[rick_reno]

Canada continues it's discriminatory ways - what about crack smokers and meth users? Apparently they're being left to fend for themselves in the cruel world of drug users.

http://www.breitbart.com/news/2005/12/06/051206131210.v3vagpmd.html

Health authorities in Canada's westernmost province want to make the country's first test facility for heroin injection permanent and are considering opening additional clinics to meet the huge demand. The Vancouver facility was set up in 2003, against US opposition, as a three-year experiment exempt from Canadian drug laws.

Since then the clinic, North America's only such operation, has run at capacity, with some 800 heroin injections daily.

"It's all-round positive, with no downsides," said Perry Kendall, British Columbia province's chief medical officer.

Kendall said the clinic achieved its goal to cut overdose deaths and rates of hepatitis and HIV infection. Although its exemption from drug laws will not expire until September 2006, this month he applied to Health Canada to make the facility permanent.

With a federal election currently underway in Canada, a decision will likely take months.

The clinic looks like an innocuous storefront in Vancouvers squalid Downtown Eastside district, Canada's most impoverished neighbourhood with more than 5,000 heroin addicts concentrated in a 10-block area.

Addicts bring in drugs purchased illegally on the street, and self-inject them under medical supervision. There are onsite emergency services in case of overdose and staff nurses and counselors to provide health care and referrals to rehabilitation facilities.

Worldwide, about 50 similar clinics operate routinely, mostly in Europe.

As in Europe, Canadian public opinion has changed to view drug addiction as a health issue instead of a purely criminal matter.

But drug issues here are affected by the proximity to the United States with its official war on drugs.

The Vancouver clinic is a stone's throw from the border with Washington state, and since it opened the White House has criticized it as an "inhumane" medical experiment.

The United States also opposes a new experiment in Vancouver to give addicts free prescription heroin in hopes of reducing property crimes to feed their habit.

Ironically, the success of Vancouvers supervised heroin use site led to another controversy this month, as Vancouver police launched a crackdown on public drug use.

For years police have turned a blind eye in some areas to thousands of addicts shooting up on sidewalks, streets and in public buildings such as libraries, and leaving behind used syringes.

Police now say because addicts can use the supervised facility, they will be stopped from injecting in public.

"The police recognize drug addiction as a health issue... but police must step in when the addicts' activities interfere with other people's lives," police said in a statement.

"Children should be able to use (park playground) swings and not have to worry about pricking themselves with needles buried in the sand," said police Inspector Bob Rolls.

Advocates for drug users protested that the police crackdown is cruel because the clinic can only serve a minority of drug users.

"It's just a really destructive thing," said Ann Livingston of the Vancouver Area Network of Drug Users.

She notes that the supervised site can handle just 800 of 15,000 heroin injections daily, and staff are prohibited from physically injecting addicts or letting other addicts inject incapacitated users.

There's also no place for addicts who smoke cocaine, said Livingston.

Livingston called for a relaxation in clinic rules and the establishment of at least four more clinics in Vancouver.

Kendall agreed that the fact the police crackdown is causing an overflow at the injection site "may make an argument for opening up more sites."

[TheEgg]

"It's all-round positive, with no downsides," said Perry Kendall, British Columbia province's chief medical officer.

Hmmmmm -- my dark and cynical side makes me think of the movie "Equilibrium".

[wingnutx]

Hardly a perfect solution, but better than the current gutting of the Constitution that the WOD entails.

[mbs357]

Well. My reasoning would be:
Why do gangs fight?
For territory?
What do they do with the territory?
Sell drugs?
So making drugs legal would take gangs' reason to fight from them.
Of course it's never that simple...

[Camp David]

Canada continues it's discriminatory ways... with some 800 heroin injections daily.

Actually if they offered heroin "injection sites" right in the middle of a busy major freeway the net result would be identical. :rolleyes:

[Azrael256]

my dark and cynical side makes me think of the movie "Equilibrium". I thought the same thing. After the first sentence or so, I couldn't help but see "Prozium II" instead of heroin.

[NCP24]

Well. My reasoning would be:
Why do gangs fight?
For territory?
What do they do with the territory?
Sell drugs?
So making drugs legal would take gangs' reason to fight from them.
Of course it's never that simple... Interesting thought. My guess is they would simply substitute one deviant behavior for another.

[hso]

Cheaper and safer to have government run drug use facilities and government provided drugs than to have street drug use and the criminal infrastructure to support it.

[buy guns]

Canada continues it's discriminatory ways - what about crack smokers and meth users? Apparently they're being left to fend for themselves in the cruel world of drug users.



thats not quite the same. from the article it seems the main purpose of the facility is to stop people from shooting up in public because they leave used needles lying around which could give innocent bystanders HIV.

thats not a problem with smoking crack or meth. though you could shoot up meth but im sure they would let you do it at the heroin place.

[Kurush]

If you're interested in the heroin addiction problem I highly recommend the film "methodonia", which follows several members of a heroin support group as they try (and mostly fail) to get off of heroin and methodone. Also show it to your kids if you suspect they might be exposed to people experimenting with hard drugs.

[Cosmoline]

If the arms are no good, try the rear end or the legs!

[spacemanspiff]

i may be wrong on this, so please correct me if i am, but one of my liberal friends talked about some places in europe actually GIVING the drugs away for free. supposedly this takes away all the stress addicts go through to obtain the drugs, and they supposedly do not engage in criminal behavior to get their next fix.
:scrutiny:

[TallPine]

Does anyone see the irony in this ......?

Canada bitches about our "loose gun laws" in the US,

while ...

The US govt bitches about Canada's "loose drug policy"

:rolleyes:

[ArmedBear]

Does anyone see the irony in this ......?

Canada bitches about our "loose gun laws" in the US,

while ...

The US govt bitches about Canada's "loose drug policy"

:rolleyes:

http://www.gunsanddope.com/AnnieAnimated.gif

http://www.gunsanddope.com/

[agricola]

Interesting thought. My guess is they would simply substitute one deviant behavior for another.

probably, but the WSOD has been so profitable most of them have focused on that, rather than the more traditional rackets. a full legalization of all drugs would be the biggest kicking organized crime will have recieved ever - they wouldnt know what to do with themselves any more.

[rick_reno]

i may be wrong on this, so please correct me if i am, but one of my liberal friends talked about some places in europe actually GIVING the drugs away for free. supposedly this takes away all the stress addicts go through to obtain the drugs, and they supposedly do not engage in criminal behavior to get their next fix.
:scrutiny:

They were doing this in Switzerland when I lived there. Not sure how it worked out in the long run - I moved back to the States. Lots of the users were very aprehensive about it and drugs we're still for sale on the streets. It appeared to reduce the petty crimes they were using to support their habits, but it didn't eliminate them. They still commited crimes to raise money, and simply used the money for other things than dope.

[Turkey Creek]

If people want to do stupid and dangerous things, I don't think it's the governments job to help them do it-

[Lucky]

This is going to sound bad, but in dirty situations you have to be pragmatic.

What's the problem? The dirty needles, bums lying around everywhere, entire area of the city basicly unuseable, robbery by users needing money, etc.

What's the solution? #1)Kill them all. Write a law, and kill everyone who uses heroin. Sound brutal, but you have to admit it solves the problem. Unfortunately it sets a bad precedent. #2)Arrest them all, write a law and arrest them all. However, now you will have to provide medical treatment as well as jail/rehabilitation, and the cost per invididual will be almost as much as buying each of them a luxury car, every year. #3)Give them the heroin. This costs a bit of money for the heroin and distribution process, but it's peanuts compared to #2. Pro's are that you control all needles. This means that there are less needles on the street (literally), and less blood-born diseases. Less blood born pathogens is a benefit to EVERYONE who works in the country, especially people like nurses and police officers, for their safety. As well less transmitted diseases means less hospital bills with incredibly expensive pharmaceuticals to treat stuff like AIDS or Hepatitis C. Also, you have less crime because the junkies are stoned and motionless. This means that less people are robbed, which benefits the economy by reducing insurance rates. As well, the police have more time to devote to other tasks. Furthermore, the entire area may become more hospitable, and business may improve. Lastly by giving the drugs away you might be able to get some people to kick the habit, and become less of a burden on society, maybe they even contribute, or they go live in the forest and just stop hassling other people.

The cons? It's hypocritical, and probably a few others. Some people who would have died years before might live a long time mooching clean drugs fromt he gov't. But again, compared to the cost of pharmaceutical drugs, it's nothing.

[scout26]

I have an addiction to shooting (mostly shotguns), where do I go to get my free government ammo to support my addiction ???

[TrybalRage]

my dark and cynical side makes me think of the movie "Equilibrium".

I thought the same thing. After the first sentence or so, I couldn't help but see "Prozium II" instead of heroin.

You guys too, huh?

[Standing Wolf]

It might be easier to list the activities the government of Canada isn't involved in.

[MD_Willington]

And people wonder why I would never move back to BC from WA :rolleyes:

I guess when you grow up in a town where chasing the dragon and shooting up is going on all over you kind of get sick and tired of running into total losers that would rob you blind for their next fix...

Personally I'd stick cyanide in every once of heroin that was going into a shooters den like that and blame the result on an OD...

:banghead:

[Glock Glockler]

This is a good start for Canada, it would actually be better if they gave herion to addicts provided that 1) they are already addicts, and 2) that they agree not to commit any crimes while on the program or they risk being expelled from it. If an addict doesnt have to fuel the drug trade the black market for them takes a dive.

[mbs357]

Interesting thought. My guess is they would simply substitute one deviant behavior for another.
Most likely. =/
Instead of drugs they'd be selling......illegal...anime DVDs? >_>

[romma]

Well it's nice to know that some of my fellow gunnies would just assume to see me dead. I myself am a recovering addictwho has been clean for close to 12 years now. maybe some of you might keep in mind that for at least some addicts, there is a way out... And we do become productive members of society like anyone else... ;)

[Beren]

Romma,

Congrats on getting clean and staying clean. It's hard work, whether the drug is illegal like heroin or legal like alcohol.

Drug use SHOULD be viewed only as a health issue, not a criminal issue. What someone pumps into their own freaking body is their own damn business. It's their body to ruin if they choose to do so, the only restriction being they do it in a way that does not reasonable risk unwanted harm to another person.

I applaud Canada for considering more injection sites. Here's hoping they go for it.

[mbs357]

Well it's nice to know that some of my fellow gunnies would just assume to see me dead. I myself am a recovering addictwho has been clean for close to 12 years now. maybe some of you might keep in mind that for at least some addicts, there is a way out... And we do become productive members of society like anyone else... ;)

Of course! Congrats on your cleanliness. But then again there are some people who just don't want help, or just can't be helped. I believe I know one. =(

Romma,

Congrats on getting clean and staying clean. It's hard work, whether the drug is illegal like heroin or legal like alcohol.

Drug use SHOULD be viewed only as a health issue, not a criminal issue. What someone pumps into their own freaking body is their own damn business. It's their body to ruin if they choose to do so, the only restriction being they do it in a way that does not reasonable risk unwanted harm to another person.

I applaud Canada for considering more injection sites. Here's hoping they go for it.

Agreed. +1

[rudolf]

Remember what happened when alcohol was prohibited? Folks drank anyway, but crime rose.
See what happens when guns are prohobited? More crime.
Now what makes you believe prohibiting drugs leads to anything else than more crime.

Saying that prohibiting drugs will keep people from using them is the same ill logic as wanting to prohibit guns so people won't use them.

Over 20 years ago Milton Friedman, a coservative economist, already pledged for the legalization of drugs. The BIG problem with drugs is not what they do to those who takes them. It's the huge profits, and those who make those profits becoming a part of our economy and politics.

[TMAS]

Hey, I'm fine with the "do your own thing as long as it doesn't hurt anyone else". But, after these addict's who don't want help, or can't get off the stuff, who's supposed to support them? What about all the little crack babies and every other bad thing that happens as a result of their lack of self control.

Am I supposed to feel sorry for the junki, because his brain is fried and he can't hold a job? I'm not buying into it. I don't think myself and millions of others should be saddled with the burden of these people because of their self inflicted habits.

I wouldn't mind seeing our junki's flee to Canada for free drugs. I do feel sorry for the honest Canadians who are forced to deal with it.

[goosegunner]

I'm not buying into it. I don't think myself and millions of others should be saddled with the burden of these people because of their self inflicted habits.


You will be 'saddled with the burden' anyway, the only thing that is different is if it costs you money directly or indirectly by the way they live/die. Even if you do nothing you still have to pay for removing dead addicts from the street. If you live in a society you won't get away whatever you do. You have to find a compromise that serves the most important purposes.

*You, is ment in the collective form.