[bad_dad_brad]

That there are 100,000 Iraqi combat deaths in this latest war. The coalition has suffered less than 100 dead. I know I should not feel morally repugnant, but I do. The average dumb Iraqi soldier is not evil. He is not Saddam. He has a wife and kids at home. Sigh! War - as the old soul group once sang - is good for nuthin.

What we need is that famed race of robots, Gort and company, to keep the peace. Klatu, berada, nikto. (Isperanto for Klatu, shut down buddy.)

A very depressing news item. Iraqi soldiers in busses, with AK's, against modern armor. I mean, jeesssus. You really have to hate those in power which send such troops into battle. I just don't get it.

http://www.cnn.com/2003/WORLD/meast/04/03/sprj.irq.war.main/index.html

[AR-10]

Perhaps you would feel better if they were gassing our troups.

[AnklePocket]

In business people often say, "It's business - nothing personal.".
In war one can say, "It's war - nothing personal." and then say a prayer for them and their families.

[Don Gwinn]

Is it now treason to regret the deaths of one hundred thousand conscripts? My, how far we've come. And of course, he didn't say--or imply--that he would prefer our troops be hurt instead, so that must be what he meant, right?

Or is it possible he feels bad that a hundred thousand people died for no very good reason?

[Drizzt]

It's still better than the way we eliminated somany of them last time around. Just went through with armored bulldozers and covered up the trenches, with the Iraqis still in them....

[Waitone]

Problem with war is those who are the cause are not the ones to die.

Always has been, always will be.

Ugly, sad, disturbing, disgusting, etc. But that's the inconvenient reality.

The good news is the US has the technology and the will to do everthing humanly possible to minimize unnecessary killing. Rejoice in that you are a citizen of a country willing and able to kill only what is necessary.

[cratz2]

It is unfortunate, but then I'd be willing to bet a large percentage of those 100,000 would have been glad to makes widows of our marine's wives.

[RustyHammer]

They can count 100,000 bodies but can't find the one of "So Damn Insane"? Sort of ironic ...

[BamBam]

I sure understand how all the killing seems sensless.
All I can offer is that with our modern GPS-guided weapons, etc., there are tens of thousands of lifes being spared compared to wars of the past....so I feel that we're making progress.

Also, it's a "greater-good" issue:
Will more lives be ultimately saved by stopping Saddam or by not stopping him?
I believe that 100,000 lives now outweigh what would be lost if he is not stopped.

[answerguy]

War - as the old soul group once sang - is good for nuthin.

Ironically the singer of that song, Edwin Starr, died yesterday April 3rd.

[Ol' Badger]

100,000 dead Iraq's you say. Bummer man. Well whens lunch, I'm starved. :D

[geegee]

Of the 100,000 dead, and who knows how many more that are living (or have lived) under Saddam's rule, couldn't any of them figure out a way to assassinate the guy? :confused: There was a near successful attempt on Hitler's life-could the consequences have been any greater for those responsible for that plot?

I'm sure Saddam made getting close to him difficult, but how did he get so far, for so long? The punishment for American colonists conspiring against the British was still death, and yet some brave souls decided that that fate was worth the effort. Freedom was going to come at a huge cost, but some were willing to pay it.

We're now finding out that it was an Iraqi lawyer that walked six miles to report he had seen Jessica Lynch in a hospital, then helped draw up maps for our operators to rescue her. Why hasn't any Iraqi soldier (at any rank) displayed that level of bravery and tried to assassinate Saddam?

I agree that those in the Iraqi military were woefully outmatched by American forces, but who cares? Dollars to donuts, many of those killed would have gladly tortured, raped, and killed many women and others who could offer no resistance to their overwhelming force. I'll also bet that of those killed, there were some very decent Iraqi's who just were in the wrong place at the wrong time, much like the folks in the WTC on 9-11. The major difference with our society and theirs, is there won't be demonstrations in the street, showing Americans cheering when the deaths of Iraqi's are reported. geegee

[srschick]

I read through your link and saw nothing about the report.
But that could just be that the link is continuously being updated and that part has been removed.

I wonder who gave that number?

I am not in Iraq, not an active member of the military (did 8 years of active in the Marines though), nor do I kow any higher ranking official in the military or government.
But I'll tell you this, one hundred thousand is a WHOLE lot of killing. I doubt if the Iraq military (I use that term loosely) even has that many members. And don't forget the many Iraqis that have surrendered already.

If I had to make a guess, it would have to be closer to 10,000 rather than 100,000.
Maybe they meant killed and wounded?

That would be my educated guess.
I've been wrong before, and will be again.
Just think about the numbers though.

[Waitone]

Col. David Hunt of the FOX News channel said on a broadcast 2 days ago the US 3rd army and Marines destroyed 2 Iraqi divisions in a matter of 3 hours. He said he received an email from a soldier in the Army who was tasked with cleaning up the battlefield. The email said US forces killed 10,000 Iraqi's in busting up 2 divisions.

10,000 I believe, 100,000 I don't believe.

[OF]

Rejoice in that you are a citizen of a country willing and able to kill only what is necessary.Amen. Absolutely revolutionary. A new chapter has opened. I cannot begin to explain how important I think this development is.

- Gabe

[Blackhawk]

Surprised that the lament of our using 2 bombs to vaporize so many Japanese in August 1945 hasn't been heard.

It's folly to project the mores and compassion of people at peace onto soldiers in war. They're in a world of "kill or be killed" that they would NOT be in during peace. If they encounter somebody equipped and appearing as an "enemy" soldier, the killing response is almost instinctive and automatic. Don't worry about it because they would do the same to you if you give them a chance.

As has been said, you can be eternally grateful that you live in a country that does not automatically desecrate enemy dead or torture enemy living. Having a cultural respect for all life, past or present, is way too close to unique on this earth for my taste.

My compassion for the Iraqi soldiers is because they're just ignorant young men whipped up into a patriotic fervor to defend their country against invaders. They haven't got a clue about what's involved or what they're supporting with their lives.

But, have soldiers ever been any different...?

[Coronach]

Problem with war is those who are the cause are not the ones to die.Hitler bought his own plot of earth (well...there's disagreement on where it is, exactly), and its possible that this time Saddam hussein just might as well.

FWIW, I think its terrible that we have to pound the Iraqi conscripts and (some) civilians, but until we develop some better technique, it is how it is done. If I ever have to drop the hammer on someone in self defense, I'll probably feel the same way. Sucks to be you...'cause if its you or me, I'm the one walking away from this. Sorry, adieu. Nothing personal.

Mike

[Selfdfenz]

100,000 killed.
Foolishness!

That is more troops that we have faced in the field let alone killed.
I'm not buying the 10,000 KIA either. Too high, "projected" KIA at best.

The media has supplied us with every kind of number imaginable in the course of this war. Our miliatry is supplyig them with some of this intel and that is a projection too. I'll remind everyone here that talk is cheap and the media has a rep for reporting all kinds of funny numbers. We are "in" the battle so any numbers we will get are shrouded in the cloud of war and battle.

As for the "Iraqis were buried in the last war".
The projections during the fighing were in the tens of thousands I believe.
PBS (NOVA I believe) has a series on the last war. Multi-part.
I don't like or believe much that I see on PBS but that show debunked those numbers pretty well.


S-

[moa]

Iraq is very big and dynamic battlefield. There is no way anybody can determine what the Iraqi casualties are. No one is even sure how many casualties they had from the Gulf War in '91.

[jmbg29]

Lamenting the death of fellow human beings isn't wrong, but seeming to forget that they are human beings with the choice that free will brings, is.

They have the choice of turning those weapons on those that conscripted them. They are men with free will.

A handful of farmers and tradesmen once faced down the most powerful empire on Earth in an act of rebellion. WE are their legacy; for those of you that have forgotten.

I'll say it again. A handful of farmers and tradesmen decided that it was better to risk dying on one's feet, rather than die on one's knees.

The barbarian hordes that infest that kitty-litter tray of a country, have been around longer than just about any other horde on Earth. Time for them to invest in a :cuss: :cuss:ing CLUE!!!!

If not, not. *** do I care? :cuss: them. They can just bend over and kiss their :cuss: goodbye!

[Leatherneck]

They're in a world of "kill or be killed" that they would NOT be in during peace. If they encounter somebody equipped and appearing as an "enemy" soldier, the killing response is almost instinctive and automatic.
You got it, Blackhawk. The young Marine I quote in this thread is a calm, centered, jocular guy you'd like as a neighbor. His after-action report brings to mind a born killer lusting for blood. Different world you can't understand without trying it. http://www.thehighroad.org/showthread.php?s=&threadid=16923

TC
TFL Survivor

[Don Gwinn]

Sigh. Did anyone read the first post? I see lots of refutations of things he didn't say. Blaming soldiers? Blaming U.S. troops? Where did any of that come from?

[4v50 Gary]

I'm sure many of the Iraqis don't want to die for Saddam. However, as I suspect Saddam models Iraq after Stalinist Russia and his secret police stand ready to shoot down any deserter or coward. Fear is Saddam's biggest tool for holding his people in line. If the Iraqis can figure out ways to surrender en masse, they would.

[Blackhawk]

Different world you can't understand without trying it.Exactly, Leatherneck.

And I can add that if you haven't tried it, you should just accept the fact that you can't understand it (nor do you want to try it) along with many other things you can't understand. For example, a man can't understand what it's like to bear a child any more than a woman can understand what their gender prohibits them from experiencing.

[Lord Grey Boots]

I've seen the 100,000 number mentioned before as well, apparently its a CIA estimate.

Note however, a lot were loyal to Saddam Republican Guard, Fedayeen and other security forces.

Of course many were forced conscripts as well. However, it seems that a lot of conscripts are either surrendering, going home, or otherwise refusing to fight.

Feel Guilty? Well, thats why war is a bad thing and is only a last resort, as it was in this case.

I keep thinking of General Patton's comments about not dying for your country, but making the other guy die for his.

[moa]

Was it Napoleon I who said that it is a good thing that war is so terrible, otherwise we would grow to fond of it?

Maybe it was Gen. Robert E. Lee. Oh, well.

[Khornet]

it was General Lee.

Brad, it's indeed a shame that all this is going on. And maybe it's possible that it's some kind of failure on our part that it's gotten this far--that is, I can see how one might argue that, though I think it's badly wrong--but I have no doubt at all that what we're doing right now is the right thing.

Nobody's saying we have to LIKE it. We just have to do the right thing.

And don't give up on God, brother. How often do we think some event is tragic and unfair, onlt to find out later that we didn't have anywhere near enough dta to judge? Think of the toddler taken to the Doc by his mom, who then pins him down so the guy in the white coat can stick a needle in him. No way the little guy can see how that could be the act of a loving mother; he just doesn't have the equipment for it. Only when he's 20, and realizes that he didn't die of whooping cough like some others did, will he understand.

So with us. We're navigating blind, really. But since we're blind, nothing that happens in this world can disprove God.

Yes, millions were roasted by Hitler. But also, millions of young folks who had everything to lose laid their lives on the line to save a bunch of strangers. Chin up.

[Russ]

Every year, about 45,000 people in the U.S. die in car accidents. I don't hear a big howl and cry about that. 100,000 Iraqi's would have been murdered by Saddam if not killed in a war.