We must boycott paypal!


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SnakeEater
November 22, 2005, 01:13 AM
I realize this statement is nothing new and it's often overlooked by fools like myself. I didn't head the warnings that others have been giving. I've continued to use paypal to sell "firearm related" stuff and I never had a problem, until now. I sold a Sig P229 to a guy who wanted to use paypal. After recieving the payment I tried to transfer funds to my bank account and that's when things went downhill. I recieved an email from paypal tonight stating that my account has been "limited" and my funds transfer cancelled. Turns out they hold all funds for 180 days for accounts that are limited, and if you are limited because of firearms, there is no appeal.

After some heated discussion with paypal management over the phone, they still refused to give me access to that money. I did manage to convince them to refund the money to the buyer. I don't know the status of his account but I'm fearful that he's "limited" as well. Anyway, just a warning to those knuckleheads who are like me. Don't use paypal. When asked for clarification about their policy the manager said "basically anything firearm related will get you shut down if we catch it. Our investigators even look at internet forums and follow-up on deals the find there.

BEWARE!

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solareclipse
November 22, 2005, 01:19 AM
jsut put goods - other and who is to know otherwise?

yes i am sure everybody just puts kimber 45 acp serial#### in the subject line and describes it in detail in the info box.. :rolleyes:

they cannot know unless someone tells them. period.

Kurt_M
November 22, 2005, 01:19 AM
:barf: :banghead: I had heard about this policy before, but thanks for bringing it up again. What a bunch of bigoted loons.

deanf
November 22, 2005, 01:21 AM
How did they find out?

SnakeEater
November 22, 2005, 01:24 AM
How did they find out?

Well, the buyer entered for item description "Sig P229" and put for the address "FFL address...etc.":banghead: I'm sure this is what got us. I myself always used good ole "goods/other".

Kurt_M
November 22, 2005, 01:44 AM
Update: I just closed my account since I haven't used it for a while and have now decided that it's worth waiting a few days to just send a check. Besides the fees have gotten out of control. Here's what I left in the comments section:

I'm cancelling this account because of your outrageous and narrow-minded policy against firearm-related purchases. You have no right to dictate what legal products I may and may not buy with my own money. Feel free to continue with this malicious policy, but you will do so without my support and without my money.

I suggest those of you with Paypal accounts cancel your accounts with a similar message. Maybe a couple hundred closed accounts for the same reason will make at least make them notice.

grimjaw
November 22, 2005, 01:47 AM
I won't use them simply because I think the service is too expensive. I didn't need another reason, but this one is enough.

jmm

Double Naught Spy
November 22, 2005, 02:05 AM
I've continued to use paypal to sell "firearm related" stuff and I never had a problem, until now. I sold a Sig P229 to a guy who wanted to use paypal. After recieving the payment I tried to transfer funds to my bank account and that's when things went downhill. I recieved an email from paypal tonight stating that my account has been "limited" and my funds transfer cancelled. Turns out they hold all funds for 180 days for accounts that are limited, and if you are limited because of firearms, there is no appeal.

After some heated discussion with paypal management over the phone, they still refused to give me access to that money. I did manage to convince them to refund the money to the buyer. I don't know the status of his account but I'm fearful that he's "limited" as well. Anyway, just a warning to those knuckleheads who are like me. Don't use paypal. When asked for clarification about their policy the manager said "basically anything firearm related will get you shut down if we catch it. Our investigators even look at internet forums and follow-up on deals the find there.

BEWARE!

Okay, so first you violated Paypal's policy and used your Paypal account in the sale of a firearm.

From Paypal FIREARMS
You may not use PayPal in the purchase or sale of any firearm. This includes all rifles, shotguns, and handguns, whether for use in sporting, as collectibles, or curio and relic (C&R) firearms, and regardless of their present working order.

Because you sold a firearm, the limited access to your account. Something tells me you did not convince Paypal to refund the money to the buyer as it is their policy to do so if they find you violated their rules. So they don't let the money go to you, but do return it.

From Paypal
If your Account Access is Limited. If the dispute covers only a specific transaction, we will only limit access to funds related to that particular transaction. If your account access has been limited, you will be notified by e-mail and requested to provide information relevant to your account. PayPal will investigate the matter promptly. If the investigation is in your favor, we will restore access to your account. If the investigation is not in your favor, PayPal may return funds to the sender and restore access to the remainder of your account, continue to limit your account access for up to 180 days as is necessary to protect PayPal against the risk of reversals, or may close your account by giving you notice and mailing a check for any funds in your account (minus funds that are in dispute) to the address that you have provided. If you are later determined to be entitled to the funds in dispute, PayPal will make an additional payment of those funds to you. Any of the following events may lead to your account being limited:

So what do you expect when you break the rules? Granted, their policies suck, but you agreed to them and then violated them.

Arch
November 22, 2005, 02:16 AM
I didn't know about their firearms policy.

I'm with you on boycotting them based on that! I wouldn't bother trying to hide my transactions under "other", the principal annoys me enough not to use them....unless there is some reason why they do this.

But if not, I'm in.

SnakeEater
November 22, 2005, 03:00 AM
Because you sold a firearm, the limited access to your account. Something tells me you did not convince Paypal to refund the money to the buyer as it is their policy to do so if they find you violated their rules. So they don't let the money go to you, but do return it.

Well, you are simply wrong. They had every intention of freezing my account for 180 days. I had to convince a supervisor that since I haven't shipped the goods purchased they should refund the money. What exactly makes you so intuitive that you can call me a liar? My call for a boycott comes from the fact that although yes, I did indeed violate their asinine policy, many gunowners use paypal for things that a normal person would not consider policy breakers. I wish to inform everyone that your account can and will be frozen if they know you are using it for anything related to firearms, that is exactly what they told me.

TarpleyG
November 22, 2005, 08:41 AM
I really have never understood their policy on this sort of stuff. Granted, they are in ************ and they are entitled to run their business as they please but IMO, they offer no different service than a credit card company and you don't see Mastecard and Visa telling what you can and cannot buy. I hope they go belly up myself along with parent eBay.

With all that said, if you choose to use PayPal, just don't put anything in the description. Works for me.

Greg

Henry Bowman
November 22, 2005, 09:08 AM
Granted, they are in ************ and they are entitled to run their business as they pleaseSo if they chose to deny service to blacks, jews, homosexuals, blind people, and illegal aliens, that would be OK too. The ACLU wouldn't gripe or sue about "equal access to credit and banking services." Riiiiight. :rolleyes:

Arch
November 22, 2005, 09:12 AM
Nicely put.

Standing Wolf
November 22, 2005, 04:22 PM
I don't ever do business with anti-Second Amendment bigots.

Declaration Day
November 22, 2005, 04:34 PM
I was not aware of Paypal's firearm policy. Thank you for telling us, Snake. I will cancel my account, and send them a nice email.

petrel800
November 22, 2005, 04:52 PM
I hate to say it, but PayPal is a privately owned company and they HAVE THE RIGHT . . . nevermind.

Colt
November 22, 2005, 05:00 PM
Does anyone know if they have a similar, explicit policy on drugs, legal or otherwise?

I only ask because I'm sure the reasoning they employ to justify their PC firearms policy is that the illegal sale of firearms is sometimes a federal offense. By the same token, however, they shouldn't be permitting the sale of drugs, whether OTC or prescription, for the same reasons. Sale of some types of drugs across state lines is also a federal offense.

Along the same lines, do they have policies on tobacco?

f4t9r
November 22, 2005, 05:25 PM
The fees are out of controll and they can do what they want because people still use them everyday
Until enough people make a stand its not going to change

CentralTexas
November 22, 2005, 05:31 PM
I feel PayPal/Ebay (same Company) has the right to not allow firearms merchandise to be sold etc for whatever reason, anti-2A or being based in **********.
That said, if the real reason they avoid it is trying not to run afoul of Kali law etc., why do they allow adult material and services, sex toys, drug paraphanelia etc to be sold around the US and in Kali when it is also illegal in some areas?
Just so you know if you don't EBAY is one of the largest suppliers of porn in the US. Go to Ebay--> everything else--> mature audiences and order your self the newest "Barely Legal" DVD or just do a search for a Hookah Pipe for your college dorm room.
Disclaimer- I have no problem with adults doing drugs or porn, my point is if they are truly doing this from a business angle why not prohibit these items as well as they could be shipped to a "wrong" area or paid for with PayPal...
CT

jeanfor
November 22, 2005, 05:57 PM
But there is nothing illegal in buying a gun from State A and paying a FFL ....

CentralTexas
November 22, 2005, 06:01 PM
more about buying things like 30 round mags which are banned in Kali and using a Kali based company to do so and heaven fobid it get's shipped there.
www.craiglist.com also prohibits weapons posts and they are Kali based. But from what i hear Craig is your stereotypical anti 2A type...
CT

Rezin
November 22, 2005, 06:05 PM
Interesting. I have a PayPal account for my biz, and I use my PayPal debit card at the range all the time. I wonder if the debit card is any different........

Creeping Incrementalism
December 4, 2005, 02:54 PM
more about buying things like 30 round mags which are banned in Kali and using a Kali based company to do so and heaven fobid it get's shipped there.
www.craiglist.com also prohibits weapons posts and they are Kali based. But from what i hear Craig is your stereotypical anti 2A type...
CT

Dude.... there is an S between the "g" and the "l".

You gave a link to a porn site.

eastwood44mag
December 4, 2005, 02:57 PM
StormPay is firearms friendly. Problem is their cut is 6.8%, IIRC.

I never had PayPal problems. Course, all I ever bought were gardening supplies.

jsalcedo
December 4, 2005, 02:58 PM
I use paypal for gun stuff and just don't put what its for.

I have no problem using anti-second amendment bigots to buy and sell gun related items.

It's about the only way to safely accept credit cards without having your own machine.

gudel
December 4, 2005, 03:16 PM
jsut put goods - other and who is to know otherwise?

yes i am sure everybody just puts kimber 45 acp serial#### in the subject line and describes it in detail in the info box.. :rolleyes:

they cannot know unless someone tells them. period.


yup, that's what I do too, some people are just too stupid.
Simply put other goods and it's a done deal. and NO, I will not boycott paypal. I need it for my sale.

4v50 Gary
December 4, 2005, 03:19 PM
I'm happy to say that I've deleted my PayPal account and have always refused to give them access to my bank account. Along with EBay, they're anti-gun so :cuss: them. I'll send a check or bank draft first.:p

Tomcat1066
December 4, 2005, 03:25 PM
I feel PayPal/Ebay (same Company) has the right to not allow firearms merchandise to be sold etc for whatever reason, anti-2A or being based in **********.
That said, if the real reason they avoid it is trying not to run afoul of Kali law etc., why do they allow adult material and services, sex toys, drug paraphanelia etc to be sold around the US and in Kali when it is also illegal in some areas?
Just so you know if you don't EBAY is one of the largest suppliers of porn in the US. Go to Ebay--> everything else--> mature audiences and order your self the newest "Barely Legal" DVD or just do a search for a Hookah Pipe for your college dorm room.
Disclaimer- I have no problem with adults doing drugs or porn, my point is if they are truly doing this from a business angle why not prohibit these items as well as they could be shipped to a "wrong" area or paid for with PayPal...
CT

I can't speak for Ebay, but I know that PayPal will do the same thing if you use it for various adult services. I had who had an "adult phone services" company and had her paypal account locked out for using it for her business.

Tom

jsalcedo
December 4, 2005, 03:34 PM
Along with EBay, they're anti-gun so them. I'll send a check or bank draft first.

Over 75,000 items on Ebay related to hunting, shooting and guns


Apparel (7948)
Books, Videos (2095)
Decoys (2437)
Game Calls (2416)
Gun Safety, Storage (1241)
Gun Parts (8614)
Gun Accessories (9977)
Hunting Accessories (6409)
Hunting Trips, Leases (250)
Knives (7589)
Reloading Equipment (5103)
Scopes, Optics, Lasers (7523)
Skeet, Trap Shooting (213)
Taxidermy, Mounts, Antlers (3822)
Vintage (5343)
Other Items (4096)

Onslaught
December 4, 2005, 03:36 PM
What some fail to realize is that NOT being "pro-gun" does NOT automatically make one "anti-gun".

If a company (PayPal, Ebay, K Mart for example) decides "In this sue-crazy society, the civil liability is far too great a risk for us as a company to be a potential point of contact for the next Columbine" and disassociates themselves with firearms related products, it's their RIGHT to do so, and more importantly, they are NOT HURTING US by doing so.

In this situation, the only thing they REALLY did wrong was EVER allow firearms related items to begin with, and then decided to discontinue doing so. Otherwise, we could all scream "Let's ALL boycotg Winn Dixie Supermarket because they don't sell shotguns and 9mm ammo at the makeup counter!"

This response is over the top and unwarranted.

On the other hand...

If a company (Levi Strauss for example) actively donate funds, time, resources, etc. or take an actual ANTI-GUN stance, not just neutral or "not us" stance, then I think a boycott is warranted and I support it 100%. Just such a list is compiled and maintained by the NRA: http://www.nraila.org/Issues/FactSheets/Read.aspx?ID=15

Of course again, this IS a free country, and if you STILL choose to call for a boycott of EVERY SINGLE company that does not CATER to your firearms owning needs, then by all means, it is your right to do so.

I choose my battles a little more carefully than that.

FPrice
December 4, 2005, 03:38 PM
I am curious about one thing. From this and other posts it seems that if Paypal cancels your account, it freezes the account and denies you access to your money? Now, I am not a lawyer but it seems to me that freezing your funds and holding them may not be the most legal of actions. I am trying to think if any other company does this, and if they did, would not there be an outcry against that company?

You can cancel my account for violating your policy and that is your right, but if you deny me access to my property (i.e., my money, which could be earning me interest someplace else) then this might be a violation of some sort of law. Depending upon the amount of money it might be worth a visit to an attorney.

afasano
December 4, 2005, 03:51 PM
I realize this statement is nothing new and it's often overlooked by fools like myself. I didn't head the warnings that others have been giving. I've continued to use paypal to sell "firearm related" stuff and I never had a problem, until now. I sold a Sig P229 to a guy who wanted to use paypal. After recieving the payment I tried to transfer funds to my bank account and that's when things went downhill. I recieved an email from paypal tonight stating that my account has been "limited" and my funds transfer cancelled. Turns out they hold all funds for 180 days for accounts that are limited, and if you are limited because of firearms, there is no appeal.

After some heated discussion with paypal management over the phone, they still refused to give me access to that money. I did manage to convince them to refund the money to the buyer. I don't know the status of his account but I'm fearful that he's "limited" as well. Anyway, just a warning to those knuckleheads who are like me. Don't use paypal. When asked for clarification about their policy the manager said "basically anything firearm related will get you shut down if we catch it. Our investigators even look at internet forums and follow-up on deals the find there.

BEWARE!

Ask them why the paypal logo is next to gun stuff on ebay, Tell them that you will call the AG or who ever it takes and shut them down. :fire:

Dan0076
December 4, 2005, 03:55 PM
I closed my account a few months ago and the reason I listed was because of thier anti-gun polices.

Creeping Incrementalism
December 4, 2005, 04:00 PM
What some fail to realize is that NOT being "pro-gun" does NOT automatically make one "anti-gun".

If a company (PayPal, Ebay, K Mart for example) decides "In this sue-crazy society, the civil liability is far too great a risk for us as a company to be a potential point of contact for the next Columbine" and disassociates themselves with firearms related products, it's their RIGHT to do so, and more importantly, they are NOT HURTING US by doing so.
http://www.nraila.org/Issues/FactSheets/Read.aspx?ID=15

I choose my battles a little more carefully than that.

Paypal is not a store, it just facilitates the transaction. Has Visa been sued for crimes committed with merchandise it facilitated payment for? Has the Federal Reserve been sued for merchandise paid for with cash?

I don't see any other conclusion to teach than that PayPal is ultimately owned by anti-RKBA people. I personally wouldn't cancel my account if I used PayPal a lot and couldn't find an alternative that was just as good, since it is easy to get around their rules, but since I don't, I will cancel my account.

jsalcedo
December 4, 2005, 04:01 PM
Ebay has 75,000 gun related items.

So they stopped allowing guns to avoid lawsuits.

Now they don't KNOWINGLY allow guns through paypal.

Sounds like a CYA.

I'm not a big fan of pay pal. They tried to screw me out of $460 of electronic
virtual property when the buyer backed out. Luckily I was able to grab my cash and run before they blocked my account.

I am now banned from paypal but my wife isn't :)

poppy
December 4, 2005, 05:30 PM
Interesting thread. I have used Ebay and PayPal to make gun related purchases. One way I have used to narrow a search is to click on "militaria" so they obviously welcome gun related merchandise. One perplexing thing is that they seem to allow sales of hi cap magazines but the seller is forced to say that it holds 10 rounds. Ebay is a little like Microsoft, they are the biggest and we find ourselves using them. Most posters making disparging remarks about Ebay are using Microsoft to make them. I don't think Bill Gates is very gun friendly, but I could be wrong. poppy

NineseveN
December 4, 2005, 06:12 PM
Dude.... there is an S between the "g" and the "l".

You gave a link to a porn site.

Now that's one hell of a blunder!

GRB
December 4, 2005, 09:15 PM
This whole thread amazes me because it is, in my opinion, ludicrous from the first post. For instance:

Does it strike anyone else as rather strange that someone would agree to Paypal's terms of service, full well knowing PayPal does not allow gun sales (because this is plainly stated in their terms of service - and they always let you know when such is updated - and your continued use means you agree to abide by the new TOS); then that someone goes out and uses PayPal to finalize a firearm sale, then he would whine and moan about paypal freezing his account when he violated their TOS and he got caught. Now that same person gets rather indignant about PayPals terms of service, specifically that they do not allow their service to be used for firearms sales. That same person is so indignant as to tell off a PayPal employee, then cancel his account in a huff and, he suggests, at least by implication, other people should do so. How should I say this to keep it on the High Road - hmm it is tough, I guess I'll just have to say it in English: that sounds kind of bizarre.

PayPal has the right to run their service as they see fit within the law. If they don't want you to use their service to buy or sell guns (make payments or accept payments for guns) and if you were so gosh darned against such a policy, why did you use Paypal in the first place. You have the right not to elect to use paypal. You decided instead to use it anyhow even though they did not allow gun payments. Of course you have the right to take a tizzy fit over it all, even though you should have been fully aware of their policy before you used their service - that is the bizarre part of it though - that you would get so angry and you were the one who broke the rules to which you had already agreed:banghead: . You brought this problem onto yourself - now you want everyone to empathize with you and rally against Paypal - very self serving, isn't it? It would have saved you a lot of trouble, and served you better, had you just had the forethought to use a method for payment that would not have resulted in you violating the TOS and also in your account being frozen. The United States Postal Service sells this wonderful monetary instrument known as a postal money order. What better way to accept or make payment for a gun than something with the word postal in it.

Best regards,
Glenn B

SnakeEater
December 5, 2005, 08:43 AM
Gee Glen, I have to respond. The gist of my gripe is that they can freeze the money, money that is not theirs. Don't lecture me on money orders, I'm well aware of the safest ways to buy/sell guns. The buyer in this instance asked if I would accept paypal and a faxed ffl in order to expedite the transfer. I assumed he'd know better than to put "Sig P229" in the item description, I was wrong. The have every right to shut me down but freezing money that belongs to other people does not sit well with me. Being that this is a firearm related site, and many people here use paypal for firearms related transactions, I felt it would be appropriate to warn them about the consequences.

You want bizarre? I find it bizarre that you state I was so idignant that I "told off a paypal employee" then canceled my account in a "huff". Where exactly did I say that I told anybody off or that I canceled my account? I argued, much like attorneys do in court, that they were wrong to hold those funds, not once did I tell anybody off. They canceled my account, not me.

So is it a bad thing to warn fellow gunowners about the dangers of using paypal for firearms related transactions? No. Did I advocate that paypal users who use the service for non-firearms related transactions beware? No.

If I had posted this at modelcarcollectors.com then your post would make sense. My guess is that nearly everyone, with the exception of you, on this board who uses paypal probably regularly violate the TOS. I merely try to warn them.

denfoote
December 5, 2005, 09:21 AM
I've NEVER used Pay-Pal and NEVER will!!!

GRB
December 5, 2005, 09:38 AM
SnakeEater,
You Ask For It You Get It, or What goes Around Comes Around:

First of all I apologize if I wrongly said you dropped your account, I must have been confused with someone else. Now that that is out of the way I will address that which does not confuse me. I am not confused about my opinion of your business character.

The gist of the mater is that you seemingly were dishonest by agreeing to Paypalís terms and then being very agreeable to violate those terms. All you had to do to avoid this was to tell the seller he and you could not use Paypal for a firearms deal without violating their terms of service and that; you were unwilling to violate the terms of service to which you already had agreed. Then all you had to do was tell him you would accept another form of payment. Instead you took what was probably the convenient way to do the deal which apparently was to violate the TOS. You also just in essence wrote that you had expected someone else, the buyer to be dishonest; this by your expectation that he would not write down that the transaction was for a gun. Then Paypal held your money and my bet would be they state within their terms of service that such is one of their options for dealing with people who violate their TOS. Now you are pissed off and to defend your actions you say: My guess is that nearly everyone, with the exception of you, on this board who uses Paypal probably regularly violate the TOS. So, if I read you correctly you are implying that everyone, except me, on these forums is probably dishonest in their business dealings! Is that correct? Would the fact thast others are dishonest make being dishonest any better? Come now, even if your statement was correct, that is a weak argument in favor of doing something wrong. Sounds very immature to me sort of like the hospitalized kid saying: 'Well mom and dad everyone else was doing it so I jumped off the bridge too, how was I supposed to know it was a bad thing?' No I don't think I would necessarily follow others off a a bridge in that manner without making pretty darned sure it was the right thing to do. So, before I forget, let me say thanks, I am flattered that you think I would not violate the PayPal TOS (I certainly would not knowingly do so) but; there are probably quite a few people, the majority, on these boards who, once they have agreed to a TOS, try to stick with it. My guess is that if the honest ones did not like Paypal's policy enough concerning no firearms tranactions, then they would simply either not sign up for Paypal or would simply not use it to buy or sell guns. You apparently screwed up and now you want sympathy and you want to look like the guy helping everyone out with a warning. People who deal honestly in their business transactions donít need the warning in the first place because they would not do what you did in the first place. That is the gist of the matter. Get over it. How is that for a lecture.:)

Have a nice day,
Glenn B

rick_reno
December 5, 2005, 09:47 AM
What is needed is a payment method for people involved in lawful commerce that doesn't involve political correctness. Regarding Paypal - that policy came down from their parent company, EBay. It's good to stay away from both of them but seriously - our absence won't make any meaningful difference to their bottom line.

GRB
December 5, 2005, 10:07 AM
No. Did I advocate that paypal users who use the service for non-firearms related transactions beware? No. As far as I can see, you advocated that the users of this website, this forum, not only be aware of Paypals rules but, that we stop using Paypal because of those rules. You called for a boycott of Paypal. You did not specify that only those who use paypal for gun transactions should boycott Paypal, so in essence you did not say only those who are dishonest in their business dealings by violating a contract should boycott Paypal. No, you made a more general statement. You wrote that: We must boycott Paypal! How convenient for you to have seemingly forgotten the idea with which you started your own thread.

regards,
GB

Omni04
December 5, 2005, 10:14 AM
Wow, you mean i can't even buy a holster or anything? I am also in the ranks of scrolling through 3 miles of SLAs and clicking accept. Thank you edit- "Find on Page"! i too wasn't even aware they had this rule. Thanks for letting us know,

poppy
December 5, 2005, 11:15 AM
Hey Omni, I just went to Ebay and typed in "holster" and then refined the search with "militaria" and got 584 hits. Sooooo, I guess you can buy a holster. Again, as I stated on a previous post, Ebay seems to encourage gun-related merchandise, just not guns themselves. poppy

NineseveN
December 5, 2005, 12:30 PM
Paypal shut me down for buying, of all things, a Rifle Sling. No kidding. This was not covered by any rule, regulation, term of service or law. A lot of folks think buying magazines and slings and such is okay, I guess it depends on what kind of a mood the auditor is in that day.

FPrice
December 5, 2005, 01:15 PM
Gee Glen, I have to respond.

FWIW I agree with your position SnakeEater. While Paypal certainly has the right to set TOS, what they have set in this case makes no moral or legal sense. It appears to be an arbitrary and capricious decision and a violation does not in my opinion constitute an illegal act.

In my opinion Paypal has possibly performed an illegal act in freezing any monetary assets without due cause. This may or may not be in their TOS but I doubt that would stand up in a court of law. Certainly they can cancel your account, but what gives them the legal right to withhold your money?

I wish someone would follow up with a lawyer to challenge this practise.

afasano
December 5, 2005, 04:43 PM
Hey Omni, I just went to Ebay and typed in "holster" and then refined the search with "militaria" and got 584 hits. Sooooo, I guess you can buy a holster. Again, as I stated on a previous post, Ebay seems to encourage gun-related merchandise, just not guns themselves. poppy

It seems like ebay and paypal have gotten together and invented bait, buy, then freeze your account. That sounds as crooked as bait and switch.

SnakeEater
December 5, 2005, 05:13 PM
Glenn obviously works for paypal. Either that or nevermind..

hammer4nc
December 5, 2005, 06:32 PM
This stuff seems to arise from paypals "acceptable use policy", described thusly on paypals website:

...Thus, PayPal has developed an Acceptable Use Policy (ďAUPĒ), as part of the User Agreement to which each customer agrees at the time of initiation of service. This policy help customers identify activities that are illegal or may be illegal under certain circumstances, and to identify certain types of activities for which PayPal has decided not to process payments, even if the activities may be legal.(emphasis added)
...
Violations of the Acceptable Use Policy.
Violating PayPalís Acceptable Use Policy may result in temporary or permanent limitation of a customerís account. This includes the inability to send and/or receive payments, to remove financial information from an account, and for users to close their accounts as a way of evading the policy. Additionally, users whose accounts are permanently limited for violating the Acceptable Use Policy are barred from future use of PayPal and its services, and such users are not permitted to open new or additional PayPal accounts.

I would expect if paypal intended to impound people's money (not just cancel their account), this would be explicitly spelled out here. I don't see it. Could the term "permanent limitation" then be defined as impounding a person's money (aka stealing) without ever having to pay it back? Bet some lawyers would so argue.

Some would, and have, argued "their game, their rules". It seems in any discussion of laws, rules etc., a certain segment (usually law-and-order types) will quote chapter and verse, without any consideration of the moral ramifications. Think hard and answer this:

Paypal boasts about 86,6 million accounts. What do you figure the balance of the impounded funds averages? What yield when invested? To me this qualifies as a scam, corrupt practice, arbitrary and capricious, with vague notification to the public up front.

hammer4nc
December 5, 2005, 06:55 PM
Here's an interesting website: http://www.paypalsucks.com/SuePayPal-1.shtml

Excerpt:
A Federal Court had already found that their User Agreement was unconscionable under California law. Referring to the provisions of the User Agreement the court said ". . .these provisions made the User Agreement unconscionable, and appear to represent an attempt by PayPal to insulate itself contractually from any meaningful challenge to its alleged practices." The Small Claims court awarded me judgment in the amount of $150.00 plus costs.

But hey, their game, their rules, right?

Onslaught
December 7, 2005, 08:37 PM
Freezing funds is not cool, no matter what the item. I do not agree with that practice at all. It's true that PayPal doesn't have the greatest reputation. 60 minutes did an entire story on how many people hate their GUTS!

BUT, I'm aware of PayPal's rules, and I continue to use them.

In fact, I've used both PayPal AND Ebay several times this week already. Let's see here...

I bought my 3 year old daughter all the "Princess and the Pauper" Barbies, and Ebay didn't lock my account.

I bought my Mother a "Table Mate V" wheelchair model table, and PayPal didn't freeze any funds.

I bought some 30 round Eagle magazines for my Mini-14... But for that one, I used Visa because PAYPAL DOES NOT ALLOW FIREARMS RELATED TRANSACTIONS!

Your next thread should read

"Boycott Macy's! They won't sell pistol ammo, but they got all them people shooting perfume at you right in the store!"

Show me where PayPal donates to Handguncontrol.org, and THEN I'll cancel my account!

NineseveN
December 7, 2005, 08:46 PM
Freezing funds is not cool, no matter what the item. I do not agree with that practice at all. It's true that PayPal doesn't have the greatest reputation. 60 minutes did an entire story on how many people hate their GUTS!

BUT, I'm aware of PayPal's rules, and I continue to use them.

In fact, I've used both PayPal AND Ebay several times this week already. Let's see here...

I bought my 3 year old daughter all the "Princess and the Pauper" Barbies, and Ebay didn't lock my account.

I bought my Mother a "Table Mate V" wheelchair model table, and PayPal didn't freeze any funds.

I bought some 30 round Eagle magazines for my Mini-14... But for that one, I used Visa because PAYPAL DOES NOT ALLOW FIREARMS RELATED TRANSACTIONS!

Your next thread should read

"Boycott Macy's! They won't sell pistol ammo, but they got all them glass cases with perfume in 'em!"

Show me where PayPal donates to Handguncontrol.org, and THEN I'll cancel my account!

When firearms related items are the only legal item a company restricts (especially when they include things like pornography and sex toys as allowable items), it's hard not to see them as anti-gun, even if only by the exclusion.

Not that I'm against pr0n or anything. :D

EDIT: looks like they got that in there too now. when the banned my account, the porn policy was not in place. Well, I guess they're not anti-gun, they're anti-everything fun!

FPrice
December 20, 2005, 08:29 PM
I received a letter today from Paypal offering me a credit card.

I wonder what would happen if I got it and just used it to buy guns and miscellaneous firearms-related items?

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