Wet phone book test question...


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280PLUS
November 26, 2005, 01:40 PM
Should I pull the covers off so I have consistent layers of paper throughout? Or doesn't it matter?

:D

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Chipperman
November 26, 2005, 02:03 PM
I have heard of people doing it both ways. IMO, as long as you are consistent with your owns testing, it doesn't matter either way.

RyanM
November 26, 2005, 03:16 PM
The covers aren't thick or tough enough to make any difference, unless you get hardcover phone books where you live. It's much more important to make sure you soak the books for at least 24 hours, to make sure there are no dry spots, and soak them the same length of time for different tests.

280PLUS
November 26, 2005, 05:06 PM
Thank you!

;)

mrmeval
November 26, 2005, 05:52 PM
Because of random changes depending on ads they won't be consistant from test to test. The cover can block some hollow points. Get standard newspaper and fill a 13 gallon trash can with them. Lay it down and stack them in neatly after pulling the ads. Stand up and fill with water. You may have to add water but after time you'll be able to judge how full to fill it. It takes two stacks to stop rifle and some pistol rounds so you might need two trashcans or prepair two in advance. A soaked one can be stored in a 13 gal garbage bag.

Should I pull the covers off so I have consistent layers of paper throughout? Or doesn't it matter?

:D

280PLUS
November 26, 2005, 07:29 PM
Am I shooting downward into the upright can?

Husker1911
November 26, 2005, 07:55 PM
Put some clothing around your phone books! Make it realistic. I'm only being a little sarcastic. It makes no difference about the book covers.

280PLUS
November 26, 2005, 09:01 PM
Put some clothing around your phone books! Make it realistic.
Good suggestion, I hadn't thought of that.

armedandsafe
November 27, 2005, 12:17 AM
We used to take gallon milk jugs, stand a leg bone in one and fill it with Knox gelatine. Worked quite well for consistency, test to test.

Pops

Silent-Snail
November 27, 2005, 01:50 AM
What is the purpose of this test? How is it done? I've never heard of it.

280PLUS
November 27, 2005, 05:16 AM
Dammit - this thing lost my reply AGAIN! It asks me to log in after submitting and when I do my work has disappeared Grrrr:cuss: :fire:

Starting over :sigh:

What is the purpose of this test? How is it done? It is a cheapie non scientific way to test bullet expansion. Stack a bunch of wet phone books together and shoot them. Then take them apart and see what the rounds look like. I am planning to compare Georgia Arms 100 gr .32 H&R Mag against their new 85 gr of the same caliber. The suggestion of putting cloth over them is good because hollowpoints have been known to clog with clothing material and not expand.

I've often wondered about using knox. I though maybe a knox / mortar type slurry too. Mortar for a thickener. I looked into the real ballistic jelly a while back but it's pretty expensive and involved.

Double Naught Spy
November 27, 2005, 09:35 AM
It is a cheapie non scientific way to test bullet expansion. Stack a bunch of wet phone books together and shoot them. Then take them apart and see what the rounds look like. I am planning to compare Georgia Arms 100 gr .32 H&R Mag against their new 85 gr of the same caliber. The suggestion of putting cloth over them is good because hollowpoints have been known to clog with clothing material and not expand.

Are you certain of this? I believe you are very incorrect about such testing being non-scientific. The way I understand it, this was the ONLY scientific testing for determining round effectiveness against wet phone book monsters. For example, what if Big Foot was actually made out of wet phone books? What if your home is invaded by a team of wet phone book gang members?

Note that you can use modeling clay test ammo effectiveness of rounds against the likes of Pokey and Gumby. RCBS is reported to be an excellent performer against such claymation threats.

Dean C
November 27, 2005, 12:53 PM
Using a couple of well soaked "Seattle" phone books, my son and I wanted to capture a .40 in tact so we could re-load it in an empty shell as a rear view mirror toy. Well, we weren't very successul. Bullets deformed too much or found their way out of the trap. Well, being a bit fun lovin', I decided to see what my 45-70 Govt. with 300 gr would do. Wow, went right through and left chaff another 40 yards down range. Oddly enough, the chaff was actually dry. Gotta love that 45-70.
dean

280PLUS
November 27, 2005, 01:11 PM
The way I understand it, this was the ONLY scientific testing for determining round effectiveness against wet phone book monsters. Damn, caught me again...

:D

Ol` Joe
November 27, 2005, 01:27 PM
When tieing them before soaking leave them real loose. The books swell to 2/3 their normal size when they`ve soaked up all they can hold, 24 hrs of soaking if the pile is deep. They need to be consistant in their water content to give a good idea of the bullets performance.

There is another method. Take gallon jugs of water and line them up and shoot throught them. The results are very similar, matter of fact it`s been done and the results published for a awful lot of bullets and cartridges.........................this guy has too much spare time:scrutiny:

http://stevespages.com/page8f.htm

280PLUS
November 27, 2005, 02:07 PM
this guy has too much spare timeand lot's of plastic jugs! :eek:

I'd seen this site before and .32 H&R mag isn't covered. Oh well, more fun for me :D Now I'm wishing I had a chrono though...

mrmeval
November 27, 2005, 03:33 PM
You remove them prior to use.

Am I shooting downward into the upright can?

mrmeval
November 27, 2005, 03:42 PM
You can try using clothing but it's been done http://www.theboxotruth.com/docs/bot8.htm
Expansion was interfered with on all the rounds fired.

Put some clothing around your phone books! Make it realistic. I'm only being a little sarcastic. It makes no difference about the book covers.

280PLUS
November 27, 2005, 05:40 PM
You remove them prior to use. Oh... :o

I'll be trying it with and witout cloth for both rounds.

Harry Paget Flashman
November 27, 2005, 06:01 PM
After doing some Googling I found that for the best penetration or shock and awe results on phone books for any caliber, use the Pacific island of Tuvalu phone book(23 pages).

mrmeval
November 27, 2005, 11:37 PM
Then try it on two bundles with a 12ga shotgun slug and one of the solid copper slugs.

I just saw a brass, zinc allow bullet at Midway for .223 and really want to try it out. But I need to get in to handloading first.

Oh... :o

I'll be trying it with and witout cloth for both rounds.

Dave R
November 28, 2005, 10:18 AM
Here's how I prepare my phone books for shooting.

1. Stack them in a big rubbermaid tub. In the back yard (see 4) Vertically. Same way you'll shoot them.
2. Fill with water.
3. Once they've soaked up the water, open a book or two to make sure the interior is soaked. Re-fill the tub as needed.
4. Once everything is saturated, turn the tub over to drain, leaving it on top of the books to hold them together. Let them drain for a couple of hours.
5. Take off the tub, and they're still stacked together. Tie 'em up.
6. Use the tub to carry them to the car. Get help as needed.

ETA: 7. Post results on THR! You may learn some interesting things. For example, in my tests, I found that "wound channels" from a .380acp were about 75% the size of 9mm. Closer than I thought.

280PLUS
November 28, 2005, 12:22 PM
Well dogged if the wife don't have 6 gazzilion rubbermaid tubs hanging around!

(She is almost a litte TOO organized. Everything has a place and it darn well better be there.:eek: ) :p

Post results on THR! You may learn some interesting things Will do. My only regret is my flash card reader was broken recently so pix may take a little longer but there WILL be some.

Thanx to ALL so far for the excellent info!

:D

280PLUS
January 25, 2006, 12:59 PM
:)

http://www.thehighroad.org/showthread.php?t=178947

Nickotym
January 25, 2006, 01:12 PM
Actually if you search I don't think it is too hard to make ballistic gelatin.

280PLUS
January 25, 2006, 01:15 PM
Thanks, actually I have looked into it. I felt I could not replicate the formula correctly and it turned out to be fairly expensive so I opted for this. I may try it in the future.

280PLUS
January 25, 2006, 01:22 PM
:)

http://www.thehighroad.org/showthread.php?t=178947

:D

Nickotym
January 25, 2006, 01:44 PM
No problem, but here is a link for Ballistic gelatin using plain old Knox unflavored gelatin that sounds fairly cheap and not too much hassle:

http://www.customcartridge.com/pdfs/BallisticGel.pdf

280PLUS
January 25, 2006, 02:31 PM
Wow! Cool, I'd been wondering if this was possible...

I Imagine if I get flavored we can shoot it and then have a nice snack afterwards.

You've heard of "jello" shots but how about "shot" jello? :p

:D

RyanM
January 25, 2006, 04:06 PM
About $20 per block, which can be used for a maximum of 5 shots. That's not very cheap to me.

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