Ever wonder how easy/hard it would be to shoot a padlock to get it open? Read this!


PDA






Rockrivr1
December 1, 2005, 09:24 AM
I got this link from an IPSCA list I'm on. Very interesting and it has pics of the results.

http://www.theboxotruth.com/docs/bot5.htm

It's not as easy as one might think.

If you enjoyed reading about "Ever wonder how easy/hard it would be to shoot a padlock to get it open? Read this!" here in TheHighRoad.org archive, you'll LOVE our community. Come join TheHighRoad.org today for the full version!
Mr_Moore
December 1, 2005, 09:45 AM
It was pretty cool.

Double Maduro
December 1, 2005, 11:54 AM
Everybody knows you don't shoot the lock, you shoot what the lock is attached too. Or you shoot the wood around the eyebolts. The lock is the strongest part.

DM

molonlabe
December 1, 2005, 12:04 PM
When I win the lotto, I'm doing what he does....

Darth Ruger
December 1, 2005, 12:48 PM
Everybody knows you don't shoot the lock, you shoot what the lock is attached too.I use a key. :D

f4t9r
December 1, 2005, 08:17 PM
I have tried that , its fun to shoot at

Texas9
December 1, 2005, 08:21 PM
That's just too cool. I need to retire, too!

Highland Ranger
December 1, 2005, 08:24 PM
Interesting - looks like energy rules . . .

scubie02
December 1, 2005, 08:35 PM
hmm, I dunno, I remember when I was a kid we shot a few master locks because of those adds they used to do. I don't remember what we shot them with, but I believe the rifle I had at the time was a marlin 336 in 35 rem, and my brother probably had his 30-30. The locks blew apart easily, and we were fairly unimpressed, as I recall, assuming the adds were just bs. Maybe the 35 remington is just the magic bullet or something...:scrutiny:

drannor
December 1, 2005, 11:31 PM
After a two hour drive into the country to do some shooting my friend realized she had forgotten the combination to the lock on her family's trail gate. The gate was secured to a wooden post via a linked metal chain and a series of combination and pad locks. (Big family!) .45 Ball out of my Kimber Goldmatch dented the lock casing and the bolt popped open. (Master brand dial combination lock)

Have to admit it was a good feeling after being tormented by those @!#!@ things on lockers throughout Junior High and Highschool. :evil:

ocmechanx
December 1, 2005, 11:45 PM
This could be the next tanerite test:cool:


BC

ny32182
December 2, 2005, 12:26 PM
I shot a Master combination lock with a 16" Bushy once [from the back]... clean entrance hole in the rear plate, the dail was blown off the front, and there was a messier exit hole in the front plate under where the dial had been. Additionally, the bottom part of the shackle had been hit internally, so the lock opened by hand afterward. I couldn't find any jacket fragments or anything else that looked like pieces of bullet inside the lock, and I never found the dial.

Creeping Incrementalism
December 2, 2005, 10:05 PM
I took a plain-vanilla dial-combo Masterlock that I had forgotton the combo to out into the woods once and blasted it with .22 LR from a rifle from about 15 feet. It took about a dozen hits before I could get the thing open, and by then it was really blown to smithereens.

Highland Ranger
December 2, 2005, 10:21 PM
There is a difference between a master padlock (or clone like what was shot in the link) and a master combination lock.

In my mispent youth, we used to take a desk chair (high school) and use the metal leg to wack it right on the dial - popped open every time.

Padlock like what is shown is much tougher . . . . .

GRB
December 3, 2005, 02:20 AM
If you have a key, fine use it; otherwise use a three foot long pair of bolt cutters with a strong pair of arms attached to them. Then again, if you shoot at a lock trying to bust it open - don't make the same mistake these gentlemen made. You can get some locks to open on the first shot, but not the way they were shooting. It is possible they could have opened each lock with one shot with any of the rifle ammo. Has anyone guessed their possible mistake?

Czar
December 3, 2005, 04:31 AM
It is possible they could have opened each lock with one shot with any of the rifle ammo. Has anyone guessed their possible mistake?

Either
1:
Shoot the hasp (break it, not the lock)

2:
Shoot the body of the lock from the top. (Overload the pin securing the hasp in the locked position)

3:
Shoot the body of the lock from the side. (Dislodge the hasp)

4:
Bring a dremmel with a carbide side-cutting bit



I would be more surprised than not if more of the pistol ammo wound't have worked with shots as I've described. Then again, I've been wrong before.

GRB
December 3, 2005, 10:42 AM
Close enough answer, part of it anyhow, to win the nickel cigar for Czar. They shot the lock dead center or pretty close to dead center. The problem with that is the bullets are likely hitting only the lock cylinder and not the actual mechanism, often a type of elongated bearing or a simple ball bearing or pair of them, that catches the indent(s) in the shackle. Therefore the bullet is smashing up the device that allows the lock to be locked or unlocked keeping yet the actual locking mechanism, those bearings, stay in place in the indent of the shackle. In fact it is possible the bullet would cause a forcing of it even more into a locked position because when you make the bullet hole, the bullet bullet/hole displaces material outward from its own center, that material pushes more on the ball bearing - the locking mechanism - which is being pushed more toward the indent in the shackle.

If you shoot the lock more toward the side and near where the shackle enters the body of the lock, you have more of a chance of shooting it open because you are much more likely to shoot out, or displace, the bearing. Of course, it would be best to know on which side the shackle is shorter (the side which pops out when you open the lock with a key). If you shoot out the retaining mechanism of the shackle (the bearing), there is a good chance the lock will open.

You could also aim at horizontal center but somewhat higher on the vertical line on some locks and possibly shoot them open. You would be hoping to hit the cam (or actuator) that turns and forces the retaining mechanism out toward the bolt and, that is released when you open the lock with a key. If you knock it out, voila, the lock will probably open or be so weakened that it will be easy to otherwise open.

I am not saying this will work all the time, especially with just one shot but, there is much more a chance of shooting open a lock if you shoot it as described.

Shooting the lock through the center (or through the key cylinder) is an old trick that was used by Master Lock many years ago on television commercials for one of their more inexpensive locks. They wanted to show how tough it was. If I recall correctly, that was a model of lock in which the shackle (upside down U bolt) did not even have an indent on it. (see the diagram - the indents on the shackle in this diagram were missing on the lock that Master Lock shot through yet it remained locked) That lock somehow clicked locked but was extremely easy to open if you used the right type of lever between the bolt and the lock body and then applied fairly little pressure - the lock would pop right open. Yet, you could shoot bullets through the middle of those locks all day long and they would not open simply because you were not hitting anything inside the lock that would make it open. Thius was demonstrated to me in some class I took many years ago either at an academy or in college (can you imagine something like that in college - John Jay College of Criminal Justice when justice still meant putting em behind bars).

There is a good picture of a padlock components at this site http://keying.masterlock.com/pdf/7000-0031_Tech%20Manual_7-05.pdf (PDF format so you will need Adobe Reader). It is a fair representation of the most common types of padlocks (the second lock that is pictured not the first one). If you give it a good look you will see that when shooting just dead center, you are probably hitting the key cylinder.

Of course, as was described in that article, use of a 12 gauge slug makes this whole discussion academic!

As a warning, I do not recommend shooting locks because of possible ricochets, shrapnel and other splatter. I especially do not recommend shooting metal on metal at a range of, what was it, only 15 feet. That is outright negligent. Ten to fifteen yards would be much safer, and from a rest you would probably be able to hit the lock just as if at 15 feet. Even at the extended distance you can get hit by splatter or by sharp pieces of jacketing; I have been cut when shooting at steel plates from that farther distance.

Good luck experimenting if you choose to do so. Make sure to wear a really good set of eye protection and then wear goggles over that.


All the best,
GB

Feanaro
December 3, 2005, 11:22 AM
A number of people are saying the Box 'o Truth fellow made a mistake in how he shot the lock. They might want to read the bottom of the page.

I am often asked the question: "Don't you know that the way you shot the locks is not the "best" way to break a lock?"

Answer: Of course I do. I was not trying to determine the "best" way to break a lock. To do that, the shooter should either shoot down onto the top of the lock body, or shoot the hasp itself.

What I was doing was testing the way locks are often shot in movies and TV shows to see if that would actually break or open the lock.

rustymaggot
December 3, 2005, 11:34 AM
my dad used to tell me that the safest way to shoot off locks was to use a toilet plunger with the rifle. remove the stick and cut a hole on the center of the rubber cup. put the cup on the end of your rifle and press that against the lock. the rubber keeps most of the scrapnel from hitting you.

my dad was a bad kid and he used to rob soda machines this way. shot the locks right apart.

Ziryo
December 3, 2005, 11:44 AM
If you have a key, fine use it; otherwise use a three foot long pair of bolt cutters with a strong pair of arms attached to them.

When I was in firefighter class we were taught to never open a lock with a pair of bolt cutters; on a..ermm...case hardened (I believe) lock they tended to damage if not break or destroy a set of bolt cutters.

At the end of the year someone had forgotten the combination to their lock so our instructor sent a few of us to open it. The general consensus (I wasn't part of the group; I just went to watch) was to use the pair of bolt cutters.

The bolt cutters were subsequently damaged and a fragment from it ricocheted around the room, but luckily no one was injured. The lock later removed with an oxygen-acetylone torch.

newfalguy101
December 3, 2005, 11:55 AM
I could be wrong but if the locks are against something to keep them from swinging when hit I think the results would be quite different.

I suspect that even a 9mm would destroy a lock that was on a door in the traditional manner, ergo hanging down but with a door/wall directly behind it.

The way the experiment was run, the locks swing and the majority of bullet energy is lost.

I will have to get some locks and shoot em one of these days just to prove or disprove my theory :D

GRB
December 3, 2005, 09:07 PM
When I was in firefighter class we were taught to never open a lock with a pair of bolt cutters; on a..ermm...case hardened (I believe) lock they tended to damage if not break or destroy a set of bolt cutters.I worked for US Customs for 20 years, bolt cutters opened alomst every lock we ever applied them to including the ones claiming to be hardened against such things. You just need the right bolt cutters. We had one pair, if I recall correctly where the handles were about 3 1/2 to 4 feet long and they had extremely hard blades. Of course you had to be superman to wield them (usually a two person op, one operating them and one hold them in place), but they worked. They may not work for every lock but there were very, very few that did not get cut.

At the end of the year someone had forgotten the combination to their lock so our instructor sent a few of us to open it. The general consensus (I wasn't part of the group; I just went to watch) was to use the pair of bolt cutters.

The bolt cutters were subsequently damaged and a fragment from it ricocheted around the room, but luckily no one was injured. The lock later removed with an oxygen-acetylone torch.Buy cheap stuff and get such results. For you to have had a piece of a bolt cutter blade ricochet around the room must mean that the metal of the blade was not hardened correctly to be brittle enough to have a piece fly off and ricochet around the room. You must also have had an awful lot of pressure on the blades to have been able to achieve that. That is why I don't get in fist fights with firemen.

GoBrush
December 3, 2005, 09:13 PM
Wow that was cool:cool: Thanks
The Cop I took some special CCW training from said that Swat guys use a special 12ga ceramic round for entry and they blow locks, door knobs, deadbolts clean off.

GRB
December 3, 2005, 09:33 PM
Answer: Of course I do. I was not trying to determine the "best" way to break a lock. To do that, the shooter should either shoot down onto the top of the lock body, or shoot the hasp itself.That is not a practical way, nor the best way, to shoot a lock if you are at all concerned about your own safety. To shoot down the top of a olck means you are basically right over it otherwise the shackle poses a problem of being in the way requiring an angled shot from a distance. Most locks hang vertically and there is no access to a point a safe distance above them from which to shoot at the proper angle. Shooting to the side of the lock face to displace the locking mechanism (the bearing) is a practical way to attempt shooting open a lock when shooting a lock the way you would normally find it and, still maintain a level of safety for the shooter.

Shooting the hasp is not shooting the lock - so shooting the hasp is not the "best way to shoot a lock". A hasp is not part of a padlock but part of the hardware that is attached to the item being secured such as a door, a foot locker etc... Shooting a hasp may get the secured item open, but some hasps are made of stronger metal than the locks that secure them. Since the whole discussion was about shooting locks, I would think they may want to try to figure a better way than dead center, or from above at extremely close range (rememebr that from above the shackle poses an obstrction/angled shot problem for the shooter unless at point blank range and point blank range poses an injury risk that is quite high).


As for myself, I still prefer bolt cutters. If they do not work, then there are many other methods to open items secured by a padlock. There is a hydraulic tool that spreads apart when placed between the shackle and top of the lock body, guaranteed to pull apart any padlock. In addition if you are just concerned about getting into whatever the lock is securing, the actual door, locker, box (whatever) usually is weaker than the lock/hasp combination and that makes for an easier way in. If you are considering shooting at a lock my guess would be you are not too concerned about the container that is secured by the lock and, you probably are not to concerned about the contents of the container. Regardless shooting a lock open could be an interesting experiment if done with absolute attention to proper safety procedures.

stevelyn
December 4, 2005, 08:52 AM
Keep it safe and simple. If you need to take off a lock, bolt cutters or a Hooligan tool will take it apart. If you really want to be efficient, a grinder will take one off in less than thirty seconds.

HI express
December 4, 2005, 10:32 AM
Hey Rockrivr1,
Way cool.
Reminds me of the time that I was on this task force warrant service. The concern with the whole task force team as we were standing outside of the suspect's house surveilling the house was how would the police breach the secured and locked door. This was early a.m. dark and the suspected perps were still catching their beauty sleep.

The Lt. called the Fire Captain whose people had to open doors all the time. He asked the Fire Captain if he had a special tool or something and the Fire Captain said that he would bring his "Universal Door Opener." Shortly the Fire Captain arrived in his car and he took one look at the door and called to an individual in his car.."Bring the Universal Door Opener."-"Bear!"

One of the guy's sitting in the car came out of the car and kept coming and coming... he was one of the biggest guys I have ever seen. "Bear" was his nickname and he just brought out a sledge hammer walked up to the door, hit it twice and walked away as the entry team entered and secured the house.

The Fire Captain turned to the guys and said proudly, "My Universal Door Opener." "Thanks Bear.":p

If you enjoyed reading about "Ever wonder how easy/hard it would be to shoot a padlock to get it open? Read this!" here in TheHighRoad.org archive, you'll LOVE our community. Come join TheHighRoad.org today for the full version!