Shootout (History Channel Show)


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thereisnospoon
December 13, 2005, 11:04 PM
...is officially my new favorite show on television.

Tonight Iraqi double-header, but even the stories they do about WWII, etc are very informative and entertaining.

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Lambo
December 14, 2005, 01:12 AM
I watched! Its great! Tells the real story!

DevLcL
December 14, 2005, 02:16 AM
Watching it right now. Would have missed it if you didnt post. Thanks!!!

johnmcl
December 14, 2005, 09:19 AM
Hi all,

I've seen several "Shootouts". I've found them uniformly (no pun intended) high quality. On a personal note, I find the actors fun to watch, but I get the most out of the interviews and the digital models. Those digital recreations really drive the strategy home to me.

In short, some of the best TV these days is on the History Channel..

John

mbs357
December 14, 2005, 09:57 AM
I've seen it a few times, great show.
They mostly show military. But I've seen (or at least the previews of it) of a LEO one, I believe it was the LA Bank Heist.
I wonder what the chances of them doing one with CCW permittees is.
(Maybe not one completely focused on CCWs but maybe an LEO shootout with CCWs helping out or some such.)

grimlock
December 14, 2005, 09:59 AM
To me, it really drives home the fact that, if the insurgents over in Iraq ever tried to aim at all, we'd be losing a lot more soldiers.

Oh, and the guy who waded into the reeds with his knife drawn probably needs special tailoring on his pants.

dk-corriveau
December 14, 2005, 10:03 AM
My favorite line from last nightís episode went something like this:
Democracy isnít handed out with milk & cookies, itís fought for.
Good show all around. :)

Lennyjoe
December 14, 2005, 10:09 AM
Ah crap! I wanted to watch it but missed it.:banghead:

Hopefully it will play again.

Tomcat1066
December 14, 2005, 10:42 AM
Great show. I missed last night's episode, but I've seen several others.

To me, the coolest ones they did was about Normandy. They took a battle that was portrayed in Band of Brothers. It was extremely entertaining and informative. What was cool was already knowing all the guys names though :D

Tom

MedGrl
December 14, 2005, 10:46 AM
What day and times are they on? I get history channel but my schedual is kinda wonky right now 'cause of Final exams for the semester.

enfield
December 14, 2005, 10:48 AM
I'd advise everyone to take what they see on The History Channel with a grain of salt. They're no more accurate than most other sources of information. They provide entertainment, not history. ;)

thereisnospoon
December 14, 2005, 11:22 AM
I'd advise everyone to take what they see on The History Channel with a grain of salt. They're no more accurate than most other sources of information. They provide entertainment, not history.

In case you've missed most of my posts on THR, I take absolutely EVERYTHING with a grain of salt.

...is officially my new favorite show on television.

Tonight Iraqi double-header, but even the stories they do about WWII, etc are very informative and entertaining.

Notice in my original post I didn't say accurate, I said informative and entertaining...:rolleyes:

JamisJockey
December 14, 2005, 11:27 AM
To me, it really drives home the fact that, if the insurgents over in Iraq ever tried to aim at all, we'd be losing a lot more soldiers.

Oh, and the guy who waded into the reeds with his knife drawn probably needs special tailoring on his pants.


Pants with extra space in the groin for the brass clankers are standard issue for Marines.

Ooorahh!
:evil:

michael_aos
December 14, 2005, 11:38 AM
No complaints about the show, but the FORMAT drives me nuts. I've almost given up on it.

They set up the story. Then do a recap. Then run through it. Then a commercial. Then they set it up again. Then another recap. Then they play 1/2 the program that aired before the commercial. Then another summary.

Come on!!!!

:cuss:

I feel like I've watched in at least 3-times by the time it's over. Maybe, just MAYBE 20-minutes of content in an hour-long show.

:banghead:

Mike

Crosshair
December 14, 2005, 12:33 PM
From what I have heard the enemy not aiming thing is for the most part true. Even better in the show is when you see them firing an RPG with a solid brick wall right behind them.:what:

PaulTX
December 14, 2005, 02:04 PM
I watched most of the two shows last night. What bothers me is why they don't have some heavier weapons with those squads? They needed some 50's and the auto grenade launchers (don't remember the designation). Plus with all those RPGs laying around - why aren't we using them against the bad guys? Just a squad with 4 hummers and M16's is fairly weak. Also - where's the air support - they should have taken out a couple of square blocks!

It is hard to achieve fire superiority when you are out-numbered, have wounded, and only have the M16's and maybe an machine gun (didn't see much machine gun activity).

Dain Bramage
December 14, 2005, 03:26 PM
firing an RPG with a solid brick wall right behind them

From what I've read, RPG are one of the few recoilless weapons that can be fired from an enclosed space. The warhead is initially driven by a small propellant charge, and then the rocket ignites when the warhead is well away from the weapon.

It gives it a strange dipping and climbing flight profile that the sight is supposed to account for.

thereisnospoon
December 14, 2005, 03:27 PM
I thought the same thing...for a group of people who were going LOOKING for a fight, they sure didn't take what I would. Maybe they were severely restricted on weapon selection.

As far as AIR goes, I bet they couldn't have called it in anyway...too much COLLATERAL damage:rolleyes:

MD_Willington
December 14, 2005, 03:46 PM
From what I've read, RPG are one of the few recoilless weapons that can be fired from an enclosed space. The warhead is initially driven by a small propellant charge, and then the rocket ignites when the warhead is well away from the weapon.

It gives it a strange dipping and climbing flight profile that the sight is supposed to account for.


I could ask a guy I work with about that... He could probably say, been there, done that, didn't get the shirt though... :eek:

MD

JamisJockey
December 14, 2005, 03:46 PM
On average, every Marine fireteam (4 members), has a SAW. There should also be a smattering of AT-4's. Everyone would have frag grenades, and possibly some CS, smoke, and stun grenades.
Not every combat action requires a big freaking hammer. Sometimes just a few grunts and thier rifles is the key.
And any enemy who's had the unpleasant experience of being on the business end of a Marine advance probably wasn't worried about the TO&E....they were too busy dying!

f4t9r
December 14, 2005, 04:13 PM
Seen it , Like it

jtward01
December 14, 2005, 04:14 PM
Yeah, I had to question some of the tactics used, too, if they were portrayed accurately. Let's see, you have insurgents on floors above and below you. You advance down the steps to where the insurgents are waiting in the dark, their eyes already adjusted to the lower light. You take fire and your people are wounded. You're surprised! NOW you decide to drop a few frag grenades down the steps. Why in hell didn't you lead with the frags before sending people down?

SOF guy goes upstairs and tosses in a flash-bang. A FLASH-BANG? Why not a frag grenade and take care of business?

Two guys go through a door onto a roof. BG starts shooting. Second Marine through the door is hit. First Marine runs back down steps leaving his buddy on the roof. Why wasn't he shooting at BG while BG was shooting his buddy? Why wasn't he courts martialed for turning tail?

One of the most interested parts to me was the story about the BG sniper who held his fire while the Marines recovered their dead. This BG may have allied himself with the insurgents now, but his actions are those of a professional soldier, not a terrorist.

hillbilly
December 14, 2005, 05:33 PM
The bit that really blew me away was the Marine who took a 5.45 round to the gut and fell down.

He was pulled around a corner and worked on by a Navy Corpsman.

As the Corpsman worked on him, the wounded Marine smoked a cigarette, figured his buddies needed help, and then stood up and got back into the firefight with a 5.45 bullet from an AK-74 still in his guts.

damn.........


Oorah, Devil Dogs.............


hillbilly

P.S. For those that didn't see it, the bullet from the AK-74 stayed in the Marine's guts because it ripped the carry handle off the Marine's M16 before it punctured the said Marine.

jason10mm
December 14, 2005, 05:37 PM
They have done 2 cop shows that I have seen (LA bank and a generic SWAT one) as well as a wild west one. I'm hoping for some Vietnam, WW1, and more cop stories.

It comes on Tuesday nights, but they show it all through the week.

grimlock
December 14, 2005, 07:13 PM
From what I've read, RPG are one of the few recoilless weapons that can be fired from an enclosed space. The warhead is initially driven by a small propellant charge, and then the rocket ignites when the warhead is well away from the weapon.

It gives it a strange dipping and climbing flight profile that the sight is supposed to account for.

RPGs still have quite a backblast. I saw a video a year or so ago where RPG man didn't alert his buddy, standing behind him, that he was firing.

Guy disappeared between the firing frame and the next. Reports are he ended up 10 feet away, and was not in a happy state.

dpesec
December 14, 2005, 07:36 PM
Yeah, I had to question some of the tactics used, too, if they were portrayed accurately. Let's see, you have insurgents on floors above and below you. You advance down the steps to where the insurgents are waiting in the dark, their eyes already adjusted to the lower light. You take fire and your people are wounded. You're surprised! NOW you decide to drop a few frag grenades down the steps. Why in hell didn't you lead with the frags before sending people down?

SOF guy goes upstairs and tosses in a flash-bang. A FLASH-BANG? Why not a frag grenade and take care of business?

Two guys go through a door onto a roof. BG starts shooting. Second Marine through the door is hit. First Marine runs back down steps leaving his buddy on the roof. Why wasn't he shooting at BG while BG was shooting his buddy? Why wasn't he courts martialed for turning tail?

One of the most interested parts to me was the story about the BG sniper who held his fire while the Marines recovered their dead. This BG may have allied himself with the insurgents now, but his actions are those of a professional soldier, not a terrorist.

I can think of two reasons. I've never been in combat, so take this with a grain of salt. You don't know if the people are non-combatants. Remember our ROE is to keep colateral damage down. The MSM would take a dinm view a child being fraged.

MechAg94
December 14, 2005, 07:39 PM
I have seen some shows with mortars, rocket launchers, and air support. Depends on the battle I guess. That one was a company sized action in Iraq where a bunch of marines went in to recover a downed scout chopper and crew.

AFhack
December 14, 2005, 07:50 PM
I enjoy the show - but as a previous poster pointed out, more for entertainment than for history or even for information. They did one that involved a fight for some fortifications in WWII (Seigfred Line I think) that was very well done... mainly because it included interviews from combatants on both sides. I think that tied the story together well and gave both accounts some credibility when they overlapped.

I've got some problems with a few of the Iraq shows they've done. Mostly tactical questions. Last night's show had a good example... the Marines enter a building they aren't expecting the hostages in (to set up a perimeter around where they think the hostage really is), and encounter fire immediately. One Marine falls inside, shot in both legs, the other one stumbles, wounded, back outside. Marine Officer and Army Special Forces Officer go in to retrieve the man wounded in both legs. Two Officers? Where are their NCO's, or why not one officer and an enlisted?

Just got me to thinking... I've been in the military long enough to know that this seems a little odd on the face of it... of course there could have been a myriad of circumstances that weren't portrayed.

Growler
December 14, 2005, 08:03 PM
Its a good show, I like to watch it also. They are filmed very well, but as others have said it is to be taken with a grain of salt. Iím sure they take some liberties when filming it to give a more action. Bottom line is I give it a thumbs up.

JamisJockey
December 14, 2005, 08:57 PM
I have seen some shows with mortars, rocket launchers, and air support. Depends on the battle I guess. That one was a company sized action in Iraq where a bunch of marines went in to recover a downed scout chopper and crew.


That was actually the Army.
http://www.armytimes.com/print.php?f=0-ARMYPAPER-452676.php

KriegHund
December 14, 2005, 09:14 PM
Ide like to see more about WW1 in general. It was eclipsed by WW2, it seems, which is a gosh darn shame. :cuss:

Anywho, i saw a shootout episode with some guys clearing a home in iraq. Was pretty good looking.

Crosshair
December 15, 2005, 01:33 AM
KriegHund

Ide like to see more about WW1 in general. It was eclipsed by WW2, it seems, which is a gosh darn shame.

Anyone seen "The Lost Battalion". VERY good WW1 movie. Plenty of 1903, 1911, and 1917 action in that movie.:D I recorded it to my computer, I think I have it copied on a DVD somewhere.

Berek
December 15, 2005, 03:13 AM
Yeah, I had to question some of the tactics used, too, if they were portrayed accurately. Let's see, you have insurgents on floors above and below you. You advance down the steps to where the insurgents are waiting in the dark, their eyes already adjusted to the lower light. You take fire and your people are wounded. You're surprised! NOW you decide to drop a few frag grenades down the steps. Why in hell didn't you lead with the frags before sending people down?
They weren't really sure where they were and didn't know that there was a cubby under the stairs. Rule of thumb is to not use what you have unless you know they are there and where they are. Otherwise, you may not have it when you need it. Waste not, want not.

SOF guy goes upstairs and tosses in a flash-bang. A FLASH-BANG? Why not a frag grenade and take care of business?
There was a hostage. Don't ever kill the hostage. You think other nations hate us now???

Two guys go through a door onto a roof. BG starts shooting. Second Marine through the door is hit. First Marine runs back down steps leaving his buddy on the roof. Why wasn't he shooting at BG while BG was shooting his buddy? Why wasn't he courts martialed for turning tail?
I got nuttin' fer this one. I wondered why he wasn't shotting myself.

One of the most interested parts to me was the story about the BG sniper who held his fire while the Marines recovered their dead. This BG may have allied himself with the insurgents now, but his actions are those of a professional soldier, not a terrorist.
Some soldiers understand the respect that the dead and/or wounded deserve. To me, that is a true sign of the noble soldier. You know they will be back, let them give aid to those that have already paid for the ride. True, the sniper probably paid the ultimate price in the end (they don't actually know if they got him...) but I take my hat off to him for a noble, humane gesture in a chaotic situation.

JamisJockey
December 15, 2005, 10:36 AM
Id like to see more about WW1 in general. .

Belleau Wood would be my first choice to see from WW1.

KriegHund
December 15, 2005, 07:06 PM
KriegHund

Ide like to see more about WW1 in general. It was eclipsed by WW2, it seems, which is a gosh darn shame.

Anyone seen "The Lost Battalion". VERY good WW1 movie. Plenty of 1903, 1911, and 1917 action in that movie.:D I recorded it to my computer, I think I have it copied on a DVD somewhere.

Aye, got it on blockbuster. Very fine movie indeed!

Im reading a series of books based off WW1 right now by harry turtledove, 'The great war" series. Good reads.

Carl N. Brown
December 15, 2005, 07:22 PM
The Shootout series and some of the other history
shows sometimes mix archival footage of the actual
event, stock footage and reenactments. I would like
it better if the visual was captioned. I hate to try
to study detail in a video and realize oops re-enactor,
never mind.

I mean, I have seen HMS Barham blow up hundreds of
times over the past fifty years: every time a
documentary needs a ship exploding, they re-Ka-boom
poor old Barham.

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