[brekneb]

What is an action?--Is it the combination of the bolt and receiver?--Like when you hear; 'Remington 700 action' or 'the action on an FAL' etc. I don't mean in terms of bolt action, lever action, pump action, etc
What is a receiver?
what is the function of a receiver--just to cycle a bolt?
How is a barrel connected to a receiver--threading?
What is a free floated firing pin?
What's lapping mean
Should you have a newly purchased gun regardless of whether new or used checked over by a smith prior to using?
Receiver bedding? What is that? How does it differ from gun to gun?
Now one question I'm really unsure of:
Damage the gun by rapid-fire? Does this just cause over heating and loss of accuracy or does it actually cause problems?
Heard something about the rifling being screwed up--but would you have to be shooting heavy, sustained, continuous fire mag after mag in order to do anything like that? Such as melting the barrel on a LMG for military in combat? So for instance, dumping a mag as quick as you can pull
the trigger wouldn't do anything bad? As long as it's only occasional? What about this kind of practice time after time doing it over and over in the long term though?
Thanks I'm just a newb with lots of gun questions starting out.
I don't know if this is a lot of questions in a single post if it is tell me so it won't happen in the future.
Thanks again

[esheato]

Scoob...I'm supposed to be in bed, but I've got to help ya out man. ;)

What is an action?--Is it the combination of the bolt and receiver?--Like when you hear; 'Remington 700 action' or 'the action on an FAL' etc. I don't mean in terms of bolt action, lever action, pump action, etc
See the next answer.
What is a receiver?
Take a rifle and assuming there are no optics mounted on it....remove the stock and barrel. What you have left is the action. It's the main operating part of the weapon. Now if you were to remove the bolt, and all the other small intricate parts of the action, what you would end up with is the reciever (the large main part of the action) and all the other parts that make a gun work.

what is the function of a receiver--just to cycle a bolt?
Yes, whether it's manually operated bolt action or a semi or fully automatic. Also to contain the remaining firing components of the gun.

How is a barrel connected to a receiver--threading?
Depends on the gun. Bolt/lever actions are threaded.

What is a free floated firing pin?
I'm not sure myself. ;)

What's lapping mean
Metal surfaces are mated together typically with a gritty compound to ensure they fit together properly. As in the term, lapped scope rings.

Should you have a newly purchased gun regardless of whether new or used checked over by a smith prior to using?
You can if you want to but it's not necessary or advised. You should clean it before you shoot it the first time though.

Receiver bedding? What is that? How does it differ from gun to gun?
Picture a bolt action gun sitting in a wood stock. Where that stock contacts the action and barrel effects the accuracy of the gun. One way to correct that is to free float the barrel...in essence relieve the stock so that it doesn't touch the barrel at all. At that point you need a solid point of contact before the barrel starts to support it. Soooo...you bed the action. Typically fiberglass is inserted in a gooey paste under the front portion of the action and allowed to harden creating a bedded action.

Now one question I'm really unsure of:
Damage the gun by rapid-fire? Does this just cause over heating and loss of
accuracy or does it actually cause problems?
Heard something about the rifling being screwed up--but would you have to be shooting heavy, sustained, continuous fire mag after mag in order to do anything like that? Such as melting the barrel on a LMG for military in combat? So for instance, dumping a mag as quick as you can pull the trigger wouldn't do anything bad? As long as it's only occasional? What about this kind of practice time after time doing it over and over in the long term though?
In reference to pistol and shotgun...you really can't do to much damage. Rifles, especially ones you're trying to keep accurate, need time to cool down. If the barrel is to hot to touch, you need to take a break and let it cool down. Heavy and light machine guns are made to have swappable parts so that barrels can be replaced every so many rounds.

I hope this helps.

Ed

[brekneb]

So an action includes the receiver, trig, bolt, etc?
The receiver on an auto rifle then? How's it connected to the barrel?
Does the bedding material for a receiver need to be replaced like with a barrel or at least not as often?
So in specific to a high caliber rifle like a 30 caliber--it just shouldn't be shot to crap (beyond the barrel heating)
So basically as long you don't over heat it or you just don't shoot beyond the point where's it become a little too hot you're fine?--How many rounds in how much time would that generally take?
So why then no concern on a pistol in terms of both heating and damage? Is it that a pistol round doesn't generate all that much heat anyway and that what heat it does generate doesn't affect accuracy much as pistols aren't precision anyway (when compared to rifles)
I'm just a noob and want to know to what limits I can take guns, for instance.
Just don't wanna screw things up--hence the rapid fire related questions--cuz I do every now and then want to let the lead fly.
Thanks again I think my questions have pretty well been answered.
I appreciate your time and input.
Get some sleep.

[esheato]

No rest for the wicked Scoob. I'm off to the ski resort...opening weekend ya know. ;)

So an action includes the receiver, trig, bolt, etc?
Yes.
The receiver on an auto rifle then?
The reciever is the same on an auto rifle. The charging handle is the equivalent of the bolt on a bolt action rifle.
How's it connected to the barrel?
Depends on the gun. Auto barrels would be replaced much sooner due to the cyclic rate and the heat generated so I'm assuming that it would be a quick and easy method rather than threaded.
Does the bedding material for a receiver need to be replaced like with a barrel or at least not as often?
A bedding job is typically for the life of that barrel. If you replace the barrel, odds are that the new barrel has a different shape (in rifle speak it's called contour). A lot of time you can scrape the bedding out and do it again if you like. Although, n a wood stock you run the risk of ruining it.
So in specific to a high caliber rifle like a 30 caliber--it just shouldn't be shot to crap (beyond the barrel heating)
A battle rifle, I'd shoot the crap out of it. That's what it was designed to do. A precision rig doesn't get shot to that point. Put it this way, if you want to maintain it's accuracy, don't shoot it to hell and back. ;)
So basically as long you don't over heat it or you just don't shoot beyond the point where's it become a little too hot you're fine?
Pretty much...how hot you get it is up to you. Remember, you're talking about barrel steel which is very hard and manufactured with all those factors in mind. It will take a lot of abuse before you have problems or a degradation in accuracy.
How many rounds in how much time would that generally take?
What cartridge? How much propellant will be burning? What barrel contour? Thick or thin? Outside temperature? All of these factors determine how fast that barrel heats up.
So why then no concern on a pistol in terms of both heating and damage? Is it that a pistol round doesn't generate all that much heat anyway and that what heat it does generate doesn't affect accuracy much as pistols aren't precision anyway (when compared to rifles)
There is a significant difference between shooting a person or a paper target at ten yards versus shooting a deer at 200 or a squirrel at 500 yards.

I think you've got this figured out. ;)

Ed

[brekneb]

Okay thanks yet again esheato I owe you.
I'd be curious to know what others think?
This place rocks

[grimlock]

The main reason that people worry more about barrels getting too hot from rapid fire in rifles and not pistols and shotguns is that centerfire rifles tend to generate a lot more heat and pressure when fired.

I'd amend the charging handle explanation to say that the charging handle on a semi-auto is a lot like the bolt handle on a bolt action, with some differences. Both of them are used to reciprocate the bolt, but a charging handle may be fixed to the bolt, so that it moves when the weapon is fired, or it may stay in place, like on an AR15.

[iamkris]

scoob i e

Take a look here...not a bad, basic overview
http://www.remington.com/safety/online_courses/cbc_begin.asp

Also, I'd recommend getting on the NRA and taking a Basic Rifle Course...will explain many things plus the advantage of getting decent basic marksmanship training.

The answers you got weren't bad...a few additional bits of info:

How's it connected to the barrel?
There are multiple methods to connect a barrel to a receiver...while threading directly to the receiver is the most common, they can be a press fit, held in with a wedge, held in with a threaded nut, riveted to a trunnion, welded, locked in with lugs, etc, etc.

What is a free floated firing pin?
The firing pin is free to "float" inside the bolt versus being held by spring pressure. In my experience, this most often is the design in military rifles (e.g., SKS, AR, Garand)

[Jim Watson]

I'll try to add a little.

Receiver:
1. Some rifles have two-piece receivers. You will hear references to AR15 and FN-FAL "uppers" and "lowers."
2. The receiver is legally the firearm. Order a bare receiver to have a custom rifle built and you will have to sign for it just as though it were a whole gun. It is the part with the serial number. In 1 above, the AR15 lower receiver is what counts, but it is the upper receiver of the FN-FAL that bears the number and is registered.

Barrel attachment:
Most rifle barrels are threaded into the receiver. Not all. The AR15 barrel slides into its aluminum upper reciever against a flange and is held by a large nut screwed over external threads on the receiver. A lot of .22s have barrels slip fitted and held by pins; or are just pressed in tightly. There are rifles out there with integral barrel and receiver, the whole thing machined out of one bar of steel. There are takedown and interchangeable barrel rifles with all manner of interrupted threads, lugs, bolts and whatnot.
Many shotgun barrels, as on a Remington 870 pump or 1100 auto, are held in place by the cap at the end of the magazine tube.
The barrel installation and bolting of double barrel shotguns (and rifles) is very widely varied, lots of different designs.

Barrel heat and wear:
Rifle barrels wear out from erosion by the hot (2500 deg F) powder gases flowing down the bore behind the bullet. A high rate of fire lets the metal get hot enough that powder flame erodes it more. Most military rifles have chrome plated bores to resist erosion. Their service life, including rapid fire at Iraquis is in the tens of thousands of rounds, when the only accuracy requirement is to be able to hit a man. A target rifle with stringent requirements will have a barrel life in the few thousands of shots. From 1200 for a 6.5x284 as is often shot at 1000 yards, to 5000 for a .223 or .308 shot "over the course." Many target rifle shooters replace their barrels annually just to be safe. A friend described shooting his M1A at a two day match with a well used barrel. Hits were good on Saturday, poor on Sunday with the same ammunition and no change in conditions. Later shooting confirmed that it was no longer accurate enough for competition. So he can tie down when that barrel was worn out to the actual day. Worn out for target shooting, that is. It would surely have fought many a battle if on an infantry weapon.

A good rifle for precison target shooting or mid to long range hunting should be shot slowly and let cool between targets. Once a minute is about as slow as I can stand. After a string of five or ten, I put it in the rack and shoot something else.

If you want to let the lead fly, shoot some cheap surplus gun to get it out of your system without burning out a good barrel.

[brekneb]

Hmmmm very good idea. So then I live in ********** unfortunately . . . Any ideas on a really dirt-cheap bottom of the barrel POS that is automatic? Is there such a thing as a legal SKS in CA with the non pistol grip type stock?--What's that type of grip referred to as? (The type of grip such as commonly seen on a hunting bolt action) Or is it legal to purchase the SKS rifle itself and drop it into an aftermarket stock that's **** legal? 'Cuz yeah that sounds good--get one to blast the crap out of then one for more refined work. Note; I'm wanting to buy an M1A/M14 so yeah don't want to shoot that into the ground.
If not an SKS what of an AK or Cetme/Century Arms, etc?--Any of those possible to be configured into Cal legal?
And if none of the above mentioned rifles what option would I have for an auto (other than Mini 14's/30's)
Thanks a lot




If you want to let the lead fly, shoot some cheap surplus gun to get it out of your system without burning out a good barrel.

[Jim Watson]

Sorry, I don't know the law in the Schwartzenegger Reich and cannot advise on a centerfire plinker available there.

[brekneb]

Okay thanks regardless.
One more thing I left out; beyond the barrel does rapid fire cause any problems for the rest of the rifle? Any of the other components that is?

[MatthewVanitas]

There is basically one gun for you: SKS

Unfortunately, the absolute cheapest SKSs ($79) are the Yugoslav 59/66, which are not CA legal due to their having a grenade launcher, etc. But there are wholesalers who either convert 59/66s or sell other CA-legal variants of the SKS, usually around $150 or so. Figure on around $15 or so for shipping, and I believe Big5 and a few other stores will do FFL transfers for $25 or so.

There are quite a few threads on THR regarding CA-legal SKS, so you can use the "Search" button at the top of your screen.

Your only other CA-legal options would be random oddballs like a Rashid, Hakim, etc., until you get to around the $450 price level where the Kel-Tec SU16-CA and new Auto-Ordnance M1 Carbines show up.

Good luck in your search, -MV

[brekneb]

Thanks a lot MV alright the SKS such is what I figured I'll do the search like you recommended. Just needed to get pointed in the right direction; which you did for me thanks. Really $450 $500 or $600 I don't consider a lot for a rifle so if you're saying roughly $450 that's bones bare cheap for me even if they are POS's :) And for a quality assault/battle rifle $2,000 really isn't even a lot for me. I just recognize such things are the expected cost and nothing much can be done about it. Plus when you realize what else you can get for $2,000 the decision becomes all that much easier. Anyway. Something like this; An SKS for instance, is a rifle I'd want just to run into the ground with. While I wouldn't necessarily abuse it I wouldn't either care for it as well as I would something else. Just need a fun plinker (high caliber at that) to blast with let loose. So again thanks I'll look in that direction now.

There is basically one gun for you: SKS

Your only other CA-legal options would be random oddballs like a Rashid, Hakim, etc., until you get to around the $450 price level where the Kel-Tec SU16-CA and new Auto-Ordnance M1 Carbines show up. Good luck in your search,-MV

[brekneb]

Ah and thanks again to everyone else whom responded I appreciate it always.

[MatthewVanitas]

If cost isn't a huge issue, you might want to take another look at a couple other options:

http://www.kel-tec.com/images/SU-16CA.jpg

Kel-Tec SU-16CA: Takes M16 magazines, runs around $450 or so, various high-speed accessories and optics mountable. Vaguely related to the AR-18/G-36 family. Lots of reviews of this up on THR.

http://www.auto-ordnance.com/images/aom110.jpg

M1 Carbine: CA-legal, .30 Carbine isn't as cheap as .223, but not too terrible. Very handy and compact, historically cool, etc. Maybe $500ish, depending where you look.

But if you want a CA-legal dirt-cheap plinker, go SKS. -MV

[esheato]

The answers you got weren't bad.

Weren't bad? I resent that. :neener: :D

Ed

[walking arsenal]

Take a rifle and assuming there are no optics mounted on it....remove the stock and barrel. What you have left is the action. It's the main operating part of the weapon. Now if you were to remove the bolt, and all the other small intricate parts of the action, what you would end up with is a really nifty paper weight/conversation piece. I.E "Bob, what the heck you got holding down that memo"?:D

[MachIVshooter]

One more thing I left out; beyond the barrel does rapid fire cause any problems for the rest of the rifle? Any of the other components that is?

Generally speaking, No. A bit more on barrel heating, though.

There are several things that can happen when a barrel becomes too hot. The first will be a wandering zero. Meaning; as the barrel heats up, the steel expands. Due to imperfections in the forging of the steel (no matter how high quality), it will not expand 100% evenly and will "warp" temporarily. Generally, they will return to their original position once they cool. This is more true once the barrel has been "broken in" (gotten hot and cold a few times). However, if it gets hot enough, it may loose it's memory and become permanently deformed.

The bigger problem with overheating is at the chamber. As metals heat up, they become more malleable. Rifle cartridges generally run between 50,000 and 65,000 PSI. That's a lot of pressure. So continuous firing of high-pressure cartridges in a very hot chamber will deform it, usually at the throat where the force and heat is concentrated. This is commonly referred to as throat erosion. Once this happens, accuracy will suffer because the bullet will not enter the bore correctly and may be partially swaged or otherwise deformed. The only fix is to cut off a short length at the rear of the barrel and rechamber it. Many varmint shooters have to do this regularly, as they shoot a great deal of rounds and super-velocity cartridges are harder on barrels. I know a couple guys who have to rechamber every year and buy a new tube every 3-4 years.

Basically, if you are shooting a spray and pray autoloader, accuracy is not too much of a concern. But you can still severely damage a barrel if you run a half-dozen 30-rounders through it as fast as possible. I would say feel free to unload a magazine rapid-fire, but allow the gun to cool awhile before the next mag.

Happy shooting!

[brekneb]

Okay thanks yet again everyone. And at the end of this thread I am pretty much going to buy a junk gun just to shoot the #$*! out of and something else for more 'proper' shooting. Thanks once more.

[esheato]

scoob,

Like you really needed an excuse to buy more than one gun? ;)

Ed

[MatthewVanitas]

So which is the "junk" gun and which is the "proper" gun?

Mind, you certainly can't go wrong buying a .22LR for either of those options. Easy on the budget, easy on the training, etc.

Let us know whatever you end up getting; maybe post some pics and a range report if you feel like sharing.

[brekneb]

scoob,

Like you really needed an excuse to buy more than one gun? ;)

Ed
Hah ha yeah I know but I'm the type that likes to try and keep it simple . . . I'll try to limit how many I get--make sure I have a purpose. Like for example a 9mm cheapie like a 92f for pure range usage; cheap rounds cheap gun. Can get 9mm, it seems, cheaper and in huger surplus bulk than most other defensive pistol rounds. Plus I'd never use anything less than a cartidge starting with .4 for a defensive round

So which is the "junk" gun and which is the "proper" gun?

Mind, you certainly can't go wrong buying a .22LR for either of those options. Easy on the budget, easy on the training, etc.

Let us know whatever you end up getting; maybe post some pics and a range report if you feel like sharing.

Ed
The junker would be an SKS, AK, CETME, (even an AR if it's a cheap enough clone) ETC--so long as all were in the manufacture/model/configuration range that kept em under $600 or so.
The proper one would be essentially anything in the $1,000+ range
So therefore I'd not have much concern over letting loose with something under $500 basically.
Yep .22 LR bar none most affordable round out there, just about. But I'm a recoil junky and so would want something in .30 caliber LOL
I'll post perhaps, I'm just a long ways off from actually getting anything, gots lots of researching left.
Thanks again for all the responses

[esheato]

Hah ha yeah I know but I'm the type that likes to try and keep it simple . . . I'll try to limit how many I get--make sure I have a purpose.
Riiight...I've heard that before. ;) Just in case you better buy a bigger safe..ya know, just in case of emergencies.

Ed

[brekneb]

he he he . . .

[NineseveN]

Hey Scoob,

One thing on rapid fire, while it is fun and it does tend to get the stress out, keep in mind, it can be dangerous if you don't pay attention to what you're doing. I always said I would not fire faster, nor slower than I could aim. after years of patience, when folks see or hear me shoot my FAL, they say, "there's no way you hit your target! What a waste of ammo".

When I bring back my paper with the 8-10 ring blown out, they tend to hush up about what I can and cannot do.

The trick is, start slow, work your way up...find a rhythm. Work on your basic rifle and marksman skills (trigger discipline, breathing etc...).

Of course, during your training in these areas, it is quite acceptable to bump off a few mags during a break. :D

Good shooting and welcome to THR.

[brekneb]

The trick is, start slow, work your way up...find a rhythm. Work on your basic rifle and marksman skills (trigger discipline, breathing etc...).
Of course, during your training in these areas, it is quite acceptable to bump off a few mags during a break. :D
Good shooting and welcome to THR.
Yeah, the rhythm thing letting em off as fast as accurately possible yet still not as slow as dire deliberateness of long distance bolt shooting. Seems it'd be more satisfying in a way opposed to undisciplined-nearly-full-auto-chatter-S-Auto-fire LOL But yeah I still wanna's just rip loose on occasion. Which as I said is the reason for a crap gun. And yeah I don't wanna' program myself to throw shots away either.
Thanks

[poppy]

Wow Scoob, with your definition of junker (anything under $600), why educate yourself? Just start buying guns and try them all. Most of my firarms were purchased for less than $400, some between $400 and $500, and only a couple between $500 and $600. Most of them, I would never consider parting with and very few are junker, so I guess we all come from different places.

Just kidding about the education thing. You have asked questions that many are afraid to ask, and you have gotten good answers from knowledgeable people. It is one of the things that impresses me about this board. poppy

[benEzra]

Hmmmm very good idea. So then I live in ********** unfortunately . . . Any ideas on a really dirt-cheap bottom of the barrel POS that is automatic? Is there such a thing as a legal SKS in CA with the non pistol grip type stock?--What's that type of grip referred to as? (The type of grip such as commonly seen on a hunting bolt action) Or is it legal to purchase the SKS rifle itself and drop it into an aftermarket stock that's **** legal? 'Cuz yeah that sounds good--get one to blast the crap out of then one for more refined work. Note; I'm wanting to buy an M1A/M14 so yeah don't want to shoot that into the ground.
If not an SKS what of an AK or Cetme/Century Arms, etc?--Any of those possible to be configured into Cal legal?
And if none of the above mentioned rifles what option would I have for an auto (other than Mini 14's/30's)
Thanks a lot
Just for clarity of terminology, self-loading rifles are generally not referred to as "automatics," due to the high likelihood of being misunderstood (properly speaking, an automatic rifle is full-auto, like a military AK-47 or an M16, and all such are tightly restricted Title 2/Class III firearms under the National Firearms Act of 1934). It wouldn't be such a big deal except the gun prohibitionists are constantly trying to get the gullible to confuse the two. Terms more commonly used would be autoloaders, autoloading rifles, semi-autos, self-loading rifles, etc.--most anything but "automatic." Most people are getting away from that locution even for handguns, but it's more of an issue with rifles.

Practically all SKS's have traditional (1800's style) straight stocks, like those on many hunting rifles, unless the stock has been replaced. See photos here: http://www.surplusrifle.com/sks/index.asp.

My wife has a beautiful Russian SKS, made in 1952 at Tula. She paid $99 in 1996 or so, but I've seen them going for $350 and up in recent years. The current best deals are the Yugoslavian SKS's, though I've also seen some decent-looking Romanian SKS's for good prices. See the SKS link above for photos and descriptions.

Civilian AK lookalikes are great (I own one, a Romanian SAR-1), but the Kaliban have made all Kalashnikov-designed rifles verboten for their subjects, even the Saiga hunting rifles with their 5-round magazines and 1800's style straight stocks. So you're out of luck there. I don't know about CETME's, but I do know that your fearless leaders say nyet to any rifle with a protruding handgrip.

Mini-14's are also neat (I own one), but you are stuck with the straight stock and 10-round magazines, I think.


The trick is, start slow, work your way up...find a rhythm. Work on your basic rifle and marksman skills (trigger discipline, breathing etc...).
Good advice. The way the concept was presented to me was "Slow is smooth, and smooth is fast." i.e., build competency by going slow enough to do everything right, and speed will come naturally once you develop the skills.