Tuner and Fuff: USGI National Match barrel...by Kart!


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Mossyrock
December 5, 2005, 08:05 PM
Gents,

I came across a strange one the other day on Ebay. A guy had a USGI National Match barrel with the correct markings, but insisted it was a Kart. Well, I probably paid too much, but I bought it. Now that I have it, I'm not altogether sure that I didn't get the short end of the stick. Oh, it's a Kart alright, but it had been previously fitted, and POORLY, at that! The locking lugs look like they were carved with a dull pocket knife, but they are cut very shallow, so I think they can be cleaned up. The barrel hood is also oversized, and will not fit a series 80 Colt GM, so there should be enough material there to clean up the mess left by the previous owner. The barrel feet may be another matter. I don't have any measurements handy, but they look pretty chewed up. When I got the barrel, the slide stop pin hole in the link was OVAL! I canned the link, and will have to replace it when I have the barrel fitted. I am hoping that I didn't throw money away. Take a look at these photos and let me know what you think....

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v210/Mossyrock/KartNM1.jpg
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v210/Mossyrock/KartNM2.jpg
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v210/Mossyrock/KartNM3.jpg
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v210/Mossyrock/KartNM4.jpg

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Phoenix_III
December 5, 2005, 09:25 PM
Get Calipers.

Give measurements.

Old Fuff
December 5, 2005, 09:29 PM
That is one beat barrel...:eek:

The USGI Match barrels were designed and developed at Springfiels Arsenal, and they were the prime contractor until Rock Island took over after Springfield was closed. Bidding on the contracts was open, and almost anyone could bid - but the finished product had to pass government, not company inspection. At the moment I'm not where my research material is, but I suppose that Kart could have bid and won one or more on the many contracts. If he did the barrels would have had to meet the government's blueprints and specifications, and the current EZ-Fit barrel wouldn't have done that.

I think someone owes you a refund - if a national match barrel has been previously fitted to a gun it should be so stated by the seller. :fire:

Edited to add: Some of the contractors continued to make barrels (with the government markings) after they filled Uncle Sam's contracts. These were for commercial sale, and might or might not have passed a government inspection. I believe the true USGI barrels had an inspector's stamp on the lower barrel lug, but I can't offer any additional details at the moment.

Jim Watson
December 5, 2005, 09:34 PM
That is a battered looking barrel. I am not qualified to say what it needs to be usable. But is sure looks beat up.

My FLG has talked to Mr Kart about his barrels and was told that some of their dimensions are due to requirements for barrels sold to military pistol teams and he just uses them throughout. Except on the oddball EZ and non-.45s, of course.

Mossyrock
December 6, 2005, 10:04 AM
Barrel hood at narrowest point: .416"
Barrel hood at widest point: .444"
Depth of rear locking lug: .0321"
Depth of forward locking lug: .0485"
Distance from bottom of link pin hole to bottom of feet: .0725"

Old Fuff
December 6, 2005, 01:44 PM
At one time the Springfield and Rock Island Arsenals would rebuild any National Match pistols that remained in their inventory on a yearly basis. After being inspected, the frames were retained, but most of the rest, including slides and barrels were sold as surplus. Consequently various vendors would offer "National Match" barrels for sale in the civilian market for attractive prices, but they were often next to useless because they had been previously fitted to another gun. It is possible that the barrel that is the subject of this thread was one of those, and it got messed up when someone either put it into another pistol without making any modifications, or tried to retrofit it and it ended up as it is now. :cuss:

1911Tuner
December 6, 2005, 08:39 PM
Haven't seen one. Anybody know if they had .315 lug slot height or .295? Short-chambered? If they were true hard-fit barrels, I'd like to call Fred and get one made to GI NM specs. Got me another project comin' soon if things work out as planned.:p

Mossyrock
December 7, 2005, 02:40 PM
Haven't seen one. Anybody know if they had .315 lug slot height or .295? Short-chambered? If they were true hard-fit barrels, I'd like to call Fred and get one made to GI NM specs. Got me another project comin' soon if things work out as planned.:p

If you talk nice to me, I'll sell you this one.... :neener:

1911Tuner
December 7, 2005, 03:04 PM
If you talk nice to me, I'll sell you this one.... :neener:

Ai'ght..I'll give 5 bucks and pay shippin'.:p

If the hood is still a close fit in the slide/breechface area, it may be salvageable and serviceable in certain guns. it probably won't give up top performance...but still possible to refit it to a beater. How do the lug depths look?

Mossyrock
December 8, 2005, 01:24 PM
Ai'ght..I'll give 5 bucks and pay shippin'.:p

If the hood is still a close fit in the slide/breechface area, it may be salvageable and serviceable in certain guns. it probably won't give up top performance...but still possible to refit it to a beater. How do the lug depths look?

The lug depths measure thusly:

Depth of rear locking lug: .0321"
Depth of forward locking lug: .0485"

Please take a close look at the lugs in the pictures and let me know what you think....

1911Tuner
December 8, 2005, 07:19 PM
If by the rearward lug, you mean the first face forward of the chamber...the one without a slot behind it....032 means that it has been cut down to about 60% of its original height. Not good. If you mean the middle one, it's still at about 60% but will engage to a little less depth than that due to the barrel tilt in lockup.
You may get 50% depth. The forward lug at .048 is just a bit shy of full height, and will provide a little less percentage than the middle lug.
Maybe about 85% of full depth.

The lugs are numbered from chamber end to muzzle 1-2-3. #1 is the strongest and most supported lug...IF...it's the one bearing the horizontal thrust forces. Because it's at 60% of original height, that strength will be 40% less assuming that it vertically engages as high as it can go. Dimensions of the first slide lug may reduce that. Many smiths fit the barrel to bear horizontally on the #1 lug only, which will suffice if full vertical depth and overlap are there, but the lockup won't be as strong or as lasting as it could be with the other ones sharing the load.

Going by your measurements and assuming that they're accurate...the barrel is best deployed as a horrible reminder that files do not a pistolsmith make.
From the looks of things, whoever "fitted" the barrel didn't have enough clearance in linkdown and went at the top of the lugs with a mill file.

You can probably turn it into a gauge to determine the distance from breechface to the #3 lug though...if you one day decide to fit one with equalized lugs. Other than that, it's killed.

HighVelocity
December 8, 2005, 07:33 PM
Ouch. I read the ebay description and the seller didn't describe it very well at all. In fact, I'd say his description was false.

MICHAEL T
December 10, 2005, 02:01 AM
Do you think he will give you a refund . Remember not suppose to sell or buy gun parts on ebay. I won't buy a thing off ebay to anti gun.for my taste.

Mossyrock
December 10, 2005, 10:49 AM
You can buy any and all gun parts on Ebay...just no complete firearms and no receivers.

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