Burn The Land And Boil The Sea You Can't Take The Sky From Me...Are We Dinosaurs??


PDA






cslinger
December 14, 2005, 09:00 PM
Sorry for the shameless Firefly quote but it brings forth a question.

Are we dinosaurs? Are we obsolete? Has the rest of the world decided that it would rather live under the control of others instead of living free. Is safety more important than freedom. Is the individual no longer as important as the whole?

I carry jumper cables, a fire extinguisher, first aid kit, knife, tools, flashlight etc. and I meet so few other folks who dont so much as carry their own jumper cables. Now I am not a cowboy, nor was I brought up in the wilderness, hell I don't even hunt. So what makes me so different. Why do I want to be self sufficient? Why do I care about self defense of myself and my family? Am I the dinosaur? Am I resistent to change?

Just a random thought as sometimes I really feel like "Burn The sky and boil the sea you can't take the sky from me....I'm still free."

So my question is are we a dying breed. I hope not cuz I am a youngin' comparitively speaking 31, ok 32 in a few days :uhoh:

So what makes us gun folks different?

If you enjoyed reading about "Burn The Land And Boil The Sea You Can't Take The Sky From Me...Are We Dinosaurs??" here in TheHighRoad.org archive, you'll LOVE our community. Come join TheHighRoad.org today for the full version!
mmike87
December 14, 2005, 09:07 PM
No need to apologize for the Firefly quote. The series and the movie totally rocked.

Are we obsolete? No. After the "big one" (whatever that may end up being, someday - we we KNOW the big one is coming, tomorrow or 500 years from now) those who practice some level of preparedness will be the ones left.

In my eyes, that makes everyone ELSE an "endangered species."

It's not easy staying on the top of the food chain. But it is fun trying.

Spot77
December 14, 2005, 09:29 PM
Americans have become pretty complacent - life has been good for us for the last few decades. Urbanization means that you're rarely 3 minutes away from every convenience you can think of. So in a way, yes we are dinosaurs; relics of a bygone era.

Now, I don't mean to paint everybody with the same wide brush, but a lot of us DO live in an urban or suburban area with very few inconveniences. The power rarely goes out. Water is reliable. Services and shopping are a stone's throw away. Cellphones are a dime a dozen.

But I'm with you Cslinger; I still carry all those things with me in the car. Plus food and water. It's just a smart thing to do, especially living in the Baltimore/Washington area with all the nice targets for terrorists, disgusting traffic and wonderful youths such as the nice fellows from MS-13.

"Better to have it and not need it than....." oh why am I preaching to the choir? :confused:

Say hi to that lovely wife of yours for me.

cslinger
December 14, 2005, 09:37 PM
Say hi to that lovely wife of yours for me.

Right back atcha'. Hope the get together at DuClaw went well. How I was thinking about that on December 7th. Well Pearl first but you get the point. Wish I could have been there.

I just don't understand how normally intelligent, educated people do not understand how fragile our infrastructure is. Now I am not talking TEOTWAWKI but something as simple as a short disruption in fuel or power or water etc. Why are we looked upon as a group as crazy just because we want to keep a couple weeks of supplies. Not months or years. Not living in a Bunker. It just boggles my mind. I guess being a Boy Scout did pay off.

But I'm with you Cslinger; I still carry all those things with me in the car. Plus food and water. It's just a smart
Funny last time I sold my truck I was emptying it out at the dealer and the salesman looked at me like I was ready for anything. Asked me if I was a paramedic or a cop etc as I emptied all my crap. I just said nope but I am prepared to be all those things and more and so should you.

I digress. Anyhow take care.

Chris

secamp32
December 14, 2005, 09:37 PM
The Gov'ment will provide for me. :D

BozemanMT
December 14, 2005, 09:55 PM
I've come to the realization in the last couple weeks that, I don't know if obsolete is the right word, but passed by.
The war is over, we lost.:cuss: America, the land of the free is gone, replaced by something that no one would recognize even from 1920, heck, even 1960.
People want their little TV (TV is the scourge of it), their "things", etc and someone that will take care of them. "it's for the children"
We have become a nation of subjects and they like it.
me?

Moulon Labe.:neener:

MechAg94
December 14, 2005, 10:20 PM
You know, I carry tools, jumper cables, and other stuff. I don't have any food or water or a bug out bag in the truck, but I probably should. Most of the stuff I carry is stuff that I have had to use on occasion. I carry two key rings with house and car keys. I have locked my keys in the car on more than one occasion. It has never been an issue since I carry the spare. The house key thing only happened once. Jumper cables has happenned a few times. I used to carry that Rescue gas substitute. Used it once. It just pays to have those things and it takes so little effort.

It all goes back to learning your lessons and remembering them rather than just dismissing mistakes and continuing on blissfully in ignorance.

As far as our infrastructure being fragile, all I had to do was see how we leveled Iraq in the first Gulf War. We tore their whole infrastruction down in days.

Rock and Glock
December 14, 2005, 10:29 PM
I don't think we're a dying breed. We're still at the top of the food chain, however, more and more Americans are taking that position for granted and failing to take responsibility for their own wellbeing and safety. They cede those responsibilities to others.

Those of us that are preparing, self-sufficient or close thereto, and/or reliant upon mainly ourselves still have the opportunity to instill those values in our children and granchildren. That is why we are not dinosaurs - we can teach our young.

We, as Americans, do run the risk of sinking into a more dysfunctional society, more self-centered, more materialistic, more consumer oriented and thus sowing the seeds of our demise. We, as individuals, have the responsibility to ourselves and our progeny to avoid that trap, and help others avoid it also.

My wife and I are lucky. We the parents of two young adult that understand many of the above lessons well - they are on the path of learning, and hopefully we'll be around to help them in the future.

No, we're not dinosaurs, but the risk is very much present that we could have the same ultimate fate if the society we are a part of does not alter its current course.

:cool:

Standing Wolf
December 14, 2005, 11:06 PM
We have become a nation of subjects and they like it.

"We have met the enemy, and he is us."
—Pogo

Kim
December 14, 2005, 11:08 PM
Yes. We are obsolete and doomed. One little example from toady. Now this is just one I could list at least ten. 9 year old girl brought from shcool by her mother to my clinic.What is wrong? Why the child fell at school. She says her right knee hurts. It there a even an abrasion, red spot, bruise, any swelling? No to all of these. Can she walk without it hurting? Yes. Does she even limp? NO. --------------BUT SHE SAID IT HURT!!!!!!!!!!!! Does it hurt now> Not really the little girls says. BUY THE MOM WANTS AN X-RAY. I know 100% the x-ray will be normal and it was. I also know by tomorrow it will not hurt at all. But as a group of people this is one of many things I see that tells me we have a BIG problem. My mother and any other I grew up with would not even have known I fell at school. I would not have been taken to a doctor. No x-ray would have been done. Money would not have been wasted and I did not grow up thinking everytime I stumble in life it is an emergency.:eek:

Red Dragon
December 14, 2005, 11:32 PM
So what makes us gun folks different?

Uh..that would be the fact that we still use things like Logic.

MedGrl
December 15, 2005, 12:01 AM
I have in the trunk of my car :
Jumper cables, flashlight, extra batteries for said flashlight, road flares, first aid kit, fire extinguisher and minimal tool kit; all stored in the space with my spare tire, tire iron and jack.

When I was taking my car 200 + miles away from home where I am frequently driving mountain highways where I don't get cell phone service I wanted to be sure I could fix anything minor well enough to get me to the nearest town. I know people who dont have so much as a box of tissues in their vehicle and think I am paranoid. Well you know what?

I'm not paranoid I am prepared. I hope for the best and prepare for the worst. That way I'm not in trouble when my optimism turns out to be foild one or two times.

We have (in general, this doesn't apply to all ) become a nation of self centered, want what you want when you want it people. We have instant gratification from the time we are children and expect the government to take the place of our parents when we grow older and continue to provide for us with as little effort on our part.

I am far from old...I'm still in college. But I see most of my peers takeing up the "gimmie" attitude. I am often ashamed to admit that these people are my contemporaries. The most likely solution is going to be that people like those here at the high road teach their children the value of working and earning your privledges and eventualy they will teach their children and hopefuly it will take over as the norm...or mabey I'm too young and naieve/optimistic/idealistic to see where my generation and our decendants are heading...who knows.

trickyasafox
December 15, 2005, 12:59 AM
im 21 years old. are we a dying breed? yea i think so. That being said it wont take much for us to come surging back with avengence. any power outages, water problems(floods or lack of water) or any one of a hundred things could go wrong and we few who took the minute to prepare will be on top. everyone remembers the story of the grasshopper and the ant. the ant slaved all summer while the grasshopper played. guess who starved come winter?

i get funny looks for keeping the most BASIC things in my dorm room! i have a decent pocket knife, which people think is crazy, glow sticks, extra batteries, and a gallon of water/juice or whatever. that and some random other little trinkets like battary powered radios. they ask what will you ever need that for? how often does the power go out at college? I'll tell you what in 03 when the power went out in all of new york, i was the only kid who had anything useful. EVERYONE sang a different tune then.

people think of us as gun nuts and survalists. we ARENT those things. . .okay maybe a few of us are :) but the point is it pays to take the minute, spend the extra dollar, and buy some piece of mind. Be that a gun, some extra food, or even a basic tool kit and a decent flashlight.

we arent extremists, we are realists. forget the society is a shell mentality, sh it happens, in everyday lives. you get flat tires, you run out of gas, the power goes out. the world doesnt stop, but your life gets a lot easier if you took the time to have some foresight.

M-Rex
December 15, 2005, 01:04 AM
I'm not paranoid I am prepared. I hope for the best and prepare for the worst. That way I'm not in trouble when my optimism turns out to be foild one or two times.

Much wisdom in that statement.

It is never foolish to prepare for adversity.

firefighter4884
December 15, 2005, 01:10 AM
People think i'm crazy...

I carry a large FA bag in my trunk (I'm an EMT, so it makes sense) as well as a relatively large set of tools. I have a full size mag light mounted in my trunk, and I have several other lights in the car. I also have an emergency battery charger in the glove box (you plug it into the cig lighter and it'll let you start your car, even with a dead battery, but only works once).

It's a matter of being prepared, and when it comes to some kind of emergency, we're the people that everyone runs to.

--Jim

~a prepared 21 y/o college student.

Nematocyst
December 15, 2005, 01:16 AM
Americans have become pretty complacent - life has been good for us for the last few decades. Urbanization means that you're rarely 3 minutes away from every convenience you can think of. So in a way, yes we are dinosaurs; relics of a bygone era. That captures the essence of the issue for me.

"We" (= most of our fellow citizens) have become complacent because life has been good for the last few decades. We've been able to procure our basic needs by {choose one or more} turning on the tap; turning on the switch; turning on the gas; driving to Macs or the grocery; calling 911....

Should things change rapidly {as is inevitable in any nonlinear system like societies - just ask any of the great former civilizations... you think this one is any different?}, few will be prepared to get food & water, let alone jump a dead battery or defend against those trying to take their food, water & battery.

This reminds me of another thread (http://www.thehighroad.org/showthread.php?t=166972) that seems to be somewhat ... quiescent of late.

Nem

Borachon
December 15, 2005, 02:04 AM
If they take the Second Amendment from us...they'll rape us to death, eat our flesh, and sew our skins into their clothing. And if we're very, very lucky...they'll do it in that order. ---Zoe, Firefly Pilot Movie (revised version):D

Azrael256
December 15, 2005, 03:03 AM
Complete set of wrenches, screwdrivers, hammers, sockets, etc. in an old tanker's bag in my trunk. All the necessary fluids and an extra set of belts, along with the usual tow strap, flares, etc. Fire extinguisher stays under my seat. I figure seconds running to the trunk count when something is burning. M3 medkit back there, a couple days of food (MRE entrees) and two canteens of water on my web gear. A maglite and an electric lantern. Two sets of batteries for each. Naturally, I have one or two "equalizers" on me or in the trunk at all times (loadout depending on the situation). This stuff weighs less than an extra passenger, and it has been used, numerous times, for its intended purpose (mostly tools, and never for my car, oddly). I even check my spare every Sunday when I check the other tires.

We had a 9-hour power outage at school October of '04. Kids went home. They couldn't live without power. I was a little annoyed at having to use the head in the dark, but other than that, I thought it was really fun. Seriously, kids went home. We're talking 200 mile drive on a cold and rainy Thursday night because the juice was off. We didn't even lose phones, so their knights in flashing lights were just a 911 away. It was total SHTF to them. It was like a camping trip in a nice cabin at the lake to me. Candlelight poker games, cooking over a Sterno can, and even a couple of ghost stories (and maybe the odd nip of rye... or maybe not. you can't prove anything).

When the power kicked just before lunch, I hoofed it up to my room. I poured the rest of the coffee in my thermos, grabbed the maglite, and headed back outside. I got just past the outside door when I saw this freshman coming down the opposite stairwell. He had a poncho in one hand, and an electric brakeman's lantern in the other. Mind you, this was ~1130.
"Hey, Andy, what was your Eagle project?"
"We did a bunch of landscaping at the nursing home."
"Ah, good one."
"Wait, how'd you know I was an Eagle Scout?"
"Lucky guess."

Andy was one of six people I saw with so much as a flashlight.

The foodservice people, never to be defeated, whipped up a meal for us with some of the outdoor cooking stuff they have for picnics. Nothing fancy, just chili-cheese dogs, burgers, and a couple pans of brownies and rice crispie treats graciously sent to us by another university (yeah, we ate like kings). Out of the five or six hundred who walk through the cafeteria during dinnertime, the count was forty seven when they closed it down at 1900.

Power was back to all of campus by 2100. Pansies. They must be afraid of the dark. Remind me to get away from this idiot factory PDQ if we ever have a real emergency.

1911user
December 15, 2005, 04:02 AM
The Serenity DVD is released Dec. 20 just in time for the holidays. Great series and hope the movie is just as good.

Zedicus
December 15, 2005, 04:10 AM
I carry jumper cables, a fire extinguisher, first aid kit, knife, tools, flashlight etc. and I meet so few other folks who dont so much as carry their own jumper cables. Now I am not a cowboy, nor was I brought up in the wilderness, hell I don't even hunt. So what makes me so different. Why do I want to be self sufficient? Why do I care about self defense of myself and my family? Am I the dinosaur? Am I resistent to change

Should see what most people in the UK dont have in there car's....
over 90% dont even have so much as a gas can or even a road flare, most only are armed with a cell phone and a towing service card...:banghead:

Bruce333
December 15, 2005, 05:32 AM
Yes. We are obsolete and doomed. One little example from toady. Now this is just one I could list at least ten. 9 year old girl brought from shcool by her mother to my clinic.What is wrong? Why the child fell at school. She says her right knee hurts. It there a even an abrasion, red spot, bruise, any swelling? No to all of these. Can she walk without it hurting? Yes. Does she even limp? NO. --------------BUT SHE SAID IT HURT!!!!!!!!!!!! Does it hurt now> Not really the little girls says. BUY THE MOM WANTS AN X-RAY. I know 100% the x-ray will be normal and it was. I also know by tomorrow it will not hurt at all. But as a group of people this is one of many things I see that tells me we have a BIG problem. My mother and any other I grew up with would not even have known I fell at school. I would not have been taken to a doctor. No x-ray would have been done. Money would not have been wasted and I did not grow up thinking everytime I stumble in life it is an emergency.:eek:This is the attitude of my employer. We now have to have a doctors note to use any of our sick leave. I hope they all enjoy me spreading around any cold or flu I get 'cause I'm not using my vacation time when I'm sick. I only go to the doctor for checkups and serious stuff (like broken bones), not every little ache and pain or sniffle.

How many times has someone told me I could save some gas if I wouldn't carry all "that junk" around in my car.

MedGrl
December 15, 2005, 07:00 AM
The Serenity DVD is released Dec. 20 just in time for the holidays. Great series and hope the movie is just as good.

THe movie was realy good...I was a fan of the show for it's short lived run on TV and have the DVD's and I saw the movie opening night...It was rely god...i'm gonna stop ther before I ruin it for someone.

beaucoup ammo
December 15, 2005, 07:35 AM
Love the quote by the way. Not to be trite, but I WAS a Boy Scout..and being preparred (with a couple of noteable exceptions) has served me well.

My wife and I don't owe anyone anything (sometimes we eat beans..but they're from OUR garden!) There's no feeling in the world like that of being free.. and independent of having to rely on others.

I'm older than you and, Brother, believe me.. you're on the right track!

Take Care

beaucoup ammo
December 15, 2005, 07:40 AM
We've stored enough anti-biotics, pain killers, etc. for an army. All a doc will do is hit you for an office visit and give you an RX.

Take Care

Manedwolf
December 15, 2005, 08:37 AM
I've come to the realization in the last couple weeks that, I don't know if obsolete is the right word, but passed by.
The war is over, we lost.:cuss: America, the land of the free is gone, replaced by something that no one would recognize even from 1920, heck, even 1960.
People want their little TV (TV is the scourge of it), their "things", etc and someone that will take care of them. "it's for the children"
We have become a nation of subjects and they like it.
me?

Moulon Labe.:neener:

Except they don't want a little TV. They've been trained to want a SIXTY INCH PLASMA!!!....that they can't afford, but they have plenty of credit cards, right?

I always wonder at what point vast majorities of the middle and lower classes equated "wealth" as being the same as "credit limit".

You can have the STUFF you've been trained to have, right? No matter if you can't do the math and it'd take you 30 years to pay off three times what the actual price was, when you're done!

Hutch
December 15, 2005, 11:11 AM
I try to be prepared for adversity. I don't expect it. I'm actually a bit resigned to the fact that I'll always be a bit... odd. It does, however, serve nicely as one of the organizing principles for my life. Soaks up some spare time and spare cash, and it doesn't harm me or my family. I mean, some folks play golf, right? I worry.

BryanP
December 15, 2005, 11:30 AM
I hate to say it Chris, but yeah.

I stopped to help someone the other day. Adult man & wife in their 20's. Flat tire. Flat tire. He had a spare but no jack and didn't know how to change a tire. I'm not a mechanical guy. I can't fix broken cars, but knowing how to change a tire? :uhoh:

I got my jack out and had him do it while I told him what to do and told him to go buy himself a jack.

And yeah, I keep all that stuff in my car too. Right now there's no fire extinguisher but that's because I gave it to someone and haven't bought a replacement. Which reminds me, my youngest brother and his wife just bought a house. I have to go out and pick up my standard housewarming gift - fire extinguishers.

pax
December 15, 2005, 11:42 AM
I'm too young to be a dinosaur.

pax

I believe in loyalty. When a woman reaches an age she likes, she should stick with it. -- Eva Gabor

mrmeval
December 15, 2005, 11:57 AM
TV is dying, thank what ever deity you want, bloggers replace talking heads, hollywood is lame, indie films rock and radio is ball less, get some indie tunes or videos on the internet. I sing the body electric, I sing the independance dance. Not one to tell me who to vote for, I now have more than three. Not one to tell me who to listen to, I have a dozen you see. No one to tell me who to read I read a dozen at once. Serial consumption of video, text and whine. I am the new generation. This is my time.

I've come to the realization in the last couple weeks that, I don't know if obsolete is the right word, but passed by.
The war is over, we lost.:cuss: America, the land of the free is gone, replaced by something that no one would recognize even from 1920, heck, even 1960.
People want their little TV (TV is the scourge of it), their "things", etc and someone that will take care of them. "it's for the children"
We have become a nation of subjects and they like it.
me?

Moulon Labe.:neener:

mbs357
December 15, 2005, 12:01 PM
I'm too young to be a dinosaur.

pax

Best reply yet.

So far this is a great thread, I'll be keeping an eye on it.

geekWithA.45
December 15, 2005, 12:04 PM
Unpopular, perhaps, but it never was a popularity contest.

Obsolete?

Never. The world will always have a place for people who can make their own way, even though we be surrounded by fools and outnumbered thousands to one.

Sindawe
December 15, 2005, 12:15 PM
They've been trained to want a SIXTY INCH PLASMA!!! I don't want a 60" plasma. Would'nt fit in my home. 32" LCD for gaming though would be nice, resolution on my CRT TV sucks for gaming. But its not in the budget. :D The world will always have a place for people who can make their own way, even though we be surrounded by fools and outnumbered thousands to one.Too true. I keep the emergency bag in the car as well. FA kit, food, water, some simple tools, jumper cables, a thermal blanket and a couple of mylar space blankets. I've advised my family to do the same since moving here, but nope. :banghead:

geekWithA.45
December 15, 2005, 12:28 PM
One of the harder parts, I think, is to remember that the fools we are surrounded by are people too.

Actually, that's not that hard.

Sorting out the appropriate level of contempt and derision to hold them in, if any, and to whom to apply that to is hard.

DaveInFloweryBranchGA
December 15, 2005, 01:37 PM
Interesting post, no, you're not a dinosaur and it only takes a little thing like a hurricane to prove it to you.

Just recently on the radio news, it was announced that due to katrina, the gas pipline from New Orleans to Atlanta was going to be cut back severly. I called my wife and told her to go immediately to gas up and I did the same. I then called my son in college and had him do the same. After that, I called my buddy who's an Eagle Scout and his response was "I'm already on it and I've called my son (His son is another Eagle Scout.) who responded: "I've already done it Dad.""

Later that night, he and I got into a discussion. Both of us own means of cooking food without electric stoves, such as both propane and kerosene camp stoves of various types. Both own kerosene heaters and have a fireplace with a couple cords of wood in the backyard. We both own canned foods and MRE's. We both own lots of guns with way more ammo than the government or current politically correct thinking would be comfortable with us having. We both have trucks, emergency gear and spare parts, oil, etc. I could go on and on. We suprised each other and during this discussion, we discussed what we would have done had we been the ones living in New Orleans. The concensus was, the first thing either would of done was to gather the family and call the other, as we knew the other was prepared, armed and could help the other insure the survival of our families--to the point of rebuilding society, if necessary.

If that's being a dinosaur, then we must have scales. BTW, both our sons own firearms.

My son recently started a gun club inside the University of North Carolina at Chapel Hill campus. He's not politically correct, but he's prepared, well informed, active politically and he's armed. If he's a dinosaur, then by God, may all dinosaurs be as prepared as he. He's 20, owns a scoped 30-06, a 12 gauge shotgun, a Mosin-Nagant 91/30, a .22 bolt action and soon will get a 1911 pistol for his 21st birthday. He's got an American bulldog puppy as a pet, drives a 4 wheel drive SUV (Inherited from Mom.), but wants a truck. He's also very active in the college republicans there on campus.

I'm glad to see there are other dinosaurs that are prepared. Let's me know I'll have help if society needs to be put back together.

Regards,

Dave

The Freeholder
December 15, 2005, 02:12 PM
cslinger, you're just a throwback, like most of the rest of the folks around here. A dinosaur, however? I don't think so.

If the future holds what I'm afraid it holds, it's the people without the jumper cables (and food, water, weapons, etc.) that will be dinosaurs. Dead dinosaurs.

I liked the Firefly quote. I have to wonder if more of us were like the crew of the Serenity, would we all be better off?

benEzra
December 15, 2005, 02:15 PM
The thread title reminds me of a Far Side cartoon:

Some of the more environmentally aware dinosaurs were worried about the consequences of an accident with the new iridium-enriched fusion reactor. "If it goes off, only the cockroaches and mammals will survive."

I have to say, though that the people who don't take the future for granted, and who are adaptable enough (through foresight or whatever) to weather crises, aren't the dinosaurs; they're the mammals. :D

NMshooter
December 15, 2005, 08:29 PM
Dinosaurs?

Ha!

We are the descendants of people who ate their way through every continent on the planet, crossing the oceans to do so in some cases, wiping out numerous competitor species and food animals in the process.

I bet dinosaurs taste like chicken.:evil:

As for the disparity between the folks on this site and the majority of people we all deal with every day, we all have our specialities, and each is useful according to the current situation we each find ourselves in.

Not that an extreme situation might not favor a few at the expense of many, but you might be suprised how many folks can rise to the occasion, especially if they have someone to follow.

People are scary critters, we are.;)

Hardware
December 15, 2005, 08:52 PM
No, no, no, you got it all wrong. We're not the dinosaurs. We're the sneaky little mammals that will survive when nature decides to de-dinosaur the planet. I can't take credit for the term. I believe the first citation I can place for it is Robert Heinlein.

Evolution is a bitch. At any time you can be de-selected for evolution. Being prepared helps, but sometimes it's just bad luck and when your number's up, your number's up. I'd say the biggest threat the prepared citizen faces is the "have nots" who realize when the SHTF you are a "have".

M-Rex
December 15, 2005, 09:36 PM
No, no, no, you got it all wrong. We're not the dinosaurs. We're the sneaky little mammals that will survive when nature decides to de-dinosaur the planet. I can't take credit for the term. I believe the first citation I can place for it is Robert Heinlein.

Evolution is a bitch. At any time you can be de-selected for evolution. Being prepared helps, but sometimes it's just bad luck and when your number's up, your number's up. I'd say the biggest threat the prepared citizen faces is the "have nots" who realize when the SHTF you are a "have".

Much wisdom in that statement. +10

Twycross
December 15, 2005, 09:51 PM
Unpopular, perhaps, but it never was a popularity contest.

Obsolete?

Never. The world will always have a place for people who can make their own way, even though we be surrounded by fools and outnumbered thousands to one.
+1. I may get funny looks for carrying everything imaginable around in the back of my rig, but someday, the jumper cables or crowbar or gallon of oil or MREs will come in handy. Contrast that with what I see in the Average Joe's car. My folks venture out equipped with... a box of Kleenex. Thats it.

No, were not dinosaurs. We're just the endangered species that will never go extinct.

TallPine
December 16, 2005, 12:25 AM
That's one reason that we drive full size pickups and Suburbans - need the big rig to haul all of the emergency gear around and still have a little bit of room left :p

That, and they are old, simple, paid for, rarely break down, and when they do they are cheap to fix. There are still things more expensive than gas.

thatguy
December 16, 2005, 07:52 AM
Look what happened with Katrina. Most people ignored warnings and sat on their asses waiting to die in a hurricane. The survivors then sat on their asses waiting to be resuced. The rescuees then complained long and loud about how the authorities didn't do enough to protect them before the disaster or help them afterwards. Now they demand piles of money from everyone else to rebuild their homes and support them while waiting to move back in.

Meanwhile, those didn't want help were forcibly disarmed by police or military and removed against their will from their homes.

Have we become a dependent, socialist state? Yes. Is self-reliance discouraged and even punished by the government? Yes. Have we, as a nation, become subservient peasants? Yes. Do people in general look out for their own well-being? No.

America has become a welfare state. The central authority wields ever increasing power over every aspect of our lives and Maoist... er, I mean most... people want it this way. Very depressing.

Manedwolf
December 16, 2005, 10:56 AM
No, no, no, you got it all wrong. We're not the dinosaurs. We're the sneaky little mammals that will survive when nature decides to de-dinosaur the planet. I can't take credit for the term. I believe the first citation I can place for it is Robert Heinlein.

Evolution is a bitch. At any time you can be de-selected for evolution. Being prepared helps, but sometimes it's just bad luck and when your number's up, your number's up. I'd say the biggest threat the prepared citizen faces is the "have nots" who realize when the SHTF you are a "have".

The whole point of evolution and natural selection is that nature is constantly TRYING to kill you. From natural diasters to diseases...

And while you can't do much about the genetic side of things, evolution DOES strongly favor those who possess the intelligence and common sense to figure out their own means of survival when nature takes a swing at them. :D

Manedwolf
December 16, 2005, 10:58 AM
That's one reason that we drive full size pickups and Suburbans - need the big rig to haul all of the emergency gear around and still have a little bit of room left :p

That, and they are old, simple, paid for, rarely break down, and when they do they are cheap to fix. There are still things more expensive than gas.

Or you could spring for something new like a Honda Ridgeline. That, in ten years, will likely need...oil changes, and that's about it. See how long all their other cars last.

Manedwolf
December 16, 2005, 11:02 AM
He's got an American bulldog puppy as a pet, drives a 4 wheel drive SUV (Inherited from Mom.), but wants a truck. He's also very active in the college republicans there on campus.


I agree with all but those two statements. One, because most SUVs are topheavy middle-eastern-oil-guzzlers that would crack an axle if they ever went offroad, just glorified mom-mallmobiles, and if you wanted something REALLY indestructible for a SHTF situation, you'd go for a vintage Land Rover, I think.

And two, I saw an interview with a bunch of College Republicans who were busy figuring out ways to "increase military recruitment". When asked why they didn't enlist, themselves, there were a flurry of excuses, and one actually got angry and bellowed that he had just gotten into the best business school in the country and wasn't about to miss that. :cuss:

Atticus
December 16, 2005, 04:03 PM
Are we dinosaurs?

I think just the opposite is true. Dinosaurs were the Kings of their time and life was fairly easy for them. They couldn't adapt to change and were wiped out when the world changed around them. I think that better describes everyone else. We're more like cockroaches.
I don't think we are typical, but I think there are more people like us than you would think. There wouldn't be a multi-billion dollar market for guns, ammo generators, MRE's, emergency medical kits, wood stoves, etc., etc., etc., if there wasn't. I'm pretty prepared, but I know many people who are far more prepared than I. I just finally bought a stainless steel coffee pot for the next power outage - and the world is a much safer place because of that. I will not endure the apocolypse without a cup of French roast.

TallPine
December 16, 2005, 06:22 PM
if you wanted something REALLY indestructible for a SHTF situation, you'd go for a vintage Land Rover, I think
Until you need parts for it ...:p But nothing beats a Land Rover for stopping a charging rhinoceros :D

FYI, the MT DNRC is buying up 1973-1987 vintage Chevy & GMC 4wd pickups, rebuilding them from the frame up, and using them for wildland fire attack trucks. If that isn't rough duty with heavy loads, I don't know what is ;)

Or you could spring for something new like a Honda Ridgeline.
Um, why ....:confused: What are they, about $30K or $40K....?

What I have costs me nothing but gas, oil, and insurance.

I wouldn't give $0.02 for the new pickups and suburbans with the independent front suspensions.

Chrontius
December 16, 2005, 06:23 PM
We've stored enough anti-biotics, pain killers, etc. for an army. All a doc will do is hit you for an office visit and give you an RX.

Take Care
Painkillers are fine, but antibiotics are more tricky than most'd think. Not all antibiotics are suitable for all germs, and none of 'em will do you any good if you've got a viral infection. Basic microbiology (lol, there's a contradiction) is a real eye-opener. Add to that the expiration dates on medications which are usually understated, and things get trickier.

TV is dying, thank what ever deity you want, bloggers replace talking heads, hollywood is lame, indie films rock and radio is ball less, get some indie tunes or videos on the internet. I sing the body electric, I sing the independance dance. Not one to tell me who to vote for, I now have more than three. Not one to tell me who to listen to, I have a dozen you see. No one to tell me who to read I read a dozen at once. Serial consumption of video, text and whine. I am the new generation. This is my time.
<voice="Billy Idol">Welcome to the future, Cyberpunk.</voice>

:D

Old Dog
December 16, 2005, 07:57 PM
While we're all patting ourselves on the back here for being such self-reliant, independent thinking rugged individualists ... I think it's important to keep in mind just how this country got to this point.

It's not due solely to the shift in political thinking, the growth of the welfare state or anything like that ... I see only a couple big reasons for why so many people are the way they are these days ... For one, some people can go their entire lives and the worst disaster that might ever befall them is having their car not start up one morning when they're trying to get off for work ... so they call the auto club, have it towed and take a taxi to work ... or their toilet overflows and they have no idea how to use a plunger ... so they call a 24-hour plumber ...

Let's put things into perspective here. The stuff we use now, for the most part, works wonderfully. Cars don't typically break down often the way they used to ... Boys don't grow up having to know how to fix things, such as cars, appliances, or even have to do basic carpentry around the house anymore ... Our society is primarily urban, which means there's a huge safety net in most areas. What's the worst thing that can happen to most of us now? We can lose power for a few hours? People don't have to know how to do anything for themselves now.

Another thing ... lots of single-parent households now or dual-working couples ... Americans work longer hours with less free time ... parents typically don't spend anywhere near as much time with their children as in years past. Fathers (if the family has one in the home) don't spent the countless hours teaching their sons how to use tools, replace an alternator, hell, even change a tire ...

Is self-reliance discouraged and even punished by the government? Yes. I don't buy that. Self-reliance has simply become irrelevant to most people, that's all, because they don't need to be self-reliant. Our technology has evolved to the point where we are merely consumers, not doers.

Have we, as a nation, become subservient peasants? Yes. No, we haven't, although there are those pockets (see New Orleans, circa Sep. 2005, or most any big city now).

Do people in general look out for their own well-being? No.Yes they, do, but only insofar as income and pursuing their materialistic desires.

Cosmoline
December 16, 2005, 08:17 PM
I'll be the contrarian here and point out that folks like us have been frowned upon a long time now. The forces pushing to "civilize" the nation and bring all free men under the yolk have been at it for well over 150 years. You can find the same old battle in the range wars of the 1880's or the Prohibition movement of the early 20th cnt. Remember these fights go back a long, long ways. The CCW movement is really just the counterpunch to the anti-CCW movement started under Jim Crow in the south and continued by blue hairs in the north and west. I've read tracts advocating anti-concealed carry laws from Texas that discuss how the state must move away from its wild west image, leave its free days behind and become civilized and pacified. Millions of natives--entire language groups--were slaughtered over the years in the name of stamping out the wild man.

Those same iron boots are still in power, and still would love to stamp what's left of liberty out. The battle will never be over. It's the fight between the forces that want to bring men to heel and the men who want to be free.

Nematocyst
December 16, 2005, 10:35 PM
Old Dog & Cosmo, +1.

Nice reading for a friday night.

Nem

Nematocyst
December 16, 2005, 11:18 PM
And while you can't do much about the genetic side of things, evolution DOES strongly favor those who possess the intelligence and common sense to figure out their own means of survival when nature takes a swing at them. :D Ooh, missed this little pearl of truth earlier.

+1

Nem

Zundfolge
December 17, 2005, 01:03 AM
Has the rest of the world decided that it would rather live under the control of others instead of living free.
Most people believe if they eat regular, can buy a few toys, can have sex with what/whomever they want and don't have to work too hard that they are free.

Bread and Circuses have been replaced with Microwavable food and TV.

1911 guy
December 17, 2005, 07:13 AM
We represent the individuality and personal freedom of the last generation of Americans. We represent the free thinkin and personal responsibility embodied in the writings of the Founding Fathers. We represent the phrase made famous by Benjamin Franklin, "God helps those who help themselves". We represent the thinking and mindset that forced the signing of the Magna Carta and created a middle class for the first time in history. We represent a bunch of farmers and shopkeepers who told a king to get $%#@&* and put the hurt on the largest army in the world. We represent all good things in the world, because we have the ability to defend all good things. We are the epitome of a members sig line "Na bona, Na croin". That's an old gaelic phrase. NO COLLAR, NO CROWN!

Mongo the Mutterer
December 17, 2005, 09:20 AM
Most people believe if they eat regular, can buy a few toys, can have sex with what/whomever they want and don't have to work too hard that they are free.

Bread and Circuses have been replaced with Microwavable food and TV.True, but I have reached the point where I have total indifference to what they do. Bill Whittle at www.ejectejecteject.com/ (http://www.ejectejecteject.com/) has his latest essay called "Tribes" out. Good reading, and he points out that there are three groups in our society:

Sheep -- the majority, who want to be in their "comfort zone" (my words) and don't want to recognize that there are ...

Wolves -- who prey almost at will upon the sheep, and are totally ruthless and evil. They prey "almost" at will because of ...

Sheepdogs -- who, while protecting themselves, protect the sheep. Some sheepdogs (military, LEO's...) are tasked with protection. Others are plain ole sheepdogs who tend to themselves and their families, but who may protect the stray sheep who don't belong to them when a wolf is around.

The sheep know the sheepdogs are around, but don't like them much because their presence reminds them that there are wolves. Also, now and again the sheepdogs show their teeth, which disturbs the sheep (or my preferred term, sheeple).

The above groups won't change, ever. I recognize this, and I am content to continue on my quest to be a sheepdog. :)

If you enjoyed reading about "Burn The Land And Boil The Sea You Can't Take The Sky From Me...Are We Dinosaurs??" here in TheHighRoad.org archive, you'll LOVE our community. Come join TheHighRoad.org today for the full version!