SHTF-run and grab, which one?


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HI express
December 13, 2005, 02:56 AM
This scenario is based on a a real life.. and death situation that happened to a friend. Just like to hear your opinion and input.

Let us say that you just got home from work. Your SO is in the living room waiting for you to shower and change so that you can out out to dinner. You put your weapon away so that you can shower. While you are showering. Some BGs try to force a home invasion. Your SO screams and you come out to see her crouching down behind the sofa, looking out of the front window. You duck down and look at where she is looking. Suddenly a couple of Molatov cocktails hit the front porch with one breaking the window and starting a fire inside the house. Then a volley of gun fire starts hitting the house. You peer out from behind cover and you see several BGs shooting at your house. You peer out the back window and see that there is a possible avenue of escape.

You get some clothes on quickly. Yell at your SO that you are going out the back way. the fire is spreading rapidly inside of your house. You have to get out of the house if you are going to survive.

You grab a weapon... The question is which gun do you take with you? What else do you take with you on your way out of your burning house?
:cuss:

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entropy
December 13, 2005, 04:06 AM
I'd probably grab what's loaded and ready;The 870 and the 1911. Then I'd wonder who the heck I pissed off that much.

Just curious; why would home invaders torch the place? Kinda like crappin' on your dinner before you eat it, eh?:scrutiny:

Ala Dan
December 13, 2005, 04:18 AM
I would try to grab my Colt AR15A3 and one of my 1911's. Then proceed to
an area of safety and look for the perps, before the fire department and
police units arrive. If found it probably would resemble the days of the old
wild and wooley west~!:uhoh: :D

Ala Dan
December 13, 2005, 04:18 AM
I would try to grab my Colt AR15A3 and one of my 1911's. Then proceed to
an area of safety and look for the perps, before the fire department and
police units arrive. If found it probably would resemble the days of the old
wild and wooley west~!:uhoh: :D

MTMilitiaman
December 13, 2005, 05:00 AM
WASR-10 and a couple of 30 round magazines.
Glock 20 and a couple of 15 round mags.
Cell phone.
Truck keys...mostly cause there is a Yugo SKS in the truck :)

chopinbloc
December 13, 2005, 05:41 AM
i'm sorry but i wouldn't have responded that way. i would have skipped the clothes and grabbed the bushmaster. on my way out, i would have told my girly to call 911 and put the fire out. if the thugs were still anywhere remotely close, i'd have smoked 'em. sorry but that's the way it is. before you complain about the legal issues, in az you can shoot someone for arson of an occupied structure. if it weren't legal, i still might shoot them. i would assist with the fire as quickly as it was safe. it is unlikely that we couldn't control the fire from two molotovs with the two fire extinguishers we have. i didn't buy one of those stupid little kiddie one for a stovetop fire. i got a 25lb and a 15lb. between those and a garden hose, we ought to be able to control it. if, for some bizarre reason we were unable to, i don't think i'd be able to let the m1a burn up.

MTMilitiaman
December 13, 2005, 06:39 AM
i'm sorry but i wouldn't have responded that way. i would have skipped the clothes and grabbed the bushmaster. on my way out, i would have told my girly to call 911 and put the fire out. if the thugs were still anywhere remotely close, i'd have smoked 'em. sorry but that's the way it is. before you complain about the legal issues, in az you can shoot someone for arson of an occupied structure. if it weren't legal, i still might shoot them. i would assist with the fire as quickly as it was safe. it is unlikely that we couldn't control the fire from two molotovs with the two fire extinguishers we have. i didn't buy one of those stupid little kiddie one for a stovetop fire. i got a 25lb and a 15lb. between those and a garden hose, we ought to be able to control it. if, for some bizarre reason we were unable to, i don't think i'd be able to let the m1a burn up.

Leaving a burning house seems pretty smart to me, especially if you are also being shot out from outside. I would get my family out of the burning house, get some lead out until the badguys had evacuated the area or were dead, then concentrate on the flames. But running around with water buckets and a hose isn't a valid defensive strategy IMO until the gunmen have been dealt with. In the meantime, I don't want my family anywhere near bullets or burning buildings. If I have a way to get them out of the area before dealing with either threat, I am going to take it.

Darth Ruger
December 13, 2005, 06:50 AM
This scenario is based on a a real life and death situation that happened to a friend. So what did your friend do?

TexasRifleman
December 13, 2005, 09:34 AM
So what did your friend do?

More importantly, what did your friend do to have people mad enough to torch the house? Tossing Molotov cocktails through the windows seems to move outside the norm for a "home invasion", unless it was in Rwanda or Serbia.

hso
December 13, 2005, 10:15 AM
Rifle is preferable to shotgun is preferable to handgun

Why is the wife cowering behind the couch instead of calling 911 and grabbing a gun?

Why would you assume that the back is clear if they're trying to burn you out and are shooting up the house? These folks are trying to kill you and your family. I should assume they're covering the doors so I'd take a side window out.

6inch
December 13, 2005, 12:10 PM
I can't help but think the perps in this scenario are idiots. :rolleyes:

Obviously the intention was is to kill the inhabitants so why not just ring the door bell, kill the person who answers then storm the house?

With all the ruchus there guys made surely a neighbor would have called 911 and the cops would have been there ASAP!

Okay, now that I've got that off my chest. I'd grab my AR15 (M4) and a pouch of three 30 round mags. :)

Rupestris
December 13, 2005, 12:29 PM
Cocktailing a house is/was a tactic used by gang members in Urban areas.

Step one - toss cocktail in house.

Step two - wait for those inside to exit the burning house.

Step three - open fire.

Step four - drive on.

Usually a tactic used between rival drug houses. At least thats whatI've been told.

DigitalWarrior
December 13, 2005, 12:32 PM
Molotovs and incoming fire, I probably reported their buddy to the police for stealing a car or something. They are not playing nice-nice, so neither would I.

If I have a rifle and 30 rounds ready to go, good on me. If not the loaded 1911 with CT grips and 2 spare mags in the shoulder rig is Good Enough (tm)

Wife stays inside stays low, calls in support.

I am out the back after taking 5 seconds to have a looksy. Have a hearty shout of "Oh Lord, My God..." to see if I have any real good friends in the area as I run.

Begin to Flank BGs.

Hope to hell that they do not want me to use all 25 rounds.

D\/\/
BTW, does anyone know if there is a 1911 in the good old 357?

chaim
December 13, 2005, 12:55 PM
In Baltimore a scenario like that has happened to a few people who testified against drug gangs (one high profile situation ended with an entire family dead, another ended with them somehow surviving).

Anyway, I'm not sure if I'd run out the back door as my first choice. As already stated, they may have people covering the back- the fire and random gunfire from the front may simply be to push you out the back where they can kill you. Even if they aren't covering the back you are now in the open. A house may not be cover with modern building materials but it sure is concealment.

That said, I also don't want to stay in a burning house. I'd try to put the fire out. If I couldn't there wouldn't be a choice but to leave through the back door.

I would grab my Taurus PT140 Milennium Pro because it is my highest capacity handgun that is always loaded (I assume there will be multiple attackers in this situation), though if it is loaded I'm grabbing my CZ 75 instead (more rounds). I'm also grabbing one of my rifles- the one always loaded is my .45LC Winchester 94, but in this situation I think I'd prefer my SKS and while unloaded it does have a few stripper clips stored next to it.

So, if the fire is out I'm taking that SKS and going to a 2nd floor window (don't stand in front of the window, stand off a little to the side or a little behind it) and see if I can see where the gunfire is coming from. If I can see the shooters they're getting a 7.62x39 COM or to the head (depending upon distance). If I can't, I guess I'll have to wait for the cops (too many other houses around where I live to just randomly fire).

If I didn't get the fire out, I'll go out first (family members behind me) and watch carefully for shooters waiting out back. If there are any bad guys in the back, and they miss, they too will get a 7.62x39 to greet them.

TallPine
December 13, 2005, 01:10 PM
You put your weapon away so that you can shower.
Well now - there is the first mistake :p

Black Majik
December 13, 2005, 01:16 PM
Thats why you bring a Glock with you into the shower. And you can take the Glock with you as you bug out, so that your Glock doesn't melt as it was confirmed by some of THR members. ESPECIALLY in SHTF situations :evil:

Actually let me take that back. I'd take the 1911, the Glock can melt away. I wont care. :D

Darth Ruger
December 13, 2005, 01:23 PM
You put your weapon away so that you can shower.Well now - there is the first mistake :pDitto. I've heard stories about people that had a break-in when they were in the shower (your friend is the latest example). So, since I carry at home all the time anyway, when I get in the shower my Glock is in it's holster hanging on a towel hook right next to the shower door. When I'm done, it goes back on me.

Hutch
December 13, 2005, 02:18 PM
Seems awfully unlikely that two law-abiding citizens residing in the US would be confronted with such an assault. Where did this take place?

MudPuppy
December 13, 2005, 02:29 PM
I'm taking the AMD-63 with a 30 rdr. Maybe the handgun, but that's a distant second to the rifle. (Of course, I'd have to contend with the danger of LEO showing up and smoking me!)

Coonan used to make a 1911 style in 357 Mag. I don't know of anything else that is close.

Camp David
December 13, 2005, 02:34 PM
Suddenly a couple of Molatov cocktails hit the front porch with one breaking the window...You grab a weapon... The question is which gun...

I crouch low, reaching up only to yank the trusted lanyard on the 20lb Napolean, which is preloaded and preaimed streetward with double cannister shot, and watch with amusement as seven neighborhood kids are mowed down like grass on the front lawn!

:p

Gunblast
December 13, 2005, 02:42 PM
I suggest a good AR-15. This better explains my position:

http://www.gunblast.com/Homeland_Security.htm

Jeff Quinn
gunblast.com

Borachon
December 13, 2005, 04:56 PM
Grab first: My cell phone....to call for backup. ( I want to call the police myself so that I know its been done and I want to be talking to the police dispatcher when the police arrive so I can describe myself...as a homeowner.)

Grab second: My SO.

Grab third: Firearm of some sort...hand cell phone to SO. (Drop firearm when police arrive.)

f4t9r
December 13, 2005, 04:58 PM
AR 15 and a P220 sig

LETS PARTY :D

Black Majik
December 13, 2005, 04:59 PM
Grab first: My cell phone.

Grab second: My SO.

Grab third: Firearm of some sort...hand cell phone to SO.

First thing I'm handing my SO would be a GUN.....

Too Many Choices!?
December 13, 2005, 05:16 PM
10 1/2" PDW, with two coupled 30 round mags, holo sight, Glock 23 with 15 rounder, spare 10 rounder, and I would be out the door to flank the firers:). I would shoot with reckless abandon, reducing the drag coefficient of anybody pointing a firerm at my home(hell maybe pop the neighbor too, depending wich one:evil: ). I figure anybody with common sense, will have gotten to cover at the sound of handgun fire, anybody left standing there after shots ring out is an instant winner of a life time (all 15-30seconds left of it)supply of lead poisining:neener:, as there failure to flee would make me believe they are perps, otherwise invloved, or a blissninny too stupid to head for the hills(meaning no big loss if accidentaly hit:))

Janitor
December 13, 2005, 05:31 PM
Wife stays inside stays low, calls in support.
Speaking as someone who was a fireman, way back when they were going to live forever:

If staying inside a burning building is her only choice, make sure that she has another within a minute or two at the very most. Sooner would be better. Think fast. Once a fire gets rolling, things happen very, very quickly.

Calling in support is always a popular favorite.
-

engineer151515
December 13, 2005, 05:48 PM
Using your scenario - and assuming I don't have to carry the wife out of the burning house ... I have two immediate choices stored side by side and would attempt to grab both - handing one to the wife.


Kimber Polymer Stainless (14 rounds 45ACP) which is stored with a "6-pack" nylon magazine holder (84 more rounds).

Glock 17 with night sights and tactical light - 17 rounds 9mm, in a nylon holster with pocket (17 more rounds) and a "6 pack" mag holder (102 more rounds).


I would not feel disadvantaged if I had to choose only one of the above.

another okie
December 13, 2005, 06:07 PM
"Just curious; why would home invaders torch the place? Kinda like crappin' on your dinner before you eat it, eh?"

+1. Reminds me of the old cartoon that showed some Vikings looking at a burning town and saying, "Remember, pillage first, then burn!"

Mot45acp
December 13, 2005, 06:30 PM
Let's open the can a lil bit farther. What if...... The BG's were zombies with the abilities to make molitovs and function firearms?:evil:

R.W.Dale
December 13, 2005, 07:03 PM
http://i3.photobucket.com/albums/y96/krochus/tinfoil_hat.gif

garrett1955
December 13, 2005, 07:41 PM
I would grab my WASR-10!!!! they are scary looking!!!!:)

geekWithA.45
December 13, 2005, 07:49 PM
If I'd done anything to piss off a drug gang, I'd have already installed anti-grenade netting in the windows, motion sensor klieg lights, and put the ARs into standby mode.

MrMex
December 13, 2005, 09:19 PM
I suggest a good AR-15. This better explains my position:

http://www.gunblast.com/Homeland_Security.htm

Jeff Quinn
gunblast.com


Come on Jeff, why don't you tell us what you're really thinking.:D

BTW, nice site. Could be a little more organized but still very informative.

Brian Dale
December 13, 2005, 09:30 PM
per Gwa.45:grenade netting in the windows, motion sensor klieg lights,+1, +1.

I grab the M1 and a bandolier of clipped ammo; they're attacking from outside of the house, not inside the room. She grabbed the short-stocked Model 11 (that fits her) and a pouch of 12-ga. slugs when the attack began.

One thing at a time: pull the sprinkler handle on the way out {this is in my dream house, right?}. Get to cover behind the house, then call 911 on cell.

Black92LX
December 13, 2005, 09:47 PM
personally i would have the SO go wait by the backdoor with her gun of course. For a quick escape when the time wise right. I would grab the AK and be picking people off from th front window before i just went running outside. sounds like more of a trap to get me to come running outside, so I would stay inside as long as possible. And take out as many folks as I could before I thought about heading outside.

ctdonath
December 14, 2005, 12:55 AM
I'm in the shower when this hits? As situated right now,
- Grab M590AOW
- Move wife down hall
- Grab car keys
- Grab AR15 in case
- Out door, 590 first, clear stairwell
- Remove AR from case, load & shoulder
- Hand 590 to wife
- Partway down stairwell
- Eliminate visible perps
- Cross floor
- Partway down other stairwell
- Eliminate visible perps
- Out to available vehicle
- Vacate area
- Get dressed.

chopinbloc
December 14, 2005, 04:47 AM
when i was in basic training, one method they taught us for clearing bunkers was to roll a cooked off grenade in the front and spin around so as to shoot troops in the back as they evacuate the bunker.

But running around with water buckets and a hose isn't a valid defensive strategy IMO until the gunmen have been dealt with.

this is true but running out is untenanble and letting the house burn down around your ears is equally foolish. therefore, i'll drop targets as quickly as possible, thereby taking attention away from my lady friend while she puts out the fires with a FIRE EXTINGUISHER. the scenario said two molotovs. it should not be difficult to put those fires out. it also suggests there isn't an angry horde outside. if there were more incediaries and/or more thugs, escape might be a higher priority but one still needs to remember that is probably the intent of your attacker.

oh, and the glock 23 is always on the toilette tank when i shower, though it would only be in my hand on my way from the shower to the rifle. also, to be completely honest, my lady would probably be laying down fire first, not cowering behind a couch so i'd probably be the one putting out the fires and calling 911. once the fires were out, i would definitely adress any remaining targets.

two ar-15s can lay down a remarkable volume of accurate fire.

BullfrogKen
December 14, 2005, 05:21 AM
chaim, I recall that story in Baltimore. Didn't WBAL AM1090 and host Ron Smith cover than quite a bit? Something about how a family watched as their mother was killed by a drug gang on the sidewalk?

"Just curious; why would home invaders torch the place? Kinda like crappin' on your dinner before you eat it, eh?"

In this real life case, it was done for what might be described as "witness tampering". The defendants wanted the witnesses DEAD.

I recall Audy Murpheys' Medal of Honor citation involved him jumping onto the back of a burning hulk which was previously of a tank destroyer, and engaging a company of Germans with the mounted M2 .50 cal. The flames were licking around him, and he was standing on top of a powderkeg, one man making a difference, refusing to give up. He just kinda felt someone needed to do it.

Fire in my house? I hope it doesn't hit the powder magazine. I've got 3 extinguishers, and I hope they'll help some. Otherwise, if the house is still taking fire, and I gotta go: Collect up the Jacks, grab the AK and whatever Commander is loaded and closer, wife probably get the Hi-Power and the other Jacks, and we make our way out to the neighbors to regroup.

belton-deer-hunter
December 14, 2005, 12:48 PM
all ia ma saying is this is why you keep your own molitov cocktails in the house it is easy to spot the car running down the road on fire. :cuss:

next i would grad a good little gun like a .17 that the perps couldnt locate like for my .22 i have some powderless bullets filleed with propane now whne the first one falls the others will be trying to find out why. in their state of confusion i would be able to drop another and then another. until only a few remained then i would bring out the .45 1911 and clear house until only one is left and i want him alive i want to find out why my house iss burning down around me and as for my SO she made her way out the back with me carrying the mossy

chaim
December 14, 2005, 01:37 PM
chaim, I recall that story in Baltimore. Didn't WBAL AM1090 and host Ron Smith cover than quite a bit? Something about how a family watched as their mother was killed by a drug gang on the sidewalk?

Nope. There have been several related incidents in Baltimore over the past few years. Heck, a year ago drug gangs even put out a hit DVD in Baltimore to threaten "snitches" with an NBA star in one of the featured roles ( http://www.citypaper.com/film/review.asp?id=4233 , here is the Yahoo search for info about it: http://search.yahoo.com/search?p=stop+snitches+dvd+baltimore&fr=FP-tab-web-t&toggle=1&cop=&ei=UTF-8 )

There is a campaign in Baltimore to threaten and discourage informers and even non-gang members who simply call the police. When that doesn't work there have been a series of murders and attacks, some mirroring the topic of this thread.

About the high profile attack a few years ago that left a family dead (or rather about the court case of the attackers): http://www.baltimoresun.com/about/bal-te.md.fire18oct18,0,6067188.story

Here's one that's much more recent: http://www.baltimoresun.com/news/local/bal-md.harwood13dec13,1,15040.story

TomN
December 14, 2005, 09:28 PM
First thing I'd do would be to activate the claymores in the front yard. Then the AR15 to take care of anything that might have survived. Then the fire extinguisher to put out the fire and phone to call my insurance company. :D

epijunkie67
December 14, 2005, 11:11 PM
Gee, I must not be as high speed, low drag as most of you guys. Most of my hardware is locked up in safes in the basement since I don't want anyone stealing my stuff if they break in while I'm gone.

That being said, I do keep a few items available for a quick response. There's the FN57 that my GF uses. The PM9 is my carry piece so it's always nearby. The .357 revo is by the bedside and the Mossberg 500 with side saddle is under the bed. If I've got time to grab the holstered S&W 410 in .40 with the spare mag on a belt out of the closet then even better. I could grab everything in under a minute.

I've got to assume the fire is to get me out of the house, usually by going out the back. I'd try to head down the hall to my office ad scan the front instead. We have flip out windows so I'd be able to drop a window, hit the ground behind the bushes and start working my way around the house. In this situation I think the shotgun gives me a slight advantage though I'd like to get the rifle out of the truck if possible for the increased capacity. I just don't think it would be sound tactics to expose myself to fire by trying to get to the vehicle since it would be expected.

GoBrush
December 15, 2005, 01:52 AM
Grab whatever gun you have easy access to. Dont forget your shoes your feet can get cut up real quick and if you need to retreat or run after the bad guys you want to stay mobile.

Wait a minute.

All due respect but I have a hard time believing this could be a random event. A home invasion could be but cocktails and gun fire into a totally random house I dont think so. I am not saying it couldnt happen just not logical at all.

Senerio just sounds off the wall for a radom event.

Sorry!

trickyasafox
December 15, 2005, 02:11 AM
i shower with a ma duece. i'd shoot through the wall and have the SO direct fire from the home security system:scrutiny: :scrutiny: :scrutiny:

Thin Black Line
December 15, 2005, 09:09 AM
You get some clothes on quickly. Yell at your SO that you are going out the back way. the fire is spreading rapidly inside of your house. You have to get out of the house if you are going to survive.

You grab a weapon... The question is which gun do you take with you? What else do you take with you on your way out of your burning house?
:cuss:

I grab my two kids --one under each arm-- who would probably think the
whole thing was rather exciting and afterward ask "Daddy, where are your
clothes?!" What would be even funnier is that there's about 10 inches of
snow on the ground.....

wheelgunslinger
December 15, 2005, 09:36 AM
Get my .45
put on pants
get my cell with bluetooth™ device so I can talk to the cops while on the move
hack through the wall with my axe (I do woodwork as a hobby) into the neighbor's home (it's just drywall...)
dial 911 and let them know i need help.
put my s/o behind cover or get her out of the house.
wait for the cav who would be 5 or so minutes away.
And, provided I lived through it all, hunt the guys down and bring it to their front porch.
Hey, they started it. :neener:

Working Man
December 15, 2005, 10:29 AM
No live in SO so I'm on my own if my roomies are out, otherwise there are
three very angry well armed people to resist in force.

The fire department is about a 2 to 3 minute drive from my place (brick
house) under normal speed so I'm not too worried about the fire unless it is
inside the house. My HK .40 & .45 are always loaded (and available when I'm
home with 1 extra clip each). I may grab the .45-70 (always loaded but
locked up) if I think about it, the noise should cause them pause and I don't
have to worry about them hiding behind something (405 grn @ 1900
fps). :evil:

One of us calls 911 and the other two open fire or one of the two tries to
put it out. I doubt I would bother to dress. Maybe just throw on a pair of boots. :D

Brian Dale
December 15, 2005, 01:36 PM
Hmmm:

An HK .45 in one hand and an HK .40 in the other.

A boot on each foot.

A .45-70 at the ready.

What the well-dressed Working Man is wearing this year while repelling boarders.

Cool. :D

Bravo11
December 15, 2005, 03:12 PM
the scenario said two molotovs. it should not be difficult to put those fires out.

I'm not a fireman and I haven't had any experience with Molitov cocktails but I have seen what happens when a jar of gasoline ignites and explodes and if it happened in a house it would take a lot to put it out. I don't think a hand held extinguisher would do the job.
Burning gasoline does not like to go out.

oh blanky
December 15, 2005, 03:20 PM
So this guy posted this dramatic story on the 13th and hasn't replied?

What the dealeo?

Working Man
December 15, 2005, 04:56 PM
Hmmm:

An HK .45 in one hand and an HK .40 in the other.

A boot on each foot.

A .45-70 at the ready.

What the well-dressed Working Man is wearing this year while repelling boarders.

Cool. :D

Ooops, forgot my hat. :D

jerkface11
December 15, 2005, 05:12 PM
As long as we're being silly I'd just turn this badboy loose on them . http://www.usmechatronics.com/old_page/turret.htm
:D
You could mount it on the roof and have it hooked to a light switch.

goon
December 15, 2005, 05:17 PM
My FAL, 5 loaded mags and Becker BK7 that is on the web gear, and three rifle grenades.
Grenades first, 100 rounds of 7.62x51 for clean up, slice and dice any survivors.
Rinse, lather, repeat.
:D

(No, I don't actually own any rifle grenades. But it is nice to dream.)

Brian Williams
December 15, 2005, 05:25 PM
More than likely it would be my S&W 13 with my Marlin 1894C. My son would have my Win 1300 with its stuff and such. Wifey might have a 22..She doesn't like to shoot.

pete f
December 16, 2005, 02:29 AM
First things first. I slap the alarm button for fire and police, in three seconds i have made the call and I know cops on the way. fire too. we have three remotes and two fixed keypads.

I am not worried too much about the molotovs on the outside. brick lower half, upper half is concrete hardie board siding, windows are all tempered glass so unless they shoot first throw later widows are going to prevent them from entering. porch and house are all sprinklered, I am a contractor and I have seen enough fire damage to mandate it in my home.

I grab previously discussed ready jacket and weapons and head to basement. engage zombies from basement windows. basement has four different exits and two windows.

k_dawg
December 16, 2005, 01:01 PM
my converted Saiga 16" carbine is my SHTF rifle.

With its folding stock, it packs 30rounds 7.62x39r in a package 26 1/8" long. Alot of firepower in a small package. It is also damn reliable, even after sitting for long periods of time without cleaning.

larry_minn
December 17, 2005, 01:15 AM
Running outside is not my first choice. Gun would likely be shotgun and pistol. I have 6 fire Ex inside house. (yes some are 5lb ones but others are 15+) In order to toss bottles in windows they had to work. Narrow windows with screens/tripple pane/etc.
I would attempt to return fire/drive them off as 911 called.

glockamolee
December 17, 2005, 01:37 AM
I wouldn't care to defend a fixed point. I prefer the Sun Tzu method of continual movement.

I WOULD have a medium size region to move in. Too large to find me, yet small enough to have several Caches of weapons. I would physically carry what my upper body strength allows. Right now I can handle a MBR; when I'm sixty it might have to be a lighweight AK.

Pistol would be a hi-power with a .40 AND 9mm barrel
revolver would be a 3" 640.

chopinbloc
December 17, 2005, 06:13 AM
I'm not a fireman and I haven't had any experience with Molitov cocktails but I have seen what happens when a jar of gasoline ignites and explodes and if it happened in a house it would take a lot to put it out. I don't think a hand held extinguisher would do the job.
Burning gasoline does not like to go out.


i'm not a fireman, nor do i play one on television. i have used both CO2 and dry chemical fire extinguishers to put out different types of fire from transmission fluid to grass fires and i'll tell you that a 25lb dry chemical extinguisher is more than enough for two molotovs - usually about 12oz of gasoline each. they have to hit something hard to break in the first place and they usually don't cover an area more than two square feet or so. obviously, if i came out of the shower and the living room was engulfed in flames and my normally hardcore SO was somehow abducted by the bodysnatchers and replaced with a cowering fool than i'd grab her, the ar and the phone in that order and leave post haste. realistically, i'm confident that the two of us can fight off nearly any threat, including two little wussy gas fires. i'd be pissed if they got my handwoven silk pakistani rug, though.

Buzztail
December 17, 2005, 10:12 AM
My first choice would be to grab a fire extinguisher or two. We have several throughout the house. 2nd, bedside ak, and either the 1911, or the speed six that rotate duty on the nightstand. SO would be headed out back with the critters

Illuminaughty
December 19, 2005, 06:38 AM
You know the molotov/waiting firing squad situation makes me think.... are flashbangs legal? Those would sure be handy to throw out the door before you went out in those situations.

chopinbloc
December 19, 2005, 10:34 AM
i don't think civilians can purchase flash bangs, *so how do police departments get em?*:rolleyes: but these smoke grenades might come in handy to conceal your retreat:D
http://x11.putfile.com/12/35208311095.jpg (http://www.putfile.com)

you can get 'em here: http://ammunitionstore.com/

Illuminaughty
December 20, 2005, 04:13 AM
Smokes'd be better than nothing, but cut the whole ability of being able to SNEAK OUT IN OUR DIRECTION out. Sure there's a flash and a bang, but everyone who's there to see it is out for the count. Whereas a big smoke cloud.. Wait... a smoke grenade in a fire? :neener: :neener:

Medusa
December 20, 2005, 06:59 AM
Hmmm, tough call, give the SO the FN57 and fire ex-es (and evacuate to safe zone ith our 1yo if things go pear-shaped), grab the G36K (and yes, as noted once, it has a AG36 40mm GL attached to it with several rounds at hand) and load it with C-mag and it's time to rock&roll, first, grenade into any motorized transport they have (windows are broken by the scenario giving firepoints) and then hose the running bastahds. Yeah, high-speed, low drag. Luckily I have a mostly fireproof stonewalled house &sprinklers, as climate dictates and a firesafe place in it (basement). But as noted, if i had reported any local thugs, i'd be prepared, like a grenade-nets on windows.

yonderway
December 20, 2005, 12:36 PM
I would first make sure that all of the other family members were able to get out, and that the wife had her 72 hour bag. I would grab my own 72 hour bag. If there was time to do it safely, I would grab my Makarov with 2 spare mags, and the Yugoslavian M59/66 SKS with as much ammo as I could toss in my coat pocket (or better yet, a .30 caliber ammo can that I keep stuffed with 7.62x39 already on strippers). Once I was clear of the house, I would find cover that provided me with a good shot against the perps who torched my house.

Both guns are never far from me. The bag is always ready to go. I've got bundles of ammo for both guns placed strategically around my home for an expedient exit. This isn't exactly a stretch of the imagination.

Given a little more time to prepare, I'd probably grab my Savage 10FP-LE2, get a bit further back from my house, and take my time getting a good clean shot on each of the perps from a safe distance.

yonderway
December 20, 2005, 12:37 PM
My first choice would be to grab a fire extinguisher or two. We have several throughout the house. 2nd, bedside ak, and either the 1911, or the speed six that rotate duty on the nightstand. SO would be headed out back with the critters

A residential fire extinguisher ain't gonna do squat against a molotov cocktail. It's like pissin into the wind.

yonderway
December 20, 2005, 12:40 PM
i'll tell you that a 25lb dry chemical extinguisher is more than enough for two molotovs - usually about 12oz of gasoline each

More like a 40 oz malt liquor bottle with a mixture of gasoline and liquid soap. That fire will scatter upon impact, and stick to whatever it hits. It will spread quite rapidly depending on the contents and construction of your home. I'm happy that my home is mostly concrete and steel, but the subflooring is still plywood. :eek:

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