Anyone using 5.4gr bullseye in 45acp?


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ATAShooter
November 27, 2005, 10:24 PM
Is anybody out there using 5.4gr Bullseye in a 45acp with a 230 Rainier? I have been loading 5.0 which by Alliant is max, however sometimes I get a partial eject to where casing is half still in chamber factory ammo doesn't do it ( Glock G36). Compared to factory ammo, they feel light. Yes, I use a scale to double check weights. I increased it to 5.4 and it feels good, functions great, and I can mix in factory ammo and not even be able to tell which is which... HOWEVER,... this going over Alliants 5.0 has got me nervous... Opinions?

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Vitamin G
November 27, 2005, 10:28 PM
Nope, just using 4.9 because i'm generally conservative, and these were my first .45acp loads. Felt like factory WWB to me though.

Have any data on your 5.4gr? fps? +P brass?

ATAShooter
November 27, 2005, 10:53 PM
No data... You see, I had read an old post on here of a fellow who was having the same problems as me. And it turns out his powder charge was too light to power the recoil spring in his Glock.. He had increased it and it fixed the problem... I had been loading 5.0 according to Alliants manual and having those weirdo problems. I use a Lee auto disc measure on .53 hole, so I went 1 hole up to a .57 and that puts me at 5.3 to 5.4grs, and now it functions flawless. It's just that 5.0 keeps banging in my head and has me worried. I'm going to buy a chrony and start getting some readings.

Oh yea, I saw a warning from the administrator so let me post this..

THIS POST IS BEYOND ALLIANTS RECCOMENDATION... DO NOT ATTEMPT THIS LOAD. FOR THE ILLITERATE.... NO NO NO... BAD BAD BAD.

alellis
November 28, 2005, 07:29 AM
No data... You see, I had read an old post on here of a fellow who was having the same problems as me. And it turns out his powder charge was too light to power the recoil spring in his Glock.. He had increased it and it fixed the problem... I had been loading 5.0 according to Alliants manual and having those weirdo problems. I use a Lee auto disc measure on .53 hole, so I went 1 hole up to a .57 and that puts me at 5.3 to 5.4grs, and now it functions flawless. It's just that 5.0 keeps banging in my head and has me worried. I'm going to buy a chrony and start getting some readings.

Oh yea, I saw a warning from the administrator so let me post this..

THIS POST IS BEYOND ALLIANTS RECCOMENDATION... DO NOT ATTEMPT THIS LOAD. FOR THE ILLITERATE.... NO NO NO... BAD BAD BAD.

A friend shoots a Gold cup and loads 3.6g of bullseye and it cycles perfectly.

He has made no modifications.

al

deadin
November 28, 2005, 10:03 AM
You might give Wolff Springs a try and ease up a bit on your recoil spring.
5.4 of Bullseye/230 gr. is pushing it. Bullseye is a really fast powder and the pressure curve may be what is causing you problem. Personally, I would try a different powder. (231 comes to mind)

Dean

halvey
November 28, 2005, 10:28 AM
Is your OAL exactly the same as the book? If you are loaded long, you may drop velocity a lot.

For example, Lyman says OAL for a .380 100 gr RN to be 0.955. Alliant, says 0.975, another manual 0.980.

0.955's recoil is stout. 0.975 is not.

ATAShooter
November 28, 2005, 10:51 AM
Min OAL in book is 1.19 my actual is 1.21 HOWEVER... this morning we had a problem,... a case split down the side. SO, I ain't gonna do this anymore and will go to a slower powder like DEDIN suggested. Besides, I figure, If I am on here feeling nervous or scared of it, then even if it was ok, I still shouldn't use it. SO, to let you guys know,.. it did rupture a case and is BAD.:banghead:

halvey
November 28, 2005, 11:03 AM
What book are you using? Does it give the OAL for the exact bullet? Or is it just a range for all .45 bullets?

If you are loading overmax with a close to minimum OAL, I'd be very careful, especially with that Glock. I have used a load similiar to yours, but I believe my OAL was 1.275 - I try to load as long as possible.

Lennyjoe
November 28, 2005, 11:08 AM
No on the bullseye but I do use 5.5gr of W231 and 230gr Rainer's with no problem.

ATAShooter
November 28, 2005, 11:14 AM
The 1.19 min was alliant for the 5.0 load for a 230 rn jacketed... now, the Lyman book says 5.3gr is ok at 1.275 oal.... I just don't feel good about this, with the case splitting and all... I'm gonna get a slower powder, my hands are worth it to me.

halvey
November 28, 2005, 11:19 AM
I know nothing about 231, but is it that much slower than Bullseye?

If you are worried about your hands, I'd get a new recoil spring before switching powders.

ATAShooter
November 28, 2005, 11:34 AM
I'm getting ready to run up and get some Power Pistol. It has roughly 1/2 the burn rate of Bullseye. According to pressures, it will probably have a tad bit more recoil, but that don't bother me none. Blowing up stuff does.

antarti
November 28, 2005, 02:14 PM
Felt like factory WWB to me though.

After much shooting of Star PDs and other light-alloy/small .45s for the last 15 years, I had only recently gotten used to govt size and steel-frame 45s.

Honestly, I have yet to be able to tell the difference between WWB and 185grn starting loads, or 185grn max loads (except for muzzle flash). In the fullsize pistol with stock recoil springs, everything pretty much feels the same... That is not the case for a Star (or the small new Kahr polymer .45).

So far, everything feels the same in a govt 1911, which means pretty tame and soft compared to what I was used to.

I would be very leery of going on "feel" for anything in .45acp. My sense of it is (pardon the pun) shot due to shooting more recoil-prone pistols. YMMV.

caz223
November 28, 2005, 03:01 PM
For .45, the top tier is power pistol, unique, HS-6, WSF, and stuff in that area of burn rate.
Anything else is hard on you or your gun.
It will 'feel' hotter, but be easier on your gun.

There are also gamers who prefer clays/bullseye, etc, because of reduced recoil but it's a trade-off.
I have never had bad luck with unique. It's EXTREMELY versatile.
Power pistol is kinda strange stuff, it gets more consistant as your barrel gets longer, so maybe something else would be a better match for your G36.
Also, if your G36 is compensated, PP will put up quite a lightshow.

Yeah, if you had a split case with a .45, something is WRONG.

ATAShooter
November 28, 2005, 04:16 PM
YEAH BABY !!!! Just got back and loaded 7.2gr. Power Pistol. Book said OAL min was 1.19 so I put them at 1.25... THUNDER !!! It seems like a heavy round but I love it and so did the Glock. On the other hand, my daughter shot some out of the 1911, she said it was rough on her hand. So, I'll load seperate for us. Oh Yeah... I like it... " Mongo like candy" :D :D :D

deadin
November 28, 2005, 04:35 PM
I have never had bad luck with unique. It's EXTREMELY versatile.


I like Unique in 45 ACP. The only problem is it's a little dirty and doesn't meter as well as a ball powder.

Dean

The Bushmaster
November 28, 2005, 05:46 PM
Another vote for W-231 in any loadings for .45 ACP. I have used the low end and the +P end with great success with 185 gr Remington HPs and Hornady 185gr XTPs. I am using a Colt Series 80 with some customizing for combat use...

JMusic
November 28, 2005, 06:57 PM
I use that load for 185 grainers only. I go to Unique for anything heavier.

ChiefPilot
November 28, 2005, 09:27 PM
Is anybody out there using 5.4gr Bullseye in a 45acp with a 230 Rainier? I have been loading 5.0 which by Alliant is max, however sometimes I get a partial eject to where casing is half still in chamber factory ammo doesn't do it ( Glock G36). Compared to factory ammo, they feel light. Yes, I use a scale to double check weights. I increased it to 5.4 and it feels good, functions great, and I can mix in factory ammo and not even be able to tell which is which... HOWEVER,... this going over Alliants 5.0 has got me nervous... Opinions?

I've been using 4.2gr of Bullseye under a 230gr Ranier and had excellent results, for what it's worth...

GunAdmirer
November 28, 2005, 10:39 PM
2 thoughts.

Alliant lists a minimum OAL. Your actual OAL should be closer to max - say 1.260-1.265" with a 230 grain FMJ. You need to follow a Speer, Hornady or Lyman reloading manual for proper OALS. I also measure factory rounds for OAL and crimp comparisons.

Your gun should cycle fine with a variety of light to heavy loads.

I would check into a new factory recoil spring assembly or a Wolff rod and spring. You also need to make sure you are flaring and then crimping the case mouth properly. Too little flare and the case will bulge when seating bullets. Too little crimp and the round won't chamber properly.

If you load too short you will get excessive pressure. If you load to long you will run into feeding problems. It's best to try to follow the manuals for OAL or duplicate the measurements from a similar factory round.

I have had good results with Bullseye in light target and full powered loads.

Lennyjoe
November 28, 2005, 10:45 PM
I use Power Pistol for +P loads with 200gr Speer Gold Dot JHP's.

JackOfAllTradesMasterAtNone
November 28, 2005, 11:50 PM
"No data... You see, I had read an old post on here of a fellow who was having the same problems as me. And it turns out his powder charge was too light to power the recoil spring in his Glock.. He had increased it and it fixed the problem..."

I gotta go with Deadin.. Your search for a powder and charge that will propel the slide back at lightening speed, that your daughter feels is a bit hot for her 1911, that you'll load separate for the two guns- Doesn't make sense to me. A split case too? Never have I ever split a case with 45acp. And I don't know how many thousands of reloads I've fired. (44 and 357 mag yes, but those were hot loads.)

Changing a recoil spring is the proper thing to do. Especially if the lighter loads are accurate and have the velocity/power needed to knock down pins or push plates over.

I'm not a Glock fan, Or any polymer framed gun fan for that matter. (Actually, the only thing I don't like about the Glock is the trigger and how it feels) But to load it hot would not be tops on my list of things to do. Not that any other 1911 style would better handle it, but from what you've explained, I don't know that a slower powder -although proving to be successful now, is the best answer.

If I were to have searched for a different powder for the 230gn bullet, I would have gone with 231 or in a pinch, with Unique.

But personally, I would have tested the 5.0gn Bullseye loads in a different pistol. Then adjusted the Glock.

Recently my Kimber was throwing casings 25 feet from my shooting stance. I installed a heavier Colt recoil spring. Cases now drop just over my right shoulder. I did not adjust the target proven load. And by slowing the slide with a heavier spring, I have reduced the slam wear on the pistol. -Something to think about with your Glock.

-Steve

jondar
November 30, 2005, 02:53 PM
I load 5.2 grains of Bullseye as a standard load. the old 1918 Colt just gobbles them up. No excessive recoil. Doesn't feel as hot as factory. this is with the 230 grain LRN. Primers, while not an absolute judge of pressure appear to be moderate pressure.

Ol Retired Gunney
December 9, 2005, 01:58 AM
not much difference in my glock 21 or my colt 1911.They love um both and no pressure problems.

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