can dryfiring leave a pistol sad?

[thrilldo higgins]

can dryfiring my glock 21 or beretta 92 hurt the pistol or any of the components therein:eek:

[ChristopherG]

No.

Good shooters dryfire. Lots, all the time. (and carefully)

[ZenMasterJG]

if you're concerned about damaging anything, get some snap-caps. Probably a little bit better for the firing pin then dryfiring on an empty chamber.

[atblis]

There are pistols that dry firing can damage.

There are no issues with the Glock.

[ChristopherG]

There are pistols that dry firing can damage.

Yes, rimfires. But Centerfires? I await confirmed examples.

[TexasRifleman]

double tap

[TexasRifleman]

But Centerfires? I await confirmed examples.

Some older designs, especially the SAA type, use a firing pin that is attached to the hammer with a small roll pin or something similar driven in with a punch.

Dry firing these can loosen the firing pin over time and cause it to fall out.
There is nothing in front of the pin when dry fired and the inertia can work this all loose over time. Still takes a long time for it to happen.

That's the only case I've ever seen, all the warnings and rumor to the contrary.

[ChristopherG]

Interesting, TSM--in the spirit of disclosure, I'll add one.

I broke a sear spring on a S&W model 66 in dryfire. Now, I have dryfired this gun at least a hundred thousand times; and I was doing triggerspeed exercises when it happened (i.e., very fast DA pulls); and S&W sent me the spring without asking anything about it when I called. But still, there it is. Dryfire a S&W hard and fast a hundred thousand times, and you might break a free part. ;)

[TexasRifleman]

Interesting, TSM--in the spirit of disclosure, I'll add one.

I broke a sear spring on a S&W model 66 in dryfire. Now, I have dryfired this gun at least a hundred thousand times; and I was doing triggerspeed exercises when it happened (i.e., very fast DA pulls); and S&W sent me the spring without asking anything about it when I called. But still, there it is. Dryfire a S&W hard and fast a hundred thousand times, and you might break a free part. ;)


Heh heh. I have dry fired everything I own at one time or another.
But you're right, it's such a rare occurence I don't even think about it anymore.

[pax]

Never heard of dryfiring causing a gun to be sad, but unsafe dryfiring can certainly leave the shooter sad.

If you dryfire, please be sure to follow the dryfire safety rules. (http://www.thehighroad.org/showpost.php?p=2005664&postcount=16)

pax

[JohnKSa]

Dryfiring guns puts wear on them, and in some cases the wear can be different or more extreme than the normal wear experienced during firing.

I have heard of transfer bars on revolvers breaking, firing pins breaking, and even breechfaces cracking in extreme cases.

Is it likely? No, but if you plan to embark on a vigorous and regular dryfiring schedule, snap caps are a reasonable investment.

[mountainclmbr]

I have a story of dry firing from a sheriff's deputy that was the instructor for my Florida CCW class. He was dry firing at bad guys on his television set. But the gun was not unloaded. The Negligent Discharge got him assigned to teach safety to the county-run CCW classes.

[1911user]

Yes, rimfires. But Centerfires? I await confirmed examples.
Star model BM 9mm pistol. Star cut a slot/notch in the side of the firing pin to retain the firing pin via a pin driven into the top of the slide. It's not a tiny notch. Dry fiiring this pistol results in the retaining pin stopping the firing pins' forward motion by catching the back of the notch and broken firing pins at that weakened point are certainly possible.

[Soybomb]

Yes, rimfires. But Centerfires? I await confirmed examples.
Kel-tec says peening may be a problem on the low mass firing pin of the p3-at and never to dry fire it.

[ChristopherG]

Interesting specific examples! This is fruitful, and the kind of thing the owners of these specific guns should know. I hope other examples will be forthcoming.

I would still maintain that the default position (subject to such research on their specific guns) for owners of centerfire handguns should be that dryfire is a normal and healthy practice (if done carefully, of course). Does it entail risks to the gun? Of course. BUT: in general and for most centerfire handguns of quality (and I'm confident this is the case for the thread starter's Glock and Beretta), the BENEFITS of dryfiring vastly outweigh the risks; because the likelihood that the gun will break (or malfunction) during a life-threatening encounter are ASTRONOMICALLY low compared to the likelihood that you will MISS. Any able competitive shooter will agree that dryfire practice (as part of a program also including live-fire) can make you a better shot, and less likely to miss. From a risk-management perspective, dry-fire is a veritable no-brainer. Wha'd'ya think?

[Atticus]

Yes, rimfires. But Centerfires? I await confirmed examples.


CZ75- not recommended.

[Walt Sherrill]

Correction: older CZ-75B (emphasis on B), not recommended.

With the newer 75Bs with a doubled firing pin retention roll pin, its no longer an issue. (Damage is to the retention roll pin, not the firing pin. Roll pin from the hardware store will work -- but if it happens at an awkward time, that may not work.)

Its not an issue with the pre-B (true) CZ-75s.

Also, Bereta Tomcats, at least the early models, would break firing pins if dry-fired. Sometimes they'll break them even if using a snap cap. (I had two and had a number of breaks while using snap caps.)

[TexasRifleman]

The Negligent Discharge got him assigned to teach safety to the county-run CCW classes.

Uhhhhh...........:evil:

[MCgunner]

Kel-tec says peening may be a problem on the low mass firing pin of the p3-at and never to dry fire it.

Way I understood it, the low inertia hammer requires high velocity to fire and because of this design, dry firing is discouraged as it could cause damage. I don't dry fire my P11 without the snap cap at any rate.

.22 rim fires, the firing pin will hit metal, not good.

Years ago, Smiths and other revolvers had the roll pin hammer integral firing pins and dry firing was discouraged. When Ruger introduced the Security Six, it was widely advertized that dry firing had no effect on it. The ruggedness of the design was being hawked by the company. At gun industry conventions, Ruger had a security six set up with a mechanical trigger firing stand. It would sit there and dry fire itself though the whole show. This was considered amazing at the time, but it's no longer unique. I'm still hesitant about dry firing most weapons without a snap cap, though.

[Tomcat1066]

Correction: older CZ-75B (emphasis on B), not recommended.

With the newer 75Bs with a doubled firing pin retention roll pin, its no longer an issue. (Damage is to the retention roll pin, not the firing pin. Roll pin from the hardware store will work -- but if it happens at an awkward time, that may not work.)



I bought my CZ used, so I'm not sure when it was made. Any idea of how I can find out so I'll know if I've been doing something to screw up my pistol?

Thanks,
Tom

[xring04]

cz-52 Never dry fire them. I have seen a few broken ones.

[Rockstar]

I doubt if those guys at Glock/Smyrna know as much about Glocks as do we experts here on the internet, but there have been numerous cases of Glock breechface failures that were attributed by Glock/Smyrna to "excessive dryfiring."

[MCgunner]

Originally Posted by mountainclmbr
The Negligent Discharge got him assigned to teach safety to the county-run CCW classes.


Uhhhhh...........

See, that's the way the government does it in bureaucracy, promotion to the first level of incompetency. BWAAAAA, ha, ha!

[Walt Sherrill]

re: CZ-75bs with doubled roll pins.

Unless its very new, it doesn't have the doubled pin (the last year or so.)

You can call CZ (check their website for an 800 number] and the'll probably send you a doubled (two] pin free.

I dry-fired my 75B many, many (thousands?] of times without problems, but broke the firing pin retention roll pin in a 40B in a few hundred dry fires.

[rockstar.esq]

Interesting specific examples! This is fruitful, and the kind of thing the owners of these specific guns should know. I hope other examples will be forthcoming.

I would still maintain that the default position (subject to such research on their specific guns) for owners of centerfire handguns should be that dryfire is a normal and healthy practice (if done carefully, of course). Does it entail risks to the gun? Of course. BUT: in general and for most centerfire handguns of quality (and I'm confident this is the case for the thread starter's Glock and Beretta), the BENEFITS of dryfiring vastly outweigh the risks; because the likelihood that the gun will break (or malfunction) during a life-threatening encounter are ASTRONOMICALLY low compared to the likelihood that you will MISS. Any able competitive shooter will agree that dryfire practice (as part of a program also including live-fire) can make you a better shot, and less likely to miss. From a risk-management perspective, dry-fire is a veritable no-brainer. Wha'd'ya think?

I think you should buy snap caps and stop "taking a chance" with a gun you trust to defend your life. It never ceases to amaze me that despite several confirmed reports, many "salty veterans of CCW" take it upon themselves to say that dry fire practice without snap caps is somehow acceptable BUT they wouldn't trust a certain brand of ammo because somebody they knew, knew somebody who had a dud primer! JUST BUY THE SNAP CAPS!

[ChristopherG]

Huh. I spose if you feel better about dry-fire practice with snap-caps, and therefore actually do it instead of just fretting about it, then they're serving a purpose.

I've never seen a recommendation from the manufacturer of a gun I've owned to use snap caps, including when they address the question, 'Is dry-fire okay?', and answer it positively. Maybe I haven't looked hard enough.

Since you quote my post, I would have hoped for a little more engagement with the thought and a little less weird characterization, but I'm open to the idea that snap-caps are more than a placebo. Is there a manufacturer that recommends them?

[JohnKSa]

I believe that CZ includes snap caps with some of their guns.

A few minutes with the search engine here will reveal some pictures of dry-fire damage and a lot of testimonials about broken parts from dry-firing.