[SecuritySixShooter]

What is the Liability for having a CCW. The reason i ask is that i want to be absolutely clear on what i am getting myself into with the whole CCW thing. I have a class im signed up for tomorrow so any quick responses (tonight or so) would be appreciated.

Josh

PS I live into KY.

[ny32182]

Not sure exactly what you mean, but any specific questions would probably be best directed at your CCW instructor, or an in state lawyer.

[pax]

Getting the CCW shows that you're a responsible person (not going to break the law & carry anyway), that you aren't afraid of background checks etc. No legal downside that I've ever heard of.

But if you're really concerned about liability, sign up for some extra training over & above what your state law requires for CCW permits.

Extra training will

1) make you a safer, better shooter, who is less likely to shoot an innocent by accident or to make the wrong decisions under stress, and

2) make you look better if you end up in court. After all, you paid money out of your own pocket to learn how to reduce the risk of hitting an innocent or making the wrong decision under stress.

Plus, if you are in a shooting, anything you learned in class can become admissible -- which allows you to easily educate a jury about deadly force issues. If you haven't taken extra training, it can be a lot more difficult for you & your lawyer to educate your jury.

pax

[ShackleMeNot]

There is very little liability in only shooting people who need to be shot.

[SecuritySixShooter]

I think getting some extra training would be a great idea. Just getting some preclass jitters i guess.

[SecuritySixShooter]

Does anyone know if you have to qualify on a Semiauto to carry a semauto? Can i qualify in Kentucky with a Revolver and then carry a semiauto (havent had much practice time with my XD9 in the past month due to it being at Springfield Armory). I am currently on Packing.org trying to determine this. Thanks

[GoBrush]

You really need to check out your states laws when Utah became a shall issue state it had some dumb thing about checking a box on the application auto or wheel gun or both. Thankfully that part of the law was removed and you can carry whatever as long as you meet all requirments. Check out your states law your instructor will know.

As far as getting nervous that is a good thing I feel much safer with people starting a CCW class being nervous it means you are teachable and that you will better pay attention to your instructor. This is serious business and if you dont work out many issues in your mind before you go out with your CCW you have no business having it with you.

I dont know why any one would do this but I am all for people taking a CCW class even if they never carry. EDUCATION EDUCATION EDUCATION is always a good thing. When you build your confidence and work out the issues you will be prepared to strap it on and go out your front door. Just because you have permit doesnt mean you need to go out with your weapon the first day you have it. Make sure you fill comfortable.

Enjoy your class remember more guns less crime:)

[Lennyjoe]

The law doesn't specify if you are required to qualify with a certain weapon and use only that weapon.

I think thats a rediculous law anyway. Nothing like that here in AZ.

Only thing I did see thats needed other than the photo, application and money is;

A photocopy of a certificate or an affidavit or document certifying completion of a certified firearms training course

[hillbilly]

The only way to answer you question is look at the laws in your state.

hillbilly

[cz75bdneos22]

in texas, i believe that if you qualify with a revolver, then you only carry revolver. if you qualify with auto, you have a choice o the two. check with your state's law.:scrutiny:

[Standing Wolf]

The only "liability" I can think of is that if you fool around with a gun, you're not going to be able to claim ignorance.

I believe I can speak for most of us when I say that keeping and bearing arms on a regular basis helps us comport ourselves more judiciously, take fewer risks, and watch our mouths.

[Kurt_M]

You should only be liable for improper actions on your part. For instance, you are responsible for your weapon when you carry it. If you negligently leave it unattended and unsecured, you're liable for what happens to it. As long as you behave responsibly, get some good training and most importantly follow that training, your personal liablity for carrying should be zero.

[Jim K]

"There is very little liability in only shooting people who need to be shot."

Probably one of the stupidest comments I have ever seen. As a citizen, legally licensed to carry or not, if you blow someone away, you will be in trouble. And YOU don't get to make the decision that the person "needed to be shot."

Except in your own house (and maybe even then) if you shoot someone, even if not fatally, you WILL be arrested. You may have to make bail to get out. A DA WILL decide whether to prosecute, and that decision may have more to do with the DA's political ambitions than the merits of your case. Then, IF you are acquitted or not prosecuted on criminal charges, the victim's family (who hated his guts) will sue because you killed their "adorable" son/husband/father.

That is why you better not shoot anyone unless you have absolutlely no choice. And why ANYONE who carries a gun should have an attorney on retainer and consult with him/her in advance on what to do if you do wound or kill an attacker.

(FWIW, bragging about your expanding bullet handloads and the hair trigger you put on your gun and how you have always wanted to shoot somebody are not good topics of conversation with the cops.)

Oh, and buy as much personal liability insurance as you possibly can, and make sure it will be good if you are involved in a shooting away from home.

Jim

[neoncowboy]

At one training session I attended I was reminded that every bullet that leaves my gun will have at least one lawyer attached to it.

[gwalchmai]

Except in your own house (and maybe even then) if you shoot someone, even if not fatally, you WILL be arrested. You may have to make bail to get out. What state are you in, Jim? I've seen more than one case in GA recently in which a CCW carrier shot and killed a bad guy and was not charged.

In fact, I can't recall a case in which a CCW carrier was arrested for shooting a bad guy.

[Mannlicher]

What is the Liability for having a CCW. The reason i ask is that i want to be absolutely clear on what i am getting myself into with the whole CCW thing. I have a class im signed up for tomorrow so any quick responses (tonight or so) would be appreciated.

Josh

PS I live into KY.

I am sure there is some liability attached, but it pales in comparison to you being dead because you did NOT have a gun with you when the chips were down.

[Double Naught Spy]

There is very little liability in CCW, but I am sure some folks can still manage to screw up.

No, the liability comes in the discharge of the weapon. The liability in that case parallels what it would be if you were to do it as part of home defense, only outside of your property, there may be more bystanders around to unintentionally injure.

Jim Keenan makes some good points. Some aren't necessarily true, but good points as concerns for shooting in self defense. Contrary to him, you do get to make the decision about who needs to be shot, but that decision will be scrutinized very closely to determine if you were justified in the decision and shooting.

Expect to be arrested and consider yourself fortunate if you are not. Being arrested will be part of due process for a shooting where it may not be blindingly apparent that you were justified.

He says you better not shoot anyone unless you have no other choice. That sounds like a good rule of thumb, but it isn't. If you are in a self defense-related shooting, chances are that you will have several choices to make about what you need to do and shooting will be only one of the choices. Your decision to shoot will likely be the result of the fact that shooting is the best option of the choices available to you, not because it is your only choice. For example, you are walking out to your car in a large and mostly vacant parking lot when somebody approaches you and pulls a knife, threatening to kill you if you don't give up your cash and valuables. What are your available options? You could ignore the guy and maybe he will go away. You could ignore the guy and maybe he tries to kills you. You could take flight. You could attempt to disarm the guy with ninja skills. You could give him your cash and valuables. You can draw your gun and not shoot. You can draw your gun and shoot.

There are always other options, but it does not mean the other options are as good as shooting, or less good, just that they are there.

[CraigJS]

Double Naught Spy,
I had one ex-LEO tell me that he carries an older wallet with a couple of expired/cancelled credit cards, ten bucks in one's, and some non-ID or address identifiable wallet "trash" in it. If he's in a situation like what you described, he'd comply, flipping out the "throw down" wallet as he backed away (trying to gain distance). If the BG's attention is drawn away from himself, BG leaves, or he gets the distance he needs/diversion etc. he will draw his weapon.. Then deciede from there what he must do.. Which includes calling the PD on his cell phone.
It may or maynot work like anything else in those situations up to and including drawing down on the creep!
CraigJS

[Hawkmoon]

The law doesn't specify if you are required to qualify with a certain weapon and use only that weapon.
Not so fast.

Some jurisdictions require that you list the specific gun on your license. One state for which I considered getting a non-resident CCW required that you qualify with the caliber pistol you wanted to carry. In other words, to carry a .45 in that state I couldn't shoot my qualifying target with a .22 target pistol.

Check the laws of the state in which you are applying. There really is no other answer.

[mrmeval]

Don't use a machine gun, they put a local gun dealer in jail for that. :(
There is very little liability in only shooting people who need to be shot.

[mrmeval]

http://www.packing.org

http://www.packing.org/state/kentucky/

There shold be a state website as well and a KY CCW association or gun rights group you can check with.

Does anyone know if you have to qualify on a Semiauto to carry a semauto? Can i qualify in Kentucky with a Revolver and then carry a semiauto (havent had much practice time with my XD9 in the past month due to it being at Springfield Armory). I am currently on Packing.org trying to determine this. Thanks

[ShackleMeNot]

"There is very little liability in only shooting people who need to be shot."

Probably one of the stupidest comments I have ever seen. As a citizen, legally licensed to carry or not, if you blow someone away, you will be in trouble. And YOU don't get to make the decision that the person "needed to be shot."

Except in your own house (and maybe even then) if you shoot someone, even if not fatally, you WILL be arrested. You may have to make bail to get out. A DA WILL decide whether to prosecute, and that decision may have more to do with the DA's political ambitions than the merits of your case. Then, IF you are acquitted or not prosecuted on criminal charges, the victim's family (who hated his guts) will sue because you killed their "adorable" son/husband/father.

That is why you better not shoot anyone unless you have absolutlely no choice. And why ANYONE who carries a gun should have an attorney on retainer and consult with him/her in advance on what to do if you do wound or kill an attacker.

(FWIW, bragging about your expanding bullet handloads and the hair trigger you put on your gun and how you have always wanted to shoot somebody are not good topics of conversation with the cops.)

Oh, and buy as much personal liability insurance as you possibly can, and make sure it will be good if you are involved in a shooting away from home.

Jim

Wow. I have no idea where you are coming from by calling my comment stupid but your reading comprehension needs some work.

Look at the definition of the key word "need": A condition or situation in which something is required.

If someone needs to be shot there is no other choice. If you ONLY shoot people who NEED to be shot there is very little risk of liability.

[jtward01]

"Oh, and buy as much personal liability insurance as you possibly can, and make sure it will be good if you are involved in a shooting away from home." Jim

This is not always good advice. If you own a home or business, or have other significant personal assets then yes, you need enough personal liability insurance to cover any potential damage award, but if you live in an apartment, work for someone else and don't have a lot of assets a large personal liability policy can actually attract a lawsuit that otherwise may not have been filed.

Hey, if you've got a solid marriage and you're not afraid the wife is going to run off with the milkman it wouldn't be a bad idea to put the house and other assets in her name if you decide to get a CCW permit and use it. That way if you do get sued the house is safe. (You can't get away with transfering the stuff to the wife after you get sued, or even after you're involved in a shooting. You gotta transfer it well in advance so a lawyer can't convince the judge that the only reason you transfered the stuff to her was to protect it from a judgement, which of course, it was.)

[MillCreek]

Oh, and buy as much personal liability insurance as you possibly can, and make sure it will be good if you are involved in a shooting away from home

Since we have covered this many times, I won't repeat it here, but you can find the threads by searching the term 'insurance'. In a nutshell, I do insurance and liability for a living. Your homeowners or personal liability umbrella policy generally provides no coverage for any civil liability arising out of a self-defense or other shooting. The reason for this is the 'intentional acts' exclusion found in virtually all such policies, and the appellate court decisions defining non-accidental shootings as coming under this exclusion.

[Quickdraw Limpsalot]

SecuritySixShooter -

In KY, there are no restrictions on which gun you qualify with. It can be a .22 revolver or a 1911, doesn't have to be the gun you're going to carry.

Packing.org is a great resource, as is http://www.kc3.com/

[Geno]

I wish that in Michigan that elderly people could qualify with a .22 LR. The elderly would be more likely to carry! I do know several business owners who carry S&W .22LR revolvers (10 shots). I had to shoot at least a .380 but for me it doesn't matter because I carry a .45 and a 9MM.

Doc2005

[Hawken50]

There is very little liability in only shooting people who need to be shot.
Now that is destined to become a classic.

[Rockstar]

Worrying about your potential liability, should you actually have to use a firearm in self-defense (contrary to Jim Keenan's "expert" advice) is something that should never enter your mind.

How you are treated, post-shooting, depends on your jurisdiction. In many jurisdictions, a D.A.'s political ambitions would be thwarted, should he/she unnecessarily prosecute honest citizens who've used lethal force to defend themselves or others. Thankfully, I live in one of those jurisdictions.

If you hesitate for a millisecond, when The Time comes, all these discussions about liability might very well be moot. Like Gwalchmai said, there are many cases in GA and other Red states where honest citizens aren't treated as criminals, unless they actually behave as criminals.

Best advice is: (1) never read a book or article by a buy named Ayoob; (2) get your legal advice from a real criminal defense lawyer (not l.e.o.) in your jurisdiction; (3) have a better mindset about not hesitating to use lethal force than the guy who's trying to kill you.

[ShackleMeNot]

Now that is destined to become a classic.

Not everyone seems to think so ;)