Wolf 7.62x39 on game?


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MCgunner
December 7, 2005, 10:41 AM
They sell this "hollow point for hunting" stuff. Wondered if anyone ever actually used this stuff on deer? I've shot ONE deer with a 7.62x39. I used a handload with the Sierra 135 grain "handgun hunter" designed for .30-30 velocities in a contender, which is about the velocity the SKS pushes it. That load did a good job, good expansion, total penetration. I'm not sure I wanna bother with this import hollowpoint stuff, but it shoots to the same point of aim as the surplus FMJ and is cheap. Just wondering if anyone had actually tried it?

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rbernie
December 7, 2005, 11:46 AM
Wolf hollow point ammo is not suitable for game hunting. It's really just open-tip ammo designed for paper-punching, and does not display the controlled-expansion terminal ballistics that we'd normally expect of hunting ammo. When Wolf calls it hunting ammo, what they're really trying to say is that it's suitable for hunting for fur, since it'll punch thru the critter like an icepick and not tear up the pelt. :rolleyes:

If you want to hunt for meat (deer, etc.) with Russian steel-cased ammo, use Wolf 154gr SP or Barnaul 125gr SP.

benEzra
December 7, 2005, 11:51 AM
Several Russian manufacturers (possibly Wolf also) make 150-grain softpoints that would probably be more suitable for deer than the Wolf 122-gr JHP. The 150's bring the ballistics up reasonably close to some .30-30 loads, I think.

rbernie
December 7, 2005, 12:31 PM
Here's what I've found out on the subject, using my chrono and both factory and handloaded ammo shot out of my SKS and 7.62x39 AR and my Marlin leverguns:


123gr-125gr 7.62x39 loads hit around 2350-2400fps at the muzzle from a 20" barrel.

150gr 7.62x39 loads step out at around 2050-2100fps at the muzzle from a 20" barrel.

125gr 30/30 loads move along at around 2500-2550fps at the muzzle from a 20" barrel.

150gr 30/30 loads move along at around 2200-2250fps at the muzzle from a 20" barrel.

In other words, the 30/30 brings an extra 150fps to the table for equivalent bullet weights. The 7.62x39 will gain some of that back on the far side of 150 yards due to the better ballistic coefficients of its spitzer bullets, but by 200 yards both are at their practical limit for humane one-shot drops on deer-sized game.

Yes, Corbon advertises a 150gr 7.62x39 load at 2300fps. Based solely on my own loading experiences with 7.62x39 in proper .3105-diameter barrels, I speculate that Corbon is either inflating their velocity ratings or is achieving this speed via moderate overpressure, extra-long open-throated test barrels, and by using undersized (308-caliber) bullets.

Starter52
December 7, 2005, 12:40 PM
I would suggest buying a box of Remington, Winchester or Federal ammunition. With all the money we spend on deer hunting the price of a box of USA-made ammo is a very small expense.

BIGPHIL
December 7, 2005, 09:56 PM
I used winchester soft points when hunting with an SKS. Check your state regulations on legal firearms and ammo. I know in GA you cant hunt with Military ammo. Yeah, you could get into a big debate about Wolf not being military ammo(hollow point, not FMJ), but would it even be worth it to go there with the DNR. Just my .02.

R.W.Dale
December 7, 2005, 10:03 PM
Wolf has a 154gr soft point load that is the cats meow my CZ 527 carbine loves the stuff, it chronographs out at just shy of 2200FPS.

http://i3.photobucket.com/albums/y96/krochus/Hpim0330.jpg

MCgunner
December 21, 2005, 09:05 AM
Here's what I've found out on the subject, using my chrono and both factory and handloaded ammo shot out of my SKS and 7.62x39 AR and my Marlin leverguns:


123gr-125gr 7.62x39 loads hit around 2350-2400fps at the muzzle from a 20" barrel.

150gr 7.62x39 loads step out at around 2050-2100fps at the muzzle from a 20" barrel.

125gr 30/30 loads move along at around 2500-2550fps at the muzzle from a 20" barrel.

150gr 30/30 loads move along at around 2200-2250fps at the muzzle from a 20" barrel.

In other words, the 30/30 brings an extra 150fps to the table for equivalent bullet weights. The 7.62x39 will gain some of that back on the far side of 150 yards due to the better ballistic coefficients of its spitzer bullets, but by 200 yards both are at their practical limit for humane one-shot drops on deer-sized game.

Yes, Corbon advertises a 150gr 7.62x39 load at 2300fps. Based solely on my own loading experiences with 7.62x39 in proper .3105-diameter barrels, I speculate that Corbon is either inflating their velocity ratings or is achieving this speed via moderate overpressure, extra-long open-throated test barrels, and by using undersized (308-caliber) bullets.

Thanks for all the replies. Yeah, I kinda figured that hollow point didn't look like it was worth much. Looked more like the hollow point in a 162 grain .30 caliber match bullet. That's why I asked. :D

I'll just stick to my 135 grain bullet. It shoots into about 6" at 200 yards, 3" at 100 for five shot groups. That's adequate. I hardly ever use the thing, though. I bought this SKS for 75 bucks from a guy. It had about the best trigger on any SKS I've ever felt, no creep! I used to order a lot of these things when I had an FFL. Seems like 1 out of 10 of 'em had a decent trigger. So, I went crazy buying a chote camo stock, scope mount and scope, case deflector/forend, five round mag, ambidextrous trigger (I shoot south paw), and cut off the bayonet lug. Got it all dressed up and by that time had over $200 in it. So, I wind up with a 9 lbs semi auto deer rifle. :rolleyes: Oh, well, you see this stuff in the catalogs and think "that's cheap! I gotta have one!" and order it. Before you know it, you've spent real money on a toy. All my hunting anymore is with my Remington M7 stainless in .308 winchester, an infinitely better rifle. I've got that SKS sighted in for my surplus stuff now, thought it'd make a good loaner rifle or something, but I've got two other rifles, one is a .257 Roberts old Remington short action M722, the other is a Savage 110 in 7 mag. I don't even need this thing as a loaner, so now it's just a fun range gun that's cheap to shoot.:cool:

Those Chrono results pretty much match my own. My 135 grainer is about 2150 fps or maybe it was closer to 2200, got it in my range notes, but too lazy to look it up. I sighted 3" high at 100 and it was on at 200. I wouldn't push that load past 200 cause the accuracy was marginal at that range and it's falling below 1000 ft lbs at that point.

I killed one small spike buck at 80 yards face on in the chest and out the rib cage, was a slight quartering angle. The thing jumped, ran about 150 yards and fell. I start to step out of the blind and it comes a pouring rain for about 15 minutes! So, the blood trail is gone. I gave up and walked back to my dirt bike to ride into camp and the thing is laying about 20 yards from my bike! ROFLMAO. But, I didn't like the fact the thing ran so far with a rather devistating looking lung shot. It wasn't even that large a deer. I've killed deer with the .30-30 that died right there. Maybe it was just a fluke, but I have more confidence in my other calibers.

RangerHAAF
December 21, 2005, 12:10 PM
Wolf hollowpoints are great. I've killed three deer with them and the deer have run no farther than 30 yards before going down. It's a short to medium range bullet and shot placement is just as important as velocity. Of course, here on this board there will always be critics who disparage their performance, but I would encourage you to try them before disregarding their efficacy in the field. They work nicely for me.

MCgunner
December 21, 2005, 01:14 PM
Wolf hollow points are great. I've killed three deer with them and the deer have run no farther than 30 yards before going down. It's a short to medium range bullet and shot placement is just as important as velocity. Of course, here on this board there will always be critics who disparage their performance, but I would encourage you to try them before disregarding their efficacy in the field. They work nicely for me.

Hmm, interesting! Did they leave a decent exit wound, like they expanded okay? Be nice if they would work. I might have to experiment with 'em in a water box or something. Anyway, I might not feel so bad about loaning it out, now, as a loaner. Hate to loan one of my more expensive guns, LOL!

Actually, I'm planning to build a permanent box blind, 12 ft tower, on my place, something comfortable. Been using a swivel seat tripod and bringing it home after season. If I get something comfy, there's lots of hog down there. I fall off in their wallows all the time when it's wet, friggin' critters! :D I'd put a nice, comfy desk chair in that blind that I could snooze in while I'm waiting. :D

But, they're quite nocturnal. I was thinking I might rig the SKS up with a night scope and call it a hog rifle. I'm not interested on a big 300 lb boar, nasty and a pain to clean. I just would be after the 100-200 lb sows or smaller meat hogs. I'm thinking the SKS should do one of those in just fine. That might be something I could use that rifle for and a night scope would look cool on it. :D Danged scope would be five times the cost of the gun, though. So, I might wind up with a red spot light. I already have a lit reticle scope on it which would help. Be a good critter to test those hollow points on, too. Danged things are a nuisance when they get into a field and rut it up. They're feral hogs, breed like friggin' rabbits. Even if the load didn't stop him, if I lost one it'd not be the big deal to me losing a deer would. Shooting hogs down here is more like rodent control, LOL!

RangerHAAF
December 22, 2005, 05:34 PM
Yes,

The exit wound was more than big enough; my index finger fit into it and the blood trail was good also.

MartinS
December 22, 2005, 08:00 PM
If the Wolf HP is made like the Wolf FMJ it will have the airspace in the nose and will be unstable enought to want to yaw quickly.

chestnut ridge
December 22, 2005, 08:37 PM
I have not tried the wolf hollow point on deer. I have punched holes in
several calf killing dogs with the wolf hp. It seemed to drop them quickly.
I think it must have some expansion, since the exit hole was large.

Crosshair
December 23, 2005, 02:06 AM
I have fired Wolf HP ammo into boxes of sand and recovered them. I do not know how it compares to flesh, but about 75% of the time, the bullet is flattened and had been 90 degrees to the direction of flight. A rather effective method of killing. The other 25% or so the noce of the bullet splits and peels back into several jaged edges. Most remain attacked to the core pf the bullet. The "peels" of the jacket are very sharp, I was cut by one while I was sifting through sand and I feel it would do the same to flesh as it passed through.

Gun Wielding Maniac
December 23, 2005, 02:06 PM
http://www.gunsnet.net/album/data//500/71192003_0106AC-med.JPG
There you see the effect of a yugoslavian 123 grain ball round in 7.62x39mm from a Yugo SKS at 75 yards. Even non soft points can produce very large holes if you hit them in just the right way.

jjohnson
August 17, 2006, 08:47 AM
I think for deer, I'd be hunting (where legal) with ammo loaded with bullets made specifically for hunting deer-sized game. I've shot a pile of the Wolf HP stuff, and no problem with it, but if I were handloading I'd want 150-gr PSP, only because I know for sure it was designed to expand on deer. I just can't say that about the 123gr HPs. Looks like some of you guys have experience taking game with that, though, so I wouldn't try to change your mind, but what I have on my shelf for deer season is Rem factory SP, and even with that, I figure I'm limited a little 'cause it's not in the same power class I like.

CTD99
August 17, 2006, 09:16 AM
I use an SKS to hunt deer all the time. I realize this discussion (even several months old) centers around hollow points -v- soft points, but over the years I taken 18 deer with 1 (20 count) box of shells. I consider myself somewhat knowledgable on the subject.

(Don't laught too hard, I'm certainly not proud to be so experienced with an SKS. I must digress for a sentences or two; I bought the SKS only because it was about to be banned by Clinton and I wanted to see what all the fuss was about. Then when the press said; "No one ever hunts with these guns." well the rest is history.)

Back to your regulary scheduled post.

Being new to the forum I'm learning, but I have a few questions about what was stated earlier about exit wounds. In all of about 5 shots with my SKS on deer there was an exit wound, but the rest the bullet was contained in the chest cavity.

The question is what is the standard? Should there be an exit would to verify the round you are using on big game is powerfull enough? Or is getting the meat in the freezer good enough?

Ranger J
August 17, 2006, 10:32 AM
I loaned my SKS/red dot combo to a friend for his 14-year-old son to shoot. I sent along a box of Wolf 150 SP bullets. Being a 14-year-old the kid got bored setting in the stand and shot the entire box at squirrels. My friend bought him a box of 123 SP and the next day along walks a 12 pointer. The kid shoots it and the deer goes about 25 yards. There was no exit wound but heart was torn to pieces. I have carried that gun off and on for years and never got a shot. It is real accurate with Wolf ammo. My teen-age daughter carried it for several years before she started shooting what she called a ‘real gun’, my old Remington 742 30-06.:rolleyes:
RJ

Deer Hunter
August 17, 2006, 05:22 PM
I killed my first two deer with the SKS and Wolf hollowpoint ammo. It'll get the job done.

The first was a close "across the room" shot, but the second shot was made at 90 yards.

Ragnor
October 12, 2007, 09:27 PM
Hello, I would just like to share my experience Using Wolf hp ammo.
First and foremost the wolf 7.62x39 HP round is quite sufficient for deer hunting. Correct shot placement is of course important just as it is in EVERY hunting application. I have killed 3 deer with wolf HP rounds. All fell in a short distance and one after sustaining a "little far back" hit, was easily dumped with a well aimed lung shot. I did lose one large whitetail in Idaho after multiple badly placed rounds. I know this was mine own fault however. Banging away at a running deer , no matter how close and how many bad hits you get. Does no equal one well placed shot. BTW if you are used to hunting blacktail deer in washington, then use a shotgun with 3" mag 00buck for brush hunting whitetails (they come out from under your feet and never stop running)..... It gets very anoying.....back to the matter at hand.
It has become my determination that The 7.62x39 round is a near optimum round for hunting blacktails here in western washington. I do not like destroying lots of meat when I shoot an animal. Therefore my true preference for hunting blacktail is a 22 hornet. however that is not legal here. So therefore the next best non-custom round readily available is the 7.62x39.
It is accurate, reliable and not overpowered. As stated before a vital hit will dump a deer in short order.
While not practical I would also mention the 7.62x39 round will hold it's trajectory without "falling over" well out beyond 1200 meters. Learning to shoot that far is of course a learned skill. And luck dont hurt either.
I will also ad that I feel that a lead tip, expanding round is a better choice if you have the option. However the HP's work just fine.

W.E.G.
October 12, 2007, 10:41 PM
7.62x39 is a potent penetrator.

http://www.brassfetcher.com/762x39mm.html

http://youtube.com/watch?v=5N9rIlfVzfI

http://youtube.com/watch?v=qBDzKfKX_yw
(at 3:06 in the video)

Watch out for .308 diameter bullets in .311 diameter barrels. The bullet comes out the business end, but after that its anybody's guess where it goes.

yesit'sloaded
October 12, 2007, 10:44 PM
I like the CXP Winchester 123gr. softpoints. But then again they are about $1 a round so I ordered 500 rounds of Wolf 154 grain sp. Deer gun season doesn't start here for a few more weeks but when it does the wolf will probably be in my gun.

JWarren
October 12, 2007, 11:03 PM
Wow... I have a couple cases of Wolf HP. I never considered it for a hunting round (I have some Remington I use for that.)

I suppose I have more hunting rounds that I thought based upon you guys' reports.


-- John

precisionshootist
October 14, 2007, 07:09 AM
While not practical I would also mention the 7.62x39 round will hold it's trajectory without "falling over" well out beyond 1200 meters. Learning to shoot that far is of course a learned skill.


1200 meters?

WinchesterAA
October 14, 2007, 01:31 PM
I took a coyote with 124gr wolf x39. one shot dropped him pretty quick, but I hit him in the neck @ 50 yards or so.

Wolfgang2000
October 14, 2007, 06:31 PM
I've killed 4 deer with a SKS 7.62x39. I lost another one. The first 4 were all with the plain brown box HP's. The ranges were 40 to 80 yards. All were in heavy brush in S. Louisiana. All 4 were turned of like a light switch. No exit wounds. The bullets all fragmented to nothing. The lungs and hearts looked like jello. I found a little button of lead and jacket under the skin on the opposite side.

The one that got away. I was using "better" Remington SP. I found blood. My wife and I tracked ti for over and hour. Never found it. I went back to the "cheap" stuff.

XD-40 Shooter
October 14, 2007, 07:27 PM
Based on the performance report on www.brassfetcher.com, the Wolf 154 grain soft point should be a good performer, penetrated 16 inches of gellatin and left a large wound channel. I've got a full case of 1000 of these.

MHBushmaster
October 15, 2007, 01:30 PM
Folks, not all Wolf ammo is the same. Wolf is an ammo distributor/exporter for ammo made at Russian ammo arsenals. Wolf Gold line of premium ammo is actually made by Privi Partizan, not even in Russia!

Heres the scoop on 7.62x39 ammo distributed by Wolf that is Hollow Point.
Wolf Military Classic ammo, comes in a camo box, is made at the Ulyanovsk Aresenal. Wolf M.C. ammo in the Hollow Point flavor, uses the Uly 7NP bullet which does fragment when it yaws in soft tissue, typically at ranges around 100 yards and closer.

Wolf Performance (black box) HP ammo is essentially, for all intents and purposes, a FMJ bullet. Wolf Performance (Black Box) amm is made at the Tula Aresenal, totally different ammo plant from Uly, different geographic area, different bullet, different machines, etc.

Bottom line, Wolf Mil Cassic HP ammo does fragment much like 5.56spec ammo does at certain high velocitites at close ranges (100 yards or less) and does provide a better terminal ballistics permanent wound cavity as compared to any similar steel case FMJ ammo. Wolf Performance does offer a 154gr Soft Point steel cased 7.62x39 ammo. I have heard some good things from this ammo for hunting applications, unfortunately its not as easy to find as the FMJ or HP Wolf varieties.

50caliber123
October 15, 2007, 03:13 PM
I shot a whitetail deer here in Michigan a couple years back with my Yugo sks. I was using the cheap polymer-coated 122gr. hollowpoints. The shot was about 30 yards. A head shot, and it proved fatal. Now the deer fell on it's left side. I didn't see any blood, any bullet hole, nothing. Then I flipped it over. The left side of its face was melted away by the bullet. Apparently, the bullet tumbled up the side of the deer's face before going through the skull. Not very pretty.

Nameless_Hobo
October 15, 2007, 05:30 PM
Has anyone tried PMC softpoints? I've a box of 124 or 126 grain ones, wondering if they're decent?

Carbon_15
October 15, 2007, 07:34 PM
Being a 14-year-old the kid got bored setting in the stand and shot the entire box at squirrels
When I was a kid, that would have been my last hunting trip for a LONG time...

I have used Silver Bear 123gr SP's on game once...a 375 lb hog..worked pretty well

alsaqr
October 15, 2007, 07:39 PM
"Wolf hollow point ammo is not suitable for game hunting. It's really just open-tip ammo designed for paper-punching, and does not display the controlled-expansion terminal ballistics that we'd normally expect of hunting ammo."

Tell that to the 9 deer that i have killed with it-9 shots. None went over 25 yards after being hit.

wallager
November 12, 2007, 01:20 AM
Here in the Ozarks the shots on deer tend to be short, but I've made a kill on a buck that weighed 115# field dressed, and this morning my son dropped a nice 125# buck (again field dressed, the biologist at the check station estimated live weight at 160# appox.) at just over 100 yds, mine was closer, 50-maybe 60 in both cases, the load worked perfectly, both took only 1 shot, mine was angling away, I hit just behind the last rib on the right side, the bullet exited forward of the left shoulder. He was on the ground before the brass (I love the sks as a deer rifle, if you miss with the bullet, you've still got a chance of nailing him with the brass, provided it doesn't burn up on re-entry :) , but, I digress, ) My son was on top of a hill, watched the buck bed down, then put a round into the right shoulder, the deer never moved. So far, we are at 100% couldn't ask for more results. My wife is taking her sks, and wolf hollow points tomorrow, will post the results if she connects. I'm happy enough with it that I bought a thousand rounds. It's a limited data base, but there it is.

tnieto2004
November 12, 2007, 02:04 AM
Never used it .. I only used soft point ammo in 7.62x39 when I use it to hunt deer

Caimlas
November 12, 2007, 02:42 AM
I just love how people have the audacity to say that wolf doesn't work, or isn't as effective as X or Y brand, at killing. Folks, people use "cheap wolf ammo" to kill animals all around the world, I'm sure. I guess it just burns some people that some "rank amateur" can get 10 kill with 10 bullets - 10 bullets purchased for roughly the same cost as just one bullet that he buys.

Ithaca37
November 12, 2007, 08:21 AM
Wolf Military Classic ammo, comes in a camo box, is made at the Ulyanovsk Aresenal. Wolf M.C. ammo in the Hollow Point flavor, uses the Uly 7NP bullet which does fragment when it yaws in soft tissue, typically at ranges around 100 yards and closer.

I have read this a lot and have yet to find a source for this info. I am not calling you a liar or anything, I would just like to have the info from a documented source with credentials. Do you havea source for this info?

jonboynumba1
November 12, 2007, 10:04 AM
I think you'll find in most plows the wold stuff is a lot closer to 2250 FPS than any of the other figures. In our state (AL) NONE of the green metal case stuff is legal for hunting...none of the SP expands as it's still copper washed steel jacketed. You can use remington federal winchester (ect) brass cases SP ammo with muchrooming ammo. The SKS is legal here to hunt with. The 7.62x39 doe better with remington SP but is still pretty anemic even compared to a good .30-30 with 150gr SP at an actualy 2250-2300 FPS in real riflers in most cases. I'd limit my shots to 100-150 yards and avoid shoulders like the plague. I'd also reccomend a $150 used Marlin .30-30 over it...the ammo is cheaper easier to find and better. I've put meet on the table with the humble .30-30 plenty of times. Though I'd rather have a .30-06 or 7 mag these days. .30-30 is very easy and cheap to reload for....the roundnose 150gr corelocked bullets are cheap (and what I mostly used to use...they work great at putting what little juice the .30-30 has to the meat...it's a vert efficient little setup -really under rated these days)

I've shot game with the 7.62x39 BTW...from a headshot squirrel to a small doe. It can work well with good ammo if you pick your shots. It's not a combo I'd choose to use for deer generally though. Possibly with some heavier 150gr handloads. It is a great cheap Hog and varmint control tool though...they are very popular for both around here. All things being equal I'd take a .30-30

rbernie
November 12, 2007, 11:19 AM
This is a 500lb hog taken with 7.62x39:

http://www.thehighroad.org/attachment.php?attachmentid=41166&d=1150376185

I've dropped many deer and hog over the last half-dozen years with the round - all shoulder/chest shots taken from 10 to 120 yards away - and the round works just fine as long as the ammo is suitable to the game.

The Brown Bear 123gr SP is too frangible for hog but works OK for deer; the same seems to hold true for the Wolf 154gr SP fodder. None of the Wolf HP will reliably expand or fragment; performance is quite variable and I generally don't use it (altho some folks really like it for hog). I prefer Sierra 125gr. bullets for hog; they hold together better. For deer, I use Hornady 123gr SPs.

280PLUS
November 12, 2007, 01:07 PM
Georgia Arms sells some nice hunting ammo in 7.63x39. Nosler Ballistic tips IIRC, not sure.

George Hill
November 12, 2007, 02:29 PM
Is it just me or does it look like that hog is smiling... like some something out of a Japanese pork commercial.

rbernie
November 12, 2007, 02:57 PM
http://www.thehighroad.org/showthread.php?t=200280

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