The future of C&R


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Malice
November 21, 2005, 05:22 PM
I have a question for some of you long-time C&R collectors. It seems like in the last 15 years, huge ammounts of great old surplus guns have been un-storaged and shipped over here for our enjoyment, especialy from eastern Europe. Mausers, Mosins, SKS, K31, Enfields, some handguns, etc.

At first these guns are cheap, then start to get gobbled up, increase in price, and then there are few to none at all being imported because theyr all gone.

My question is, by the time I am old enough to get my C&R (2 years), will there be anything left to buy up for $70-$150?

I guess another question is, are there any other guns to import? I mean new models. Is there some other country that used mosins or mausers or what have you that have not yet surplused them?

It looks like the golden age of milsurps might have been before my time :(

Please tell me I am wrong :)

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Cosmoline
November 21, 2005, 05:30 PM
There were something like 30 million Mosin-Nagants made and at least that many Mausers. It's true that the breakup of the eastern block released a lot of previously rare rifles, but given the numbers involved I don't see the supply of most of them drying up anytime soon. I've said before there are certain C&R rifles that are likely to dry up, including Finnish Mosins, but there will always be cheap beaters around.

50caliber123
November 21, 2005, 05:32 PM
I know Dunham's near me has been getting in Yugo M59/66 rifles, which were just awarded their c&r status. Too many evil features, it an sks with a 22mm grenade launcher/flash suppressor, folding bayonet, flip-up tritium night sights, no american-made parts. The next generation (if you can call it that) will have to be self-loading weapons, like the early FAL's or post WW2 designs or some of the specialized bolt-guns. Or, maybe you're right and it is the end of surplus rifles.

jsalcedo
November 21, 2005, 05:33 PM
Time passes and more things become 50 years old or older.

We may see some military semi autos come out of cosmoline, the russians are still emptying warehouses full of stuff captured during WWII and I'm sure they will keep finding crates of old rifles for some time to come.

I would think in the next 5 years or so there will be more military sidearms available.

Sadly there will be a point where surplus military guns will not be available with a C&R because of NFA rules and import restrictions.

The good news is you can still buy anything 50 years or older with your license even civilian models from anywhere in the country.

silverlance
November 21, 2005, 06:50 PM
dont' know what kind of sks you got, but mine doesn't have tritum night sights.. just crappy glow in the dark ones.

ArmedBear
November 21, 2005, 06:54 PM
The "golden age" of C&R's seems to come and go. Years ago, the golden age meant cheap M1's, M1 Carbines, 1903 and 03A3's, Trapdoor Springfields, 1917's, Krags... Guys were saying the same thing about the future then.

I'd get the C&R in 2 years, no matter what's out there at the time. Never know what might turn up.

TexasRifleman
November 21, 2005, 06:54 PM
Remember, every year another list of guns is added to the "50 year old" list.

How long before AR15's hit the 50 year old mark, among others?

I think you will have plenty of good stuff out there.....
Every year something else is 50 years old, remember that.

Kurush
November 21, 2005, 07:13 PM
dont' know what kind of sks you got, but mine doesn't have tritum night sights.. just crappy glow in the dark ones.They did make some 59/66s with tritium sights in the last few years of production, but most people have phosphor sights and think they're tritium. The real tritium ones have a cavity with a little (tritium containing) cylinder in it where the phosphor dot would be.

Carlos
November 21, 2005, 07:24 PM
I know Dunham's near me has been getting in Yugo M59/66 rifles, which were just awarded their c&r status.

Who? The gun or Dunham's.

I bought my first M59/66 over 3.5 years ago.

Yes, and some of them had Tritium sights. Mine wore out.

I, too, am hoping for something new. In the meantime, I still haven't purchased a CZ52 or mauser. I'll probably buy a couple 98s.

It's worth it for $30 for three years. I'm hoping some more Makarovs get uncovered and imported.

jefnvk
November 21, 2005, 07:25 PM
dont' know what kind of sks you got, but mine doesn't have tritum night sights..

They were made with both, and the phosphrous ones do suck.

Drysdale
November 21, 2005, 07:32 PM
They were made with both, and the phosphrous ones do suck.

Night sights? Your SKS has night sights? Lucky #^&%#&!!! :cuss:

Cacique500
November 21, 2005, 07:36 PM
I highly recommend the C&R - definitely get one when you can. You'll get nice discounts from many of the big suppliers (Midway, Brownells, Graf's, etc) and you'll most likely pay for your C&R with your first purchase. I've saved hundreds in the past few years.

It looks like the golden age of milsurps might have been before my time
I know what you mean...my problem is I become interested in a particular type of firearm after it's been on the market awhile (like when no more are coming in and prices are going up). Did this with both Sistema's and M39's...but can't stop buying them anyway :D Take my word for it, in two or three years I'll be griping about all the K-31's I should've bought when they were $89!

ACORN
November 21, 2005, 07:40 PM
The problem with the Tritium sights is that the half life is I think 11 years. So if I'm correct 11 years after they were produced the sight are half as bright. 11 years later how bright are they? My first Yugo had Tritium sights but if I had to rely on defending my life shooting at night with them, I'd have been one dead Yugoslavian. They glowed but were not very bright.

Exposure
November 21, 2005, 08:34 PM
Here is what they look like. There is a single corresponding vial on the front flip up post just oriented vertically.

http://i22.photobucket.com/albums/b301/paulj1973/SKSnightsights.jpg


I have 3 Yugos and this is the only one with the Tritium sights. And as a
Acorn already stated, they kind of suck.

This rifle was made in 1973, I guess Tritium only glows for so long and 32 years later it is pretty dim. While they do still glow and are easily visible at night they are really no better than the phosphorous ones on my other two rifles. Maybe in 1973 they were like big neon signs but now they are just dim specks. Still cool though! :)

MatthewVanitas
November 21, 2005, 08:54 PM
You hear those cool stories about mountains of crates of unusued 1911s with Cyrillic stamps sent to aid the Soviets, about all those Winchester 1895s in 7.62x54R sent to the White Army, all that jazz.

They say Russians never throw anything away...

What I don't get: Argentina has a peso crisis, and all of a sudden it's $90 Argie Mausers and $225 Sistema Colts for everyone, yet Russia goes through... well, everything Russia's gone through over 15 years, and nothing for us. Is Russia holding out for a real economic disaster, or what are they waiting for?

Farnham
November 21, 2005, 08:59 PM
What I don't get: Argentina has a peso crisis, and all of a sudden it's $90 Argie Mausers and $225 Sistema Colts for everyone

Where, oh where oh where, are you finding $225 Sistemas? Mine cost upwards of $400!

Cacique500
November 21, 2005, 09:08 PM
Where, oh where oh where, are you finding $225 Sistemas? Mine cost upwards of $400

+1...and more! It's amazing what you'll pay for that 'last' rollmark you don't have :o :D

MatthewVanitas
November 21, 2005, 09:45 PM
Where, oh where oh where, are you finding $225 Sistemas? Mine cost upwards of $400

Mine was $275 back in 2002. The Argentine Peso Crisis was 1997-1999, so I came in a couple years late and still got a good price.

Now, if the Argentines want to have another peso crisis, that's fine by me. I could use a couple more Sistemas, and a Deep South vacation on $20/day full of steak and tango would be fine by me too. But not likely.

jsalcedo
November 22, 2005, 03:02 AM
My sistema was $300 in 2000

I wish I had bought more.

aaronrkelly
November 22, 2005, 03:15 AM
How long before AR15's hit the 50 year old mark, among others?



AR15 was accepted by the military in 1959 so technically its 50 years old in a couple years but I dont think your going to see them on your C&R list anytime soon......

jsalcedo
November 22, 2005, 06:50 AM
How long before AR15's hit the 50 year old mark, among others?

In most cases Its not the age of the weapons system it is the serial number
of the particular weapon.

For example: If there was a Winchester rifle with serial number 12345 made
50 years ago you it is a C&R if serial # 12346 of the exact gun was made the next year it is not.

The ATF says anything 50 or older but you have to be careful, they also have long lists of guns and the eligible serial number blocks.

mrmeval
December 11, 2005, 09:53 AM
They came with either tritium or the glow in the dark ones. The tritium would probably be dead in them or nearly so.

dont' know what kind of sks you got, but mine doesn't have tritum night sights.. just crappy glow in the dark ones.

Kharn
December 11, 2005, 10:18 AM
The only problem is that most modern military weapons are machine guns, so both the '68 MG import ban and the '86 ban would have to be repealed before we could bring them in. :banghead:

Kharn

EOD Guy
December 11, 2005, 10:53 AM
In most cases Its not the age of the weapons system it is the serial number
of the particular weapon.

For example: If there was a Winchester rifle with serial number 12345 made
50 years ago you it is a C&R if serial # 12346 of the exact gun was made the next year it is not.

The ATF says anything 50 or older but you have to be careful, they also have long lists of guns and the eligible serial number blocks.

The lists with serial number blocks are for firearms that were less than 50 years old when they were listed. BATF adds firearms to the list periodically but seldom, if ever, removes the older firearms. That's why you see so many firearms on the list that are over 50 years old.

armoredman
December 11, 2005, 10:57 AM
Would like to see the SVT40 imported en mass as C&R.

VirgilCaine
December 11, 2005, 11:08 AM
The only problem is that most modern military weapons are machine guns, so both the '68 MG import ban and the '86 ban would have to be repealed before we could bring them in. :banghead:

Kharn

What about that Enfield sniper variant that was retired in--the 70's? That would be eligible, wouldn't it?

BTW--were there ever really cheap Enfields?

Reddog1
December 11, 2005, 02:18 PM
:confused: Seems to me that the way things are going in the world of
C&R today, milsurp ammo is drying up way before the milsurp arms are.
Take the 7.62x39 Yugo for exsample. Hard to fine today, and prices keep going up.
have a good safe day and keep an eye on the powers, things are going
downhill fast, IMHO.

Jim

DMK
December 11, 2005, 02:46 PM
Even if the C&R inventory of the wholesalers dries up, there will always be the secondary market. Buying from wholesalers is only half of the experience of collecting and not even the best part.

I've purchased, sold and traded a lot of guns with other C&R holders. The nice thing about dealing directly with collectors is you have a much better idea of what you are getting and often the cosmo is already cleaned off. You may have to pay current market value, but sometimes a guy who payed $90 for a rifle currently worth $200 may cut a break for a real collector if he knows the rifle will be appreciated for what it is. This is especially true if you are willing to trade with something he really wants.

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