[Mike Irwin]

They "DEMAND" it?

:cuss: them.

If they want a role, let them put up a military force to force it.

The only message Powell should have for them is F.O.A.D.

From Reuters...


BRUSSELS, Belgium (Reuters) - Secretary of State Colin Powell (news -
web sites) faced near-unanimous demands from EU and NATO (news - web
sites) states Thursday to give the United Nations (news - web sites) a key
role in postwar Iraq (news - web sites) but did not spell out how Washington
would share power there.

Powell said the United Nations should be a
partner in running Iraq after President Saddam
Hussein is overthrown but
that the United States and Britain should lead
the transition from a military administration to
an Iraqi-run government.

European Union and NATO
leaders came out of a series of meetings with
Powell, their first major session with him since
U.S. and British forces invaded Iraq last month,
saying they saw a possible transatlantic
consensus emerging on the U.N. role.

Powell also said the North Atlantic Treaty
Organization might provide peacekeeping
troops for postwar Iraq since no member
objected to that. France, Germany and Belgium
opposed a prewar plan for NATO to help boost
Turkey's defenses.

"There will definitely be a U.N. role but what the
exact nature of that role will be remains to be
seen," Powell told a news conference after
more than 20 meetings.

He was quoted as saying in an advanced edition of Friday's Le Figaro: "The
desirable role for the United Nations must be worked out. It should
administer humanitarian aid and give its blessing to the temporary authority
that will be appointed."

The United States expects to run the oil-rich country after the war, arguing it
has risked its soldiers' lives and spent billions of dollars to prepare it for
representative government, but it has invited its allies to help pay for
emergency aid.

AFGHAN MODEL

Britain, Washington's closest ally on Iraq, stressed the need to hand power
to the Iraqi people as soon as possible.

Foreign Secretary Jack Straw made clear London wanted the United
Nations to play a role similar to the one it played in Afghanistan (news - web
sites), where it oversaw a conference to name a new Kabul government and
its inauguration within six weeks in 2001.

"There will have to be a lot of detailed discussion before we reach a
conclusion about the exact role of the United Nations in post-conflict Iraq,
but there will be an important role," Straw said.

"We are advocating to everybody that the country should be handed over to
the Iraqi people as quickly as possible," he told reporters. "It's not about the
U.N. running postwar Iraq, it's about the Iraqi people running postwar Iraq."

Greek Foreign Minister George Papandreou and NATO Secretary-General
George Robertson said they saw moves toward closing the splits that
developed over Iraq in the weeks before the war.

"We see a consensus emerging," said Papandreou, whose country holds
the rotating EU presidency. "The importance we place on the United Nations
role is recognized by the United States."

Robertson spoke of "a growing consensus in the future," but others
attending the talks were more cautious.

Chris Patten, the EU's external relations commissioner, told Britain's Sky
TV he found "quite a lot of agreement on general principles, but there's still
an awful lot of talking to do."

Powell's daylong visit, crammed with bilateral sessions and a NATO foreign
ministers council, included meetings with leading anti-war European foreign
ministers -- Dominique de Villepin of France, Igor Ivanov of Russia and
Germany's Joschka Fischer.

Powell, seen as the most moderate figure in Washington, also consulted
on ideas on the Middle East peace process and said Washington wanted to
publish the "road map" to push that process forward, a U.S. official said.

[Nathaniel Firethorn]

This can be worked out in a variety of ways. The EU nations can participate:

* Proportionally to the amount of money they spent to liberate Iraq.

* Proportionally to the number of troops they sent to liberate Iraq.

* Proportionally to the number of lives they lost to liberate Iraq.

Participation proportionally to the amount of apoplectic banging of shoes on tables in Brussels is a non-starter.

Oh, yeah. One more thing: Selling prohibited munitions to Saddam should disqualify any nation proven to be doing so.

- pdmoderator

[Standing Wolf]

It's time for the United States to drop out of the United Nations and relocate it to Nigeria.

[clem]

The United Nations can eat "S--T and die" for all I care. And I hope the W makes them pay.
Rectums!:fire:

[seeker_two]

Remember the story of the hen baking the pie?...

They don't help=they don't get anything!

Let's see what a little oil money can do for countries like Bulgaria, Hungary, and Australia...

(And don't forget Morocco. They DID offer us mine monkeys, after all...:D )

[Mike Irwin]

Great.

Offer Morocco bananas for their monkeys, then.

[WilderBill]

...and people in hell want ice water, too.

[foghornl]

Hmmmm

Once Iraq is back to being a fully functional country, they will need sewer workers, dog catchers, street cleaners, camel tenders........

[Leatherneck]

Foreign Secretary Jack Straw made clear London wanted the United Nations to play a role similar to the one it played in Afghanistan (news - web
sites), where it oversaw a conference to name a new Kabul government and
its inauguration within six weeks in 2001.

That sounds about right--they can cater the conference where the Coalition decides how to establish the new Iraqi Government. :D

TC
TFL Survivor

[TallPine]

Oh my, I have this picture in my head, but alas I am no photo manipulation whiz ... an Uncle Sam poster pointing his "finger" and and saying: "I want YOU, to shut ...... up" (well, you get the idea - fill in the blanks)

[H Romberg]

What the heck makes the UN imagine its will has ANY relevance to the current or future situation in Iraq? The standard approach seems to be:

1. Hold back till someone wins.

2. Claim Credit

3. Demand a share of the "spoils"

The fact that those hyenas are given the dignity of a prime piece of New Yourk real-estate is a travesty. If we hand over the fate of Iraq to that bunch of ...........BUREAUCRATS, it'll be like taking a dump on the grave of every soldier to die in this war. We are fighting this war to build a world that WE can live in, in peace and safety.

The UN has no such ambitions. It's chief goals end up being to disarm civilians, outlaw land mines, and collect American tax dollars for distribution to "developing" nations. Screw that. All it's good for is attracting corruption, wasting money, and developing dependence. Nations develop when their governments create a climate conducive to investment by their citizens (in skills acquisition), and by foreigners (in new ventures).

If we can set Iraq up with a government that will do that, they'll become a good trading partner in the years to come. If we hand it over to the "international community" for decision through some committe......well, we've all seen how well the international community handled the Palestine/Israel issue. We need to (politely) tell the UN to keep it's nose out of ruling the world, and leave the furthering of free market capitalist democracy to those of us who know how to make it work.

In short, Iraq is OUR sandbox for the momnent. Leave us alone for a while while we fix it up.

[TallPine]

We need to (politely) tell the UN to keep it's nose out of ruling the world

The "polite" part is unnecessary and unproductive. Look how far we got with Saddam by being "polite" (under Clinton).

The UN can go ... (use your imagination) :fire:

[Smurfslayer]

The UN, France etc... need to calm down, get their panties out of a bunch and pour themselves a nice tall glass of SHUT UP JUICE!

I'm quite honestly disappointed at Kuwait & Saudi Arabia's treatment of us since we pushed Iraq back within it's borders. I'll bet they'll be quick to forget yet again. Personally, I think the UN & Nato countries not willing to participate, should get NADA. Nothing. Zip. OTOH, I think we had better hang around to ensure : 1: regional stability, what's left of Iraq's military may be vulnerable to Syria, Iran or both. 2: Goodwill. Keep a strong presence there to help out w/ rebuilging, food, etc... and we just may end up with a decent trade ally, like...Japan

I don't think we should be "dividing up the spoils" but rather helping the Iraqi citizens get back to a more normal life in more representative type of governmental society...

just a couple thoughts...

[Airwolf]

More from the day after the meeting...

http://www.nytimes.com/2003/04/04/international/worldspecial/04CND-FRANCE.html?ex=1050123600&en=605dd136fb2a987e&ei=5062&partner=GOOGLE

France, Russia and Germany Want Role in Rebuilding Iraq
By JOHN TAGLIABUE

ARIS, April 4 — A day after the United States and its European allies agreed on significant international cooperation in rebuilding Iraq, France, Russia, and Germany sought today to stake out as extensive a United Nations role as possible in reconstructing the shattered country.

Meeting in Paris, the foreign ministers of the three countries called for the United Nations to be given an immediate role in dealing with an "emergency humanitarian situation" in Iraq. Their remarks underscored the gap that remains in detail over how broad the United Nations role should be.

Speaking one day after Secretary of States Colin L. Powell met with the foreign ministers of 23 European countries, the ministers also called for the earliest possible halt to the fighting in Iraq.

The Russian foreign minister, Igor S. Ivanov, who joined with France last month in thwarting a United Nations Security Council resolution authorizing the war, said today, "We must insist today on the earliest possible cessation of hostilities."

Addressing a joint news conference after their meeting, Mr. Ivanov said: "The earlier the war is finished the better it will be, including for the United States."

On Thursday, Mr. Powell said that the coalition led by Britain and the United States would play, at least initially, the leading role in Iraq, but that they were prepared to cooperate with the international community and most notably the United Nations.

The French foreign minister, Dominique de Villepin said it was "absolutely natural" that in the "security phase, the forces present on the ground have a specific responsibility."

Standing with Mr. Ivanov at the news conference, he added that, "there should be no discussion either on the principle or on the terms" of United Nations participation in Iraq.

"No country or countries can hope to win the war alone," he said. "Nobody can hope to build peace alone."
Britain's Prime Minister Tony Blair pledged today that a post-war Iraq would be run by Iraqis, not by British or American officials, and that British troops would not remain in Iraq any longer than necessary.

Mr. Blair has been treading a thin line between American insistence that its officials be able to deal with situations in postwar Iraq without having to obtain permission from an outside authority and the insistence of some European powers that the United Nations take on an organizing role as early possible.

Germany's foreign minister, Joschka Fischer, who sided with France in opposing a Security Council resolution for war, said there was a "very broad convergence of views on the central role of the United Nations."

There was considerable difference in tone from the last meeting the three ministers held in Paris on March 5. Then, France and Russia threatened to use their vetoes as permanent Security Council members to block any authorization of force in Iraq. Germany is a nonpermanent Council member.

Though some European governments have insisted on having some degree of influence on the shape of postwar Iraq, insisting for instance on the earliest possible involvement of Iraqis in a postwar government, Mr. Ivanov said it was "premature to talk of modalities after the war as long as the hostilities continue."

"Our efforts are aimed above all at ending the war and resolving the humanitarian problems," he said. Emphasizing that the Europeans sought a harmonious relationship with the United States, he said, "We address these words to our partners, with whom we are maintaining dialogue, since the end of the war can only profit everyone."

But Mr. De Villepin appeared to suggest that United Nations involvement should go even further than just humanitarian assistance. There should, he said, be assurances of the territorial integrity of postwar Iraq and the equitable distribution of reconstruction work on the basis of public tenders.

"The first emergency is humanitarian," he said. He added that, "every outlook for the future of Iraq should take into account the state of Iraq after the war."

Describing Iraq as a "country whose unity is fragile," he said that "in an open crisis of such importance the very principle of international legitimacy is a problem to which we are all attached and about which there can be no discussion."

Mr. De Villepin criticized the awarding of contracts to United States companies for the reconstruction of Iraq. French businessmen have grown increasingly nervous recently by the prospect that the United States, upset over French leadership in the effort to block the war, might punish French companies by boycotting their products or closing markets and contracts to the French.

"Iraq is not a cake or an El Dorado to be divided up," Mr. De Villepin said. "These initiatives do not take into consideration the world as it really is."

[whoami]

The Russian foreign minister, Igor S. Ivanov, who joined with France last month in thwarting a United Nations Security Council resolution authorizing the war, said today, "We must insist today on the earliest possible cessation of hostilities."

To paraphrase the commander in chief: We have begun this war, at a time and place of our choosing. Thusly, we will end this war ONLY at a time and place of OUR choosing.

Until you field men and equipment on OUR side of the conflict, Igor, you can flap your gums but you hold NO WEIGHT as to decisions regarding the strategy and execution of the conflict.

Britain's Prime Minister Tony Blair pledged today that a post-war Iraq would be run by Iraqis, not by British or American officials, and that British troops would not remain in Iraq any longer than necessary.

I really hope this happens. Considering some of the plans being floated around regarding immediate post war governmental issues, we could be trashing every single gain we've made so far.

Though some European governments have insisted on having some degree of influence on the shape of postwar Iraq, insisting for instance on the earliest possible involvement of Iraqis in a postwar government, Mr. Ivanov said it was "premature to talk of modalities after the war as long as the hostilities continue."

Considering the preceeding statement "...Meeting in Paris, the foreign ministers of the three countries called for the United Nations to be given an immediate role in dealing with an "emergency humanitarian situation" in Iraq. ", and in light of the words of Messers Fischer, and De Villepin, there is only one conclusion.

Russia=France=Germany=HYPOCRITES!

"Iraq is not a cake or an El Dorado to be divided up," Mr. De Villepin said. "These initiatives do not take into consideration the world as it really is."

I think if Mr. De Villepin needs to realize the fundamental fact that the French view of the word and the world as it currently is are two VERY different things.

Of course, when considering this:
Mr. De Villepin criticized the awarding of contracts to United States companies for the reconstruction of Iraq. French businessmen have grown increasingly nervous recently by the prospect that the United States, upset over French leadership in the effort to block the war, might punish French companies by boycotting their products or closing markets and contracts to the French.

So, if Iraq is not a 'cake or an El Dorado to be divided up', then why is Mr. De Villepin so critical of the methods of awarding contracts?

Somebody ought to telegram the French government. Three Words:

POT. KETTLE. BLACK.

[DFBonnett]

Heard that french Coupe-Deville- pain-in-the-***-surrender-monkey whining about it. Screw them! Where were their guys when the feces hit the air circulator?
Powell hit it on the head. Nato has a role and we will tell them what it will be.

[hops]

U.N. for humanitarian aid at worst, no role at best. NATO, perhaps, for tempoary security at best. Keep it at the planning council level. It is sort of a NATO op already. Even the Germans have forces in the region for support. That will really irk the French and and the Ruskies. The Germans and Belgians should follow along as they did with Turkish defence issues.

The EU, fat chance. As bad as the UN as far as I am concerned.