Ethics of GunShows


November 29, 2005, 04:14 PM
OK. I keep reading in American Rifleman and Shooting Times that "The traditional gunshow is under attack by leftists who claim that terrorists are buying machine guns at them".

Here' s my question: do you have to go through a background check to buy guns at gunshows? I've never bought a firearm at one, but I didn't really see the background check resources there.

If, as I suspect, you do not go through a background check, then what is in place to keep people who cannot legally own firearms (felons, minors, etc) from purchasing them at gunshows?

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November 29, 2005, 04:28 PM
At the Washington Arms Collector shows you must be a member to purchase firearms. To be a member of WAC you must have a background check or a current CCW. They will do the background check at the show and issue your badge when you clear. Usually takes less than a 1/2 hour depending on how many they are processing. The rule applies even to parking lot sales. Break the rule and you are out.

November 29, 2005, 04:29 PM
A gunshow is considered as an extension of the business ergo ALL LAWS APPLY.

All transfers from lisensed dealers to buyers MUST be on a 4473

ALL transfers must have either a NICS "approval" number (NTN) or the "optional allowed sustitute" In Nebraska that would be a Firearm certificate, in most states that have CCW, that qualifies them to skip the NICS check.

In short ALL transfors MUST comply with ALL LAWS

NICS is a phone call, or can be run via laptop computer from the show.

Private sales between individuals are NOT subject to NICS checks.

Oh and by the way I dont thinks its EVEN possible to transfer a REAL machine gun at a gunshow, the wait is soo long to make it impractical. Class 3 transfers are whole different animal than a simple 01.

November 29, 2005, 04:30 PM
In Maryland, anybody wishing to make a purchase of a firearm from a dealer must go through a background check. NICS check for a rifle or shotgun, MD State Police check for ANY handgun or "assault rifle".

You may purchase a shotgun or rifle from any individual who is NOT a dealer without a background check.

This is the alleged "gunshow loophole"; private sellers will occaisionally take rifles and shotguns to gunshows to sell or trade with other idividuals.

Machine guns without a background check??? Ahahahahahahahaa!!! That would be the funniest thing I've heard all day if it weren't such a sad, pathetic LIE.

November 29, 2005, 04:30 PM
If the person selling a gun at the show is an FFL, then you do go through the NICS check or have to present a CHL or CCW permit ( depending on some state by state nuances).

A private individual selling a gun offers no check. However, someone selling a gun on the street doesn't either. Some private sellers do ask for ID when selling a gun. Of course, a illegal transaction will be done if someone is a criminal anyway.

About machine guns - you have to be a Class III dealer to sell them and the buyer has to go through hoops. Thus, a deep cover terrorist might pass through all the checks. However, it is just as easy to ship such guns through the Mexican or Canadian borders - or put them in a container. There have been busts of illegal full autos into the US from China.

The organized terrorist does not have to go the show to by a machine gun. That is antigunner BS. The goal of such statements is to shut down all shows and ban all guns eventually.

There is debate that shows should run private sales at that premises through a NICS check for a fee. Have a table that calls it in. Illegal sales at shows (a small number according to research) would just become part of the street sales.

November 29, 2005, 04:31 PM
Actually, you have to go through a NICS check to by any firearm from a licensed dealer unless you have an appropriate carry permit. You fill out the 4473, and the dealer whips out his cellphone to call for the background check. It is no different than buying a gun at a store.

Now, the "gunshow loophole" has to do with private sales. If I sold a gun to my neighbor, there would be no background check involved. Supposedly terrorists go about buying guns at gunshows from private sellers. A gun show, however, is about the last place I'd want to be if I were a terrorist.

November 29, 2005, 04:38 PM
Ohio is probably a poster child for the "gunshow loophole" theory. I'd say that half the tables are Private Collectors, selling pre-owned guns. They may or may not ask you for an I.D., in spite of the fact that they are required to determine your age and state of residence.

November 29, 2005, 04:38 PM
And one more point

Why the heck would a terrorist WANT to come to the US and pay horribly INFLATED prices for a machine gun.

PURE media poppycock, more garbage from people who dont bother to do any homework or take a "fieldtrip" to check it out for themselves.

Sorry if I am coming across as cranky, but this subject really raises my cockles, and I'm not sure what my cockles are but damned if I want em raised!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

November 29, 2005, 04:42 PM
There is no such thing as a "Gun Show Loophole".

If you buy from a dealer, you have to have a background check, period. It does not matter if it is at a gun store or a gun show.

If you buy from an individual, you do not have to have a background check (in most of the free states anyway). It does not matter if it is a gunshow, or wherever.

This is not a loop hole. This is simply following the letter of the law.

November 29, 2005, 05:39 PM
If you are a gun dealer, all applicable state and federal laws apply. Now, most gun shows I have been to, they charge for table space, and really the only people who can afford to have a table and sell firearms are people who are gun dealers, either as a business or as a hobby. In theory, a guy could have a sizable collection of guns, but not be a gun dealer, rent a table, and sell a few. Of course, you sell more than a few, and then you are a gun dealer opperating without a licence!

Now, if Joeseph Walling, whose grandfather just died, takes is grandpa's LC Smith 16 guage and says "I want a Glock like all the rappers have, not some old shotgun! I'll try and sell this to a dealer at the gunshow, then use the money to buy me a Glock!" I can see him walking around and offer to buy it off of him. This is the supposed loophole. Of course, Joseph Walling could just put an add in the newspaper too, and i could see that and buy without a background check, but to stop that would be to infringe on freedom of the press.

Standing Wolf
November 29, 2005, 06:27 PM
If, as I suspect, you do not go through a background check, then what is in place to keep people who cannot legally own firearms (felons, minors, etc) from purchasing them at gunshows?

The laws vary greatly from state to state. Here in Colorado, for example, all sales at gun shows—including parking lots outside shows, proper—must involve so-called "background checks." In some states, sales between non-F.F.L. private parties require no so-called "background checks." In some states, all firearms sales must be conducted through F.F.L.s with so-called "background checks."

Here are a few peculiar facts:

• Very few criminals acquire firearms at gun shows, but purchase stolen firearms on the street, have straw buyers who can pass so-called "background checks" buy them, or simply steal them.
• Even fewer terrorists acquire firearms at gun shows, which isn't at all surprising, since they're much less expensive in other nations.
• Passing so-called "background checks" would be child's play for any criminal who could come up with the $25 to $250 price of fake identification, usually consisting of a driver's license and/or social security card.

The leftist extremists are convinced if they snivel and whine loudly enough long enough, they'll pressure our elected misrepresentatives into closing the so-called "gun show loop hole." Their only interest in so doing is to make it more difficult and expensive for commoners to keep and bear arms. If they were even remotely concerned about violent crime, they'd immediately shut up about gun shows and advocate attacking the root cause of violent crime: criminals.

Goebbels would be so proud of them!

November 29, 2005, 08:53 PM
I saw a few terrorist at the last gun show trying to trade plastic explosives for a used SKS. The dealer told them that he could get explosives for less than that at wholesale, and that the SKS was worth much more than the $500 he was asking, as it was a rare Romanian type. They walked away muttering something about his mother and a sheep. Last I saw of them, they had an armload of Jerky and some of those Osama targets.

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