[bad_dad_brad]

Those Iraqi's are really taking a beating. I heard on the news today that there are over 100,000 Iraqi combat deaths in this latest foray of ours. I can't help but think, every one, is a son, a brother, a husband, and a father. That makes me wonder sometimes, what have we wrought? How would I feel if some monstrous unknown outside force killed one of my boys? Would I ever forget, would I ever forgive? Does the average Iraqi or American have a clue? - No! You can replace food and supplies with money, but tell me how can you replace a cherished loved one without some kind of understanding? I hate war (I just die looking at pictures of little girls, young men, ours too, being hurt, being killed, because of war). Just look at this, Iraqi soldiers in busses, against modern armor. A slaughter. There is no God. There can't be.

http://www.cnn.com/2003/WORLD/meast/04/03/sprj.irq.war.main/index.html

We, as a country, have a lot of fence mending to do in this world. This war has just begun. Decades and billions of dollars (your dollars by the way) are in the making to repair the damages. You know, this is not quite like Germany or Japan in World War II, although the situation is somewhat similar. But then, we had a clear moral ground to stand on, the "Studs Terkel - The Just War", and all of that crap. But where are our Nuremberg judges now? Where are they now? Made up, in phantom weapons of mass destruction. Saddam is a piker compared to Hitler or Stalin. He is just an amateur killer. We are the real killers, the Professionals, in this war, which is, get a clue American public and the world, all about oil.

[AR-10]

You could not possibly be more wrong, other than the first sentence you typed.

[Smoke]

You are so far off base it is mind boggling.

Search THR for similar posts. Read a newspaper. Watch TV. Get informed. It is not about oil. That is the most idiotic thing I've heard and seems to be the common thread of the un-informed.

Study oil prices around the first Gulf War and see if you still think that was or this is about oil.

[tech]

I would have to surmise anyone opposed to this war must be Pro rape, torture, and genoncide......

Go Troops, and may God protect you.

Mike

[Bruce in West Oz]

Hey! Back off you guys!!

He's right in one thing --- this is going to cost you billions of dollars. What? You think you could go to war and just walk away when it's over???? Get real. You will pay ... and pay ... and pay. No, it won't be what you want -- your politicians will make the decisions for you!!!!

Apart from that --- the rest of the post is full of *****!!

[tech]

Bruce,

You are right this will cost us dearly. I am glad that we put our beleif in right and wrong, and our desire to further protect our country from terrorist incidents in front of our pocketbooks. Anyway being in debt seems the American Way. I think we all have the right to our own beleifs and the right to voice them. Now however while our troops are fighting and dying to free a people from proven tyrany is the time to stand united. We can analyze ourselves to death when this whole thing is over.

Mike

[Khornet]

there have been many in Iraq saying to themselves that there is no Allah, because so many of their loved ones have been tortured and executed by Saddam while the rest of the world stood by. And there are some now saying He is there, after all, because a few nations have been willing to spill their blood and treasure to end the regime.

The Good Lord's a pretty smart guy. I'll just trust Him.

Where are our Nuremberg judges now? Easy. They've all turned chicken. They've all set material matters over right and wrong. You always lose friend when they want to appease and you want to stand up. Too bad. As Margaret Thatcher used to quote Churchill:

"Never apologize. Never explain. Get it done, and let them howl."

[Leatherneck]

That's a pretty narrow point of view, Brad. Sure there's a very bad side to combat: good people die and lives on both sides are changed forever. Just like fire, flood, famine, epidemic, and all the other bad things in the world since times forgotten. If you allow yourself to think of the benefits of this particular war for the Iraqi people, the American people, and indeed the world, you might see that the benefits potentially outlast the downside by a long shot. There's no way to restore lost lives, obviously; but perhaps God takes a longer view than just some temporal lives that are, after all, only the blink of an eye in history.

TC
TFL Survivor

[Matt249SAW]

brad,

I'm sorry you feel that way.
I wonder what has brought such strong hate for you troops and country to bear.

well, meybe that was the wrong choice of words.

I wonder what brought your strong hate to the freedom of an oppressed people to bear.

no not that either, oh I got it....

I wonder what pushed you into a position that there is no place, time or reason for war. (that's it)...

Maybe you lost a loved one in the line of duty, or feel the pain from someone close to you who lost a loved one, for that I am truely sorry. I hope you you could find comfort (if the latter is true) in knowing that they died for the freedoms that those in Iraq have never known.

Now as for that thing about god... I think that a Family in W VA would greatly dissagree with you. Their Prayers have been answered. Now true there are some who will not come home alive. There are those whose Prayers will not be answered in the way they want them to be answered, but, God is pressent. He does exist and is with you today sir.

matt

[whoami]

I can't help but think, every one, is a son, a brother, a husband, and a father. That makes me wonder sometimes, what have we wrought?

Ah....so not a single Iraqi soldier has any culpability whatsoever? I can't accept such blanket statements. Even the Iraqi soldier who takes a tire iron, or battery leads to a poor Iraqi citizen is a son, or a brother, or a husband, or a father. Personally, I can't find it in my heart to weep for them. We've also been giving them just about every POSSIBLE chance to surrender...and it seems like many have done so.

We, as a country, have a lot of fence mending to do in this world. This war has just begun. Decades and billions of dollars (your dollars by the way) are in the making to repair the damages.

I don't think you'll find anyone who would argue this. I also don't think you'll find very many people not willing to bear the cost.

You know, this is not quite like Germany or Japan in World War II, although the situation is somewhat similar. But then, we had a clear moral ground to stand on, the "Studs Terkel - The Just War", and all of that crap.

And you are saying we don't have a clear moral ground to stand on in this conflict? From what perspective? The most often cited reason this is not a just war, or a moral war, is that we lack international (ie UN) authority. I can understand the viewpoint, but of all the possible criteria, the UN would be in my opinion the LAST authority on anything involving 'just' and 'moral' (Iraq as head of disarmament, Syria in charge of human rights?). Of course, it's easy to make that kind of argument to people like us on this board. Much harder to make that argument to the people out there who have suffered under the Hussein regime. To the people who REALLY matter in this conflict, it's as just a war as you can find in this day and age.

But where are our Nuremberg judges now? Where are they now? Made up, in phantom weapons of mass destruction.

http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,83170,00.html

I'm guessing by your comment you believe that we have just stumbled upon Saddam's personal stash of crack? :D

I find this humorous, as I've had a lot of people explaining to me that 'oh...we haven't found anything, so we must have been lying about them'. It just so happens that our military forces are not perfect. They're fighting a war......the real hunt for WMD's has not even begun yet. You don't go hunting chemical weapons in the middle of a firefight, and you sure as hell don't have the time to hunt for chemical weapons when you're in the middle of trying to secure a hunk of land the size of california!

Saddam is a piker compared to Hitler or Stalin. He is just an amateur killer. We are the real killers, the Professionals, in this war, which is, get a clue American public and the world, all about oil.

Well, Hitler in 39 was a 'piker' compared to the Hitler of '42. I'm sure there are a number of people (many of whom are long in their graves) who would much have prefered someone stand up to him back then.

I'm not going to bother with the 'all about oil' tripe, as that's been ripped apart on this board ad nauseam. But.....we are the killers? Last I recall there have been no instances of rape, torture, or the intentional mass execution of innocent civilians. Perhaps you ought to turn the 'perspective lens' upon the other side....just for the record.

[H Romberg]

You know folks, I have to agree with the first paragraph. It's why war sucks as much as it does, and why it's something to be avoided whenever you can avoid it. On the other hand, even with all the deaths and destruction, it's sometimes the best of crappy alternatives. I think this is one of those cases, and that the world will be a better place for it.

It is doubly unfortunate that the Frogs, the Germans, and some of our own press conspired with Saddam to create the impression we wouldn't follow through. As a result, Saddam's regime has been able to coerce his people to far stiffer resistance than would other wise have been encountered. They bear the blame for a large share of the deaths in this war, though they'll never admit it.

As for the re-building costs, they will (hopefully) be made good from the sale of Iraq's own oil. Iraq is a very rich nation, and with a proper government, the Iraqis should be able to recover from this and be better off than before.

[Bulldozer]

Maybe, just maybe, if we had not listened to the technocrats in the UN back in the First Gulf War and sent Schwartzkopf to Baghdad, there would be almost 200,000 more Kurdish and Shi'ite people who would be breathing now, not rotting in the desert sands. I wonder what their opinion would be? And the 250,000 troops presently occupied cleaning up Iraq would be productively handling other tasks.

I see this war as long unfinished business.

[seeker_two]

Each of those 100,000 soldiers had free will...

Each of those 100,000 soldiers had a choice...

Each of those 100,000 soldiers could have surrendered to the US...

Each of those 100,000 soldiers could have moved against Saddam & his evil regieme...

Each of those 100,000 soldiers could have made a positive difference...

Each of those 100,000 soldiers didn't...

...and that's why they died.

War is full of tragedy...most of that from the choices one makes.

[SemperFi83]

"If I must choose between peace and righteousness, I choose righteousness." - Theodore Roosevelt

"War is an ugly thing, but not the ugliest of things; the decayed and degraded state of moral and patriotic feeling which thinks that nothing is worth war is much worse. A man who has nothing for which he is willing to fight, nothing he cares about more than his own personal safety, is a miserable creature who has no chance of being free, unless made and kept so by the exertions of better men than himself." -- John Stuart Mill