[btkilla]

i am about ready to buy a .50 caliber lyman plainsrifle to hunt deer with ,but im not sure whether to get the 1 in 60'' twist or the model with a 1 in 32'' twist. i really want to hunt with modern projectiles but still be able to use round balls if i ever go to a mountainman rendevous.anyone one know which rate of twist works best for both?

[eastwood44mag]

Long answer short is neither. Round balls do well at about 1:70 (IIRC), or so, while modern typically takes 1:32-1:28. Neither is going to give good performance with the other projectile.

[MNgoldenbear]

No personal experience. My understanding is that you have to go with the faster twist to stabilize "conicals" ("regular" bullets). I don't know if there is a major problem with shooting round balls through the faster twist, though.

[btkilla]

i would be happy if i got even moderate accurracy with round balls from the faster twist because i dont plan on usiung them for hunting,so what if i shot them through a 1 in 32'' inch rate of twist but reduced my powder load? would this help at all

[stevelyn]

Are round balls good?

The round ball will do anything that needs doing. If it couldn't, Indians and grizzly bears would still own the North American continent. You just have to shoot and hunt within its range limitations.

I have a .54 Lyman GPR with the 1:60 barrel. I plan on using it for moose next year.
If you are going to get a .50 get the 1:32 barrel and shoot the conicals.

[berettashotgun]

Are round balls good. HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAAH:neener: Funniest thing I've read in print in awhile. Round lead muzzle loading projectiles have be surpassed in performance sometime in the late 1700's by the minnie projectiles. Round balls(:p ) were/are much faster/easier to make fireside.

[redneck]

I've got a .54 great plains rifle with the slow twist barrel. Its very accurate with round ball out to 100 yards, probably alot farther, but I haven't gotten the chance to try it. The POI doesn't really change too much between 50 and 100 yards either, it still has a good bit of steam left at 100.
I've tried shooting TC 435 grain buffalo bullets out of it and was pleasantly surprised to find that it still shoots fairly accurately out to 50 yards. They do keyhole a little bit at that range, but still hit fairly close to where the round ball does.
Personally I just use ball ammo for everything, but if you were planning on hunting somewhere that garaunteed short range shots, you might do OK with the slow twist barrel and buffalo bullets.

Another option is that Lyman sells aftermarket barrels in the different twist rates. Its a hooked breech design and barrels can be swapped in a matter of seconds. You could buy the rifle with a slow twist barrel, and buy a fast twist barrel to go with it. I think the aftermarket barrels are in the white, so you would have to give rust brownign or cold bluing a try, but its not that difficult to do.

[kid_couteau]

If ya wanna find out send me a couple of bucks for shipping and I will send you some 50 cal round balls I casted for mine

Kid

[btkilla]

ty redneck i never thought about getting a barrel for both.:]

[Oldnamvet]

25 years ago T/C tried to keep everyone happy by making barrels with a 1 in 48 twist. I had one. They do OK with both round balls and conicals. Not great but OK. Getting a barrel specifically for both seems the best idea.

[kentucky bucky]

Are round balls good. HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAAH:neener: Funniest thing I've read in print in awhile. Round lead muzzle loading projectiles have be surpassed in performance sometime in the late 1700's by the minnie projectiles. Round balls(:p ) were/are much faster/easier to make fireside.


"Sometimes it's better to be silent and thought a fool than to open your mouth and remove the doubt."....Mark Twain...sometime in the late 1800's......

:neener: :neener: :neener:

[Sunray]

"...surpassed in performance sometime in the late 1700's by the minnie projectiles..." Um, no. The Minie ball(not a ball at all, but a conical hollow based bullet) was first introduced in 1847 by Claude Étienne Minié (1814? - 1879), a captain in the French Army.
Round balls, while they work just fine at close range, aren't as accurate as a conical bullet. They require patching too.
Your Lyman rifle is designed for conical bullets, as I recall.

[Vern Humphrey]

No personal experience. My understanding is that you have to go with the faster twist to stabilize "conicals" ("regular" bullets). I don't know if there is a major problem with shooting round balls through the faster twist, though.

Round balls, because of their short bearing surface, will strip the rifling with faster twists. You can partially compensate for this with a reduced powder charge.

If you compare English and American rifles of the same era, you will find slow twists in the American rifles -- because they were designed to be used with heavy powder charges. English rifles have faster twists, but are very sensitive to powder charge and will not shoot well at higher velocities.

[kentucky bucky]

Roundballs lose their energy quicker than a conical of the same caliber due to their lighter weight and wind resistance, sectional density...yada,yada,yada... BUT within their range and capabilties they are devastating on game. People who study ballistic charts act like they are BB's, but the deer I've shot with roundballs don't know about ballistics they just fall dead. I've used moderate loads with my .54 that went through a deer and took a chunk the size of a golfball out of the exit wound. MY 2 cents.

KB

[charby]

My TC has a 1:48 twist and I have killed deer up to 100yards shooting ball and patch.

Charby

[smokemaker]

Claude Etienne Minie, contrary to popular belief, did not come up with the minie ball. He refined Captain Gustav Delvigne's primitive version of the expanding-in-bore bullet. Even Delvigne himself came up with a bullet with a hollow skirt that was blown out to engage the rifling before Minie inserted an Iron plug into that hollow base. In practice, the iron plug was problematic, and was removed from later designs, giving you Delvigne's last design of the bullet. But those two weren't the only guys working on a bullet for fast loading rifle muskets. Several other inventive minds we're working on similar ideas. H. H. Greener, Capt John Norton, William Metford, W. Prichett, and even an american, James Henry Burton were in on the minie ball. Furthermore, Minie had a cohort, Captian Tamisier. Minie got the credit because he was the first to get the concept into an issued rifle. Minie, in fact, didn't like that he recieved credit for the design, and tried to defer to the others, but it never caught on.

Back to round balls. They work very well on game if they aren't used at too far a range. Remember, the round ball in any caliber loses about 50% of it's muzzle energy at 100 yards. .50 and .54 round balls are awesomely devastating on deer out to 75 yards for the .50 and 100 yards for the .54. Yes, they require slow twist barrels to shoot best. Some people do get OK results with the comprimise twist barrel, say 1:48, but I never have.

[Hot brass]

Shot a golf ball at 100 yards with round ball, 50 cal. Would not hesitate to hunt with the round ball. The round ball has worked for hundreds of years.

[Rpriestlyjr]

I have a CVA Hawken .50 cal that is just as accurate with the round ball as it is with the maxi-hunter conicals. I sighted it in this year with the round balls and 100 gr. of RS, then switched to the conicals and didn't have to move the sights at all.
Conicals are made for superior performance on the intended targets, i.e. penetration, expansion, etc..., whereas the roundballs just hit.
BTW, the best deal I've ever seen was a T/C .50, .54, and 12 gauge left handed caplock that my cousin picked up in NC for less than $250 NIB. The thing had been on the rack for a long time in a gunshop because they just couldn't get a left handed buyer. Wanted to get rid of it.

[JMusic]

Actually I believe the greatest advantage at the time between a round ball and a mini was loading speed. Most armies used muskets to have a higher rate of fire sacraficing accuracy. The mini ball allowed for speed of loading in a rifled barrel. There was a recent test done with air rifles pellets verses round balls. Too my surprise the balls outshot some pellets. BC though will always lean toward conical bullet design at extended ranges. I had an old CVA in 45 cal that I shot nothing but round balls. I could kill blackbirds with it consistantly at 50 yards blowing them into several pieces.
Jim

[smokemaker]

JMusic, you are absolutely correct.

[drinks]

How many people shoot unround balls? :rolleyes:

[Vern Humphrey]

How many people shoot unround balls? :rolleyes:

I knew a fellow who had square balls, and he could barely walk.:what:

[longrifleman]

I've used a Penn. longrifle in .45 for a few years and so far have only killed 2 deer with it. Both were killed at about the same distance, paced at 90 yds.

A smallish doe was shot broadside and the ball went through two ribs, a through and through. She travelled about 50 yds before dropping. The second was a ten point buck shot in the chest, facing me. I found the ball under the skin on the right flank after travelling through about 26" of deer innards. He went about 80 yds.

For comparison, several years ago, I shot a big 4 point buck at about 30 yds with a .30-30 with 150 gr bullet at almost the exact same angle as the buck and found the slug under the skin on the right flank, after travelling through about 26" of innards.

From my experience, at least to 100 yds, round balls work as good as any other bullet.

[Lonestar.45]

I got a GPR kit for Christmas, with the 1:60 barrel. I plan to shoot rb out of it for deer, target, etc. It'll do fine with the right charge and under 100 yds.

However, if you're serious about shooting conicals, Lyman sells a 1:32 barrel that would just drop into your GPR, that way you'd have the best of both worlds. MidSouth has them for $125 but they're on backorder probably due to Christmas shopping.

http://www.midsouthshooterssupply.com/item.asp?sku=000156030266

[Carl N. Brown]

Them conical bullets are like those new fangled brass cartridges:
just a passing fad. Long live loose powder and round balls!

Back to thread: I have used a rifle with 1 in 48 inch twist for
years mostly off-hand target and got reasonable accuracy with
patched round ball and saboted bullet. If choosing one or the
other, it would be best to go for a twist specific to round ball
(1 in 66) or conical/saboted bullet (1 in 32). For reasons of
economy, I use round ball to 100 yards, then saboted bullets
from 100 meters to 200 meters. So the 1 in 48 compromise
works for me.