The U of U ask about guns, then didn't like the results so they scrubbed the poll.


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PvtPyle
April 4, 2003, 10:43 AM
They did not like the results so they scrubbed it. Mitch V called them on it and it doing his usual best to make sure everyone knows that they scrubbed the poll and the REAL reason why. (For those who dont know Mitch, he is a serious pain in the rear to all the anti's and if I remember right he is one of the guys handling the AOL lawsuit. He makes his info available on line and at the shows so I dont think he would mind the posting of his contact info.)

Now go and vote, but make sure you do the right thing and only vote once.

<http://sh2.alumni.utah.edu/alumni/newsletter.php>


> This is the response I got from the alumni assoc. I hope everyone
> just votes once. We need to always take the high ground on these
> things.
>
> James D. "Mitch" Vilos
> Attorney at Law



> -----Original Message-----
> From: Linda Marion [mailto:lmarion@alumni.utah.edu]
> Sent: Wednesday, April 02, 2003 12:55 PM
> To: mitchv@firearmslaw.com
> Subject: RE: U of U poll re guns on campus
>
>
> Mr. Vilos,
>
> Thank you for your comments. On the contrary, when it became clear
> that someone had been "spamming" our poll, we began working on fixing
> the problem this morning. I informed the newsletter technical
> specialist of the situation, and he is working to delete all of the
> duplications. It's obvious that someone with a pro-guns on campus
> agenda has been undermining the validity of the poll--something we
> will try not to allow to happen again. Otherwise, we'll have to devise
> another system.
>
> Believe me, the lack of integrity comes from those who are attempting
> to undermine a serious attempt to reflect the opinion of our alumni
> readers, not the Alumni Association.
>
> In any case, we appreciate your response.
>
> Linda Marion
> Editor
> U-News & Views
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: James D. Vilos [mailto:mitchv@firearmslaw.com]
> Sent: Wednesday, April 02, 2003 12:40 PM
> To: lmarion@alumni.utah.edu
> Subject: U of U poll re guns on campus
>
>
> I was watching with interest how your poll about guns on campus was
> progressing. Last night there were almost 800 votes that were pro
> concealed carry. This morning I noticed most of the pro CCP votes had
> been "erased?" I suppose now you will use your "rigged" poll in an
> attempt to convince the public that the polls show that Utahns don't
> want concealed firearm permit holders to carry their guns on campus?
> Is this the kind of "integrity" they teach at the U of U?
>
>
>
> James D. "Mitch" Vilos
> Attorney at Law

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4v50 Gary
April 4, 2003, 10:54 AM
There are two pro-gun choices (yes b/c of 2A & yes b/c of crime deterrent) and two anti-gun choices. The poll presently is 87% in favor of firearms. Thanks Pvt Pyle.

George Hill
April 4, 2003, 10:55 AM
Thanks for posting this.

I don't think they are going to like the results this time either.

Lars
April 4, 2003, 11:13 AM
I think that when I voted there were only 245 votes. Very strong CCW pro 2nd results. I can understand that they wanted to eliminate people that are voting more than once.

cordex
April 4, 2003, 11:20 AM
250 votes
64.4% - Concealed weapons should be allowed on college campuses because the right to bear arms is guaranteed by the Second Amendment
20.8% - Concealed weapons should be allowed on college campuses because they would act as a deterrent to criminal behavior
13.2% - Concealed weapons should not be allowed on college campuses because the dangers outweigh the benefits
1.6% - Concealed weapons should not be allowed on college campuses because they would deter free speech and academic freedom

What I want to know is how "they would deter free speech and academic freedom". *sigh*

ball3006
April 4, 2003, 01:19 PM
Utah State....class of '66....chris3

Don Gwinn
April 4, 2003, 01:30 PM
Very simple, Cordex. When people know that the student next to them in class could possibly have A Gun under his shirt, they will be justifiably afraid to voice any disagreement with that person during class discussions for fear that he'll kill everyone in the room in a fit of rage at having had his analysis of Heart of Darkness contradicted.

This is not inference--it was brought up last time there was a big brouhaha over guns on Utah college campuses. Many of the antis actually believe that the reason people want to carry guns is so that they can blow away people who argue with them in class.

tommytrauma
April 4, 2003, 01:32 PM
They didn't scrub the poll because they didn't like the results, they scrubbed it because it was spammed to ridiculous proportions. There's a long thread on Ar15.com about the origional poll.

Blackhawk
April 4, 2003, 01:40 PM
tommytrauma nailed it.

They've apparently fixed the poll to preclude spamming, which they should have done in the first place

PvtPyle
April 4, 2003, 01:42 PM
Personally I like polls that only let you vote one time. You get better results that way. But the fact remains that they are a bunch of chicken******s who would not publish the results anyway.

Correia
April 4, 2003, 02:24 PM
Ball3006, GO AGGIES! :D Class of 2000.

Standing Wolf
April 4, 2003, 08:41 PM
Concealed weapons should be allowed on college campuses because the right to bear arms is guaranteed by the Second Amendment. 70.5%

Concealed weapons should be allowed on college campuses because they would act as a deterrent to criminal behavior. 19.4%

Concealed weapons should not be allowed on college campuses because the dangers outweigh the benefits and they would not deter criminal behavior. 8.6%

Concealed weapons should not be allowed on college campuses because they would deter free speech and academic freedom.

Interesting numbers!

George Hill
April 4, 2003, 09:27 PM
UVSC, BYU, and now USU...
I knew something was different at the USU campus when I saw the BUDWIESER TRUCK backed up the the Student Center.
:what:

Coronach
April 5, 2003, 12:35 AM
The fact remains that all of these polls are unscientific and are just a test of which "side" can get more of its people to go to a site and cast a vote. Worthless. Completely worthless.

I vote anyway. I mean...its worthless, but we might as well "win." ;)

Mike *shrug*

Goet
April 5, 2003, 10:18 AM
Carrying a CCW leads one to commit acts of violence?

I think otherwise.


Otherwise, I probably would have shot that guy that threatened me in class last week.



At least I know he doesn't carry. Immature liberals!
:rolleyes:


The gov. just signed a bill that does nothing but reaffirm the 1996 CCW law. The liberals are all in a tizzy that the state approves CCW in schools and universities, all the time forgetting that we've been doing it for the last 7 years.




Signed,

Armed high school teacher, looking for a contract...

TheOtherOne
April 5, 2003, 10:50 AM
I went to the U a few years ago for one semester. I guess that makes me alumni. From what I remember everyone was pretty sane and down to earth. I didn't even think something like this would be an issue but I guess the loud words of a few can cause a stir.


The gov. just signed a bill that does nothing but reaffirm the 1996 CCW law. The liberals are all in a tizzy that the state approves CCW in schools and universities, all the time forgetting that we've been doing it for the last 7 years.Yeah, an unnecessary bill that unfortunately passed. Bad for gun owners. They slapped an amendment on that bill which gives churches and private property owners legal grounds to kick you off their property just for having a gun.

Another pro-gun bill that really isn't. Oh and I've been meaning to ask.... what's up with that pro-gun bill in 1986 that banned new machine guns? Sounds anti-gun to me.

PvtPyle
April 6, 2003, 03:14 PM
The "firearms owners protection act" in 1986 was a great bill until the last minute. Thats when they threw in the MG wording. Other wise it has been one of the most benificial bills passed for gun-owners.

Utah law also says that if they deny you the right to carry your legal gun, legally concealed or otherwise on their property, they are responsible for your safety and well being while you are there. If something happens to me then they are looking at a serious civil suit that they probably wont win that could cost them millions. I have reminded two establishments of that little law and I now carry there without harrassment. Block Busters and the E-Center. I forget the law number but it is in Mitch's book vol 2.

And if you are carring concealed, how are they going to know?:rolleyes:

foghornl
April 7, 2003, 10:40 AM
As of 10:30Am EDT on 4-7-2003, the Pro CCW vote is still up about 83% to17%.

Wonder if the poll will get scrubbed again ? ? ? ? ? Would certainly damage theirl integity.....

MeekandMild
April 7, 2003, 11:13 AM
Don sez: . Many of the antis actually believe that the reason people want to carry guns is so that they can blow away people who argue with them in class.

I've seen that time and again. The anti camp seems to attract people with poor impulse control and a hypertrophied sense of outrage. :rolleyes:

cratz2
April 7, 2003, 11:30 AM
I am all for the right granted by the 2nd A. Esp for teachers and those that are on caompus incidentally, delivery drivers, cab drivers etc... And I'm all for free speech. But when I was in college, and I admit I went to a pretty liberal college, there were some knock down drag out fights. We're talkin' Geraldo Rivera stuff here. There was more than one time that I left a room as, while I don't like to think I have any unfounded phobias, I've never liked being in a room or a gym with a mob of people yelling.

Having said all that, I think, I honestly believe that if right now today they allowed every kid of age in college or university to carry, there would be a rash of school shootings. Not saying that we couldn't get past it, but in the United States, which strives for individual safety, I can see how some folks would be against it. On the other hand, the school could probably sponser shooting and use of lethal force classes which if presented properly would no doubt convert more folks to RKBA. And there would be fewer date rapes I'm sure.

I don't know... it's complicated.

AZTOY
April 7, 2003, 12:57 PM
Which best reflects your feelings about permit holders bringing concealed weapons on campus:
Concealed weapons should be allowed on college campuses because the right to bear arms is guaranteed by the Second Amendment.63.3%

Concealed weapons should be allowed on college campuses because they would act as a deterrent to criminal behavior.20.2%

Concealed weapons should not be allowed on college campuses because the dangers outweigh the benefits and they would not deter criminal behavior. 15.3%

Concealed weapons should not be allowed on college campuses because they would deter free speech and academic freedom. 1.2%

Total votes: 575

Double Maduro
April 7, 2003, 01:59 PM
We need to thank people like Mitch who keep up the good fight.

Don't let 'em get away with anything.

simon
April 7, 2003, 02:44 PM
I voted "none of the above"
and wrote this;

The question #1 on the poll was almost right.
Concealed guns SHOULD be allowed on campus not only because that right is guarenteed in the second amendment,but without the second,there would be NO FIRST AMENDMENT, guarenteeing the so-called staff of the university to speak their minds on ANY subject.Without the Second Amendment protecting ALL the other Amendments,this would be just another ho-hum communist country.
We in America have basic rights seen no-where else on earth.The Constitution and Bill of Rights are there to remind us of this fact.

blades67
April 7, 2003, 03:05 PM
Well, the poll is still telling them what they didn't want to hear.

Concealed weapons should be allowed on college campuses because the right to bear arms is guaranteed by the Second Amendment.

63.4%

Concealed weapons should be allowed on college campuses because they would act as a deterrent to criminal behavior.

20.2%

Concealed weapons should not be allowed on college campuses because the dangers outweigh the benefits and they would not deter criminal behavior.

15.2%

Concealed weapons should not be allowed on college campuses because they would deter free speech and academic freedom.

1.2%

Total votes: 584


I wonder what "problem" they will encounter next time.:rolleyes:

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