Hornady LeveRevolution Bullets


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rbernie
December 7, 2005, 02:08 PM
I ask:
From: rbernie
Sent: Tuesday, November 22, 2005 7:08 PM
To: Webmaster
Subject: LeveRevolution

When do you anticipate having the bullets from this loading available to
reloaders?and the reply is:

From: Kathy McArthur [kmcarthu@hornady.com]
Sent: Wed 12/7/2005 12:13 PM
To: rbernie
Subject: RE: LeveRevolution

Probably not in 2006, if ever.

Guess that's that. :(

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Coltdriver
December 7, 2005, 08:40 PM
Thats too bad. I was hoping to load some up for a 450 Marlin barrel on an Encore.

Hopefully a competitor will come out with some.

Joemidd
December 8, 2005, 08:04 AM
That Sucks:cuss: :cuss: :cuss: I wanted some for my 30-30 and 450 marlin. Oh well I guess that is the same as the 200 SST I want for my 460S&W. For a company that sell its red reloading press. Not selling the lastest componets is just a bad mojo.

mtnbkr
December 8, 2005, 10:15 AM
Thats too bad. I was hoping to load some up for a 450 Marlin barrel on an Encore.
Why would you need them for a single shot rifle? I thought the big benefit was a spitzer point that was safe in tube magazines...

Chris

Coltdriver
December 8, 2005, 11:17 AM
It has a little better flight dynamics. And if you can reload em, why not?

I will buy some to try it out but it would be fun to reload some too.

antarti
December 8, 2005, 12:46 PM
Subject: RE: LeveRevolution

Probably not in 2006, if ever.

Awww man! :cuss:

I was planning on getting a Marlin and having it rechambered to 30-30AI just for reloading this ammo... would have made for a smokin' hog and deer load in a traditional lever.

I think I just might stop buying Hornady components altogether for that....

larryw
December 8, 2005, 03:36 PM
I read the breathless writeups in the usual rags and have a couple questions.

As the soft tip exits the magazine tube, does it ever hang up on the typically rough, sharp edges? What kind of feeding malfunctions can one expect, and what are the recommended solutions?

If the tip is soft enough to deform under mag-tube spring pressure, does it also deform under the massive acceleration experienced during firing?

If so, does this deformation also apply to lateral expansion as the bullet begins to spin down the bore? Does the soft tip slouch over to the side as the bullet spins? (2000fps, 20" twist = nearly 72,000RPM)

As the bullet exits the muzzle with the (I presume) deformed and flapping tip, and regardless of the magazine claims, how does this affect accuracy and terminal performance in the real world?

Now granted, I've been proven wrong by Hornady before (17HMR and Mk2, 204Ruger) and love their bullets (223 V-Max!!), but this whole thing feels like snake oil to me.

Poodleshooter
December 8, 2005, 04:32 PM
I'm sure this will be useful to all of those who need to make 300yard hunting shots,and choose to do so with their 30/30s. :rolleyes:

Coltdriver
December 8, 2005, 05:14 PM
If you look at the bullets you can see that there is less tip to deform in flight than others like the vmax.

I also noticed that they lightened up the bullet a bit.

Still would have been a nice addition to a reloaders already immense options.

Carl N. Brown
December 8, 2005, 05:22 PM
Don't Hornady, Speer and everyone else spend a lot of lab time
testing before they consider releasing their products to us home
loaders?

They may want to establish the reputation of LeveRevolution
with factory loads under their control before releasing the components
to the reloading and handloading public.

I would not blame Hornady for not releasing the leverevolution
components until they are fool proof, cause fools like me can be
pretty ingenious on ways to muck up a reload or handload.

rbernie
December 8, 2005, 06:47 PM
I'm sure this will be useful to all of those who need to make 300yard hunting shots,and choose to do so with their 30/30s. :rolleyes: You can roll your eyes all you want, but significantly less wind drift and drop at 200 yards is nothing to sneeze at if it's relatively free for the taking.

In this case, it's a moot point - the components aren't available. That means that we can't test 'em out and see firsthand how they stack up against the traditional flatnose/roundnose fodder. But I woulda been willing to put them thru their paces, if only to increase my comfort level at 200 yard shots.

Oldnamvet
December 8, 2005, 08:57 PM
I guess those of us interested in using spitzer type bullets in the 30/30 lever actions are relegated to having 2 shot rifles.:cuss: :mad:

The Bushmaster
December 8, 2005, 09:05 PM
Oldnamvet...I have a better idea or the solution that I have been using for years in my .30-30 Winchester...I load a 165 grain Speer soft point flat base in the chamber and fill the tube with three or four Speer 170 grain FNSP...First shot is a doozy and the followups ain't bad either...:D

antarti
December 8, 2005, 10:59 PM
I'm sure this will be useful to all of those who need to make 300yard hunting shots,and choose to do so with their 30/30s

Actually, that has nothing to do with it.

Having a lever action that is retro-authentic (unlike the browning BLR) with a tube mag (unlike the Savage 99 and BLR) that shoots 30-30 or 45-70 bullets that don't lose something like 200fps per 100 feet would be the goal.

Hunting around me is 35-75 yards, unless there's a powerline clearcut, then it can extend from there.

Having a rifle that could do all that (handy in brush, and being able to reach out far if needed) meant a bolt gun, like my 280Rem 700 Mountain rifle.

I'd like to have my cake, and eat it too, by being able to use a quick-handling lever action out to 250 instead. The fact that it would hit much harder at 75 is even more icing on the cake.

Poodleshooter
December 9, 2005, 03:57 PM
You can roll your eyes all you want, but significantly less wind drift and drop at 200 yards is nothing to sneeze at if it's relatively free for the taking.

In this case, it's a moot point - the components aren't available. That means that we can't test 'em out and see firsthand how they stack up against the traditional flatnose/roundnose fodder. But I woulda been willing to put them thru their paces, if only to increase my comfort level at 200 yard shots.
Since you aroused my curiosity, I ran the numbers using the BC for Remington 150gr spitzers and round noses, both at 30/30 velocities of 2390fps. The difference in the maximum trajectory heights for a 200yd zero amounts to 6/10's of an inch. The spitzer rises no more than 3.1" above the bore with a 200yd zero,and the round nose no more than 3.7". I sure couldn't tell you the difference between them in a field situation,shooting at a 100yd target with a 200yd zeroed rifle. I'll concede that the drift gives a big 3-4" advantage to the spitzer. Free for the taking is probably not going to be very descriptive of these bullets if they ever sell them. I pay about .10 apiece for Remington CoreLokt roundnoses. I can practice a lot more with those and that will definitely increase my own comfort level.

Having a lever action that is retro-authentic (unlike the browning BLR) with a tube mag (unlike the Savage 99 and BLR) that shoots 30-30 or 45-70 bullets that don't lose something like 200fps per 100 feet would be the goal.
I like traditional leverguns too,but I can't remember the last time I took more than 2 consecutive shots while hunting with one. I'd say that based on my experience, I'd go with what most of the others are saying: loading regular or premium spitzers or even boattailed spitzers, with one in the chamber and one in the tube makes much more sense than using this ammo. It only gives a benefit over handloads once you get to that third shot in the field. There's no point at all at the range,where everything can be single loaded. I'm sure that I can get less drop and wind resistance single loading a Hornady A-max in my Winchester 94.
For us reloaders, this is an answer in search of a question.

The Bushmaster
December 9, 2005, 11:23 PM
Hear, here...Poodleshooter...As I said above I load a pointed bullet in the chamber and load standard flat nose in the tube...Nine times out of ten it's the first shot that counts. The second if needed and the third is a "Screw You" shot...

Crosshair
December 9, 2005, 11:30 PM
*Starts pulling bullets, selling on black market.*:neener:

The Bushmaster
December 10, 2005, 12:46 AM
Crosshairs...To tell the truth...I really don't think they will sell that well, because I am in agreement with the fact that a nose that soft resting against the next round as long as it will be in a days hunt can't keep its shape. In the mountains where I hunt they would take quite a beating in a tube magazine as it is. I still like my way best as it is tried and tested. As Poodleshooter said it will not improve the .30-30 that much, but just enough to give better impact at the same ranges that the .30-30 lever guns were designed for in the first place. I have experimented with pointed bullets for a number of years in my Mod 94. If you think you are going to make a bean field shooter out of a Marlin (parish the thought) or a Winchester lever gun, you are sadly mistaken. And they put scopes on them too...I have a problem with this too. Unless you are getting blind and can't see the rear sight anymore, you can see farther then the rifle can shoot effectively. (Effective range for the Lever gun: .30-30 170 grain FN 20" barrel is 150 to 200 yards. At 2150 fps... 250 yards is stretchin' it a bit. It's a heavy brush and thick timber rifle...:rolleyes:

Howie38
December 10, 2005, 09:39 PM
According to Hornady, they loaded a bunch into a tube and dropped it 30 ft, several times. And the polymer tip is supposed to outlast any mag spring. Just got some myself. The tip isn’t really soft, felt more like hard plastic.

Saw the (pulled) 30/30 bullet in a magazine today. It’s a “boat-tail”.

MICKPORNO
June 20, 2007, 03:16 PM
have there been any updates to the availability of these bullets for handloaders? i would like to load for the 30-30.....

Walkalong
June 20, 2007, 04:42 PM
As Poodleshooter said it will not improve the .30-30 that much, but just enough to give better impact at the same ranges that the .30-30 lever guns were designed for in the first place. I have experimented with pointed bullets for a number of years in my Mod 94. If you think you are going to make a bean field shooter out of a Marlin (parish the thought) or a Winchester lever gun, you are sadly mistaken. And they put scopes on them too...I have a problem with this too. Unless you are getting blind and can't see the rear sight anymore, you can see farther then the rifle can shoot effectively. (Effective range for the Lever gun: .30-30 170 grain FN 20" barrel is 150 to 200 yards. At 2150 fps... 250 yards is stretchin' it a bit. It's a heavy brush and thick timber rifle...:rolleyes:

Aptly said. If you want a bean field rifle, get one. I like my 20" barreled Win 94 with No Scope. 200 yards and in they are in serious trouble. I have a .308 if I want to hunt where I need more range. :)

jeepmor
June 21, 2007, 11:30 AM
It would be a nice option for the reloader. Hornady is missing out on a market by not offering. But as business goes, particular ammo manufacturers of late, they are busy keeping the governement happy at this time. Hence the ridiculous ammo prices of late.

In Oregon, particularly in the coast range and Cascade mountains, you won't likely be getting shots beyond 50 yards in that thick brush. However, you often see your quarry on the other side of the canyon, you might want that extra reach potential in that case.

Out in the desert east of the cascades, unless you want to belly crawl, your quarry can see you coming a loooong ways off. You will need/want a different cartridge and rifle in this case.

MarshallDodge
June 21, 2007, 11:39 AM
Correct me if I am wrong but the LeveRevolution round's performance is not just based on the bullet but the powder used as well. I thought I read somewhere that the powder they use is a special blend?

Either way they should release the bullets to the public. We always seem to find better ways to put them to use. :D

Howie38
June 21, 2007, 05:37 PM
I really don’t think any of them uses “special blends”. It’ll cut into their profit margin.

If a run of a certain ammo uses say a ton of powder. And a “special blend” runs just a dollar more per pound (and I’m sure it’ll be more), that’s a $2000 profit loss over using an over the counter powder. They could just add it to the price, but then they’ll sell less of it.
And end up losing even more.

MarshallDodge
June 21, 2007, 06:23 PM
Do you have any facts to back up your statement?

Hornady charges 90 cents more a round for the Leverevolution:
Hornady price link (https://www.hornady.com/shop/?ps_session=3cf703ae35b71c146ff27fab1094f558&page=shop%2Fbrowse&category_id=617900860f0f136528b6f2d1f845cb05)

shenck
June 21, 2007, 07:14 PM
It doesn't matter if it is advantageous to load Leverevolution bullets or not, I would like to see them released to the reloading public. I also think that the 30/30 Ai is a pefect place to use them.

Stinger
June 21, 2007, 08:36 PM
Those velocities reported by Hornady are indeed the product of non-canister grade powders that you and I can't attain. Same with the .204 Ruger and some of the newer cartridges. They can specially blend and test powders, and you can't so don't even try.

How does charging double for Leverevolution ammo cut into their profit margin? Sure, the powder costs more, but so does the ammo.

MinnMooney
June 22, 2007, 12:42 AM
I'm hoping that Speer, Nosler, Sierra or Barnes will come out with their own version(s) of the polymer-tipped round for the .30-30 tube feeder.

dmftoy1
June 22, 2007, 08:03 AM
If Hornady was smart they patented the technology before they released it . . . don't know if they did, but that's what I would've done. :)

Carl N. Brown
June 22, 2007, 01:47 PM
So the LeveRevolution ammo is special bullet and special powder.
The published ballistics did sound better than I could try to
accomplish with spirepoint bullets in a .30-30 without exceeding
the pressure limits in the reloading manuals.

rdaines
June 22, 2007, 03:14 PM
I would not my a rifle or handgun that I could not reload with the bullet of my choice. While I do plan on buying a Marlin XLR, I don't need the "300 yard performance" and will get a 444 Marlin when they are available. Plenty of good bullet choices there. If I need a "pointy" bullet I'll drag out the bolt rifle. Why a 444 Marlin? Heck, everyone has a 45-70.

Eagle103
June 22, 2007, 03:33 PM
I'm hoping that Speer, Nosler, Sierra or Barnes will come out with their own version(s) of the polymer-tipped round for the .30-30 tube feeder.

That would be nice. If their plastic/rubber tip is covered under some special patent or couldn't be legally duplicated with some minor change I would be surprised.

MattB000
June 22, 2007, 04:00 PM
They address this somewhere on thier website. They claim they can't make them fast enough to keep up with the current demand for factory ammo as it stands now.

20nickels
June 23, 2007, 06:12 PM
Aside from the polymer tip, couldn't you just make a mold and cast your own?

dmftoy1
June 23, 2007, 09:16 PM
Quote:
I'm hoping that Speer, Nosler, Sierra or Barnes will come out with their own version(s) of the polymer-tipped round for the .30-30 tube feeder.

That would be nice. If their plastic/rubber tip is covered under some special patent or couldn't be legally duplicated with some minor change I would be surprised.

I have no clue whether they've actually patented it (althought I'd be surprised if they didn't) What you're patent'ing (is that a word? :) ) is the 'idea' and not the exact polymer that they use or the shape. If it was so easy to make a minor change and make your own then the guy who patented the interval windshield wiper idea wouldn't have been able to win judgements against Ford and Chrysler. (They didn't use any of his design but they did use his "idea" of a wiper system that paused between wipes)

Have a good one,
Dave

Stinger
June 23, 2007, 09:44 PM
They undoubtedly hold a patenet on the bullet, and other bullet companies could develop their own. Eventually they might. But what percentage of ammo sales does the Leverevolution have in things such as 30-30? I'd bet somewhere around 1%. It wouldn't be worth it to develop a bullet, load, and then market that. it would cost millions to tap into a very small niche.

DillHarris
June 24, 2007, 02:30 PM
They address this somewhere on thier website. They claim they can't make them fast enough to keep up with the current demand for factory ammo as it stands now.

I talked to one of the Hornady reps at the St. Louis NRA show a little while back about when components might be available. He said pretty much the same thing as quoted above and that they'll sell components when they don't need it all for factory loads. I don't know if they're really limited by rate of production or not. Could be they just want to push the 308 Marlin Express which I believe takes the same bullet as the 30-30. The rep was a real good guy to talk to though. The tips are harder than you think they would be.

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