[Andrew S]

Had to help my parents move to AZ this weekend. My roomate drove and took his Glock along in the glove box. The moving sucked of course but then on the way home he got pulled over for speeding. When asked for the usual license, registration, and insurance my roomate let him know there was a loaded handgun in the glove box with it and asked for permission to get in there. We got it and the information out and handed all of it to the patrolman. He took my roomate back to the police car where he checked the weapon and my roomates background. When checking the weapon though he kept pointing it at traffic. :uhoh: He even pointed it at my roomate a couple times and himself once when looking for the serial number. VERY scary practices. Especially when the road was cut into the mountain and pointing it in the other direction would have been a nice and safe wall of dirt. Even my roomates wife said something to me about it as she watched from the back seat.

We cant complain too much because we left safe and sound with only a warning and slightly elevated blood pressure :)

[Standing Wolf]

Only the police and military are qualified to have guns.

[The Freeholder]

Ah, that Glock wouldn't happen to be a .40, would it? :evil:

[Crosshair]

This is why I keep my handgun under the seat.

[AZRickD]

I have a visor organizer where all of my cool stuff goes.

Rick

[JohnKSa]

This is why I have repeatedly posted on this forum and others that a gun in the glove box is a bad idea.

[TABING]

If that Glock wasn't in a holster or recognizable pistol case, you're lucky to leave with just a warning. In AZ, if it's in the glovebox, it's supposed to be in a holster, "two moves" from use (unless you have a CCW).

It's just easier to keep it in full view on the seat or console which is OK in open carry AZ. I ususally keep mine in the door pocket cause I have a CCW. It's a good idea to keep guns and car papers separate.

One other small point, if it's concealed on the passenger side, and the passenger has access to it, but doesn't have a CCW, then it's a violation.

[Alex45ACP]

I had the exact same experience. The cop had the gun pointed right at my knee when he took the magazine out :rolleyes: At least I didn't get a ticket. I keep the gun in a different compartment in the car now, so if I get pulled over the cop doesn't even need to know about it.

[CAPTAIN MIKE]

I concur that it's not such a wise idea to keep your sidearm in a glove compartment. It's better in a holster on your hip.

I too keep all my registration, insurance, etc. in a visor above my head, and when stopped I would not suggest you use the word "gun" -- lest you cause an adrenaline rush to the officer.

Instead, keep your hands at 10 and 2 o'clock, say "Yes Sir' etc. and indicate to him that you are a 'licensed CCW permit holder' and that your 'sidearm' (better word than gun) is on your strong side hip. Then just ask, "How do you want me to proceed??".

That way, the officer is in charge, you are not using language that makes him nervous but instead are reassuring him that you are indeed one of the Good Guys and will cooperate in letting him Do His Job.

[torpid]

That way, the officer is in charge, you are not using language that makes him nervous but instead are reassuring him that you are indeed one of the Good Guys and will cooperate in letting him Do His Job.

And then keep your fingers crossed that the officer has some semblance of muzzle awareness...

.

[MICHAEL T]

If that Glock wasn't in a holster or recognizable pistol case, you're lucky to leave with just a warning. In AZ, if it's in the glovebox, it's supposed to be in a holster, "two moves" from use (unless you have a CCW).


Will someone show me this law in writing. I have seen it Quoted several times but no one has showed me where is says 2 or 3 moves. I belive its just more miss information that keeps getting past around .

[TABING]

It got passed it on to me by the instructor of the CCW class I attended, later confirmed by a LEO I know. I don't have my course materials with me here, but if LEOs believe it, they are the law on the street, so that's the rule I feel it's prudent to follow.

[lucky_fool]

Will someone show me this law in writing. I have seen it Quoted several times but no one has showed me where is says 2 or 3 moves. I belive its just more miss information that keeps getting past around .

Here's the relevant law in AZ (http://www.azleg.state.az.us/ars/13/03102.htm) (edited for brevity):

13-3102. Misconduct involving weapons; defenses; classification; definitions
A. A person commits misconduct involving weapons by knowingly:
<snip>
2. Carrying a deadly weapon without a permit pursuant to section 13-3112 concealed within immediate control of any person in or on a means of transportation; or
<snip>
F. Subsection A, paragraph 1 of this section shall not apply to a weapon or weapons carried in a belt holster which holster is wholly or partially visible, or carried in a scabbard or case designed for carrying weapons which scabbard or case is wholly or partially visible or carried in luggage. Subsection A, paragraph 2 of this section shall not apply to a weapon or weapons carried in a case, holster, scabbard, pack or luggage that is carried within a means of transportation or within a storage compartment, trunk or glove compartment of a means of transportation.

Your state will vary, in VA it's illegal to have a loaded firearm "hidden from common observation" in a vehicle without a CHP.

[Andrew S]

Ah, that Glock wouldn't happen to be a .40, would it? :evil:


Nah its a Glock 26. His choice...not mine :)


This is why I have repeatedly posted on this forum and others that a gun in the glove box is a bad idea.


Why? I would much rather notify the officer that it is present than to keep it from him and having it under the seat sounds worse than in the glove box to me. Its easier to access and isnt just floating around in the car.





Wearing it during a 6 hour drive wouldnt have been fun. The handgun was in a holster without one in the chamber. My roomate politely notified the officer that it was present while keeping his hands on the stearing wheel. He then asked for permission to retrieve his papers and information. When he did he moved slow and put it on my lap in plain view of the officer while he went through his papers. Everything was fine. There was nothing wrong other than the officer's gun handling. He was friendly and didnt share any advice about doing anything different(other than to stop speeding ;)) They chatted a bit when they were back there and my roomate would have shook his hand if his werent full on his way back.

[JohnKSa]

Why [not have a gun in the glovebox]? I would much rather notify the officer that it is present than to keep it from him and having it under the seat sounds worse than in the glove box to me. Its easier to access and isnt just floating around in the car.Most new cars offer more options for gun storage other than just in the glovebox or under the seat, so keeping it out of the glovebox doesn't automatically mean it's "floating around in the car."

Furthermore, in many cases, a cased gun under the seat is quite secure. I have been in a couple of accidents with a gun in the car, under the seat, and in neither situation has the gun moved from its place nor has the case been displaced significantly. I'm not necessarily advocating under the seat as an excellent storage location, just responding to your comment.

The reasons you don't want to leave a gun in the glovebox are:

1. If you are stopped, you will almost always have to access the glovebox in front of the officer. While you may want to notify the officer it is present, he'll probably be a lot more comfortable (and therefore you will probably be a lot more comfortable) if you don't have to reach toward it to get your insurance/registration/whatever. Not keeping the gun in the glovebox doesn't prevent you from notifying the officer nor does it automatically mean you must keep it from him.

2. It gives you the OPTION of not telling the officer about the firearm. In many cases, you are not legally required to inform the officer you are armed. Generally speaking, if you don't have to tell an LEO something, you're probably better off if you don't start volunteering information. Especially information that may be incriminating, may make it more likely you will be hassled, or which may result in you sitting by the side of the road while an officer demonstrates his poor gun handling skills. Remember, while an officer may be competent to handle his own gun, it's likely that your gun won't be familiar to him. Do you want to stand nearby while a person handles an unfamiliar loaded gun? From your story, I assumed that you don't.

3. If somebody breaks into your vehicle, they will almost certainly check the glovebox even if they don't look anywhere else.

4. While a gun in the glovebox is quite accessible to the passenger, it is not particularly easy for the driver to reach it.

5. There are typically lots of THINGS in the glovebox that probably don't need to be stored in the same container with a loaded gun. Especially if the gun is not holstered or cased.

There are probably more, but that's a good start.

[winddummy]

Just because a police Officer has received training and qualified on the range, doesn't mean they are knowledgeable. For example, when NYC converted to Glocks they had sereral discharge there weapon while attempting to clean it and this was after they went through training and qualification. A good number of plice officers were not brought up around weapons and only touched them the first time at there acadamey. In the times I've been pulled over in my state, when the officer runs you licence and he's notified that I'm a CCW holder, untill that point I keep my hands up high on the steering wheel and the weapon on my side in it's holster.

[Powderman]

I see one thing constant in this thread, and to tell you the truth, it kinda scares me.

That is the part where you hand the officer the weapon

BAD, BAD, BAD, BAD move!

If you are stopped, and you inform the officer you are carrying, and the officer says to
"hand it over", DO NOT, UNDER ANY CIRCUMSTANCES, PUT YOUR HANDS NEAR THE FIREARM.

The RIGHT way to do it is this:

"Officer, I hear and understand you. But, I don't feel comfortable handling this gun right now, and I would rather that you get it. What do you want me to do?"

Any officer that has you unholster and HAND THE GUN TO THEM :what: :eek: :what: :eek: is a funeral waiting to happen.

Be safe!

[GregGry]

I see one thing constant in this thread, and to tell you the truth, it kinda scares me.

That is the part where you hand the officer the weapon

BAD, BAD, BAD, BAD move!

If you are stopped, and you inform the officer you are carrying, and the officer says to
"hand it over", DO NOT, UNDER ANY CIRCUMSTANCES, PUT YOUR HANDS NEAR THE FIREARM.

The RIGHT way to do it is this:

"Officer, I hear and understand you. But, I don't feel comfortable handling this gun right now, and I would rather that you get it. What do you want me to do?"

Any officer that has you unholster and HAND THE GUN TO THEM :what: :eek: :what: :eek: is a funeral waiting to happen.

Be safe!

Yeah my thoughts exactly :what:

[MAURICE]

Carry my Glock&Wesson SW40VE in the center console of my vehicle. When I am out and about it is either the SA UC9 or Colt 1991a1 on the hip. Keep the one in the console simply because it is easier to get to while seated/buckled up.

[Andrew S]

Most new cars offer more options for gun storage other than just in the glovebox or under the seat, so keeping it out of the glovebox doesn't automatically mean it's "floating around in the car."

Furthermore, in many cases, a cased gun under the seat is quite secure. I have been in a couple of accidents with a gun in the car, under the seat, and in neither situation has the gun moved from its place nor has the case been displaced significantly. I'm not necessarily advocating under the seat as an excellent storage location, just responding to your comment.

The reasons you don't want to leave a gun in the glovebox are:

1. If you are stopped, you will almost always have to access the glovebox in front of the officer. While you may want to notify the officer it is present, he'll probably be a lot more comfortable (and therefore you will probably be a lot more comfortable) if you don't have to reach toward it to get your insurance/registration/whatever. Not keeping the gun in the glovebox doesn't prevent you from notifying the officer nor does it automatically mean you must keep it from him.

2. It gives you the OPTION of not telling the officer about the firearm. In many cases, you are not legally required to inform the officer you are armed. Generally speaking, if you don't have to tell an LEO something, you're probably better off if you don't start volunteering information. Especially information that may be incriminating, may make it more likely you will be hassled, or which may result in you sitting by the side of the road while an officer demonstrates his poor gun handling skills. Remember, while an officer may be competent to handle his own gun, it's likely that your gun won't be familiar to him. Do you want to stand nearby while a person handles an unfamiliar loaded gun? From your story, I assumed that you don't.

3. If somebody breaks into your vehicle, they will almost certainly check the glovebox even if they don't look anywhere else.

4. While a gun in the glovebox is quite accessible to the passenger, it is not particularly easy for the driver to reach it.

5. There are typically lots of THINGS in the glovebox that probably don't need to be stored in the same container with a loaded gun. Especially if the gun is not holstered or cased.

There are probably more, but that's a good start.

1. True. Under the seat in my vehicle and his would not be good though. His is probably impossible due to space restrictions. It would just slide out from mine. Nothing is as secure while remaining accessible as the glove box in either car.

2. Yes it does. It just isnt a priority of mine. It would have been nice to avoid the officer's carelessness though.

3. This isnt a permanent place for the weapon. It was the in reach storage while we drove to where we were going. If they break in...thats what the weapon is for.

4. Its much easier than under the seat.

5. Not in either of our cars and the weapon was holstered.


I see your points applying to some people. But for others they simply arent applicable or not that important. Every place in every vehicle have their own advantages and disadvantages. For us the glove box the best compromise and I am sure it is for many others too.

And I am still confident that if the officer would have preferred it to have been handled differently or stored in another location he would have said something instead of sending us on our way.

[Andrew S]

I see one thing constant in this thread, and to tell you the truth, it kinda scares me.

That is the part where you hand the officer the weapon

BAD, BAD, BAD, BAD move!

If you are stopped, and you inform the officer you are carrying, and the officer says to
"hand it over", DO NOT, UNDER ANY CIRCUMSTANCES, PUT YOUR HANDS NEAR THE FIREARM.

The RIGHT way to do it is this:

"Officer, I hear and understand you. But, I don't feel comfortable handling this gun right now, and I would rather that you get it. What do you want me to do?"

Any officer that has you unholster and HAND THE GUN TO THEM :what: :eek: :what: :eek: is a funeral waiting to happen.

Be safe!

He instructed me to hand it to him and you wanted me to say no?

I did not unholster it. I grabbed it by the barrel very slowly and handed it to him just as he asked. I was perfectly comfortable following his directions.

If you were a LEO would your rather have your hand on your sidearm ready for a problem or reaching in for a weapon and losing mobility and field of vision? He handled the situation in a way that he was comfortable. We complied. That is the most important thing if you ask me.




I see a lot of suggestions here. Some saying we should not obey the LEO's commands. How many of you are actual LEOs? How many are making assumptions without any experience?

[Husker1911]

If you're pulled over, immediately hand the officer your driver's license, registration, and insurance info. Give him/her something to do, rather than deciding if or what citations to issue! Be polite, and you might generate a warning, rather than a citation. Keeping these documents in a visor wallet is much more efficient than anything in your glove box.

[Andrew S]

If you're pulled over, immediately hand the officer your driver's license, registration, and insurance info. Give him/her something to do, rather than deciding if or what citations to issue! Be polite, and you might generate a warning, rather than a citation. Keeping these documents in a visor wallet is much more efficient than anything in your glove box.


Actually, officers suggest you to remain still with your hands on the stearing wheel and wait for their instructions. The way I see it if I am getting pulled over I did something wrong. I am not the type of person who will try and weasel my way out of something I know I did wrong. If he is going to ticket me I am going to take it accept what I did.

I do agree with the visor wallet thing. I would like to get one.

[Husker1911]

Actually, officers suggest you to remain still with your hands on the stearing wheel and wait for their instructions. The way I see it if I am getting pulled over I did something wrong. I am not the type of person who will try and weasel my way out of something I know I did wrong. If he is going to ticket me I am going to take it accept what I did.

I do agree with the visor wallet thing. I would like to get one.
Being polite is "weasel my way out of something?" Please.

Agree about remaining still in the vehicle. Reaching over to your glove box is not good prior planning.

[Andrew S]

Being polite is "weasel my way out of something?" Please.

Agree about remaining still in the vehicle. Reaching over to your glove box is not good prior planning.


Being polite isnt and thats not was I was referring to. As I said, we were all very polite. We did this to show respect not to get out of a ticket.

I was referring to the "Give him/her something to do, rather than deciding if or what citations to issue!" I am willing to accept any citation that the officer feels apropriate if I get pulled over. He is busting me on my mistake. I dont feel the need to do anything to convince him one way or the other. Sure I would appreciate a warning but if I get a ticket its my own fault.

I admit I might have read a bit too much into what you were saying. Rereading it I got a different feel the second time.

[Lupinus]

If the gun is anywhere near where I need to reach to get him what he asks for I would tell him, which is why I'd do my best to not store it in that area I'd have to reach for like the glove box. If I had one on my hip I'd let him know before reaching for my wallet. All in all if it's in an area I need to go he will know about it. If it isn't he wont because there is absoloutly no need for him to know so long as it isn't where I'd come in contact with it durring the stop.

[USMCsilver]

This is why I keep my handgun under the seat.

That's illegal here in SC even with a CWP. Has to be on the person (if a CWP holder) or in the dash/glove compartment for a non CWP holder (or for a CWP holder if he desires).

[Powderman]

Answers interspersed.

He instructed me to hand it to him and you wanted me to say no?

For your safety, YES. How do you know that the officer's partner, who would be standing out of your field of view, did not hear him or her tell you to hand them the gun? Suddenly, they see you with a firearm in your hand. What do you think it going to happen?
I did not unholster it. I grabbed it by the barrel very slowly and handed it to him just as he asked. I was perfectly comfortable following his directions.

If you were a LEO would your rather have your hand on your sidearm ready for a problem or reaching in for a weapon and losing mobility and field of vision? He handled the situation in a way that he was comfortable. We complied. That is the most important thing if you ask me.

And if he had an FTO that was out there with him, he would have had his but handed to him on a plate. Reaching in for a weapon? Nope. That's not the way it should be done.

And as for having a hand on your sidearm, if I let you get a firearm in your hand, then I am now faced with drawing against a drawn gun. Think about it.

Moreover, in a timed study done by Calibre Press--one of the companies that deals with a lot of officer safety issues--it was proven, over and over again that a person seated in a car with their gun in hand can get a shot off at an officer standing outside the car in NINE HUNDREDTHS OF A SECOND. That's faster than most people can BLINK.


I see a lot of suggestions here. Some saying we should not obey the LEO's commands. How many of you are actual LEOs? How many are making assumptions without any experience?

I'll simply refer you to my profile. :)

[jtward01]

Here in Florida we can carry a gun in the car as long as it's in a secured enclosure, which includes a holster, zippered soft case, glove box, center console, cardboard box or whatever. The glove box/console does not have to be locked. The gun just can't be "immediately accessable" as though it were concealed on the body (for non-CWP holders).

On those few occassions when I feel the need to carry a gun in the car I use a zippered soft case which I slide into the map pocket on the back of the passenger's seat. I leave the zipper open enough that I can slip my hand in and withdraw the pistol. If I ever get stopped by a LEO all I'll need to do is reach over and pull the zipper closed and voila', all's legal.

[Andrew S]

I value your input as a LEO then. A civilian telling me not to comply with directions of a LEO would have just been just silly to me.

No partner. Direct conversation with the single officer. I followed his instructions with caution.

Forgive my ignorance but what does FTO stand for? How would he retrieve it without reaching into the car then? The way I see it there are two ways for him to acquire the weapon. One being me handing it to him and two being him reaching in and getting it. If you have another way it might illustrate your point better.

I have thought about it and he has full vision of the vehicle and the benefit of mobility outside of the vehicle. I am sure that nine hundredths of a second wasnt with a firearm that was holstered in a persons lap with his hands at his side and the officer telling him how to grab the gun. He had full control of the situation and could have pulled on me and/or moved to safety well before i even touched the gun if I did something wrong.

[Mr_Moore]

One other small point, if it's concealed on the passenger side, and the passenger has access to it, but doesn't have a CCW, then it's a violation.

Woah, I never thought of that. Thanks for the info.

[Powderman]

I value your input as a LEO then. A civilian telling me not to comply with directions of a LEO would have just been just silly to me.

No partner. Direct conversation with the single officer. I followed his instructions with caution.

Forgive my ignorance but what does FTO stand for? How would he retrieve it without reaching into the car then? The way I see it there are two ways for him to acquire the weapon. One being me handing it to him and two being him reaching in and getting it. If you have another way it might illustrate your point better.

I have thought about it and he has full vision of the vehicle and the benefit of mobility outside of the vehicle. I am sure that nine hundredths of a second wasnt with a firearm that was holstered in a persons lap with his hands at his side and the officer telling him how to grab the gun. He had full control of the situation and could have pulled on me and/or moved to safety well before i even touched the gun if I did something wrong.

FTO stands for Field Training Officer. This is the cop that you see right after you graduate from the academy, who instructs you on department policy, and makes sure that you are able to do the job before you're out on your own.

Now, as to how I have done it, I have a simple rule of thumb:

The folks with CCW are more than likely the good guys. I take that stance because a valid CCW tells me that you have already gone through a background check, and that you are law abiding. That is the main reason that if and when you are stopped by a LEO, you should inform them that you have a CPL/CCW/permit to carry.

Usually, what I hear is this:

"OK, officer, but before I reach for my license, you should know that I have a valid CCW, I am armed (quick location description follows), and I have to reach past it to get my information. What do you want me to do?"

A giveaway that the vehicle I am approaching might be a good guy is that the hands are in plain sight--ALWAYS.

If the firearm is holstered, I tell them to go ahead and give me the license/registration.

If the firearm is in the glove compartment, and they tell me the registration is in there, I say, "OK. Let's just leave it there, then, and let me see your license, please." From that point, I am watching that glove compartment like a hawk. The license check sounds like this:

"N104, with a name."

(Dispatch) "Go ahead"

"Last of xxxx, first of xxxx, middle initial xx, for xxx, date of birth xx-xx-of-xxxx; check CPL, please."

About 10 seconds later:

"N104"

"Go ahead"

""Subject is clear, all ways, CPL valid until xxxx"

My usual traffic in this case is:

"Thank you. I'll be cleared with advisory/warning."

I return the license, tell them to slow down, and be careful.

(Translation: Unless you are REALLY boning up, I usually issue warnings anyway.) :D :D

[AZLibertarian]

Just my 2 cents...

I glued a cheapy holster into the center console and keep my BHP there. The console stays closed unless and until a LEO wants to see it.

I also have blown up a copy of my driver's license and CCW and keep this on the visor over my head. I show this first to the LEO before reaching for either my wallet or the glovebox.