Mossberg 500 Bullpup 12 ga legal?


PDA






Politicallysober
December 11, 2005, 12:20 AM
Hello all,

I need some advice, I'm looking for a good home protection shotgun. Home invasions are picking up where I live. I have taken messures to secure my house, installed better locks etc. A co-worker who is a long time NRA member and gun collector mentioned the Mossberg 500 Bullpup 12 gauge to me. I did a lot of web searching and given the bullpup design I'm kind of wondering about the laws here in Indiana on this shotgun. The code on shotguns here in Indiana 35-47-5 is vague and only sites sawed off shotguns as being illegal. Any help from you guys would be great,

If you enjoyed reading about "Mossberg 500 Bullpup 12 ga legal?" here in TheHighRoad.org archive, you'll LOVE our community. Come join TheHighRoad.org today for the full version!
mnrivrat
December 11, 2005, 12:26 AM
Although the bullpup model is legal in that it has a <18" tube and is <26" in overall length I think your going to find one difficult to find, expensive to purchase , and not all that great when compared to a regular riot type shotgun.

justsurvivingincalifornia
December 11, 2005, 12:38 AM
I wanted a bullpup mossberg 500 for years, However I belive that there is some safety or/and political problems with the bullpup stock. I could not locate one at a reasonable price. You can install dual pistol grip on a regular shotgun.

Politicallysober
December 11, 2005, 12:38 AM
I did get the impression that it might be overkill. It looks very mean, but in this case looks are not the issue. I was thinking maybe a Mossberg Cruiser, but then again my knowledge of shotguns goes as far as my fathers 1939 Fox long barrel side by side. I would hate to end up paying for a name, rather paying for reliability. Any ideas on models to check out?

geekWithA.45
December 11, 2005, 12:47 AM
Welcome, politically sober.

If you're concerned about overall length, consider a mossberg 500 or 590 with a folding stock. It's a pump "riot" type shotgun that takes 7 or 8 shells.

Basically, you have to make them, which is perfectly legal to do. Start with a "cruiser" model, which is inexpensive, and add a folding stock.

http://www.combatstocks.com/Shotgun_Stocks_Folding.cfm

Personally, I like the Choat type, although the ATI universal is fine too.

The reason you want this stock is A) pistol grip shotguns are NOT easy to handle. It's much better to shoot from a shoulder mounted position. B) If for whatever reason you DO need to fold it up and shoot from the hip, the extra weight across the top makes it much more manageable.

Also, since you're a new member, I am going to presume that you're more or less a nonshooter (ie: new or occassional), looking for a "just in case" house gun, and so I give you my current advise for such folk:

Give serious consideration to a semi-auto pistol caliber carbine, such as the kel-tec sub 2000, Marlin Camp 9 or .45, Ruger PCxxx series, or Berretta Storm, to name a few.

The reason I recommend them is because being long arms, they don't require the level of mastery that a handgun demands (and avoids the various complications that some handgun averse jurisdictions throw at citizens). In fact, they make it hard to miss at home defense ranges. They're not as powerful as a full blown rifle, and this makes followup shots faster and easier. They also don't recoil as much, which is often a problem for the new and occassional shooter.

If you are familiar and comfortable with shotguns, the following are generally considered the best of the defensive shotgun family, listed in the generally accepted order of preference:

Remington 870P (militarized 870)
Mossberg 590 (militarized 500)
Remington 870
Mossberg 500
Winchester 1300 "defender" configuration

The militarized models are essentially the same as their civilian counterparts. Some of the parts that are rendered in polymer in the civilian models are beefed up in the militarized models, and are therefore more durable. The civilian models are considered sufficiently durable and reliable as to last for generations, and you would be well served with either the Rem or the Mossy. The jury is out on the Winchester.

All these are pump shotguns with extended mags and 18-20 inch barrels (the defining features of a "riot gun"), carrying 5-8 shells, depending on the model. The mossberg has a tang safety, which lefties like me consider to be less hostile than a cross bolt safety. There are some other subtle differences.

Politicallysober
December 11, 2005, 01:05 AM
Wow thanks geek, would say you hit every point. I did use to carry a pistol, my father got me a Ruger P 95 but due to continual harrassment by the local police I sold it and did not renew my permit to carry. Long story, but thanks for the advice on shotguns. Reliable home protection is important, and a shotgun will more than fill my need for security. Hand to hand is useless when you are being engaged from down the hall.

saltydog
December 11, 2005, 11:28 AM
The only thing that makes the Mossberg 500 bullpup nice is the fact you can lay it side by side to a fully stocked Remington 870 and the overall length of the bullpup would equal that of a 12 inched barreled 870. Not bad if you need to turn around in a hallway.:D

bogie
December 11, 2005, 11:51 AM
You want reliability. Will the trigger group hold up?

Does it naturally shoot where you point it? Or do you have to think about it. Don't buy a defensive firearm blind.

Personally, I like my old Savage double with the exposed hammers... I can keep it ready to go, and all I have to do is cock 'em.

GigaBuist
December 11, 2005, 05:38 PM
I'm going with that the Geek said, but I have no idea about the top folding pistol grip shotgun stuff. I've actually got one tucked away in that configuration, but I've never fired it. I'm the opposite of the "old man with one gun" paradigm. I'm a young guy with too many guns and I can't shoot ANY of them very well at any given time and I'll admit it.

However, I can hit with a shotgun and with a pistol caliber carbine. They're ideal for home defense, IMHO, simply because they're so easy to operate and shoulder. If I can hit something with one, anybody can. :)

wdlsguy
December 11, 2005, 06:16 PM
The code on shotguns here in Indiana 35-47-5 is vague and only sites sawed off shotguns as being illegal.

IC 35-47-1-10
"Sawed-off shotgun"
Sec. 10. "Sawed-off shotgun" means:
(1) a shotgun having one (1) or more barrels less than eighteen (18) inches in length; and
(2) any weapon made from a shotgun (whether by alteration, modification, or otherwise) if the weapon as modified has an overall length of less than twenty-six (26) inches.

I'm fairly certain the Mossberg bullpups had 18+ inch barrels with a 26+ inch overall length, so they would be legal in Indiana.

Carl N. Brown
January 17, 2006, 06:43 PM
The Mossberg Bullpup contains a Mossberg 500 barreled action.
Disadvantage:
- The muzzle is close to the ear.
- The bullpup stock is heavier than a conventional stock.
- The linkage between the mid-grip and the actual trigger makes the
trigger pull atrocious.
- If the gun is dropped on the butt, safety button off and the grip
safety jammed, the gun could fire due to the weight of the extra
trigger linkage.
- It is an EBS - Evil Black Shotgun.
Advantage:
+ It is an EBS - Evil Black Shotgun.
+ The extra weight reduces felt recoil.
+ A shoulder fired shotgun with sights within an overall length approx 28"
The typical pistol grip shotgun cannot be aimed fired and when shot
from the hip usually hits way low.
http://www.thehighroad.org/attachment.php?attachmentid=34123&stc=1&d=1137531604
The original Bullpup has a carry handle/sight attached to the barrel shield
and a foreward pistol grip.
I removed the pistol grip and added a retaining strap to the forearm.
This is to prevent the forward hand from accidentally getting in front
of the muzzle.
I replaced the handle and open sights with a scope mount bolted from
the inside of the shield with the threads locked with JB weld epoxy.
I mounted sling swivels on top the barrel and top of the butt.

With shotgun scope foster slugs group about two-three inces at fifty yards.
I also have a 1x red dot sight which would make a better choice for HD.
(I was asked at the range if I intended to deer hunt with it. BEAR GUN!)

The stock is what is bullpup. In case the stock breaks, I bought a wood
stock set cheap from a dealer who had swapped out for a synthetic stock
for a 500 owner.

boofus
January 17, 2006, 07:00 PM
I've seen one of those for sale here at gun shows. It's sat on the same dealer's table for over a year now. Price was around $450. I handled it a little but had to pass because that thing was just too damn heavy and bulky.

That thing is thick, maybe 3-4" wide and very heavy. I wouldn't be surprised if it weighed 14 or 15 lbs.

El Tejon
January 17, 2006, 07:05 PM
PS, no, the statute is not vague. Criminal statutes do not list what is permitted, only what is not permitted.

As Indiana Code states, as long as your weapon is not NFA-regulated, it is legal. If your weapon is Title II, then you must be a po-po or an SOT.

An NFA compliance exception (like machine guns) has been on our wish list for some time. It is a silly hassle to register them as AoWs.:rolleyes:

Why did SBPD harrass you so that you sold your pistol???:confused:

John Hicks
January 18, 2006, 02:24 PM
2nd the recommendation of a Mossberg 590.

I have a 590 w/ side saddle, pistol grip, and top folding stock (and sling, and weapon light).

Lightweight, fairly compact, scary looking, and very easy to shoot.

It isn't an EBS, since I have mine in the marine silver finish ;)

jh

Moparmike
January 19, 2006, 06:00 AM
My local gunmonger had one for about $200 in 20ga about a year or two ago. It was sold by the time I had the $$$ for it.


Funny thing was I thought it was perfect for my mother. Light recoil, decent power, and easy to use in the defense of her home.

GandolfTheWise
January 19, 2009, 06:48 AM
I personally purchased a Mossberg Bullpup for a home defense weapon, and I will explain my reasoning:

When I was in law school (grad 1993) I was doing a lot of research on just about anything of interest as we had free access to legal research on dedicated sites, and I found the following result of polls taken (by students in various colleges) in prisons of thieves that broke into homes, and it was particularly surprising to me: The primary question was "What do you most fear when you are entering a home? The answer at the top was a DOG! (You can't really negotiate with a dog.) And the second was a homeowner with a gun.

When the questions got more specific as to the types of weapons, the differences didn't matter as much if the gun-bearer was a man, but there were great differences if the bearer was a woman.

If it was a woman holding a handgun, 80% of the criminals would keep on advancing! The reasons were many: didn't think she'd shoot; didn't think she would hit anything if she did manage to pull the trigger, or didn't think she'd be using anything with the power to do any real damage.

They then went through a variety of specific handgun calibers, different rifles, and also shotguns.

The really significant result was that when the weapon was a 12 gauge PUMP shotgun, the % of criminals who would keep on advancing was decreased to Zero!

I have talked to many policemen about this and they agree that the sound of a 12 gauge being cocked (chuk-chuk) will cause fear in any person not out of his mind on drugs. I was told that police use it to stop groups advancing on them and they also prefer the 12 gauge because it has a huge variety of ammo made for it.

I had told that story to many people, and realized that I, myself, did not have a 12 gauge pump for my wife to use, so I went out to purchase one.

I found the Mossberg Bullpup at a pawn shop, and it fit the minimum requirement (12 gauge pump) and it looked like a cool weapon - I always seem to prefer something a little different, ie. I once owned a VW combi, and a citroen - 'nuff said.

The bullpup was a little more than I wanted to spend, so I made a trade. I brought in my Mac-10 in .45 calibre, with the shoulder strap, two 32-round magazines, and 14" barrel extender that I had picked up over the years, and the plastic gun case with the foam cutouts to hold everything, and traded it for the Bullpup plus $200. I also got the pawn-shop owner to promise me that at anytime in the future, I would get first refusal to buy it back.

I knew he wasn't going to put it up for sale quickly as he wanted to play with it for awhile. He never did put it up for sale. Oh well.

My next purchase is going to be the North American Arms Cobra for a pocket gun, and then hopefully by Christmas, I will get the Taurus JUDGE in .45/.410 as a serious concealed carry weapon.

I hope this sheds a little light on the home defense issue - as far as the criminals are concerned, the best home defense weapon is a 12 gauge PUMP, and when they hear that chukking sound, almost all of them are all looking for a way to be somewhere else quickly! The brand or barrel length or looks don't really matter in the dark, but the sound is extremely recognizable, ...and induces great fear!

Armed N. Free
January 19, 2009, 09:22 AM
Welcome Politicallysober and Gandolfthewise!

I'm an LEO shotgun veteran and carried a Rem Riot gun for years. I always thought it was long and heavy - not exactly ergonomic. Because of that my shooting with it was marginal and I didn't practice much with it.

Now, years later, the cool guns hit the street! I no longer need one for LE, but for home defense my vote definitely goes to the Mossberg 500 Rolling Thunder!

http://www.mossberg.com/press/pdf/45.pdf

I won't go into a full praise chorus here. Just type or paste the link to see why I like it so much! My dealer included the Mossberg Picatinny rail system so I hung a Sig Sauer STL-900L programable / multi function tac light under the muzzle stablizer. I have to say the STL-900L is a little more difficult to acivate than the Streamlight TLR-2 I have on my Beretta CX4-40. But I love the disorienting strobe on the Sig!

I agree with the previously stated preference for a forend hand strap over a front grip. I have a 5+1 capacity and a 15 round (only holds 10 rounds of 12GA) Blackhawk bandoleer strap in case I have a chance or need to reload.

Folding stock? I'm not sure about that. With a 23" barrel and overall length of about 33.5 inches, the "RT" is more manageable and accurate than the short bullpup. I can't take it through a doorway at full horizontal, but I never carried a shotgun that way anyway. The laser is all I need to aquire my target in the dark ( again, I prefer the Streamlight because it has an intermittent or full on switch). After I issue the pump racking sound, the verbal warning and put a red dot on the BG's chest, if they keep coming, I have to figurre it's the drugs and they get 00 buck. 00 is the safest leathal indoor defensive round (gameloads are only leathal at close range). 00 will go through a few sheets of drywall, but not like, say, a 40 cal round (4 sheets, sheathing,vinyl siding and it's still moving!). You have to consider who's in the next room behind your target:uhoh:

Finally, someone mentioned hand to hand. I don't want to go hand to hand, but, if I come face to face with a BG around a tight corner, 6.75 lbs behind the muzzle stablizer in the forehead would ring a person's bell and give you a couple of seconds to back-up. (I've done it before with the metal butt plate on my Rem).

Gandolfthewise; a Judge for CC?? I'm can't think of how I'd concel one of those. Maybe in the winter under a trench coat, but summer CC would be near impossible (especially if you had to wear a suit without a jacket). Beretta PX4 in 40 or 45 is awesome! Nicely contoured, thin and comparatively light. 14 round in my 40 and I stap an extra 17 mag right next to it. Winter carry is an Uncle Mike's Sidekick OWB holster (abidextrous) and summer will be a bellyband up high. If I have to go deeper, I carry my NAA .380 (6 rounds of hollow point) in an Uncle Mike's wallet holster or on my ankle with an extra 10 round entended mag. .380 isin't viewed as a real "knock 'em down" round, but if I have to really hide the thing, I'd rather have to .380 than go "naked". Naked would kill 'em laughing, but it would take longer:D

browncoatdawn
October 26, 2011, 02:38 AM
So, if I had a Mossberg 930 semi auto, could I legally build a bullpup around this action? I have 2 of these, one of which I won, and I have been curious about it for a while. I can fab up an aluminum stock/housing and make my own linkage without a problem. I understand the barrel length can't be under 18.5 inches, and over all length can't be below 26 inches.
I currently live in Iowa, and being in a wheelchair, I just thought that this would make it a bit more easily handled.

If you enjoyed reading about "Mossberg 500 Bullpup 12 ga legal?" here in TheHighRoad.org archive, you'll LOVE our community. Come join TheHighRoad.org today for the full version!