Why I carry a gun.


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Mr_Moore
November 27, 2005, 09:46 PM
Man's neck slashed after refusing a demand for money.

http://www.pittsburghlive.com/x/irwinbank/s_398393.html

A 20-year-old man was slashed with a knife Friday night in Oakland, police said. He was inside the Exxon gas station on McKee Place about 8:22 p.m. when a stranger asked him for money for cigarettes and he refused, according to a police report. The stranger cut the man's neck once with a knife.
Police did not identify the victim, who they said walked to Children's Hospital of Pittsburgh for treatment and was released Saturday. He gave no description of his attacker.

___________________________________
Oakland is a part of Pittsburgh.

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Standing Wolf
November 27, 2005, 11:06 PM
Some people just aren't very polite: that's all.

cz75bdneos22
November 27, 2005, 11:42 PM
mr. moore, don't make the assumption that carrying a gun will give you immunity from being a victim..:rolleyes:
my uncle thought the same until he met someone who also was carrying a gun..:what:
he ended up dead with 16 shots all over his body..:(
i think we've all thought at one time how we'll do this and that if the situation ever arises.., but from experience, uneventful things seldom go by the best laid plans..it kind of reminds me of the day back in high school when a fellow classmate got his butt whipped up and down the courtyard by another classmate. he was a jerk with a big ego..he felt that because he was in karate and had a year's worth of classes under his belt. he could kick anybody's behind.+:mad:
well, as it always is there is somewhere outhere that is stronger, smarter, quicker or braver than oneself..so you know the rest of the story..
to prepare for combat is noble, but fear not the weapon, but the man..i think some japanese dude said that..sorry if i can't recall now. in any case, that's my .02/100..YMMV.:p what do i know??

longtooth
November 27, 2005, 11:49 PM
Yes cz just because you carry does not mean you will be the winner. One thing I talk to folks about who want to get a permit & carry is to decide that you can use it. Then to know that if I do have it & use it I might loose this gunfight. If I had no weapon I would probably wind up dead also. My position is stated clearly in my signature. I would rather die once than every time I close my eyes. I would rather have the opportunity to defend self & family than have no equalizer.

Ala Dan
November 28, 2005, 12:18 AM
Besides, carrying a firearm carries with it a multitude of responsibility~!:uhoh:
When a split second decision has too be made, the outcome could become
real grim in a hurry. Make the wrong decision, and it could cost you your
life; or a stint in "the joint".:eek: Ponder what everyone has said carefully,
as it could mean the difference of life or death~!:fire:

Mr_Moore
November 28, 2005, 12:33 AM
Ponder what everyone has said carefully,
as it could mean the difference of life or death

I agree.

There is a ton of good advice in THR postings.

In fact THR has become one of my favorite spots on the internet.

cz75bdneos22
November 28, 2005, 12:34 AM
longtooth,

i hear you, bro..just that somepeople are in for a surprise when their own private SHTF moment happens to them. having a gun, under stress and unpredictably forced to draw will/can get you disarmed so quick and easy..i'm telling you...but i can definetly relate where people get the feeling of being protected by carrying a gun/knife-blade..just have a plan B, is what i say, in case you are disarmed/ equipment malfunctions. this will/can happen where/when you least expect it...your thoughts remind me of the immortal words of Emiliano Zapata. one of Mexico's legendary icons. " I would rather die standing, than spend a lifetime on my knees.." usually followed by Viva Zapata! Viva la revolucion! :what:

Mr_Moore
November 28, 2005, 12:36 AM
Sorry, double post.

Is there someway to delete a post?

EddieCoyle
November 28, 2005, 12:39 AM
I carry a gun because I was robbed at knifepoint. The next time that happens, the bad guy will find that he's brought a knife to a gunfight.

kjeff50cal
November 28, 2005, 12:54 AM
mr. moore, don't make the assumption that carrying a gun will give you immunity from being a victim..:rolleyes:
my uncle thought the same until he met someone who also was carrying a gun..:what:
he ended up dead with 16 shots all over his body..:(
i think we've all thought at one time how we'll do this and that if the situation ever arises.., but from experience, uneventful things seldom go by the best laid plans..it kind of reminds me of the day back in high school when a fellow classmate got his butt whipped up and down the courtyard by another classmate. he was a jerk with a big ego..he felt that because he was in karate and had a year's worth of classes under his belt. he could kick anybody's behind.+:mad:
well, as it always is there is somewhere outhere that is stronger, smarter, quicker or braver than oneself..so you know the rest of the story..
to prepare for combat is noble, but fear not the weapon, but the man..i think some japanese dude said that..sorry if i can't recall now. in any case, that's my .02/100..YMMV.:p what do i know??

That Bruce Lee wantabe's initials wouldn't be A. T. would it?:D

kjeff50cal

phoglund
November 28, 2005, 12:56 AM
Having a weapon and knowing how to use it, having unarmed combat skills, maintaining situational awarness, keeping in the best physical condition you can all increase your ability to survive a confrontation with the lowlifes of the world. They are not guarantees of survival. Does this mean we do nothing? I think not.

We all have a right to defend and protect ourselves and our loved ones. The original poster believes he has a better chance of exercising this right if he goes armed. Assuming a reasonable level of competence with his carry weapon I suspect he is indeed more capable of protecting himself if he carries a firearm than if he goes unarmed. Indeed, this is why I carry one as well.

cz75bdneos22
November 28, 2005, 01:11 AM
i can dig that..pho;)
i never meant to say fear=cowardice
be prepared that's it.
do what you gonna do, cuz i know what i'm going to do..
no dirty harry," go ahead, punk..make my day!!" just because you got a "gun"..
YMMV based on age, physical condition, training, life experience, psyche, etc...:D
again, nothing against carrying..damn it..it's your right to, if your state allows!:neener:
also, too... be careful who you call a "lowlife, cause that lowlife might just kill your A$!@!!!!

ny32182
November 28, 2005, 01:36 AM
Getting back to the original post, it doesn't sound like a gun would have helped the guy much... if the situation is as described. When inside a gas station with other people, how close are they? Normally, they are within contact distance. Obviously this guy was.

You say, "no, I don't have any change"... and a knife starts swinging at your throat? I don't know anybody that can draw that fast.

A gun is just one tool of many; its usefulness is limited by your skill in employing it, and the circumstances of the situation. It doesn't make one omnipotent, or guarantee victory in any confrontation. That seems to be the prevailing opinion in this thread, but not so in many others.

White Horseradish
November 28, 2005, 02:03 AM
your thoughts remind me of the immortal words of Emiliano Zapata. one of Mexico's legendary icons. " I would rather die standing, than spend a lifetime on my knees.." usually followed by Viva Zapata! Viva la revolucion! :what:

I always thought it was Dolores Ibarruri that said that...

Nematocyst
November 28, 2005, 04:19 AM
When a "when a stranger asks [me] for money for cigarettes",
I have my finger on my trigger when deciding whether to give him that money. Before I am tried in the court of public opinion, please allow me to edit that.

I have my finger on the weapon just above and to the right of the trigger.

Rule 3 (http://www.thehighroad.org/showpost.php?p=2040946&postcount=6): Keep your finger off the trigger until your sights are on target (and you have made the decision to shoot).

Nem

cz75bdneos22
November 28, 2005, 04:35 AM
white horse,
might be, so i'll be sure to let the people running the Palacio Nacional in Mexico City to redo their murals to give proper credit, as well to the thousands of rural Mexico's schoolyard murals change their credits also...:scrutiny: Damn! live and learn...i did not know that. i'm telling you...there are lies..and then there are L-I-E-S...!:what:

Val USP
November 28, 2005, 04:43 AM
I always thought it was Dolores Ibarruri that said that...
U're absolutely right - "I would rather die standing, than spend a lifetime on my knees.." usually followed Viva la revolucion! - Dolores said a long time ago - in 1936-1937 in Madrid

45Broomhandle
November 28, 2005, 05:27 AM
All boils down to: I'd rather have it and NOT NEED it, than to NOT HAVE it and need it. All other arguments are superfluous.

Nematocyst-870 said it right: When a stranger asks [me] for "money for cigarettes", I have my finger on my trigger when deciding whether to give him that money.

Keep your finger on your trigger, be aware of your surroundings, and remain alert - ESPECIALLY when you're standing out in the middle of a bunch of gas pumps and you're approached by a stranger. Gee, do you suppose they WANT something from you??? Even if it's only to ask the time of day or for a light, it may be a diversionary tactic for an accomplice to attack from another direction: remain aware and alert.

Just my two-cents worth. 45Broomhandle

http://www.hunt101.com/img/347092.jpg

___________________
It's hard to be religious when certain people are never incinerated by bolts of lightning. ---Calvin, of Calvin & Hobbs

Nematocyst
November 28, 2005, 05:38 AM
It's hard to be religious when certain people are never incinerated by bolts of lightning. ---Calvin, of Calvin & Hobbs LOL. :D

cz75bdneos22
November 28, 2005, 06:01 AM
he was born 1879-died 1919..gunned down by a man greater than him and Zapata was carrying too. the Mexican revolution began in 1910..while it may be credited to dolores..it wouldn't be the first or last time a quote has been misattributed (sp)...but what do i know..regardless i like it.:o sorry for going off topic...:o

Colt
November 28, 2005, 10:55 AM
I'd rather have it and NOT NEED it, than to NOT HAVE it and need it

I agree.

Carrying a concealed firearm is not a cure-all from being victimized by criminals. As described in the gas station situation above, even if armed, there are times that you may not be able to employ your weapon for defense, due to proximity, timing, etc... That may not always be the case, though.

Therefore:

I'd rather have it and be uanable to use it, than not have it when need and opportunity present themselves.

P.S. - This is why I think concealed carry is preferable to open carry. Even though open carry usually provides better/faster access to a firearm, there are some situations in which open carry is still not fast enough. In those cases, I feel open carry can get you killed, as you will be instantly perceived as a high-level threat.

YMMV

enfield303
November 28, 2005, 11:03 AM
If Zapata was born from 1879 to 1919, he musta been one huge baby! I wonder if his mom was the reason C-Sections were developed?:neener: :D

Biker
November 28, 2005, 11:10 AM
There are a million reasons to carry a gun, but on rare occasions, I've wished I hadn't been carrying. You just can't get into a scrap while carrying, if you can at all avoid it. And what is "YMMV"?
Biker

Feanaro
November 28, 2005, 12:06 PM
You say, "no, I don't have any change"... and a knife starts swinging at your throat? I don't know anybody that can draw that fast.

I doubt anyone can draw and fire that fast. That doesn't necessarily negate the firearm. You shouldn't let someone get that close. You might be able to defend against the initial attack, draw and fire at the "quarter hip" position. A slim chance but a better chance than with your fists, IMO. You shouldn't let someone get that close in the first place, of course.

solareclipse
November 28, 2005, 12:22 PM
It all depends on the situation. Guns are effective in cases where escalation can be seen some time ahead, like a bar dispute or such.

If someone is about to slash you, he will and nothing will save you unless you can manage a 2nd strike or just shoot before he approaches (which we all know is not an option unless you are in the battlefront)

Ala Dan
November 28, 2005, 12:51 PM
by solareclispe

"like a bar dispute or such". :uhoh:

Here in Alabama a CCW license is null and void if you are in an
establishment that serves alcoholic beverages~!:eek: :D

hayseed
November 28, 2005, 01:50 PM
I found this tread especially interesting because recently a fella got slashed repeatedly outside a local nightclub/bar. Apparently a guy who was earlier ejected returned with friends bent on trouble obviously, as he sliced up a guy (at least once in the neck) that happened to bump into him. :( Fourtunately it sounds like the victim will make it.
It really got my cranial hamster wheel spinning. How do you defend yourself from such a sudden attack? Bumping into stranger to repeated slashing in seconds?!? My first line of defese is to stay away from nightclubs and bars, but that doesn't work for everyone.

Val USP
November 28, 2005, 08:48 PM
Do you know what kind of trouble you may have if use gunfire IN your house against intruder if he/she got only knife...... in Golden state of CA :eek:

Don't even ask me :mad:

Bigjake
November 28, 2005, 09:05 PM
not sure about the highroaded-ness of this, but if it were me in this situation (armed), i would've done my very best to send the knife guy to his well deserved dirt nap ( assuming i could get a decent shot off after being slashed in the neck)

MassMan
November 28, 2005, 09:29 PM
I agree with many of the above posts. Bottom line, I would rather have one and not be able to use it, than not have one and need it. I don't carry all that often based on where I live. But, I do carry when I think there is even the remotest possibility of need to do so.

MassMan
November 28, 2005, 09:30 PM
[QUOTE=MassMan]I agree with many of the above posts. Bottom line, I would rather have one and not be able to use it, than not have one and need it. I don't carry all that often based on where I live. But, I do carry when I think there is even the remotest possibility of need to do so.

wdlsguy
November 28, 2005, 10:22 PM
Do you know what kind of trouble you may have if use gunfire IN your house against intruder if he/she got only knife...... in Golden state of CA

"Only" a knife?

Stasher1
November 28, 2005, 10:31 PM
by solareclispe

"like a bar dispute or such". :uhoh:

Here in Alabama a CCW license is null and void if you are in an
establishment that serves alcoholic beverages~!:eek: :D


Wrong. It varies from county to county, just like the cost of the permit. My Jefferson Co. pistol license does not have that restriction, and as a matter of fact it has a nice big green block in the upper right corner that says "unrestricted", unlike the ones I had from Cullman Co.

As far as I know, all of the AL CCW permits are null and void if you're under the influence, though.

Val USP
November 29, 2005, 02:19 PM
"Only" a knife?
if intruder with 'Only' knife - you may respond (in your house) with similar - knife or stick, BUT NOT gunfire.
And if you injure that person with stick - you probably will pay medical :uhoh:

mbs357
November 29, 2005, 02:49 PM
he was born 1879-1919
That's a pretty long labor.
His momma must have been tough.

wdlsguy
November 29, 2005, 11:16 PM
if intruder with 'Only' knife - you may respond (in your house) with similar - knife or stick, BUT NOT gunfire.
And if you injure that person with stick - you probably will pay medical :uhoh:

California Penal Code Section 198.5.
"Any person using force intended or likely to cause death or great bodily injury within his or her residence shall be presumed to have held a reasonable fear of imminent peril of death or great bodily injury to self, family, or a member of the household when that force is used against another person, not a member of the family or household, who unlawfully and forcibly enters or has unlawfully and forcibly entered the residence and the person using the force knew or had reason to believe that an unlawful and forcible entry occurred.

As used in this section, great bodily injury means a significant or substantial physical injury."

Val USP
November 30, 2005, 04:24 PM
California Penal Code Section 198.5.
"Any person using force intended or likely to cause death or great bodily injury within his or her residence shall be presumed to have held a reasonable fear of imminent peril of death or great bodily injury to self, family, or a member of the household when that force is used against another person, not a member of the family or household, who unlawfully and forcibly enters or has unlawfully and forcibly entered the residence and the person using the force knew or had reason to believe that an unlawful and forcible entry occurred.

As used in this section, great bodily injury means a significant or substantial physical injury."

I agree with you. In Penal Code you can find this information. But it maybe difficult to prove in the court - it was the true

cz75bdneos22
December 1, 2005, 01:29 AM
There are a million reasons to carry a gun, but on rare occasions, I've wished I hadn't been carrying. You just can't get into a scrap while carrying, if you can at all avoid it. And what is "YMMV"?
Biker

YMMV= used by some in the motorcycle community as in your mileage may vary, meaning....all/your perceptions are relative to the time, place and situation of the perciever/you..or something like that.:neener:

GunnySkox
December 1, 2005, 01:46 AM
in any case, that's my .02/100..YMMV.

.0002? You put in two ten-thousandths of a cent? Cheapskate!

:D

~GnSx

sm
December 1, 2005, 02:01 AM
One never knows the where or when of next encounter-CRSam

beaucoup ammo
December 1, 2005, 12:27 PM
Being a member of the "Disabled" Community (call me handicapped or whatever you like..it doesn't really matter!) I'm perceived as an "EZ Mark" since I use a cane..and, on occasion, a power chair for long trips to the mall.

I've been mugged once..shame on me! A 2nd time? Not without an improved chance at escaping with my...and more importantly, my wife's..life.

On the upside, the concealment possibilities with a power chair are many! :O)

The cane, when used properly, is a fine club and/or distraction while you go for the gun.

Take Care

Biker
December 1, 2005, 12:38 PM
YMMV= used by some in the motorcycle community as in your mileage may vary, meaning....
Aha! Thanks. It was just too obvious...
:)
Biker

Nematocyst
December 1, 2005, 03:16 PM
The cane, when used properly, is a fine club and/or distraction while you go for the gun. Beaucoup ammo, take this with a grain of salt, because I may have dreamed it or seen it in an adventure/sci-fi film, but it seems I remember once seeing a cane with a gun built into it.

Now that would be cool. :cool:

Nem

beaucoup ammo
December 1, 2005, 03:27 PM
No dream! I believe it was a James Bond flick...but I do recall the same item!

It would be cool..and very handy!

Take Care

Nematocyst
December 1, 2005, 03:52 PM
No dream! I believe it was a James Bond flick...but I do recall the same item! You're right, Beaucoup.

I just googled for an image, but nothing turned up.

However, check this out (http://www.cnn.com/2003/US/Northeast/09/04/pizza.bomb/). I remember this event, but didn't remember the cane gun. How bizzare.)

"ERIE, Pennsylvania (CNN) -- A cane-shaped device capable of firing like a gun was found in the possession of a Pennsylvania pizza deliveryman who was killed by a bomb clamped around his neck, a source confirmed to CNN Thursday.

The source described as "very accurate" a report in The New York Times that said the weapon was shaped like a walking cane and possibly made in a machine shop.

FBI Special Agent Ken McCabe said the weapon was found in the deliveryman's car.

Police said Brian Douglas Wells, 46, robbed a bank August 28 while wearing the bomb locked to his neck by a homemade metal collar. "

{more on the page}

GunnySkox
December 1, 2005, 03:52 PM
The male lead in The Cat Who Walks Through Walls had a pretty serious cane gun. If you were a Clever Dan, you could probably work up some kind of tubular-mag-fed rifle, prehaps a pump action, or a revolver-type, made to look like a slim, L-shaped cane. Have to be in a little caliber, though to fit and be useful as its original purpose, and the BATFE might throw you in the Sarlac if you do anything without informing them in quadruplicate first.

~GnSx

White Horseradish
December 1, 2005, 07:38 PM
U're absolutely right - "I would rather die standing, than spend a lifetime on my knees.." usually followed Viva la revolucion! - Dolores said a long time ago - in 1936-1937 in Madrid

In September 1936 Ibárruri was sent to France and Belgium to rally support for the Republic. At one meeting she used the phrase "the Spanish people would rather die on its feet than live on its knees."

From http://www.spartacus.schoolnet.co.uk/SPibarruri.htm

Zapata's slogan seems to have been "Tierra y Libertad"

beaucoup ammo
December 1, 2005, 07:41 PM
I remember the "Erie" incident well. If I had the tech acumen, no doubt I could fashion a weapon along those lines.

Alas, my smithing abilities are on par with a hampster, so I'll have to go along with what's available in the local store and on the web...for now!

I would caution everyone that an accident can happen in the blink of an eye, but you can turn those "lemons into lemonade" with the additional concealment options that canes, chairs, etc. offer.

Take Care

ka50
December 1, 2005, 09:04 PM
mr. moore, don't make the assumption that carrying a gun will give you immunity from being a victim..:rolleyes:

:confused: :scrutiny:

Let's just give up our guns now and comply. Some people are just rude, just do what they say and they will not hurt anyone.

It's for the children.


If you're not confident in your abilities you will lose any confrontation, with guns or without.
Drawing a fireing takes around one second, even slashed once you can make many holes in him before his second slash. Victim is the only one who doesn't resist. If you're confident in your abilities you can only be defeated, but not victimized.

Val USP
December 1, 2005, 09:47 PM
From http://www.spartacus.schoolnet.co.uk/SPibarruri.htm

Zapata's slogan seems to have been "Tierra y Libertad"

"I would rather die standing, than spend a lifetime on my knees.." - Dolores said a long time ago - in 1936-1937 in Madrid

Quote:
In September 1936 Ibárruri was sent to France and Belgium to rally support for the Republic. At one meeting she used the phrase "the Spanish people would rather die on its feet than live on its knees."

And on another site I found - "Better to die on one's feet than to live on one's knees."
From my point of view - it's looks the same :p

cz75bdneos22
December 2, 2005, 01:34 AM
:confused: :scrutiny:

Let's just give up our guns now and comply. Some people are just rude, just do what they say and they will not hurt anyone.

It's for the children.


If you're not confident in your abilities you will lose any confrontation, with guns or without.
Drawing a fireing takes around one second, even slashed once you can make many holes in him before his second slash. Victim is the only one who doesn't resist. If you're confident in your abilities you can only be defeated, but not victimized.
sir, never said anything about not carrying, or being able to possess a gun, or anyones level of "confidence"..i, just like you, are here to learn. i take evertything that is positive and better myself. the rest is useless,... no-better yet, it's "entertainment" i am not superhuman. i am not infallible. i bleed just like the rest of you. always, i avoid confrontation. i use my head. i train as best i can given what i've been given. i live in peace. as i always say, there is someone outhere that is the greater man than myself/ourselves. stronger, faster, more experienced, better trained, smarter,better educated etc..etc..do what you can, what you have been trained to do, what your common sense tells you..but sir exceptions to the rules are anything but true..again, "YMMV" do what you gonna do, cuz i know what i am going to do..i bid you peace, sir.;)

Nematocyst
December 2, 2005, 02:43 AM
cz75bdneos22, nice sig file.

;)

Nem

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