wrist problem...I sold my Kimbers and bought Colts! I did buy one new Kimber, a Warrior with the Series I safety and internal extractor. My Colts never failed in well over 5,000 rounds now. My Glock 17 has never failed...well over 5,000 rounds. I have to keep my Warrior pretty clean. But, it can go the first 100 or so rounds with no problems...that's good enough for my purposes, because I always carry two pistols anyhow. Limp wrists...bah-ha! By the way, thanks for the FYI on the G36. I think I'll stick with a G30 if I get a .45 ACP.

Doc2005

Archie
November 21, 2005, 11:48 PM
I must protest the comments about "Turner's" in California. The store in Signal Hill has several salespeople who are fairly conversant with firearms. Another couple are willing to learn from the fat guy with the fedora from time to time. In short, they are reasonable.

There have been a couple goobers, but they don't seem to last long.

No current information about any of the other Turner's.

Rexrider
November 22, 2005, 12:12 AM
Don't forget...
For every stupid person with an attitude behind the counter, somewhere in the world, there is a person equally stupid with an attitude in front of the counter.

Having said that, good customer service dictates the customer is always right and if a stupid customer is encountered, it should be considered an opportunity to educate said customer if they are willing to listen (which they usually are not).

I don't think it is just with gun shops either. My expectations with customer service in general are so low at this point in my life I no longer look for it. If I can just walk out of a store without being…. um….very upset, I think I did good.

I do all the research I can on whatever widget I am looking to buy before actually buying it. The less I have to talk to a so-called sales rep the happier I end up. The best shopping experience I can hope for is saying "I will take that one" and the sales rep just rings it up without saying a word.

It is a shame it has ended up this way. But this is what we get when we want the cheapest stuff possible. Granted sometimes we can only buy what we can afford but then so many people will drive 10 miles to buy something for $5 dollars less. Since employees are typically a company's greatest expense, that is where they have to do the most trimming to compete. Paying for skills and/or training is expensive.

M-Rex
November 22, 2005, 12:47 AM
<snip>

I don't think it is just with gun shops either. My expectations with customer service in general are so low at this point in my life I no longer look for it. If I can just walk out of a store without being…. um….very upset, I think I did good.

<snip>


Sadly, I must confess. I too have settled.

jefnvk
November 22, 2005, 12:57 AM
The 'Sandwich Artist' making my meatball sub told me today very definitively that they did not carry oregano leaves. The manager told her that the oregano was in her hands.

Idiots are everywhere.

dzimmerm
November 22, 2005, 01:07 AM
My sister once mentioned this and I had to laugh.


"You who think you know it all are highly annoying to those of us who do"



Hehehe

dzimmerm

gremlin_bros
November 22, 2005, 01:54 AM
sorry about the run on when i get started on a rant i kinda lose track

M-Rex
November 22, 2005, 02:21 AM
sorry about the run on when i get started on a rant i kinda lose track

I was just kiddin' around with you. Believe me. I've done the same thing.

Sorry bro.

Lupinus
November 22, 2005, 02:34 AM
It is like that everywhere. I am quick to help but when I odnt know something I am not above saying as far as I know, IMO, or asking someone I know who knows more. And unless the guy is being a jerk don't show attitude jsut because the customer knows more then I do. Everyone, even someone who is an expert, will run into someone on occsasion who knows mroe then they do in the field they are an expert in. Either cause it is new, it is something they never had to deal with, whatever. My uncle owns his own heating and air conditioning buisness in NJ and I remember him calling my grandfather plenty for advice. Isn't because he didn't know what he was doing, simply something that he never ran into before mainly cause it was older then dirt or a method used by old timers that few people use anymore that had broken down. Reverse that and my grandfather often asked my uncle about newer systems that he wasn't sure of.

There is no shame in not knowing something. What there is shame in is trying to act like you do and in the process making yourself look like an arse.

azureflier
November 22, 2005, 04:33 AM
Remember, half the people in the world have below-average intelligence, and every last one of them thinks that they are smarter than they really are.


That's actually an oft-quoted but wholly inaccurate statement. "Half" does not mean that exactly half are below that level and half are above it. For this claim to make sense, you'd have to say that the other "half" are above average intelligence. Then who would be average intelligence? An infinitesimally small sliver of people sandwiched right between above and below?

I sure wish people would stop offering that specious reasoning.


But I agree with you in premise, anyway -- there are an awful lot of really stupid people in the world. How about those morons who think that when you merge onto a highway, you should allow your right-side wheels to follow the curve of the white line as it nudges you into the travel lane? Suuuure -- wouldn't want to merge as early as practical and leave ourselves an out, now, would we. :banghead:


-flier

alellis
November 22, 2005, 06:33 AM
Quote <sorry about the run on when i get started on a rant i kinda lose track>

I used to do a favour for an elderly neighbour once a week.

It involved a round trip of some 50 miles.

She would go off on one before her foot was even in the car and I swear she never drew a breath till we had covered 15 miles.



O yeah gunshop knowalls. yip met one or two of those.

Did you ever notice that the volume of the sentence rises as the factual content decreases.


al

Sinsaba
November 22, 2005, 06:34 AM
Also don't forget that patronizing Walmart helps China which helps kill jobs here which helps divorces which helps kids to not have dads which helps the kids to NEVER learn about guns. <snip>...

You're kidding right?

Majic
November 22, 2005, 08:47 AM
If you know he's a gun store know-nothing then why do you keep going to him with questions?

Rupestris
November 22, 2005, 09:29 AM
Since I've been using the internet and telephone more when shopping around for deals and service, I haven't had to deal with many gun shop know-nothing's.
There are plenty of places to do your research on line and get info on shops.

Most folks have a good idea what they're looking for before they go shopping. If you're looking for a deal on something used then you don't need much help from behind the counter.
When it comes to ammo and accessories, a phone call can clear things up in a hurry.

buyer - "Do you carry Light Magnum ammo for .30-06 in 180gr.?"
guy on the other end - "durrrrrrhhhhhhhhh..."
buyer - "Thanks. you've neen a big help." NEXT!

buyer - "Do you have any base model 4X2 pick-ups with an 8" bed?"
Dealer - " you don't want that. I have a Z71 super ultra crew cab XLT-GT-SS-RX-4X4 with 26 screen DVD system that is on clearance..."
Buyer - "Thanks. you've neen a big help." NEXT!

Eventually, you'll narrow down your list of business that you are willing to deal with. If you've had nothing but good service from a store and you happen to run into a new hire that doesn't know as much as you do on a particular subject, ask to speak to someone else.

Remember, if you are shopping for a holster for IDPA then you know a thing or two about the sport and what works for you. The guy behind the counter has to know something about every product in the store and their possible uses. From gun safes, to trap guns, to EBR's.

I work in the automotive industry. I used to get upset because our distributors knew so little about our product. I finally realized that they are dealing with dozens, maybe hundreds of other products that their customer expects them to know a little about. I, on the other hand, need to know only one. The brand that we sell to them.

I'm not saying that I've never ran across the type of folks being described here. I'm just thinking maybe they're still learning something new every day too. I know I am.

entropy
November 22, 2005, 09:46 AM
Hopefully someone that smart would be long gone from minnimum wage.


I am a gunsmith and work nights at Wal-Mart. I do so so my sons don't go to day care. The guys at the gun counter come down to the shop to ask me questions. The Managers at Wal-Mart ask me about firearms transfer laws.

It's a matter of priorities for me; not sending my sons to day care is worth passing up some better-paying gun-related jobs. (There is a well-known "specialty shop" :evil: near here that I'd love to work for; but I can't even consider it for about five years... :( )

As for "know nothings and know-it-alls: I've seen them on both sides of the counter.:scrutiny:

XLMiguel
November 22, 2005, 10:32 AM
One of the areas I usta consult in is CRM (customer relationship management). One of the key tenets is that God gave you two ears, but only one mouth, because it is twice as important to listen than to speak, particularly in any service capacity (works for customers, too). It's based on teh notion that you don't learn much when your mouth is running, like what the customer wants (or what the salesperson knows -).

Gremlin Bros.- No offense, but your post was painful to read, let alone respond to. Please take the time capitalize and punctuate. Those who might care to read your posts will appreciate it and you will get much better response from those who do.

Edited to add: as long as I'm being the grammar nazi, one does not "Darwinize" someone else. One can oly Datwinate (or Darwinize) oneself, it's self-selecting thing, taking oneself out of the genepool through your own stupidity (aka "natural selection").

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