[jpIII]

http://www.atf.treas.gov/firearms/112305openletter.pdf

Looks like the barrel ban may not be taking place after all. As long as importers can show a dual purpose for the barrel being imported. (such as replacement of an old or unuseable barrel that is on a "sporting" importable firearm)

So what do you think? Is this a good thing, or is it merely neutral?

OPEN LETTER TO FEDERALLY LICENSED FIREARMS IMPORTERS
AND REGISTERED IMPORTERS OF U.S. MUNITIONS IMPORT LIST ARTICLES
The Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms and Explosives (ATF) strives to keep industry members informed of relevant statutory and regulatory developments that may affect their dayto-day business operations. The purpose of this open letter is to update licensed and registered importers of firearms, ammunition and other regulated commodities on the lawful importation of certain firearm barrels into the United States for commercial purposes. In an open letter dated July 13, 2005, licensed and registered importers were advised that the provisions of 18 U.S.C. § 925(d)(3) established the standards for the importation of firearms and
ammunition into the United States. In particular, section 925(d)(3) provides that the Attorney General shall authorize a firearm to be imported if it meets several conditions: (1) it is not defined as a firearm under the National Firearms Act (NFA); (2) it is generally recognized to be particularly suitable for or readily adaptable to sporting purposes; and (3) it is not a surplus military firearm. However, the subsection further provides that “in any case where the Attorney General has not authorized the importation of the firearm pursuant to this paragraph, it shall be unlawful to import any frame, receiver, or barrel of such firearm which would be prohibited if assembled.”
Importers were further advised that ATF has determined that the language of section 925(d)(3) permits no exceptions that would allow the frames, receivers, or barrels for otherwise nonimportable firearms to be imported into the United States. As a result, ATF would no longer approve ATF Form 6 import permit applications for importation of any frames, receivers, or barrels for firearms that would be prohibited from importation if assembled. No exceptions to the statutory language, for example for the repair or replacement of existing firearms, will be allowed.
ATF recognizes that certain firearm barrels may be used to assemble either an importable or a nonimportable firearm. With this fact in mind, ATF believes that such “dual use” barrels would be eligible for importation into the United States under section 925(d)(3) for commercial purposes, provided prospective importers of such barrels make representations indicating that neither the importer nor subsequent purchasers of the barrels will use the barrels to assemble nonimportable firearms. Importers of such barrels must provide sufficient information, e.g., specific model designation(s) of the firearm(s) that the barrels will be used to assemble, in the “Specific Purpose of Importation” section of the ATF Form 6 that would enable ATF personnel to establish that the barrels sought for importation are being imported for the assembly into importable firearms. If the dual use barrels are being imported for resale to third parties, the importer must state in the “Specific Purpose of Importation” section of the ATF Form 6 that purchasers have been or will be advised that the barrels may only be used for assembly into certain importable models and must list the specific models for which the barrels will be sold. Inclusion of a model not known to be sporting may require the submission of a sample for evaluation to determine if importation of the barrels will be approved. The Firearms and Explosives Imports Branch staff is available to answer your questions about the issues addressed in this letter. You may reach them by telephone at 202-927-8320 or by fax at 202-927-2697.
Sincerely yours,
Audrey Stucko
Deputy Assistant Director
(Enforcement Programs and Services)

[beerslurpy]

Oh, I'm sorry, July 13th was OPPOSITE DAY. What we really meant to say was that everyone who was importing the parts may continue to do so.

I'm guessing enough people whined and someone listened.

[jpIII]

If my understanding is correct, here is what seems to have happened.

ATF decides to crack down on homebuilds of non-importable firearms using imported parts - hence July 13th letter.

For some reason unknown to us, ATF recants.

New stipulations are that If the dual use barrels are being imported for resale to third parties, the importer must state in the “Specific Purpose of Importation” section of the ATF Form 6 that purchasers have been or will be advised that the barrels may only be used for assembly into certain importable models and must list the specific models for which the barrels will be sold.

Homebuilders will now be supplied a list of pre-appoved "sporting arms" that they may use the barrels on.

However, if my reading is correct, the ATF is caught in a catch 22.
They can't prevent the importation of barrels that can be used on "sporting arms", and there is no law against the building of a "non-sporting" firearm from imported parts. There is only a law against importing the parts.

ATF seems to be caught between a rock and a hard place. They can't prevent the barrels coming in, and they can't prevent homebuilders from using them.

Interesting situation indeed.

[Standing Wolf]

I've never seen anything in the Second Amendment about the right to keep and bear sporting arms.

Why don't we just pull the B.A.T.F.E.'s financial plug?

[Crosshair]

Standing Wolf

I've never seen anything in the Second Amendment about the right to keep and bear sporting arms.

Why don't we just pull the B.A.T.F.E.'s financial plug?

A well placed line item in a finance bill could take care of that.:D

[yorec]

Agreed SW... After all, an infringement IS an infringement. :cuss:

[F4GIB]

For some reason unknown to us, ATF recants..

A truly historic event!

[jpIII]

I've never seen anything in the Second Amendment about the right to keep and bear sporting arms.

Ohh... come on... I've seen it. It goes something like this.

A well regulated militia, being necessary to the security of a free state, the right of the people to keep and bear sporting arms shall not be infringed, unless it is in a politically incorrect area to do so, such as a school or national park.:banghead:

Seriously though, although this does look good for importers, I'm not getting my hopes up until I hear that new form 6's have been approved.
We won't know positively for probably 6 months or so, but it does look promising.:D

[captain obvious]

Wha? This can't be for real.

If it is i'm happy - and a lot closer to having a semi 1919 than would be had the BATFE not sped me along.

[hso]

Don't get all excited yet.

All this means is that they realized that there were some "sporting" rifles, like the California FAL, using import barrels that existed and they had to modify their position to address them. It doesn't help DSA or Dealers Warehouse and it certainly doesn't help the kit importers who were bringing in all the AK, Sten, Suomi, etc. kits with barrels since there are no models of "sporting" arms available to cite.

Also, falsly filling out those forms will insure a federal prosecutor of a successful case against you.

So this doesn't mean jack!:cuss:

[jpIII]

It doesn't help DSA or Dealers Warehouse and it certainly doesn't help the kit importers who were bringing in all the AK, Sten, Suomi, etc. kits with barrels since there are no models of "sporting" arms available to cite.


Correct me if I'm wrong, but isn't the WASR-10 (ak-barrel) a "sporting arm".

I think you are correct about the sten and suomi though. There are no sporting equivalents that I know of.

[hso]

WASR-10? I don't think so. If it ain't Cali legal then you can pretty much kiss it by by.

I think the ATF specifically got onto this because of the AK variants and the AK receiver folders tacking AKs together from flats and parts kits.

This will kill the AK kit crowd and I think that's exactly what it was intended to do.

[fourays2]

Correct me if I'm wrong, but isn't the WASR-10 (ak-barrel) a "sporting arm".

I think you are correct about the sten and suomi though. There are no sporting equivalents that I know of.


actually a closed bolt semi-auto Sten with a permanently welded barrel extension to take it over 16" is a sporting arm, no pistol grip/flash hider/bayo lug/folding stock. Suomi would probably be the same.

[NCP24]

What’s the legal definition of “sporting purposes”?

[Crosshair]

Dumb question, where can a person get recievers for those sten and suomi kits that are available?

[BTR]

Sporting purpose has no legal definition. ATF and the administrations make it up. Currently, all high cap semi auto rifles are declared unsporting.

[NCP24]

Sporting purpose has no legal definition. ATF and the administrations make it up. Currently, all high cap semi auto rifles are declared unsporting.No legal definition? What about court rulings, anything other than the whims of the atf? See this is why I hate discussing firearm laws- illogical to say the least.

[c_yeager]

No legal definition? What about court rulings, anything other than the whims of the atf? See this is why I hate discussing firearm laws- illogical to say the least.

Technically speaking the legal definition of an unsporting firearms is whatever the ATF defines it as. This is how the legislation was passed, the ATF didnt just take it upon themselves, they were given the job through the legislative process. This is a really good example of why we need to keep our lawmakers under very close supervision.

[fourays2]

Dumb question, where can a person get recievers for those sten and suomi kits that are available?

I got my sten semi kit from www.semiautosten.com, I don't know about Suomi kits.

[woerm]

Crosshairs,

You can get kits at gunshows:) and you can find kits on the web:what: .

enter the (species) (kit) and you get tons of listings:D .

I have seen soumi kits at various places you can also check gunsamerica.com
or gunbroker.com subguns.com etc and find kits for sale.

there is a sten9mm yahoo group that once in awhile has kits or various parts.

good luck and good hunting.

r

ps i hope the crew at ftroop has dropped this ban I will check on this w/ my misreptile this week.

r

[NCP24]

This is a really good example of why we need to keep our lawmakers under very close supervision.I agree.

[billwiese]

They've realized there's a ton of people making Sec. 922(r) -compliant guns, esp FAL and AK clones, with some HK-style guns (PTR91, for example).

According to 922(r) -[the Unsoeld Amendment] - you cannot import a 'nonsporting firearm' - or construct one from imported parts, the equivalent of which wouldn't be importable.

However, if firearm has a specific domestic parts count (the '10-or-less' key foreign parts game), then the gun is no longer subject to these limits, and is regarded as a domestic firearm.

This import ban may have been made up by those who didn't realize there's significant, legal activity using these parts to create or repair 922(r)-compliant guns and they perhaps busted a few idiots for making/selling non-922(r) compliant guns and thought this tight interpretation would stop this.

From this recent ATF letter:

ATF recognizes that certain firearm barrels may be used to assemble either an importable or a nonimportable firearm. With this fact in mind, ATF believes that such “dual use” barrels would be eligible for importation into the United States under section 925(d)(3) for commercial purposes, provided prospective importers of such barrels make representations indicating that neither the importer nor subsequent purchasers of the barrels will use the barrels to assemble nonimportable firearms.

So one part of the test is not mere "sporting" use, but rather if the parts can be used in guns in importable form.

I would suggest this rationale is extesible to replacement parts on legal "domestic" guns that are already 922(r) compliant, and whose status wouldn't change if said part were installed.

The resolution to this will probably be a nastygram with all new imported barrels & receivers, warning about 'sporting use' and/or domestic content.




I do hope we'll see some nice new FAL chrome-lined barrels coming in soon... and many folks would like Imbel FAL receivers, too. Both these items can be used to construct/repair legal _domestic_ firearms and even "sporting" firearms.



Bill Wiese
San Jose, CA

[Kurush]

The open letter is now a 404, but their web page still links to it :scrutiny:

[Brad Johnson]

ATF seems to be caught between a rock and a hard place. They can't prevent the barrels coming in, and they can't prevent homebuilders from using them.

'Caught between a rock and a hard place..' my Aunt Annie's fanny! The only place they got "caught" was in a place of their own making, the result of their own idiotic, imbicilice, moronic, and just plain stupid regulations based on their undeciferable interpretations of knee-jerk reactionary legislation.

And did I mention that they are dumbasses sometimes?

Brad

[jpIII]

The open letter is now a 404, but their web page still links to it

You're right, good thing I posted the text before it went down.

Did anyone save a copy of the pdf before it went down? if so, IM me please.

Thanks,

[LAR-15]

What about as replacement parts for imported guns that were declared non sporting?

Like the Steyr USR (banned in 1998) or FN FNC (banned in 1989)?

Basically guns the BATFE declared non sporting that were once sporting and lawfully imported?

[Ravenslair]

Updated link: http://www.atf.treas.gov/firearms/112205openletter.pdf

[billwiese]

I think this will just trigger more "fore replacement use only" notations on parts, along with a copy of 922(r) thrown in.

I'd bet that parts could be imported based on 'replacement' use as well on now-banned-from-import guns.


Bill Wiese
San Jose, CA

[beerslurpy]

How can someone make a representation about a use that a subsequent buyer will make of a part?

[444]

"I think you are correct about the sten and suomi though."

Really ?
Ok, how about this.
I own a full auto Sten.
On the form 4 I filed with the ATF, box 15 states " I ___________________, have a reasonable necessity to possess the machinegun, short-barreled rifle, short barreled shotgun, or destructive device described on this application for the following reason _______________________________
I filled in that second blank with the words: "For Sporting Purposes".
The form 4 was approved and signed by an examiner, approved and signed by the supervisor, stamped, and returned to me.

Now explain to me why a Sten doesn't count.
Furthermore, I am currently having my Sten rebuilt into a Sterling using my registered tube and a Sterling parts kit including the parts kit barrel. The tax stamp still says "For Sporting Purposes", as it should since sporting purposes are exactly what I use my guns for.

[jpIII]

Now explain to me why a Sten doesn't count.

Is the your sten capable of being imported into the country?

Then no, it doesn't count as being sporting regardless of the reason that you put on your form 4.

Don't get me wrong, I don't agree with this whole god aweful mess of a law, but I don't think your rationale would fly.

I'll be quite happy to be proven wrong though.:) Only time will tell for sure.

[The Drew]

What I don't understand is all this talk of assembly of a non importable rifle... Most of these parts kits are turned into rifles that aren't "imported" because they have enough american made parts...

So it isn't an imported rifle, it is an american made rifle using an imported barrel...

92x shouldn't matter in this case... as it is legal to use SOME imported parts on an american built rifle. And clearly a US built AK is legal to manufacture in the US.

[Steamship Trooper]

OK, let me get this straight-

Baseball bat- sporting equipment

Golf club- sporting equipment

Got that so far. Now-

.22 Anshutz biathalon bolt rifle- sporting equipment

.68 cal paintball gun- sporting equipment

(I think anyone but an ATF agent can see where this is going)

Sten gun- Not sporting equipment?

A range I used to go to in San Antonio would rent a H&K MP-5, and let you go through the tactical lane. So, if the pistol competition we would have on the same range was sporting, how could the same lane ran with a submachine gun be "not sporting"?

Of course, the bowling pins weren't shooting back, so I did have SOME advantage :)

Interesting.

[NCP24]

What I don't understand is all this talk of assembly of a non importable rifle... Most of these parts kits are turned into rifles that aren't "imported" because they have enough american made parts...

So it isn't an imported rifle, it is an american made rifle using an imported barrel...

92x shouldn't matter in this case... as it is legal to use SOME imported parts on an american built rifle. And clearly a US built AK is legal to manufacture in the US.You're applying logic – stop now before it's too late.

[jpIII]

Sten gun- Not sporting equipment?

hey,... you're preaching to the quoir buddy. I think they are all "sporting", but I just don't believe the ATF will.

Of course, I also don't think that they should have to be "sporting" to be in the country.

So it isn't an imported rifle, it is an american made rifle using an imported barrel...

correct, it is then legal to use the barrel in an AMERICAN rifle, but to IMPORT that barrel you must show the ATF that it can be used on a gun that qualifies to IMPORTto here, not build here. (there is a difference)

[Gifted]

http://www.thehighroad.org/showthread.php?t=136495
Whatever happened to that anyway?

But this is a good reason to get rid of the sporting purposes clause.