Wal-Mart Stops Gun Sales in California Stores


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spin180
April 4, 2003, 11:37 PM
Wal-Mart Stops Gun Sales in Calif. Stores
1 hour, 20 minutes ago

By JIM WASSERMAN, Associated Press Writer

SACRAMENTO, Calif. - Wal-Mart agreed Friday to immediately suspend sales of rifles and shotguns in its 118 California stores, following nearly 500 violations of state firearms laws in six stores.

In two cases, a store sold guns to felons, according to Attorney General Bill Lockyer, who announced the agreement with the retail giant.

Wal-Mart's action comes after the chain announced in July that it had implemented a rule requiring customers to undergo a background check before buying rifles and shotguns โ€” no matter how long the check takes.

In California, store employees released guns to customers before background checks were completed, Lockyer said, and failed to verify the identities of buyers through thumbprints and driver's licenses.

Other violations included failing to document sale of a firearms safety device with the gun.

Wal-Mart spokesman Tom Williams said Friday the company will begin new employee training in state firearms law early next week.

"We need to do a better job and that's what we're going to do," he said.

Williams said store employees involved in the offenses will not be terminated.

He added it's the first time Wal-Mart, which sells rifles and shotguns โ€” but not handguns โ€” has suspended firearms sales in a state for such violations.

State and federal laws prohibit selling guns to felons or people convicted of domestic violence offenses. Sales are also banned to subjects of restraining orders and people with mental conditions that make them a dangerous to themselves and others.

The policy announced in July, which exceeds federal guidelines, came after Wal-Mart's own research showed that weapons it sold were being used in crimes.

Under federal law, background checks through the National Instant Criminal Background Check System are required for anyone attempting to purchase a gun. If the results are not returned within three business days, the dealer may complete the sale.

http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story2&cid=514&e=7&u=/ap/20030405/ap_on_re_us/wal_mart_guns_2

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Sven
April 4, 2003, 11:48 PM
This sucks.

In California, store employees released guns to customers before background checks were completed, Lockyer said, and failed to verify the identities of buyers through thumbprints and driver's licenses.

Other violations included failing to document sale of a firearms safety device with the gun.

/sarcasm

Glad to see that Attorney General Lockyer is checking up on our retail establishments and keeping this place safe.

Kevlarman
April 5, 2003, 12:30 AM
Bah!

gudel
April 5, 2003, 12:32 AM
man, i didn't know that. otherwise i'd pick up some shotguns.
no walmart in this area.

mons meg
April 5, 2003, 12:45 AM
They seem to stress that Wal Mart doesn't sell pistols. This wasn't the case 10 years ago.

Dave R
April 5, 2003, 01:12 AM
"In two cases, a store sold guns to felons, according to Attorney General Bill Lockyer, who announced the agreement with the retail giant."

So, did the Wal-Mart employees fail to wait for the NICS checks? Or did the NICS report fail to identify the felons?

waterdog
April 5, 2003, 01:38 AM
What do they expect from an employee making $7 an hour.

I wonder how many of these transactions were made to people related to the sales clerk.

This means wally world is conducting an internal (firearms) survey.

This is the precursor to a nationwide action by them.

They are hoping to side slip backlash from gunowners, by implementing this action voluntarily.

They need to recieve a few thousand emails, advising them of
how foolish it would be to implement this nationally..

waterdog

Pendragon
April 5, 2003, 04:50 AM
1. This may help the little stores - at least for a while.

2. Wal-Mart is a great place to buy the trigger locks when you buy a gun. Last 3 guns I bought - bought a $4.95 cable lock (CA DOJ Approved!) - used the lock to pickup the gun (show reciept and lock - was not required to open lock). I have since returned 2 of the 3 locks...

3. Wal-Mart is the only place in Sacramento I know of to get the NEF Handi-Rifles and they sell them for ~$200. The gunsmith store I go to sometimes quoted me $329. Ouch! I will pay 10-15% more but 60% more is ridiculous...

Dannyboy
April 5, 2003, 07:26 AM
Wal-Mart just built a store in my area a few years ago and they haven't sold guns from day 1. I'm surprised that they sell them in **********.

beckrodgers
April 5, 2003, 10:52 AM
It is bad , We are running out of choices to shop. I have bought several there and still buy my cat litter And ammo there to good to pass up,I feel like a sellout a lot of times tho.

TheOtherOne
April 5, 2003, 10:54 AM
Under federal law, background checks through the National Instant Criminal Background Check System are required for anyone attempting to purchase a gun. If the results are not returned within three business days, the dealer may complete the sale.Is that really a federal law that applies to rifles and shotguns? I haven't bought a rifle at the store recently, but I could swear there was no background check on them. My sister bought a 30-06 at Walmart a couple years ago and I don't remember any check. She bought it to give to my brother-in-law for his birthday so I guess that makes it a straw purchase and she's a felon now? :D Sorry... I just can't keep up with all these laws.

Hkmp5sd
April 5, 2003, 11:01 AM
Is that really a federal law that applies to rifles and shotguns?


Yep.

Permanent Provisions of the Brady Law. The purpose of this letter is to advise you of your responsibilities under the permanent provisions of the Brady law, 18 U.S.C. ยง 922(t). On November 30, 1998, the interim provisions of the Brady law will cease to apply, and the permanent provisions of the Brady law will take effect.

The permanent provisions of the Brady law provide for the establishment of a National Instant Criminal Background Check System (NICS) that licensees must contact before transferring any firearm to unlicensed individuals. While the interim provisions apply only to handguns, the permanent provisions of Brady will apply to all firearms. In addition, under permanent Brady there will no longer be an exemption for the redemption of a firearm from pawn.

http://www.atf.treas.gov/firearms/bradylaw/states/california.htm

4v50 Gary
April 5, 2003, 11:48 AM
Poor training yields poor results. I can see remedial training and documentation, but to stop all sales is an over reaction.

TheOtherOne
April 5, 2003, 11:56 AM
I knew that brady bill required background checks on handguns... but dang "all firearms transactions", is there some clause somewhere that allows states to get out of it for rifles? I could of swore there was no check on rifles and shotguns here in Utah.

beckrodgers
April 5, 2003, 12:03 PM
the Other One ,we believe that the only clause we need is the U S Constitution 2nd 4th 9th 10th amendments, sorry this whole line of thinking just sets me off. Really tho read on ,there is just to much to post here, JFPO, GOA, RKBA are a few places to look and read. Thanks

TheOtherOne
April 5, 2003, 12:12 PM
the Other One ,we believe that the only clause we need is the U S Constitution 2nd 4th 9th 10th amendments, sorry this whole line of thinking just sets me off. Really tho read on ,there is just to much to post here, JFPO, GOA, RKBA are a few places to look and read. ThanksNo need to convert me. I feel the same way. It's just too bad the .gov doesn't.

ajacobs
April 5, 2003, 12:25 PM
In may states you are exempt by virtue of already having it done with your pistol permit. Your pistol permit shows you have passed nics. This is not true in all states.

answerguy
April 5, 2003, 12:44 PM
Well, duhhh...

Wal-Mart just built a store in my area a few years ago and they haven't sold guns from day 1. I'm surprised that they sell them in **********.

aren't you in New Jersey, Dannyboy?

jem375
April 5, 2003, 01:33 PM
I worked in a Gander Mountain store in the gun department.....every firearm had to go through the NICS background check, but, where we differed from some dealers is that if a delay was told to us by the NICS people, and the law was after 3 days you could legally sell the firearm to the person buying it if not called back, the management at GM would not, and made the person apply again after 3 days........I think the 3 days wait and then selling the firearm is where some felons got them.....the NICS program is probably understaffed, and a person with no law problems would get permission right away..........

spacemanspiff
April 5, 2003, 01:43 PM
the walmarts up here in alaska still sell handguns. a rather small selection, couple glocks, some rugers, couple wheelguns, maybe a dozen different models.

Standing Wolf
April 5, 2003, 03:03 PM
I've been in two or three Wal Marts, but there's just too much Chinese junk to suit me.

10-Ring
April 5, 2003, 04:29 PM
:rolleyes: :cuss: :banghead: & :fire: Pretty much sum up how I feel :banghead: :mad:
Not because I buy alot of guns from Wal Mart (don't remember the last time I saw HK products there ;) ), but that now there's one less place to even look at guns for sale :mad:

jimbo
April 5, 2003, 04:31 PM
California does not use NICS. There is a mandatory 10-day waiting period for all long-arms during which the background check is performed. Even if the background check comes back in 5 days, the buyer must wait 10 24-hour period before he is legally allowed to pick-up the rifle.:banghead: :cuss:

PlayTheAces
April 5, 2003, 05:55 PM
I was in a Wal-Mart this afternoon and they had a sign posted in their empty long-gun case. To paraphrase it, the message was they are "temporarily" suspending sales while their personnel undergo additional training.

If you take the sign at face value, they plan on resuming sales in California.

mons meg
April 5, 2003, 06:42 PM
a person with no law problems would get permission right away..........

I wish that were true. Every time I have bought a gun, my NICS check comes back delayed. The worst thing I have ever done is speed......in my car. The closest to subversive I get is using open source software. ;)

Now, I do have an FBI file from my time in the Marines. I always figured that tripped up the NICS check while they called the FBI, checked my SRB, etc. Good thing my FFL doesn't make me wait more than the 3 days.

El Rojo
April 5, 2003, 08:04 PM
K-Mart stopped selling firearms in the PRK because the laws were too much of a headache. I think this is more of a indication of how confusing and complex the laws are rather than a poor reflection on Walmart.

BerettaNut92
April 5, 2003, 10:36 PM
If they are felons and the CA DOJ knew, why the heck are they shopping among us?

jem375
April 6, 2003, 03:10 AM
Mons Meg.......I have yet to have a delayed on any firearm I have ever bought, and they are many...............

Didorian
April 6, 2003, 03:14 AM
What's a "NEF handi-rifle"???

DougB
April 6, 2003, 04:41 AM
I agree with El Rojo - I don't blame Walmart - it's the incredible amount of paperwork and the innumerable "gotchas" encountered when buying and selling guns in California. Some examples:

"Is that particular lock approved for that particular gun?" (it isn't enough that the lock be approved by the CA DOJ - it must be approved for the particular type of firearm).

"Did you get a right thumb print on the back of the DROS form?" (there's no particular space on the form to remind you - you just have to remember to get a print on the back).

"Did you release that firearm to the buyer after only ten days, rather than ten 24-hour periods?" (If someone buys a gun at 4:00 PM, you can't release it to them until after 4:00 PM on the 10th day - if you give it to them at, say, noon on the 10th day, you haven't complied with the waiting period requirement).

"You left the non-CA-approved cable lock that came with that rifle in the box when you delivered it to the customer." (It doesn't matter that the customer may have an approved safe or purchase an approved lock - you MUST remove any non-approved lock from the box and not offer them to customers in any way."

'What, you couldn't get the card reader attached to your computer to read the customer's driver's license."

This just scratches the surface of the laws and rules that gun dealers have to follow in CA. I'm not at all surprised that Walmart employees, who probably also have to know how to sell paint, car batteries, tropical fish, and who knows what else, have a tough time following CA gun laws to the letter. I wouldn't be surprised if they entirely give up on selling guns here.

We should blame the legislature and the governor, not Walmart.

Doug

badgerrr
April 6, 2003, 05:45 AM
http://www.hr1871.com/firearms/riflesOP.jpg

That's a Handi-rifle..............;)

Pendragon
April 6, 2003, 06:30 AM
NEF is New England Firearms which is recenlty owned by Marlin.

The Handi-Rifle is an inexpensive single shot break action rifle.

You can generally get them for abour $200-$230 depending on area.

The best part is - you can send them to NEF and they will fit additional barrels in other calibers for about $85

They are quite interesting and as far as I know, the cheapest way to get a .45-70 for pig shootin :)

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