Disarmed Katrina survivor recovering from surgery files federal lawsuit


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jsalcedo
December 14, 2005, 03:00 PM
NEW ORLEANS, Dec. 14 /U.S. Newswire/ -- A New Orleans woman is recovering from surgery this week from injuries resulting from when she was roughed-up by authorities who forced her to leave her home a week after Hurricane Katrina. Patricia Konie, 58, has filed a Federal lawsuit over the injuries and other violations of civil rights.

"My client was severely injured in a needless removal from her home," stated attorney Ashton O'Dwyer. "Patricia Konie had food, plenty of water, and a roof over her head. The police who illegally entered her home and imposed their will on a frail, middle-aged female should have been out apprehending armed, male looters instead."

Konie was greeting a reporter and photographer from a San Francisco TV station and a journalist from the London Times when police unexpectedly entered her home. When she refused to leave as ordered, they confiscated a firearm used for defense and according to Konie, "slammed" her to the ground, both displacing and fracturing her left shoulder.

After remaining in custody for several hours without charges being filed against her by authorities, she was flown alone to South Carolina where she remained for more than a month before returning to her native New Orleans.

A Federal lawsuit was filed claiming that authorities assaulted and knocked her to the ground when she refused to leave her New Orleans home on September 7th, 2005. Konie also alleges numerous civil rights violations including assault and battery by police in her suit against several Louisiana and California State Police officers who took her into custody. She also alleges authorities violated her Second Amendment right to keep and bear arms.

"Hurricane Katrina was horrible, but there is no excuse for what happened to this nice lady", said O'Dwyer. "Police caused her months of pain and suffering and she still faces months of physical therapy. This suit will hold the individuals responsible for their misdeeds."

Konie had her surgery early on Monday morning, December 12. She is still recovering in the hospital, and lives alone on a limited budget of Social Security benefits. She is devastated by what happened and has not had her seized property returned.

"Sadly, Patricia Konie is only one of many examples of police going too far in the wake of Hurricane Katrina," said O'Dwyer. "Already one court has ruled against their strong-arm tactics, and we look forward to our day in court."


http://releases.usnewswire.com/GetRelease.asp?id=58112

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engineer151515
December 14, 2005, 03:11 PM
More power to her.


I hope she wins big. I want to give pause to the next "authority" that declares "only police will be armed".

No civilians in New Orleans will be allowed to carry pistols, shotguns or other firearms, said P. Edwin Compass III, the superintendent of police. "Only law enforcement are allowed to have weapons," he said.

Pilgrim
December 14, 2005, 03:28 PM
I would like to make a contribution to help out with her attorney's fees.

Pilgrim

ARperson
December 14, 2005, 03:34 PM
I would love to see the complete list of violations/transgressions the police officers are accused of perpetrating. Seems to me like she has their family jewels in her hand and is just waiting for that debilitating squeeze.

Being held with charged, entering the home and confiscating items without a warrant, physically relocating her against her will (across a state line, no less).

I'm usually not supportive of lawsuits for exorbitant amounts of money. But when the .gov is the defendant and is being sued for legit reasons, I don't mind my tax dollars going to work like that.

Lupinus
December 14, 2005, 03:39 PM
Everyone should give this woman a round of applause for standing up for her rights, and while she had to be subjected to it and wasn't able to stop it is going to be making them pay for it. And pay dearly I hope they do, I would love to be on the jury for this one.

TallPine
December 14, 2005, 04:09 PM
Well, if she doesn't win on this one - then IMO it is no longer "too soon" :uhoh:

R-Tex12
December 14, 2005, 04:10 PM
I would like to make a contribution to help out with her attorney's fees.
Pilgrim

I'm with Pilgrim.

dasmi
December 14, 2005, 04:10 PM
"My client was severely injured in a needless removal from her home," stated attorney Ashton O'Dwyer. "Patricia Konie had food, plenty of water, and a roof over her head. The police who illegally entered her home and imposed their will on a frail, middle-aged female should have been out apprehending armed, male looters instead."
That's the Ashton O'Dwyer that was on the news, shirtless, yelling for the government folks to get out of his neighborhood, and leave him be. He also said "Let them be warned, if they try to take my guns, there will be gun fire." I'll post the clip, if I can find it.

migoi
December 14, 2005, 04:18 PM
one can respect. Both for his statements while in his front yard and his stepping forward to sue for this woman to be compensated for the violations against her.

Is this the woman from the infamous video clip, holding a revolver, and telling the police "I don't want you in here period."?

migoi

dasmi
December 14, 2005, 04:20 PM
Migoi, I think so, yes. I'm finding video clips right now so I can confirm.
UPDATE:
Yes, it is her.
Video can be seen here. (http://www.sixforsure.org/konie.wmv)
Still searching for the clip of Mr. O'Dywer.

dasmi
December 14, 2005, 04:29 PM
Can't find the clip, but I found the transcript.
From http://transcripts.cnn.com/TRANSCRIPTS/0509/09/lt.03.html
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

ASHTON O'DWYER, NEW ORLEANS HOLDOUT: Have you has your neighborhood ever been invaded by state troopers from another state? Sent here by God knows whom?

SIMON: Many of the people continuing to stay in New Orleans were told time was running out. Ashton O'Dwyer is an attorney but says he'll defy any order requiring him to evacuate.

O'DWYER: I will leave when I am dead. OK. Let them be warned. They come to my house, they try to evict me, they try to take my guns, there will be gunfire.

SIMON: With his house intact and with plenty of food and water, O'Dwyer cannot understand why folks like him are being forced to leave.

O'DWYER: Treat me with benign neglect. Get out of my neighborhood, get out of my life, get out of my [ bleep ] city.

SIMON: And there were plenty of other fireworks as officers went door to door looking for holdouts.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: It's my right. It's a constitutional right.

SIMON: The situation got extremely tense when an armed man barricaded himself threatening to shoot. He was eventually arrested without incident.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Are we evicting these people, for God's sakes, I hope?

SIMON: Officers also arrested the occupants of a suspected stolen truck.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: What are you doing, man? UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Put your hands where I can see them.

SIMON: They searched it and found a stash of drugs and a handgun.

It may have been more calm at this neighborhood bar but the sentiment remains the same as folks try to figure out how to avoid the mandatory order.

JOANNE GUIDES, BAR OWNER: People can come in and get away from the insanity and get a little normality here.

SIMON: Owner Joanne Guides has managed to keep the place open with generators. Folks were socializing, ordering drinks, pretending everything was normal. Larry Stamm says right now, this is about as good as life gets.

LARRY STAMM, NEW ORLEANS HOLDOUT: Where am I going to go? I don't have no money. Can't get into the bank. I can't use my ATM card. If I leave here, I'm going to be in worse shape. I'm in here. We're watching TV. Got a place to sleep. We have food.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

dasmi
December 14, 2005, 04:35 PM
http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2005/09/13/earlyshow/main837959.shtml
An article on Mr. O'Dwyer.

armoredman
December 14, 2005, 04:37 PM
I hope she slams them. I also hope this doesn't get buried...any way to contact this guy to see if we can get some sort of regular updates, within law? I wish I had a few extra $ to contribute as well...
If she loses, it will mean the destruction of the American Legal System is complete.

NineseveN
December 14, 2005, 04:46 PM
Donations, good idea! I like this lawyer and his client.

gremlin_bros
December 14, 2005, 04:49 PM
guess i'm gonna be kinda hated for what im about to say but one is forced to look at the situation from every point of view. first is the police were evacuating everybody she should have left under thier orders period. now since she refused and she was armed that is why force was used.

now i do not in any agree with the amount of force that was used and personally feel that a bit of tact and dipolomacy could have resolved this issue with nobody getting hurt.

but the police will defend themselves probably using the reasons i have outlined and probably get away with it being called justifyed.

is it right? no
is it fair? hell no
is it what will happen? probably so

and since she "resested" she can probably kiss her property (whitch i tacke to be the gun) goodbye forever

so to be fair all around mistakes were made on both sides. lets face it; it was a complete goat f*** downthere and everybody lost in the long run.

dasmi
December 14, 2005, 04:51 PM
Gremlin_bros, did you watch the video?

Standing Wolf
December 14, 2005, 04:54 PM
I hope she wins big. I want to give pause to the next "authority" that declares "only police will be armed".

Government these days has altogether too much authority and too little moral stature.

migoi
December 14, 2005, 05:02 PM
at the time she was removed they were not doing a 100% evacuation of the area she was in. They were going around and encouraging everyone to evacuate and confiscating the firearms of those that chose to stay.

Apparently these confiscations happened for two reasons. To make the stayers feel helpless and in need of "government" assistance and to make it easier when they later decided to do a 100% forcible evacuation.

Her house was on dry ground, she claimed to have sufficient food and water, and was confident in her ability to take care of herself. Being an honest citizen she showed the police she had a firearm (the reason for her producing the firearm is not on the tape I saw) in a completely non-threatening manner. She repeatedly asked them to leave her property. Multiple officers then tackled her to the ground and used what appeared to be pain compliance limb manipulations to "escort" her to the train car...I mean truck.

migoi

Backfired
December 14, 2005, 05:05 PM
I gotta disagree. The place needed to be evacuated to minimize looting. That means EVERYBODY has to go. If it had been me, I would have hated to leave but I would have hated looters running rampant even more.

dasmi
December 14, 2005, 05:07 PM
To minimize looting?!
What?
How will removing lawful citizens minimize looting?
They removed her, now her house is free to be looted by the scum.
To minimize looting, encourage lawful citizens to protect their homes by whatever means required.
Here, this guy knows how to minimize looting.
http://www.answers.com/main/content/wp/en/thumb/f/fe/200px-Looters.JPG
And this guy also has the right idea.
http://www.armyofrobots.com/images/common/looters.jpg

NineseveN
December 14, 2005, 05:10 PM
Oh wow, this is gonna be a fun thread! :evil:

gremlin_bros
December 14, 2005, 05:12 PM
addmitidly no i havent but i know how the lawyers will try to play this one out in court you might call it a case of i've seen it happen to many times. other circumstances yes but same idea. now i do agree the lady needs to get somthing. but i just dont have much faith in our justice system. call me jaded but ive seen to many good people screwed over to ever think that it works like it should.

like i said the cops were evacing everybody as i understand it. a bit late in my openion but hey what can you do. personaly i was in mississippi providing security at one of the evac shelters there. tension was high between law enforcement and the victims everybody on both sides were stressed out to the breaking point. from the long hours not knowing if friends or family were alright and under these circumstances people on both sides can and will make bad decisions.as i feel probably happened in this case.

of course i do know law enforcement has thier traning but even that can degrade under these kinds of circumstances. where i was was even more stressful as i was unarmed security now add that into your stress meter for fun. like i said what is right and fair probably wont happen i do hope she wins but i just find it to be quite doubtfull given the level of disorginiation that was going on at the time. not alot anybody can do about it if you truly want to help insted of donating to her lawyer howabout donating to a fund to pay her hospital bills. come to think i just may see if i can do that it would help her more in the long run.

and i love dasmi's post now thats the right idea ill agreeand now new information is up they conficated her gun thats why you give them a junk gun to conficate and keep the good stuff well hiden so you dont need govt. protection

dasmi
December 14, 2005, 05:14 PM
Watch the video.
You might be right, she may get screwed in court. But, if I had to pick a lawyer, Mr. O'Dwyer would probably be at the top of my list, just because of what I saw him say on national TV, when the Government tried to remove him from his home.

Sindawe
December 14, 2005, 05:15 PM
Evictions AFTER the storm as passed, from regions of the city that were NOT flooded...

Illegal seizure of property...

Indefinite delays of elections....

"Paging Ms. Wolfe, please pick up the white curtesy phone. Ms. Wolfe, please pick up the white curtesy phone."

XLMiguel
December 14, 2005, 05:21 PM
+1 miogi
I'm usually not supportive of lawsuits for exorbitant amounts of money. But when the .gov is the defendant and is being sued for legit reasons, I don't mind my tax dollars going to work like that.

While I think the lady is entitled to reasonable damages and punitive damages, I don't want to pay excessively for governement bungling, incompetence and ineptitude. I want to fix the damn problem. I want the people responsible for this crap to pay. What I really want is for the perpetrators and their supervisors to lose their jobs and go to jail as appropriate. :fire:

NineseveN
December 14, 2005, 05:22 PM
+1 miogi


While I think the lady is entitled to reasonable damages and punitive damages, I don't want to pay excessively for governement bungling, incompetence and ineptitude. I want to fix the damn problem. What I really want is for the perpetrators and their supervisors to lose their jobs and go to jail as appropriate. :fire:


+1

mcosman
December 14, 2005, 05:26 PM
since when do the police or any agency have the right to tell me to leave my property when I have done nothing wrong. (Site chapter and verse)

Sure if they come to my house to take me to "safety" and I refuse then I accept that I am on my own. A hurricane came and some people were smart enough to prepare. Then the JBT's go in to remove the only prepared people in the area. That is counter intuative. To the individual that said it was to reduce looting... that is what martial law was invented for. In a situation like this everyone stays at home, guns and all.

I live in a place where this would not happen, but if something did I would not answer the door for anyone. I would post a sign just like so many people did in LA, Come in here and you will be shot. That will go for everyone, If I want to be "rescued" I will do it myself.

A guy I knew once told me that I needed a years supply of food and water and bullets to defend it.

engineer151515
December 14, 2005, 05:48 PM
...........i do hope she wins but i just find it to be quite doubtfull given the level of disorginiation that was going on at the time......

Let me start by thanking all LEO for their service everywhere. You are brave and loyal people. We were hit by Ivan last year and were close enough to feel some of the wrath of Katrina (but nothing like NOLA or Biloxi, MS).


The actions perpetrated against this woman were not the result of disorganization, accident or misunderstanding. This was an intentional sweep by authorities to remove guns from law abiding citizens in preparation for forced eviction.

These police went in with every intent of evicting her from her home. She repeatedly told the officers that she was fine, did not want to leave and did not want the police in her house. When she answered a police inquiry as to whether she was armed, she retrieved the revolver per police instruction. She held the revolver by the cylinder. She was then body slammed by the officer which resulted in her injury.


The Police Chief cannot declare the 2nd Amendment null and void. (If somebody informed of Martial Law statues wants to educate me on that angle, I welcome your response). The Mayor, Governor, and President of the United States cannot passively support this position with failure to intervene.
But they did.

I hope she wins a MONSTEROUS award - so much in fact that every police precinct in the country will feel compelled to explain to every officer that law abiding citizens are protected from this type of indiscriminate, self proclaimed "law enforcement" for fear of getting sued themselves.


Everybody jumps on the bandwagon when industry is sued for a slip-up. Exxon-Mobile runs a tanker aground - big bucks. Woman spills McDonalds coffee while holding a styrofoam cup between her legs - hundreds of thousands of dollars.


The authorities declare we will take firearms from all law abiding citizens and leave them defenseless in the face of looting and lawlessness? No - that is not a misunderstanding. That is an abuse of power.


Citizens - the pool from which Police, National Guard, Military are formed. By protecting your citizen's rights, you serve to protect yourselves.

dasmi
December 14, 2005, 05:51 PM
+1
Excellent post!

MICHAEL T
December 14, 2005, 06:11 PM
I hope she gets lots of money from this. But most of all I would like to see that JBT from Ca I belive. Get a nice cell with a big bubba who slams him in a wall every few hours along with other nice things . Their was NEVER a need for his actions.

gremlin_bros
December 14, 2005, 06:15 PM
well when it comes to the govt i just remember what was said by ronald reagan.
The nine most terrifying words in the English language are, 'I'm from the government and I'm here to help.'
Ronald Reagan

omnivore75
December 14, 2005, 06:41 PM
I have to say this whole thing has me very worried.:uhoh: :eek: It tells me that if this country is ever in REAL trouble that the authorities have the right to come in and disarm me and leave me defenseless.:mad: :what: I honestly cannot believe they did this. Some of the statements the authorities made were just unbelievable. "We will disarm EVERYONE" As if it's good to go in and disarm innocent Americans who need to defend their lives and what little they have not already lost. What will happen in the moment of truth? Will the police and the people ban together or will more people die killing off one another?? All I can say is this is a sad state of affairs and it shows just how much standing the second amendment has EVEN WITH A REPUBLICAN ADMIN! Someone needs to do something to assure that this NEVER happens again!:cuss:

KriegHund
December 14, 2005, 06:50 PM
From all ive seen and read, looksl ike the woman is fully just to do what shes doing...

Along the lines of govt evicting peopel "For their safety"- Im sick and tired of more and more governement regul;ation, rules, and unjust laws that make up for people lack of self control and discipline.

Instead of letting people take responsibility for their own actions the governement doesnt let em take the actions in the first place.

bowline
December 14, 2005, 07:26 PM
A 'mistake' made under color of law, at the point of a gun, and involving force and bodily harm...
I really hope the officers in question get their a**es handed to them on a platter.
Anyone here have a method of contacting the lawyer? I'd be proud to pony up some cash - and happy to have a chance to resolve the issue in a courtroom rather than having to resolve it 'next time' in my front yard.
No two ways about it - if this lady had been my wife there would have been, at the minimum, bloodshed or several disarmed police officers being marched off the property at gunpoint.

TomN
December 14, 2005, 08:04 PM
Here's hoping she wins!

Waitone
December 14, 2005, 08:20 PM
This kind of nonsense will occur again and again. Suing gov't may make everyone feel better but reality is nothing will change until those who make the decisions pay. I'd love to see lawsuits lined up like railroad cars targeting those who actually made the decisions. When public officials develop a twitch when faced with a constitutional decision we will be much safer from an overreaching government.

gremlin_bros
December 14, 2005, 08:35 PM
This kind of nonsense will occur again and again. Suing gov't may make everyone feel better but reality is nothing will change until those who make the decisions pay. I'd love to see lawsuits lined up like railroad cars targeting those who actually made the decisions. When public officials develop a twitch when faced with a constitutional decision we will be much safer from an overreaching government.


now here is sombody thats got it right.

bowline
December 14, 2005, 08:45 PM
Disclaimer - I am not a lawyer!
I think the logical progression for this would be first to establish whether or not the officers had any reason to feel their actions were lawful - meaning first sue FEMA and concurrently the city of N.O.
Once this is done (and I think it should be relatively easy to establish that if they had orders, the orders were unlawful) then sue the individual (the mayor, I believe) who issued the orders. At the same time, proceed with civil suits naming the officers, if their names can be determined, and if not, the departments.
I agree with those who think the lawsuit should target individuals, but I think it will have to be done a step at a time.

VARifleman
December 14, 2005, 08:48 PM
The Police Chief cannot declare the 2nd Amendment null and void. (If somebody informed of Martial Law statues wants to educate me on that angle, I welcome your response). The Mayor, Governor, and President of the United States cannot passively support this position with failure to intervene.
But they did.
Marshall Law was never declared so what happens then doesn't matter in this case. The people saying that marshall law was declared when it happened did not have the authority to declare marshall law.

brufener
December 14, 2005, 08:53 PM
Suing gov't may make everyone feel better but reality is nothing will change until those who make the decisions pay.

All I can hope for is that this lady gets a huge sum of money right before elections - that way the sheeple (who forget everything after a few weeks) will be reminded of how much their elected leaders screwed up. Then I hope the sheeple vote them out of office.

One interesting note - I noticed that she was suing the California Highway Patrol. Hopefully they have to put in some money too, so other states will think twice about blindly following what the locals tell them to do. The downside will be that states may be less likely to send in help for future catastrophies.

Bryce

mmike87
December 14, 2005, 08:55 PM
You go girl! Take em' for all they are worth. They did it to you.

mmike87
December 14, 2005, 08:56 PM
now here is sombody thats got it right.

Individual government officers and employees CAN be held liable if they violate your civil rights.

joab
December 14, 2005, 09:02 PM
I would like to make a contribution to help out with her attorney's fees.He's gonna get a 51% contribution when it's all over. He doesn't need my $10

CentralTexas
December 14, 2005, 09:06 PM
I'm with Pilgrim.


She doesn't need $$$ for her attorney, but it's great to see folks offer. These kinds of torts are on a contingency basis. I do hope she l;ives out a long life on a private island though....
CT

DMK
December 14, 2005, 09:15 PM
More power to her. I hope she takes them to the cleaners and puts great shame on the kind of conduct that those officers excercised. If the taxpayers have to pay for it, then they will be darn sure more careful about who they vote to office next time.

The video of that frail old lady being body checked and then forcibly dragged from her home by those eager young police officers made me physically nausous. That was lady liberty getting gang raped by government sponsored thugs right there. :fire:

O.F.Fascist
December 14, 2005, 10:27 PM
I hope she wins big too.

Sadly thought government probably wont be taught the right lesson. If it costs them money they wont care since they will just keep getting more of it. I think people need to go to jail for thier incompotence.

Gunpacker
December 14, 2005, 10:32 PM
What the ********** "officer" did to this woman was inexcusable. There was no need to body slam her and fall on her as he did. I would estimate that the "officer" weighed over 200 lbs, and the little lady probably less than 100. I can see a police officer tackling a 200 lb man that is a physical threat, but not the frail old lady. Kick his ass.
A police officer can use size and physical condition of an attacker as defense for actions that he takes, in cases of vast mismatch, deadly force can be excused when an attacker is using his bare hands.
A citizen should have the same right to use the reason that excessive size difference and physical condition amounts to deadly force. The situation with that lady did not call for deadly force, or anything like what happened. She probably produced the gun at the request of the officer. Then he attacks her.
Shame on you, you ********** bully.

FallenAngel
December 14, 2005, 10:49 PM
From what I read, it seems as if she is suing the officers only. In my opinion, she should be suing the officers, the police departments, the mayor of NO, the state, and FEMA. They should ALL be sued.

klover
December 14, 2005, 11:11 PM
I'd love it if the original video of the lady getting body slammed is followed by a sumo wrestler body slamming the cop as a partial jury award. Body slamming all the other yahoos calling for disarming homeowners should be taped as well following their announcements. The whole movie then should be shown to the sheeple of the entire country to educate them.

I hope she sues their @$$es off big time!!!:cuss:

Nio
December 15, 2005, 12:27 AM
Hosted on my own site, so be gentle:

http://www.theplacewithnoname.com/t/Gun_grab.wmv

I'm going to make this story part of my blog.

http://www.theplacewithnoname.com/blogs/k

Nio

Crosshair
December 15, 2005, 12:38 AM
Pilgrim

I would like to make a contribution to help out with her attorney's fees.

I say we donate to help her with living costs. The attorney will get plenty in the settlement. I say we donate to help this lady get something a little better than ramen noodles.

/Go Granny Go.

SIGarmed
December 15, 2005, 01:35 AM
I gotta disagree. The place needed to be evacuated to minimize looting. That means EVERYBODY has to go. If it had been me, I would have hated to leave but I would have hated looters running rampant even more.


This is a joke right? That's has to be the most backward logic ever besides removing guns from the law abiding for their safety.

omnivore75
December 15, 2005, 05:40 AM
You said it. This is America friends and here if someone wants to drink a bucket of toxic water while smoking a cigarette standing naked in the snow with a shotgun in one hand and a dildo in the other then they should have the right to do so. There is NEVER any excuse to force people from their land and even if it is IMMINENTLY DEADLY then they certainly should not seize the persons arms for no reason and assault them without even giving them two seconds to grab a few things. Truly sad. Anyone who likes having officers drag then out of their home forcibly and disarm them should try living in the middle east for a while. They'd probably love it.

Omaha-BeenGlockin
December 15, 2005, 05:54 AM
How come every time the gov't screws up---things get smoothed over with OUR tax dollars---costing us all????

Guess I'd like to see the "perps" spend some jail time on our tax dollar too----let's see how fast things get cleaned up when these scumbags have to spend some serious jail time for civil rights violations and assault.

I'm not talkin a month or two in the county slammer----but a few years in the state pen or a nice federal facility such as Leavenworth.

Mongo the Mutterer
December 15, 2005, 05:56 AM
I just hope she sues Ray Nagin and Blanco personally. The C of Police resigned so he won't be in on the graft which is NOLA politics.

Nagin will be worth Billion$ after we dump the Federal money he is pleading for this week in Congress. Billion$.

Get him before he buys his private island. :evil:

Janitor
December 15, 2005, 07:55 AM
I gotta disagree. The place needed to be evacuated to minimize looting. That means EVERYBODY has to go. If it had been me, I would have hated to leave but I would have hated looters running rampant even more.
The guns need to come off the street to minimize the danger to the children. That means EVERYBODY has to give up their guns. :rolleyes:

IMO - The woman deserves to win, and win large, her lawyer along with her. How dare the city government declare a basic human right (in this country at least) null and void? They broke laws in a big way, and roughed this woman up to do it. +1 on the thought of her living on her own island someplace. Warm and safe from the JBTs.
-

benEzra
December 15, 2005, 10:04 AM
In case the original link no longer works (didn't for me), here's another:

http://news.yahoo.com/s/usnw/20051214/pl_usnw/hurricane_katrina_survivor_victimized_again__injuries_from_police_use_of_excessive_force_required_surgery103_xml

Rob62
December 15, 2005, 10:05 AM
This situation is why so many people are afraid of, and question everything the government does.

Lots of mistakes made by the government here. The forcible removal of people who had safe shelter, food, and water is inexcusible.

The confiscation of lawfully owned firearms by law abiding citizens makes me speechless. :cuss:

I really had believed that it would never come to this and I hope that this incident is an anomily and will never happen again.

Ms Konie deserves every penny she will get.

Rob

svtruth
December 15, 2005, 01:57 PM
she wins big and takes it as high as it needs to be taken.

Bainx
December 15, 2005, 02:14 PM
I gotta disagree. The place needed to be evacuated to minimize looting. That means EVERYBODY has to go. If it had been me, I would have hated to leave but I would have hated looters running rampant even more.

Buddy, let me tell ya.....there is a big, big , BIG difference in you and me!!!

Crosshair
December 15, 2005, 02:38 PM
Is it possible that this could get taken to the SC and get a court decision on the right to bear arms?

Carl N. Brown
December 15, 2005, 03:00 PM
N.O.La police, Louisiana NG and the 82nd Airborne said they would not
disarm lawabiding citizens. So they brought in California Highway Patrol
and deputized them to go out and bodyslam the Patricia Konies and
take their guns.

After remaining in custody for several hours without charges being filed against her by authorities, she was flown alone to South Carolina where she remained for more than a month


This is not a new tactic.

After the 1993 Waco raid, one of the witnesses, gun dealer Henry McMahon, who knew that David Koresh had offered to let the ATF peaceably inspect his guns and paperwork months before the raid, was taken into "protective custody" and moved around the country to keep him from talking to reporters.

Creeping Incrementalism
December 15, 2005, 03:12 PM
Considering that:

• a federal judge has already ruled the taking of firearms from the residents of New Orelans who stayed behind to be illegal

• not evacuating in Lousiana is only a misdemeanor

• authorities weren't really evacuating everyone, only selectively taking away certain people

I don't see how this woman could lose. I just hope the CHP officers who perpatrated this crime get jail time too, or at the very least have to pay a signifcant fine and settlement. I don't know why people worry about the CHP having to pay a large fine. California has such a huge, wasteful, bloated budget that a couple million dollars is a drop in the bucket, and it would be worth it to send a message, and it would be me & my fellow Californians, not the rest of you, paying.

By the way, the footage of the CHP attacking the woman is from KTVU, which is a Fox-afiliated TV station in Oakland, CA.

stealthmode
December 15, 2005, 03:47 PM
good for her. i saw the video and it was terrible. the california highway patrol was just getting warmed up for when the go door to door in san francisco to disarm the subjects up there.

engineer151515
December 15, 2005, 05:33 PM
The video is edited.

I remember the original footage. If I remember right, when the LEO tackled her, you could her yell "You son of a bitchhhh" as she was going down.

I'm sure the unedited video will get plenty of air time in court.

caduckgunner
December 15, 2005, 06:53 PM
Considering that:

• a federal judge has already ruled the taking of firearms from the residents of New Orelans who stayed behind to be illegal

• not evacuating in Lousiana is only a misdemeanor

• authorities weren't really evacuating everyone, only selectively taking away certain people

I don't see how this woman could lose. I just hope the CHP officers who perpatrated this crime get jail time too, or at the very least have to pay a signifcant fine and settlement. I don't know why people worry about the CHP having to pay a large fine. California has such a huge, wasteful, bloated budget that a couple million dollars is a drop in the bucket, and it would be worth it to send a message, and it would be me & my fellow Californians, not the rest of you, paying.

By the way, the footage of the CHP attacking the woman is from KTVU, which is a Fox-afiliated TV station in Oakland, CA.

I think the CHP was practicing for Kalifornistans eventual confiscation(sp.?) of guns.:cuss:

atek3
December 16, 2005, 01:49 AM
"Paging Ms. Wolfe, please pick up the white curtesy phone. Ms. Wolfe, please pick up the white curtesy phone."

seriously!

robert garner
December 16, 2005, 08:06 AM
Please;whats the "Paging Mrs. Wolfe" reference? Feel I'm missin sumptin

Gunpacker
December 16, 2005, 11:49 AM
While being bodyslammed by a 200+ pound gorilla????Wow, how awful. Put her in a dungeon on bread and water. Give the cop a hero award. Can't let them edit out such damning evidence of citizen abuse of police. Get real, Engineer1515. :fire:

ctdonath
December 16, 2005, 12:06 PM
Claire Wolfe wrote the book "101 Things To Do Before The Revolution", and is often quoted for "It's too late to work within the system, but too early to shoot the bastards."

"Paging Mrs. Wolfe" is usually a reference to asking if it's not "too early" anymore.

mcosman
December 16, 2005, 12:12 PM
While being bodyslammed by a 200+ pound gorilla????Wow, how awful. Put her in a dungeon on bread and water. Give the cop a hero award. Can't let them edit out such damning evidence of citizen abuse of police. Get real, Engineer1515. :fire:

I don't think thats how Engioneer1515 intended that. I think he was just pointing out that the video had been edited. We are probably all still on the same side of the discussion here.

engineer151515
December 16, 2005, 01:20 PM
Anybody reading my previous posts where I hope she wins a MONSTEROUS award could probably tell where I stand and that I think she was wronged.

In fact, I admire her fighting spirit.

Carl N. Brown
December 16, 2005, 01:44 PM
I posted earlier on this after it happened:

A lot of us have seen or at least heard about the Channel 2
video reported by Ken Wayne who accompanied the California
Highway Patrol (CHiP) to New Orleans. To recap:

The ChiPs ran into a Patricia Konie, an elderly woman
whose house on Magazine Street was dry and intact. She
saw no need to evacuate. She had survived hurricanes before
for several days without running water or electricity.

Patricia Konie: "You're gonna have to shoot me because
I'm not going. I don't want you in here, period.

"I'm ok. I've got food, water, supplies, I'm not
afraid of looters, I've got a gun".

CHiP: "Can I see your gun?"

Konie: "Sure."

She held the gun around the cylinder, butt down, barrel up.

Three CHiPs the size of football lineman bodyslammed Konie
into the wall, yelling "She's got a gun!" They took her gun
and dragged her out of her house. She was taken by military
transport to be processed at the Convention Center: yes
indeed, much safer than her own home, especially a home with
a gun in it.

Reporter Ken Wayne justified this treatment to his
newsanchors back in California by saying that "it's an
indication of what highway patrol officers and police from
all over the nation are finding as they assist [local police]
in trying to evacuate this city. Dennis, Julie."

Dennis: "Ken, they are obviously going to use physical
force to remove someone who does not want to go. The obvious
question now is, would they use deadly force?"

Ken: "Well, I don't think so, Dennis. I mean, here you
had a woman with a gun, she's eldery, she doesn't appear to
be a threat, but a gun is a gun. And the officers certainly
had the option, you would think, in using deadly force. They
are not kicking down doors. They are not dragging people
from their homes, but in this case the woman had a gun, so
that's a bit of a different scenario. In the cases, the
other cases we saw, there were dozens of other people who
were removed. Most came out willingly, a few grumbled
about it...." otherwise they were good little sheeple and
not like the big, bad wolfwoman.

California troopers could not understand the mindset of
New Orleaners who are used riding out hurricanes then
doing without electricity or tap water for days, especially
people who traditionally keep guns at home for protection
and stockpile food, water and medicine for emergencies.

Janitor
December 16, 2005, 02:01 PM
but in this case the woman had a gun, so
that's a bit of a different scenario.
Yes. It is a bit of a different scenario. They had a person willing, able, and ready to take care of her own business. They should have minded theirs.
-

omnivore75
December 16, 2005, 06:17 PM
AMEN! Again I can only say that this is truly upsetting and I hope this issue is addressed and I don't mean in the typical sweep it under the rug fashion.

TallPine
December 16, 2005, 06:27 PM
Well, during those days in NO it was certainly time to STB :fire:

Apparently it didn't happen because no one thought the cops would do what they did until it was too late.

We know better now, though - don't we ....?

Gordy Wesen
December 16, 2005, 10:52 PM
WHERE'S THE MEMBER WHOSE BUDDY WAS IN ON THAT PIECE OF ACTION?
He said he'd get the scoop and let us know what his friend said.

Gordy Wesen
December 16, 2005, 10:56 PM
Oh, almost forgot.
I hope she wins big. And I hope Bubba gets sent back for retraining.

Creeping Incrementalism
December 17, 2005, 12:38 AM
WHERE'S THE MEMBER WHOSE BUDDY WAS IN ON THAT PIECE OF ACTION?
He said he'd get the scoop and let us know what his friend said.

Yeah, I remember that too, but not his name and never came across him saying anything more about it.

natedog
December 17, 2005, 02:17 AM
is it right? no
is it fair? hell no
is it what will happen? probably so

And because it is not right, and not fair, this woman will take legal recourse, most likely settle for a few million, and the JBTs in question will (hopefully) be fired, and if we're lucky will have to serve prison sentences.

Things like this make me want to be a lawyer.

50 Freak
December 17, 2005, 05:02 AM
I have the unedited "original" first airing of this event. If someone will host it for me.

Johnny_Yuma
December 17, 2005, 06:17 AM
and then pulled a gun on officers present to rescue her. At least according to LE on the ground.

Personally, I hope she wins BIG.

Nio
December 17, 2005, 12:18 PM
I have the unedited "original" first airing of this event. If someone will host it for me.

I'll host it for you. I've got one version up here:

http://www.theplacewithnoname.com/t/Gun_grab.wmv

I don't know if it's the same.

If not, send it straight to:

shane at theplacewithnoname dot com

Nio

Johnny_Yuma
December 17, 2005, 05:00 PM
deleted by me

NineseveN
December 17, 2005, 05:58 PM
I just watched the video. She WAS given notice of the evacuation and then pulled a gun on her rescuers. This DID NOT happen the way you people are posing it. The woman is lucky she isn't dead. If I had been there she would have gotten an up-close look at the business end of my Glock, as seen over my size 10 Mpact boot on her neck. I would expect charges to be filed any day now except that no AUSA has the fortitude to prosecute this case.

I originally supported those that stayed in their homes. However, after talking with LE on the ground in NOLA, I am convinced that NOBODY had any business riding out this storm. Thankfully, all citizens seemed to have kept SOME of their wits and NOT fired on LE evacuating them to safety.

"I don't want you in here." Yeah? Fine - follow orders and GET OUT and we'll leave.

JY


Um, what? Are you serious?

Nio
December 17, 2005, 06:19 PM
"I don't want you in here." Yeah? Fine - follow orders and GET OUT and we'll leave.

And how we burned in the camps later, thinking: What would things have been like if every Security operative, when he went out at night to make an arrest, had been uncertain whether he would return alive and had to say good-bye to his family? Or if, during periods of mass arrests, as for example in Leningrad, when they arrested a quarter of the entire city, people had not simply sat there in their lairs, paling in terror at every bang of the downstairs door and at every step on the staircase, but had understood they had nothing left to lose and had boldly set up in the downstairs hall an ambush of half a dozen people with axes, hammers, pokers, or whatever else was at hand?

The Organs would very quickly have suffered a shortage of officers and transport and, notwithstanding all of Stalin’s thirst, the cursed machine would have ground to a halt!

-- Alexandr Solzhenitsyn, "The Gulag Archipelago"

Nio

homeka45
December 17, 2005, 06:25 PM
Solzhenitsyn sums things up very nicely.
Yuma, why the retraction? Surely it was in jest.
ETA, I hope they get a huge award.

Crosshair
December 17, 2005, 07:46 PM
50 Freak

I have the unedited "original" first airing of this event. If someone will host it for me.

How big is the file, I have some webspace to spare.

pmcbooks
December 18, 2005, 11:38 AM
And how we burned in the camps later, thinking: What would things have been like if every Security operative, when he went out at night to make an arrest, had been uncertain whether he would return alive and had to say good-bye to his family? Or if, during periods of mass arrests, as for example in Leningrad, when they arrested a quarter of the entire city, people had not simply sat there in their lairs, paling in terror at every bang of the downstairs door and at every step on the staircase, but had understood they had nothing left to lose and had boldly set up in the downstairs hall an ambush of half a dozen people with axes, hammers, pokers, or whatever else was at hand?

The Organs would very quickly have suffered a shortage of officers and transport and, notwithstanding all of Stalin’s thirst, the cursed machine would have ground to a halt!

-- Alexandr Solzhenitsyn, "The Gulag Archipelago"

Nio

Finally got around to reading this after seeing it mentioned so many times. Continued:

"If ... if ... We didn't love freedom enough."
"We spent ourselves in one unrestrained outburst in 1917, and then we hurried to submit. We submitted with pleasure!"
"We purely and simply deserved what happened afterward."

omnivore75
December 18, 2005, 02:12 PM
Well the way I heard it the cops ASKED for her gun and she held it around the cylinder and showed it. I dont care either way though because the way they took that old lady down with her old revolver in her possession was UNEXCUSABLE but I guess LEO's can always find an excuse for the wrongdoings of their bretherin. My great grandfather was a city policeman and after he retired he was shot dead by someone who he had to take down during his career so I have as much or more respect than most for the L.E. community and even though I am no angel myself and I have had a run in or two with L.E.'s in my life I ALWAYS respect the job and have donated to the P.B.A. numerous times, but I and everyone else knows even if they don't admit it that cops who are dirty and the cops that lie or misrepresent facts to excuse misdeeds committed by fellow officers are what gives all cops a bad name.:( Say what you will but when you have seen corruption and lawbreaking by LEO'S right in front of your face like I have it makes you understand just how common it is and truly makes one greatful for the good honest officers out there who have to put up with the crap and hatred that is brought about by other officers who could give two loads of crap for the law and the people they are sworn to protect (Like the Cali officers in question for instance and we don't have to guess why they chose CALI officers to do this do we??)This woman was in HER HOME BOTHERING NO ONE AND BREAKING NO LAWS!!! SHE HAD FOOD AND WATER AND WANTED NO HELP!!!! I fail to see how anyone cannot understand these simple facts. My god what happened to FREEDOM!! This is AMERICA FOR GODS SAKE!!:cuss: :mad: All I can say is that if the worse ever does happen anyone who comes to disrm me will have to pry my guns from my cold dead hands as the saying goes no matter what uniform they wear. I hope this lady CLEANS UP in her lawsuit and I hope the LEO's in question go to prison for some really intense lessons in life.

goalie
December 18, 2005, 07:26 PM
Originally Posted by Johnny_Yuma
I just watched the video. She WAS given notice of the evacuation and then pulled a gun on her rescuers. This DID NOT happen the way you people are posing it. The woman is lucky she isn't dead. If I had been there she would have gotten an up-close look at the business end of my Glock, as seen over my size 10 Mpact boot on her neck. I would expect charges to be filed any day now except that no AUSA has the fortitude to prosecute this case.

I originally supported those that stayed in their homes. However, after talking with LE on the ground in NOLA, I am convinced that NOBODY had any business riding out this storm. Thankfully, all citizens seemed to have kept SOME of their wits and NOT fired on LE evacuating them to safety.

"I don't want you in here." Yeah? Fine - follow orders and GET OUT and we'll leave.

JY

I hope that, if it ever comes to it, the JBT's are of your mindset. That way I will know what I am doing is morally justified.

The rest of my thoughts are not suitable for this forum.

makanut
December 18, 2005, 07:34 PM
"Evacuating them to safety????":scrutiny: All righty then.

Mad Chemist
December 18, 2005, 07:46 PM
Can someone host the vid for 50 Freak?
This would clarify the situation and settle much of the speculation.

makanut
December 18, 2005, 07:47 PM
Someone should have informed Ponch and John that gun grabbing in the United States is not just frowned upon, it's F*****G ILLEGAL! I suppose they're so accustomed to the standard operating procedure for gun grabs in their own fruity republic, so it's only natural that California standards be applied to South Louisiana. :cuss: :fire:

NineseveN
December 18, 2005, 08:42 PM
The rest of my thoughts are not suitable for this forum.

That's kind of where my mind was, but given the circumstances, I was hoping I minunderstood Mr. Yuma or perhaps that the post that arrived in my inbox was in jest. It seems he retracted it, but I'd rather not single him out, I'm more curious now if that's the prevailing attitude of LEO's in this day and age...maybe not on this board, I'm more concerned about those that don't subscribe so much to "the high road". :uhoh:

drinks
December 18, 2005, 08:54 PM
I do not understand why criminal complaints of armed robbery, felonious assult and official oppression have not been filed against the people who did this.
:mad:

mountainclmbr
December 18, 2005, 09:03 PM
My thoughts are not suitable for print either. But I would charge the city for the shotgun shells!

Johnny_Yuma
December 18, 2005, 09:26 PM
I wrote a couple of sarcastic posts that didn't look so clever upon posting. I retracted it when I saw how it looked but not before somebody clipped it and quoted it. Now, some of you guys are talking about shooting cops. Who's the bad guy here?

My posting history on the Katrina subject is fairly clear.

http://www.thehighroad.org/showthread.php?p=1902047#post1902047
http://www.thehighroad.org/showthread.php?p=1901381#post1901381
http://www.thehighroad.org/showthread.php?p=1901273#post1901273

Ryder
December 18, 2005, 09:30 PM
Thanks for the follow-up story. I was wondering what became of her.

As I recall she told the cops not to enter her house and only produced the gun in an effort to satisfy them that she was able to protect herself? They were quite brutal in educating her otherwise.

I'm amazed to hear people can actually buy their way out of such things. :what:

Pilgrim
December 18, 2005, 09:49 PM
Traditionally, individual officers never pay general or punitive damages. The damages are picked up and paid for by his employing government agency. If the employing government agency doesn't pick up the tab, the officer invariably sues his employer for failing to train him to handle the situation that caused him to violate someone's civil rights.

It is an exercise in paradox. An officer swears to defend the constitution and people's rights, but he has to admit he doesn't know what those civil rights are in order to sue his employer for failing to train him.

Pilgrim

Zundfolge
December 18, 2005, 10:02 PM
nevermind

Sindawe
December 18, 2005, 11:30 PM
wrote a couple of sarcastic posts that didn't look so clever upon posting.Think thrice, post once.

I'm not surprised some of our members have responded rather vehemently to your now deleted posting that smacks of jack-booted thuggary.

As I think I've said before, the clowns in uniform who perpetrated the abuse of citizens liberties in NO post Katrina need to be scanning the want ads for another job.

goalie
December 19, 2005, 12:44 AM
Now, some of you guys are talking about shooting cops. Who's the bad guy here?



The cops that took the lady in question down needed shooting. To call them jack-booted thugs would be a compliment.

Byron Quick
December 19, 2005, 01:09 AM
She might get money. I hope so. I have very little confidence that any government employee will be held accountable in any meaningful way whatsoever. Maybe if one of the cops has upset a superior in some way then the matter will be used against him. Otherwise, it will be a case of circling the wagons once again.

Duach Laidir
December 19, 2005, 03:08 AM
Having read all the posts in this thread and watched the video clip, I'm right on the side of the lady.
I'm down in Australia where the state of New South Wales has just experienced race riots, sparked by the bashing of two Lifesavers (Lifeguards) by allegedly "...men of Middle Eastern appearance".

Perhaps some of you saw the reports on US television?

In one beach-side suburb, Maraobra, over 100 cars were trashed.
Roofs stomped in all glass smashed and residents who ventured out were bashed. One woman was hit across the side/front of her head with a baseball bat.

Self defence in Not a reason to possess a firearm in all Australian states and territories.

From a Sydney newspaper
http://dailytelegraph.news.com.au/story/0,20281,17604468-5001021,00.html

Carl N. Brown
December 19, 2005, 12:58 PM
My home state constitution Section 26:

That the citizens of this state have a right to keep and to
bear arms for their common defense; but the Legislature shall
have power, by law, to regulate the wearing of arms with a
view to prevent crime.

That text was finalized in 1870.
The state courts and attorney generals have ruled that the constitution
protects individual ownership for self-defense and the state courts have
ruled that this protection extends to possession for other common, lawful
purposes, including hunting and livestock protection. And on the wearing:
we have shall-issue handgun carry permits (open or concealed).

What happened in N.O. La. violated the Louisiana State Constitution as
well, irregardless how people want to read the federal Second Amendment.

Patricia Konie DID NOT treaten the CHiPS with her gun as has been posted.
She told them she had a gun, they asked to see it, she showed it in a
nonthreatening manner and they tackled her. Blue state cops tend to be
trigger happy over citizens with guns, so I guess she's lucky they only
dislocated her shoulder. I have handled firearms in the presence of local
police without them acting threatened, but us red staters are just not as
soo-fist-a-cated as CA, IL, MA, NY--Thank God!!!

Carl N. Brown
December 19, 2005, 01:01 PM
I have gone off half-cocked and shot myself in the foot a couple'a'times.
Join the club. Just learn to research before posting.

Nekron
December 19, 2005, 01:11 PM
I'll tell you why: because the cameras were rolling!!

If they knock on a door and tell someone they're under orders to evacuate everyone, do you think they're gonna let some old woman tell them to "go away" and they're just gonna do it?? Hell no!! Can't loose face like that on national television! Who does she think she is telling me "No!"!!

She should've never opened the door; I wouldn't have. Make 'em kick it down. That would look real good on camera.:rolleyes:

Stormtroopers following orders...................

They should've been out looking for the roving gangs of armed criminals.

omnivore75
December 19, 2005, 01:25 PM
I was just reading a quote from one of the contributing authors to Handguns Magazine in the newest issue in which he says that he and one of his fellow Californian gun writers have a daily discussion on whether or not Cali is even still a part of the United States anymore. The gun grabbing attitude of Cali police and officials is a perfect example of what is wrong with the country right now and I hope to god that the attitude never spreads to TN and other pro gun states cause that would really suck. As I said before we all know why they used the Cali HP officers in this incident don't we?? Their storm trooper/gun grabber tactics were just what the powers who were in charge at the time wanted to disarm the law abiding gun owners of NO.:cuss: Truly sad.

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