CCW on Greyhound


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Gaiudo
December 5, 2005, 04:36 AM
Mods, if this needs to be elsewhere, please proceed as needed....

For Christmas break I will be flying back from Canada to Omaha, Nebraska where my grandparents are living. Grandma thought it would be nice if I didn't spend my Christmas in a basement suite studying, so was nice enough to buy a ticket. My brother is graduating that week down in Tennesee, so she also thought I might want to go down and see him and then drive back up to NE with him. So she bought me a Greyhound bus ticket down there.

Now, all my firearms are in Nebraska, patiently awaiting my return from Vancouver :banghead: I hate the thought of traveling for two weeks without a sidearm. I have heard something about Greyhound not being all too friendly with CCW's.

So here is the question: how do I take this dang trip without being unarmed all the time (including the week or so in Tennessee, and the drive back to Omaha?) I have a resident TX CCL, so the trip from Omaha through Missouri/Arkansas through Tennessee would be no problem from a legal perspective. What authority does Greyhound have to regulate my CCW? Is this just one of those situations where you go deep conceal and forget about the "rules". I guess I could always ship my Kimber down to Tennessee, but to spend that much money on a week... :barf:

A little help on this one would be nice.

:cuss: freaking bus policies.....:cuss:

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SMLE
December 5, 2005, 04:42 AM
Greyhound lines prohibits even transporting a firearm in checked baggage, let alone carrying one. Even if you're not breaking any laws, they have pre-boarding screeners at many terminals now and if you're caught, you'll be tossed of the bus and banned from riding Greyhound again. You can also expect them to do everyting thay can to get you arested and your gun confiscated. :cuss:
They'll also swear out criminal trespass complaints against you. In short, Greyhound Lines is a pack of inflamed, infected anal sphincters. They're as bad as the TSA at airports anymore. :cuss:
All the terminals I've seen are posted and supposedly there is some Federal regulation that prohibits carrying in the terminals as well.

Get a refund on the bus ticket and try getting a plane ticket on priceline.com or something. Besides, the bus is just about the slowest, most miserable way to travel possible anymore. :barf:

Darth Ruger
December 5, 2005, 05:00 AM
SMLE is correct. I took a Greyhound trip just a couple of months ago. They don't allow guns at all, whether on you, in your carry-on bag, or a checked bag in the cargo hold. They don't care if you have a carry permit (I called Greyhound before my trip to verify this). They have the right to prohibit guns on their buses, just like any other business can do the same on their premises/property. I had to take my trip unarmed.

They didn't go through anyone's bags on my trip, but they reserve the right to do so if they want to. This is all made very clear in the rules that will be listed in the envelope with your ticket.

If you're caught with a gun, they'll probably throw you off the bus and then you'll be stuck wherever you're at. And they might also call the cops and, depending on which State it is (or maybe the State the trip originated in), you might be in violation of State law, if the law of that State says you can't bring guns onto the premises/property of a business if that business prohibits it.

The ironic part is that my trip went from Washington, through Idaho to Montana, and back again. Both Idaho and Montana honor Washington permits. So with my Washington permit, I could have carried in all three States without any problems, but I still had to go unarmed because of Greyhound's anti-gun rules.

Besides, the bus is just about the slowest, most miserable way to travel possible anymore.I'll second that. I was surprised at how cramped, slow, and miserable the trip was. They stopped every 1 1/2 - 2 hours during the night, which, combined with the cramped seats, made sleep impossible, and stretching an eight hour drive into 13 hours. There were only three stops listed on the itinerary, but we made a total of six.

1911 guy
December 5, 2005, 08:49 AM
Once, and only once. Went from Cleveland, Oh. to Memphis, Tn. Long, slow, and cramped are indeed good adjectives. I can add a few invectives, too, if you want.

jondar
December 5, 2005, 09:32 AM
I was coming back from Monterrey, Mexico, caught a GH at Laredo. About twenty miles above the border the bus was pulled over by five or six officers.
I think they were immigration but not sure. Anyway, they boarded the bus, asked for ID from everyone on the bus, around twenty people. I had my passport, handed it to him, he looked it over briefly, handed it back, asked me which bag was mine on the overhead rack, I said the blue one. I think I may have been the only one on the bus whose bag was NOT searched. Go figure.

WT
December 5, 2005, 09:59 AM
I suggest looking at the US Gun Control Act of 1968, specifically the parts dealing with carrying a firearm across state lines aboard a public conveyance engaged in interstate commerce.

SIOP
December 5, 2005, 10:00 AM
Sounds like you're S.O.L. for the Greyhound part of the trip, but you could ship a gun to yourself in Tennessee so you'd have it for the time you're there and the trip back to Omaha. You don't have to go through an FFL to ship a gun to yourself.

middy
December 5, 2005, 11:06 AM
Last time I travelled Greyhound I ended up sitting on my bags in the aisle aboard a bus that smelled like an overloaded Port-A-Potty for 10 hours. :fire:

Never again.

pharmer
December 5, 2005, 12:10 PM
Took the dog in '93 from Orlando Fl to Austin Tx. Worst travel experience in my life. Stopped in every Sh##hole in between. To pick up every knuckle draggin toothless foola#s and parolee around. Averaged about 20 mph for the trip. Never again, I'll hitch its faster. Joe

countertop
December 5, 2005, 12:14 PM
Not sure what your dates are or where in Tennessee your going, but a quick search on Orbitz.com turned up a Delta flight from Omaha to Nashville on Monday December 19th for only $109 ($130 with all taxes and fees).

You can leave at 6 am and arrive in Nashville at 10:29 or leave at 7:05 and arrive at 10:45 or leave at 7:45 and arrive at 12:53 or leave at 10:28 and arrive at 3:20.

Your choice, but in all cases, it sure sounds cheaper and easier and quicker (a whole hell of a lot quicker) than greyhound.

On Greyhound, btw, you would leave at 6:00 am and the earliest you would arrive is 18 hours later at 12:45 am tuesday morning or 5:00 am tuesday morning or even worse 9:30 am tuesday morning. You don't even get a price break either. The standard fare is $127.50 ($2.50 less than a nice easy flight) and the advanced purchase rate is $67. Its not my money, but I would tell you my time (not to mention security) is worth far more than the $40 you would waste on Greyhound.

thatguy
December 5, 2005, 12:20 PM
Interstate bus is the same as an airliner in regards to carrying a gun. Prohibited by federal law in the terminal and on the bus.

Gaiudo
December 5, 2005, 12:33 PM
Wow, unbelievable. I heard it was bad, but that bad....?:cuss:

Well, I'm sending an email now to see if we can get the ticket canceled and get an airline ticket . Its hard to believe Greyhound is that anti.... just wow.

Someone needs to start up the equivalent of the hooters airlines, just for gunowners, and with a busline extension. :evil:

Thanks for the solid responses, its amazing how one can have a question one evening, and then wake up and have it completely answered for you.

Someone suggested mailing my firearm to myself from Omaha to Tennessee: is that feasible/legal? Any online info about the legalities of mailing such and getting around FFL? Wouldn't want to "lose" the Kimber in the mail, thats for sure.

Pilgrim
December 5, 2005, 12:42 PM
I have ridden Amtrak and have not been bothered nor had my baggage searched. Much more comfortable than the bus.

Pilgrim

carebear
December 5, 2005, 02:08 PM
Interstate bus is the same as an airliner in regards to carrying a gun. Prohibited by federal law in the terminal and on the bus.

Carry is not prohibited in the terminal by Federal law, only beyond the actual security checkpoint. You have to be able to bring (carry) the (unloaded and secured) gun into the terminal in order to check it, no?

Your state and local laws and airport rules may differ on open or concealed, loaded carry, but the Fed.gov cares not a whit outside security.

EOD Guy
December 5, 2005, 03:12 PM
Carry is not prohibited in the terminal by Federal law, only beyond the actual security checkpoint. You have to be able to bring (carry) the (unloaded and secured) gun into the terminal in order to check it, no?

Your state and local laws and airport rules may differ on open or concealed, loaded carry, but the Fed.gov cares not a whit outside security.

Federal law requires you to declare firearms with any interstate carrier who may then take possession for the duration of the trip. (See 27CFR 478.31)

There is no requirement that the carrier allow firearms to be transported.

The fact is that if you are carrying on Greyhound or Amtrack, you would be in violation of Federal law.

orangeninja
December 5, 2005, 03:17 PM
:banghead: I agree...don't break the law and don't get stranded. But do carry a weapon. I had two hispanic gentlemen try to rob me and take my guitar at a Greyhound terminal. Do you think the Greyhound employees gave a damn? Nope...they just gave me a bloodshot eyed stare and said they'd call the cops....so it was up to me and my brother to take care of business.

ka50
December 5, 2005, 03:21 PM
deep concealment

as far as I'm aware they don't check you for weapons before you board

if no one knows you have it, no one can complain about and no one can arrest you

but if you do need it, I'd rather be judged by 12, rather than carried by 6.

carebear
December 5, 2005, 03:22 PM
Federal law requires you to declare firearms with any interstate carrier who may then take possession for the duration of the trip. (See 27CFR 478.31)

There is no requirement that the carrier allow firearms to be transported.

The fact is that if you are carrying on Greyhound or Amtrack, you would be in violation of Federal law.

Right, the CFR applies if you are traveling with the weapon. You are free (again, subject to local yadda yadda) to CARRY and possess in the terminal itself, outside the security perimeter.

Meet a traveler, get a cup of coffee, an overpriced hardback or even a shoeshine (with a $5 parking fee). As long as you don't go through security.

SMLE
December 5, 2005, 03:26 PM
deep concealment

as far as I'm aware they don't check you for weapons before you board

if no one knows you have it, no one can complain about and no one can arrest you

but if you do need it, I'd rather be judged by 12, rather than carried by 6.Now they do. Not in all terminals, but in many. As of the late summer of 2004, it was just over 30 and the program was growing. I worked as a security officer in the Albuquerque terminal until I got sick of the whole mess. :barf:

carebear
December 5, 2005, 03:34 PM
The Greyhound station in San Diego is, IIRC, less than a block from central booking. :uhoh:

I used the train to get from Oceanslime to Dago if I could help it.

rot13enatre
December 5, 2005, 06:49 PM
... so the trip from Omaha through Missouri/Arkansas through Tennessee would be no problem from a legal perspective.

From my CCW class recently, Missouri has a weird law that doesn't allow carry on buses, even with a permit. If I remember correctly, it falls under bus hijacking and is a felony, but the main point I got was do not carry on a bus in Missouri even with a permit. Maybe someone else can correct me, or clear up the exact regulation some.

Gaiudo
December 5, 2005, 06:54 PM
From my CCW class recently, Missouri has a weird law that doesn't allow carry on buses, even with a permit. If I remember correctly, it falls under bus hijacking and is a felony, but the main point I got was do not carry on a bus in Missouri even with a permit. Maybe someone else can correct me, or clear up the exact regulation some.

Does someone have more info on this? Bus hijacking? What a load of crock. :cuss: Excuse me, I think I've been using that too much on this thread. :banghead:

They must have some wierd stuff going on in the book in Missouri.

Gaiudo
December 5, 2005, 06:59 PM
Ok then definately not carrying on Greyhound. And am looking into flights down to Memphis.

If the flight doesn't work out, is there anything I should know about mailing a firearm down to myself? Legalities, packing, safety, etc? I guess would simply put my own name on it.

Shel
December 5, 2005, 07:21 PM
I've ridden Greyhound before. BIG mistake. To make a long story short, I had a connection to make in Atlanta. The driver got lost, we arrived in Atlanta about 3 hours late. So I ended up spending the night in the Atlanta bus station.

I figure those asshats at Greyhound would find some way to have you charged with some type of crime if you got caught carrying. I figure if you did get caught, the very least that would happen is you would lose your gun. And the sad thing is, the types of places and stuff you see around Greyhounds stations, you NEED to be packing!

Car Knocker
December 5, 2005, 07:56 PM
Gaiudo,

As I recall, a bus got hijacked in Eastern Utah earlier this year. It does happen. Not successfully. But occasionally.

Lupinus
December 5, 2005, 08:33 PM
Sucky as it may be you have to go by it since it is their private property just like you can't carry into a building which prohibits it. It sucks big time but that's life unfortunatly with the world we live in.

thatguy
December 5, 2005, 10:12 PM
carebear- Just like at the airport, firearms being transported in secure containers may be carried in. I'm talking about CARRYING a gun, as in, concealed carry... you know... shoot bad guys. That is prohibited by FEDERAL LAW and has nothing to do with Greyhound being anti-gun. It's the law. Same with the train if it crosses state line. Any interstate public transportation is off limits for concealed carry.

States can regulate concealed carry on intrastate buses. I know that Arizona used to prohibit carry on city buses but I don't know if that's still true. About 10 years ago I was in Phoenix on business and boarded a city bus with a sign on the door advising that no guns were allowed. I asked the driver if that worked in keeping crooks disarmed. He just laughed.

carebear
December 5, 2005, 10:28 PM
I understand that thatguy. :D (alliteration, mmmmmmm)

I'm saying concealed carry, in an airport, outside of the security zone, is explicitly legal under Federal law. Airports are not by law prohibited places, the Fed's defer to State and Local law (and private airport policy) on that issue.

If it ain't posted, you can carry concealed. The USA doesn't care.

[Code of Federal Regulations]
[Title 49, Volume 8]
[Revised as of October 1, 2003]
From the U.S. Government Printing Office via GPO Access
[CITE: 49CFR1540.111]

[Page 295]

TITLE 49--TRANSPORTATION

CHAPTER XII--TRANSPORTATION SECURITY ADMINISTRATION, DEPARTMENT OF
HOMELAND SECURITY

PART 1540--CIVIL AVIATION SECURITY: GENERAL RULES--Table of Contents

Subpart B--Responsibilities of Passengers and Other Individuals and
Persons

Sec. 1540.111 Carriage of weapons, explosives, and incendiaries by individuals.

(a) On an individual's person or accessible property--prohibitions.
Except as provided in paragraph (b) of this section, an individual may
not have a weapon, explosive, or incendiary, on or about the
individual's person or accessible property--
(1) When performance has begun of the inspection of the individual's
person or accessible property before entering a sterile area, or before
boarding an aircraft for which screening is conducted under Sec.
1544.201 or Sec. 1546.201 of this chapter;
(2) When the individual is entering or in a sterile area; or
(3) When the individual is attempting to board or onboard an
aircraft for which screening is conducted under Sec. 1544.201 or Sec.
1546.201 of this chapter.
(b) On an individual's person or accessible property--permitted
carriage of a weapon. Paragraph (a) of this section does not apply as to
carriage of firearms and other weapons if the individual is one of the
following:
(1) Law enforcement personnel required to carry a firearm or other
weapons while in the performance of law enforcement duty at the airport.
(2) An individual authorized to carry a weapon in accordance with
Sec.Sec. 1544.219, 1544.221, 1544.223, or 1546.211 of this chapter.
(3) An individual authorized to carry a weapon in a sterile area
under a security program.
(c) In checked baggage. A passenger may not transport or offer for
transport in checked baggage:
(1) Any loaded firearm(s).
(2) Any unloaded firearm(s) unless--
(i) The passenger declares to the aircraft operator, either orally
or in writing, before checking the baggage, that the passenger has a
firearm in his or her bag and that it is unloaded;
(ii) The firearm is unloaded;
(iii) The firearm is carried in a hard-sided container; and
(iv) The container in which it is carried is locked, and only the
passenger retains the key or combination.
(3) Any unauthorized explosive or incendiary.
(d) Ammunition. This section does not prohibit the carriage of
ammunition in checked baggage or in the same container as a firearm.
Title 49 CFR part 175 provides additional requirements governing
carriage of ammunition on aircraft.

[67 FR 8353, Feb. 22, 2002, as amended at 67 FR 41639, June 19, 2002]

raydoctor
December 5, 2005, 10:42 PM
From my CCW class recently, Missouri has a weird law that doesn't allow carry on buses, even with a permit. If I remember correctly, it falls under bus hijacking and is a felony, but the main point I got was do not carry on a bus in Missouri even with a permit. Maybe someone else can correct me, or clear up the exact regulation some.


I've heard the same thing about carrying on a bus in Missouri. I think I read it over at Packing.org.......the jist I got was that it's a felony to carry on a bus in Missouri. Chalk up another reason to never ride a bus!

Standing Wolf
December 5, 2005, 10:51 PM
I'd rather walk.

wdlsguy
December 6, 2005, 12:53 AM
1) I don't think Nebraska allows anyone to CCW.

http://www.packing.org/state/nebraska

2) Missouri does have a weird law against carrying on a bus (class C felony).

http://www.packing.org/state/missouri/#stateoff_limits

carebear
December 6, 2005, 12:59 AM
I can understand why one might resort to extreme measures to get away from, say, Neosho Missouri. But is bus hijacking really such a problem?

SIOP
December 6, 2005, 10:08 AM
I can understand why one might resort to extreme measures to get away from, say, Neosho Missouri. But is bus hijacking really such a problem?


We had one here in Nebraska recently. Guy took over a cross-country bus full of people. My memory is a little hazy on this, but I think he used a knife.

gunsmith
December 6, 2005, 10:51 AM
I went from florida to CA with a dissassembled handgun in my carry on even though I checked and they told me I couldn't.
When I asked the guy told me "you're not allowed to carry but we never check, you know what I mean?" you could practically hear the wink wink over the phone!:D

middy
December 6, 2005, 11:16 AM
Before 9/11 is an entirely different world, gunsmith.

The back of the Greyhound used to be a party... :o

roo_ster
December 6, 2005, 11:18 AM
It has been suggested that you fly. If that doesn't, well, fly, check out renting an automobile & driving it. Good weekly rates can be had, as well as old folks' & AAA discounts. Or you could ask for the corporate rate.

Also, you could rent one-way & drop off, twice. Think you can make the run in under 24 hours? What am I saying? You;re in college, of course you can.

countertop
December 6, 2005, 12:07 PM
Ok,

Countertop is throwing on his travel agent hat again.

Orbitz is listing a flight on Monday December 19th from Omaha to Memphis - with 2 transfers - for $282 per person Departing at 8:00 am on Air Midwest, switching to Delta in Kansas City and then flying into Memphis from Atlanta on Northwest at 5:27

Not ideal, but still faster (a lot faster) than Greyhound.

The other option is to Fly into Little Rock (its only 130 miles on a major interstate highway from Memphis) and you can get a flight on Orbitz for $156 (complete with fees, etc) leaving Omaha at 7:45 or 10:28 and arriving in Little Rock at 2:13 or 6:15 respectively.


If you are willing to fly Southwest - you can get a $139 Fun Fare that departs Omaha at 8:45 and arrives at Little Rock at 1:45 pm. Thats what I would do and have your brother drive out to pick you up. Or, if cost is really a concern, fly Southwest into Nashville (just under 3 hours from Memphis) with an Internet One Way fare of $89.

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